Forum Settings
       
This Forum is Read Only

Experience Gained From Guildleve (And Quests/Missions,Too!)Follow

#1 Jan 18 2010 at 10:38 AM Rating: Default
**
555 posts
Alright, I had a little time to try and think of this last night, but it is leaving me a bit confused. I've been working a lot lately so maybe someone here has pieced it together better than I have had time to. Here it goes:

Since FFXIV is being said NOT to be on an actual "Level" system, then how will the Experience earned from Missions, Quests, and Guildleves be properly distributed if we are leveling our Weapons instead of "ourselves"? Example, I'm a Gladiator looking to Level my Sword and Shield, so I do a couple of Guildleves/Missions/Quests for the day, does that Experience go into my weapon that I used on that Mission/Quest/Guildleve, or what? This has been confusing to me since day one, so I hope we can have an educated discussion and get to the bottom of this.

Thanks guys, and I hope you understand what I'm trying to get at here.

Basically, the Experience earned from Quests/Missions/Guildleves will be used toward Leveling up...what?

Edited, Jan 18th 2010 11:48am by Skeptic
____________________________
Retired 75PLD
Hades Server
Obsidian Linkshell

WoW Fails.


#2 Jan 18 2010 at 10:45 AM Rating: Default
**
810 posts
This thread will be fun to come back to after we actually know how the system works to see how accurate or inaccurate our guesses are.
____________________________
"It's a magical world, Hobbes ol' buddy. Lets go exploring."
-Calvin
63BRD/59WHM/31BLM/25SMN/20PUP/16BST/7THF/6MNK/2WAR

Just for clarification, I bot, sell gil, buy gil, MPK, party naked through the dunes, power level, play as a Ranger, quit when they nerf it and complain, play as a Beastmaster, quit when then nerf it and complain, make posts for and against RMT, monopolize NMs, create elitist groups, run casinos, steal gil, hack accounts, and stare at you awkwardly with my left eye.
#3Skeptic, Posted: Jan 18 2010 at 10:46 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yea, well, don't try to kill the Thread like an idiot, kthx. I was just trying to see if anyone had any ideas of how it would work, so refrain from the pointless posts for now.
#4 Jan 18 2010 at 10:48 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
**
532 posts
Quote:
Yea, well, don't try to kill the Thread like an idiot, kthx. I was just trying to see if anyone had any ideas of how it would work, so refrain from the pointless posts for now.


Quote:
an idiot, kthx, so refrain from the pointless posts for now.


Quote:
refrain from the pointless posts
____________________________
FFXIV: Goblin - Flink Rivers WAR/SCH/MNK (probably)

FFXI: Asura - Wades 99BST | 99DNC | 99DRG | 99SMN | 99BLU
************RETIRED************
Pandemonium - Wadus - 75THF | Bonecraft 100
************RETIRED************
#5 Jan 18 2010 at 10:50 AM Rating: Default
**
555 posts
Woot! More pointless-ness.

Let's try again:

Alright, I had a little time to try and think of this last night, but it is leaving me a bit confused. I've been working a lot lately so maybe someone here has pieced it together better than I have had time to. Here it goes:

Since FFXIV is being said NOT to be on an actual "Level" system, then how will the Experience earned from Missions, Quests, and Guildleves be properly distributed if we are leveling our Weapons instead of "ourselves"? Example, I'm a Gladiator looking to Level my Sword and Shield, so I do a couple of Guildleves/Missions/Quests for the day, does that Experience go into my weapon that I used on that Mission/Quest/Guildleve, or what? This has been confusing to me since day one, so I hope we can have an educated discussion and get to the bottom of this.

Thanks guys, and I hope you understand what I'm trying to get at here.

Basically, the Experience earned from Quests/Missions/Guildleves will be used toward Leveling up...what?



Edited, Jan 18th 2010 11:59am by Skeptic
____________________________
Retired 75PLD
Hades Server
Obsidian Linkshell

WoW Fails.


#7 Jan 18 2010 at 11:15 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
630 posts
Most likely the experience you gain will be from using your items in the leve more than anything else. I see it the more you use your shield to anticipate and block, the better you become at it. The more you use your sword to parry the better you become at it. In essence you are leveling your skills by going and using them in the field. Leve's will probably give other rewards, maybe new skills for your weapons or shields.
#8 Jan 18 2010 at 11:18 AM Rating: Decent
**
810 posts
I bet it will involve some kind of "leveling" system in which you go up in "levels" as you gain something called "experience points."

That or some bastardization of that form.
____________________________
"It's a magical world, Hobbes ol' buddy. Lets go exploring."
-Calvin
63BRD/59WHM/31BLM/25SMN/20PUP/16BST/7THF/6MNK/2WAR

Just for clarification, I bot, sell gil, buy gil, MPK, party naked through the dunes, power level, play as a Ranger, quit when they nerf it and complain, play as a Beastmaster, quit when then nerf it and complain, make posts for and against RMT, monopolize NMs, create elitist groups, run casinos, steal gil, hack accounts, and stare at you awkwardly with my left eye.
#9Skeptic, Posted: Jan 18 2010 at 11:26 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) That's kind of what I assumed. But then again, why should the Weapon you are NOT using take a Penalty?
#10 Jan 18 2010 at 11:31 AM Rating: Default
Scholar
**
630 posts
Skeptic wrote:
That's kind of what I assumed. But then again, why should the Weapon you are NOT using take a Penalty?


I don't think that will be the case? If you put away your staff and take out the sword/shield, your staff skill wont go down, it just won't be gaining anymore skill.
#11 Jan 18 2010 at 11:39 AM Rating: Default
**
555 posts
Yes, I know that. So basically what you are saying is that if I use Sword/Shield for X Quest, then Sword/Shield will gain Experience. Similar to if I did a Quest as PLD, then my PLD job would get the Experience. That's how I had it mapped out in my head all along. I will be back around at 8pm after work to discuss this more. Thanks for the educated replies so far guys.
____________________________
Retired 75PLD
Hades Server
Obsidian Linkshell

WoW Fails.


#12 Jan 18 2010 at 12:20 PM Rating: Good
**
736 posts
There's a couple different skill-based systems.

It can be a use-based system, like Ultima Online, where the more you use a skill the stronger it becomes.
It can be a skill-points system, like Asheron's Call, where you earned "Skill Points" that can be allocated to whatever skill you want.
It can a skill-points system with some constraints, like Ryzom, where you can earn points in categories and spend your points on the skills within that category however you want.
It can be a Passive-skill-levelling system, like EvE Online, where you can only train one skill at a time, and this progress occurs whether your online or not.
It can be a skill-tree, like WoW or FFX's SphereGrid, where you earn skillpoints and spend them on skills that are set-up as a series of branching nodes that require you to follow a path of skills to obtain the ones you want.

You can mix and match, your abilities can use one way, your stats another, your crafts another still.
The whole idea is amazingly open-ended, and I wouldn't be surprised if XIV managed to come up with something else completely original.


Edited, Jan 18th 2010 1:35pm by Zemzelette
#13 Jan 18 2010 at 12:36 PM Rating: Good
***
2,890 posts
I say the system will be like this

Each class has its own list of skills with a max amount of skill points you can sink into the class.
Every time you do a quest or are rewarded in some way you earn skill points that you can then sink into one of the skills in your class however you want.

I imagine that it will be allot like this. No experience points, just skilling up all the time.

Edited, Jan 18th 2010 1:45pm by thorazinekizzez
#14 Jan 18 2010 at 12:43 PM Rating: Good
***
1,159 posts
I imagine it like FFT where you level skills/spells associated with a weapon (ex. 200 Action Points for Curaga using a Pure staff or 100 AP for Fire using a Rod). Only, instead of leveling your character as well as it is in FFT you would instead level your weapon proficiency each time you used it or an ability/spell.
#15 Jan 18 2010 at 1:09 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
33 posts
My only concern about this system is that it won't leave any clear way to say how far you are through the game. In most MMOs, you can easily just say, "I'm level 50" and it's quite obvious that you're farther ahead than a level 3 character. I'm afraid it's going to be "well I have 24 skills and I've masted 10 of them and I'm using this weapon..." and finding balanced parties will be impossible.

But this seems like a pretty easy problem to solve, so I suspect Squenix will fix it.
#16 Jan 18 2010 at 1:20 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
**
630 posts
kateko wrote:
My only concern about this system is that it won't leave any clear way to say how far you are through the game. In most MMOs, you can easily just say, "I'm level 50" and it's quite obvious that you're farther ahead than a level 3 character. I'm afraid it's going to be "well I have 24 skills and I've masted 10 of them and I'm using this weapon..." and finding balanced parties will be impossible.

But this seems like a pretty easy problem to solve, so I suspect Squenix will fix it.


Maybe a combination of gear/skill points to determine where you are....although that could lead to elitism real quickly.

Or a novel idea, why don't we base it on where we are in the game?? I'm almost thinking SE has made it where it won't really matter what level you are, but more where you are in the line of quests. If you are at a certain point in the leves it means you have the required minimum. You will be grouping with people who are at the same stage as you.
#18 Jan 18 2010 at 2:00 PM Rating: Good
***
1,159 posts
kateko wrote:
My only concern about this system is that it won't leave any clear way to say how far you are through the game. In most MMOs, you can easily just say, "I'm level 50" and it's quite obvious that you're farther ahead than a level 3 character. I'm afraid it's going to be "well I have 24 skills and I've masted 10 of them and I'm using this weapon..." and finding balanced parties will be impossible.

But this seems like a pretty easy problem to solve, so I suspect Squenix will fix it.


They could have linkable profiles that way you can just put up your profile in the LFG channel or whatever channel will be used for group leaders to easily review what skills you have available and at what proficiency.

Or perhaps create an arbitrary ranking system that classifies you based on your skills. Say your a whm (for lack of a better term) with cure I and a handful of other lowbie spells you might be called "acolyte rank 1" or maybe you have cure IV and a bunch of high level spells you might be called "high priest rank 4". Sounds a lot like your job and level but I'm sure it can be tweaked to be less obvious. They could use military names and ranks.
#19 Jan 18 2010 at 2:36 PM Rating: Decent
Avatar
***
3,112 posts
Everything will be like working off a latent... think about it ^^
get a new sword, kill 200 enemies with it equiped. Learn a new skill, gain points in dex/str or something.

That is my guess how it will work. Guildleaves will just allow you to work off the points a little faster.

Honestly though, I have no clue. I hope it is similar to FF9 crossed with FF7, but for all we know it could be something completely ground breaking. As long as it isn't as micro-managed as 12: "Sorry sir, that leather bandana is far to tricky for you to wear... come back after you have trained to wear this bandana. Oh, and don't even THINK about wearing this leather armor..."

For things like weapons it made a little sense (still a little iffy), but for simple armor?? Come on, if you have to lear how to put on a hat, you may as well just give up the whole adventuring thing right there.
____________________________
95THF, 95DRG, 90BRD, 94BLM, 95BLU, 90COR - Retired: Nov 2011
Someday soon my friends, this ride will come to and end, and we can't just get in line again.
#20 Jan 18 2010 at 2:41 PM Rating: Decent
**
736 posts
Quote:
My only concern about this system is that it won't leave any clear way to say how far you are through the game. In most MMOs, you can easily just say, "I'm level 50" and it's quite obvious that you're farther ahead than a level 3 character. I'm afraid it's going to be "well I have 24 skills and I've masted 10 of them and I'm using this weapon..." and finding balanced parties will be impossible.

But this seems like a pretty easy problem to solve, so I suspect Squenix will fix it.


Depending on how they manage the guildleves, it could be non-issue.
You could only be eligible to do the higher "level" guildleves after completing some lower "level" ones. That way anyone who has access to the leve is automatically qualified enough to complete it.
Quote:


For things like weapons it made a little sense (still a little iffy), but for simple armor?? Come on, if you have to lear how to put on a hat, you may as well just give up the whole adventuring thing right there.


I guess when you try change your combat system every time you make a game, they can't all be winners.


Edited, Jan 18th 2010 4:02pm by Zemzelette
#21 Jan 18 2010 at 2:56 PM Rating: Decent
There really isn't enough info to even base a guess on for me, but i'll try. I'm not entirely sure there will be any extra "xp" type reward for anything. I imagine guildleaves and such will probably give item/gear/gil rewards. I imagine the points for skilling up will be much like FFXI. Your weapons skilled up as you used them. So in doing quests, you will kill more, and therefore will skill up more. It's all just a guess though.
#22 Jan 18 2010 at 4:53 PM Rating: Good
*
109 posts
Seems a skill system is a more organic approach to a reality that existed in FFXI. It wasn't as obvious before level sync, but your skill in a weapon or magic type (with some exceptions) had a very large bearing on your effectiveness against a foe. If your skill was lacking, even if you had a significant level advantage over a mob, then your capability against your enemies suffered. Vice versa, if you had a significant skill advantage, then it was all too easy.

With an advancement system that's tied to a person's skill in a weapon (or other key aspect of a role), they take out the middleman of experience points and weapon-independent levels for a more basic approach. Doing so simplifies something for people who may not always keep up with information put out by the hardcore community members. No one will have to be told that (using FFXI as an example) you should be using a Greataxe/Axe as a Warrior (I don't care if you want to be a paladin later, stop using a goddamned sword) because if you put on a weapon you become the role assigned to it.

Experience points in FFXI are the determinants of your base stats and abilities, but those only go so far in determining your overall effectiveness. Seems what they intend to do is force your overall effectiveness to improve as you advance, rather than diversify the areas of progress and risk leaving an aspect of your character behind.
____________________________

Kashius wrote:
Things WoW did not invent:
...
- Fun
#23 Jan 18 2010 at 5:03 PM Rating: Default
Scholar
**
350 posts
It's a simple as guildleves will give you no skill points, but they give you gil, Armor/Weapons, spells, unlock skills, unlock areas, skill break(if they have caps), and give access to things like Chocobos or Airships or teleports.

We did quests and missions in FFXI even though we got such a minuscule amount of experience from them. They might as well of not given any experience. So I figure FFXIV is just not going to give any skill points for doing them, and it'll just reward the player in other ways. Since you get skill ups from fighting anyway, you might as well do a guildlevel to get whatever extra bonus it gives at the same time.

Edited, Jan 18th 2010 3:48pm by Cyiode
#24 Jan 18 2010 at 6:01 PM Rating: Decent
Nobody said anything about your weapons gaining xp o.O Or leveling up, for that matter. The game would be more than a little lame if you were basically carrying around different iterations of the same weapon you started with.

Weapon types I could understand. But really, if you leveled your Onion Sword to 15, why would you switch to a Bee Spatha that sends you back to level 1...unless...

You're not leveling weapons, but leveling SKILLS with weapons...zomg...what a stretch...

If I go into the kitchen and make a tasty sammich, I don't learn anything about carpentry in the process (unless my roommate made the bread, in which case it might be similar to cutting through a 2x4, but I digress).

C'mon guys...apply some logic and reason to this. The farther afield you reach to hypothesize and theorize and fantasize about all this stuff, the more likely you are to put forward stupid ideas.

Like the OP. Who then got butthurt. And instead of being intelligent, he just reposts his original post. More stupid.

Yup. the OP must just be all around stupid. And butthurt. A dangerous combination.

HIDE THE CHILDREN!!

#25 Jan 18 2010 at 6:07 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
630 posts
AureliusSir the Irrelevant wrote:
Nobody said anything about your weapons gaining xp o.O Or leveling up, for that matter. The game would be more than a little lame if you were basically carrying around different iterations of the same weapon you started with.

Weapon types I could understand. But really, if you leveled your Onion Sword to 15, why would you switch to a Bee Spatha that sends you back to level 1...unless...

You're not leveling weapons, but leveling SKILLS with weapons...zomg...what a stretch...

If I go into the kitchen and make a tasty sammich, I don't learn anything about carpentry in the process (unless my roommate made the bread, in which case it might be similar to cutting through a 2x4, but I digress).

C'mon guys...apply some logic and reason to this. The farther afield you reach to hypothesize and theorize and fantasize about all this stuff, the more likely you are to put forward stupid ideas.

Like the OP. Who then got butthurt. And instead of being intelligent, he just reposts his original post. More stupid.

Yup. the OP must just be all around stupid. And butthurt. A dangerous combination.

HIDE THE CHILDREN!!




Lets take something out of context and then use it to put down another user!


Honestly i'll go back to kindergarten for you on this one:

If you dont have anything nice to say don't say it at all.
#26 Jan 18 2010 at 9:42 PM Rating: Good
burtonsnow wrote:
Lets take something out of context and then use it to put down another user!


Honestly i'll go back to kindergarten for you on this one:

If you dont have anything nice to say don't say it at all.


I can understand discussion around things SE has said. And even though I don't personally find them interesting, I can understand discussions around things that haven't been said that people are curious about and just want to toss ideas around. But when there's a thread started that pretty much ignores what SE has said, and the OP of that thread gets all twisted when it's pointed out to them that they're on the wrong track...no matter what means are used to point it out...and their response is to summarily dismiss that little tidbit of information and cut and paste their original post, I have a little fun with it.

Sue me.

Edited, Jan 18th 2010 7:50pm by AureliusSir
#27 Jan 18 2010 at 11:31 PM Rating: Default
**
555 posts
He knows everything, he works for SE.
____________________________
Retired 75PLD
Hades Server
Obsidian Linkshell

WoW Fails.


This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 14 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (14)