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clarification please (party size)Follow

#1 Jan 25 2010 at 11:51 PM Rating: Good
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I don't want to spread stupidity so I'm asking for a clarification before I even discuss it.

Nothing has been said about party size yet, correct?

Two friends IRL have told me it is set at 4, and I'm like 90% sure that hasn't been discussed anywhere. I could be absolutely wrong, and I'll accept it if I am.... but.... hehe

To anyone who replies, thank you.

Edited, Jan 26th 2010 12:51am by bleystrife
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#2 Jan 25 2010 at 11:59 PM Rating: Good
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Square Enix hasn't confirmed anything about party sizes or the maximum amount of players that will be able to group up together.

Edited, Jan 26th 2010 1:01am by KeeperOfTheStaff
#3 Jan 26 2010 at 12:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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Party size has not been discussed in any interviews/press releases.
Your friends either have inside info ( highly unlikely ) or are taking speculation as fact.
#4 Jan 26 2010 at 12:02 AM Rating: Good
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They have not said, and probably wont for a while. For some reason though, I do think that they mentioned something about it in a Q&A interview somewhere. I think I remember something along the lines of them saying they were thinking of making them smaller (like 4 or 5). Maybe somebody can find that interview somewhere, unless I'm dreaming it.

They definitely never confirmed anything however
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#5 Jan 26 2010 at 12:07 AM Rating: Good
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Thank you that's what I thought, and wanted to be sure before I said anything myself on the issue. I rarely like talking about what I don't know.
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#6 Jan 26 2010 at 12:11 AM Rating: Good
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One of the interviews said that they were planning on making smaller parties more viable.(See the changes to signets and exp boosts for smaller parties in FFXI) From my understanding, they want to keep the game somewhat group oriented, but from their FFXI experiences finding 6 people tends to be difficult to manage at the low points in the night and such.
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#7 Jan 26 2010 at 12:12 AM Rating: Good
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the minimum is 7,
1 man and 6 packs of beers

but some girls in the party is highly preferred
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#8 Jan 26 2010 at 12:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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http://www.eorzeapedia.com/2009/09/28/game-watch-interviews-tanaka-and-komoto-at-tgs/
Quote:
There is still no official decision on the maximum number of players or enemies that can be in one party. However, they don’t want to make set patterns with the number of people in a party like with what happened in FFXI. Rather than saying that a party can have a maximum of six people, they want the system to be flexible enough that if you have two people, that’s ok, and if you have three, that’s ok too. That said, there won’t be any bonuses for having a certain number of players in your party as well. For example, sometimes you could get an exp bonus in FFXI depending on the number of people in your party and other factors. FFXIV is more about the difference in the level between you and what you are fighting rather than the difference in levels amongst players.

There might be another interview with something about party size but that's all i found with a quick google search.
#9 Jan 26 2010 at 3:12 AM Rating: Decent
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KeeperOfTheStaff wrote:
http://www.eorzeapedia.com/2009/09/28/game-watch-interviews-tanaka-and-komoto-at-tgs/
Quote:
There is still no official decision on the maximum number of players or enemies that can be in one party. However, they don’t want to make set patterns with the number of people in a party like with what happened in FFXI. Rather than saying that a party can have a maximum of six people, they want the system to be flexible enough that if you have two people, that’s ok, and if you have three, that’s ok too. That said, there won’t be any bonuses for having a certain number of players in your party as well. For example, sometimes you could get an exp bonus in FFXI depending on the number of people in your party and other factors. FFXIV is more about the difference in the level between you and what you are fighting rather than the difference in levels amongst players.

There might be another interview with something about party size but that's all i found with a quick google search.


This is what I read before as well.
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#10 Jan 26 2010 at 3:16 AM Rating: Good
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Details such as this are very limited, as we get further into the year we'll probably get to hear more. But the max party size in FFXI was six, Im hoping they allow us more this time around. Have up to ten people, but able to operate with less than that.
#11 Jan 26 2010 at 3:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Nothing is official yet, however it's logical that casual content will use less members. SE has confirmed this in a few interviews. Players with limited time often have trouble forming parties due to the 6-man groupings and cookie cutter setups. I'd venture to guess 3-man parties like Assaults for casual play. As for the hardcore/endgame crowd, I'd wager the party size is very similar to FFXI's grouping size.

The bottom line is the size of parties will be adjustable depending on the situation. I believe we'll see more duoing/trioing and that Guildeves will benefit that system of play. Nobody can say for sure the exact number of party members at your disposal, but it's safe to say the casual aspect will be less than 6.
#12 Jan 26 2010 at 8:01 AM Rating: Good
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I personally don't care about the maximum number of people. I care about smaller groups more. I really hope 2-4 player groups can still get good exp on a consistent basis.

In XI, people just partied in a group of 6 mainly because 1. it's the max in a single party and 2. it's difficult to get more people.

Contrary to popular belief, having more than 6 people in an exp group doesn't necessarily kill your exp. There have been a few times I exped with a group of 8 people (a small alliance). With proper teamwork and timing, we were getting 6k/hr exp, and this was in the 50s in Quicksand Caves, not at level 70+.

A small alliance works just as well as one full party, provided you know what you're doing.

So like I said, I don't really care about the max number of people in a party. I care more about the minimum number of players to get good exp.

Edited, Jan 26th 2010 8:02am by Threx
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#13 Jan 26 2010 at 8:25 AM Rating: Decent
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I'd vote for 3 person parties for the average. Obvously some things you might need to team up for more but for the xp grind 3 people should be the goal.

I've been playing a bit of MW2 when I can connect without timing out and have noticed the same issue there with building parties. The communication simply breaks down way to much after the third person. Three people are easy enough to kick in the *** to be ready, but add more and then you have a lull when adding the fourth, fifth, sixth person, which prompts one to go afk for a minute while waiting, then they get back but by then someone else needs to take a minute, and it never stops...

Three people parties for the grinds please!
#14 Jan 26 2010 at 9:46 AM Rating: Good
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I guess I'd vote for 3 as well. As long as you have the basics (healer, damage, and tank) i think things should be able to flow nicely.
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#15 Jan 26 2010 at 11:00 AM Rating: Good
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I vote for 4, because the number of DD is always ridiculously high compared to the number of healers/tanks.


Quote:
Contrary to popular belief, having more than 6 people in an exp group doesn't necessarily kill your exp.
It dramatically lowers in though, if you assume each additional individual increases kill speed an set amount:

 
#people=kill rate     exp/person      exp/person/time 
1                     1.0             1.0 
2                     .6              1.2 
3                     .45             1.35 
4                     .4              1.6 
5                     .37             1.85 
6                     .35             2.1 
7                     .257            1.8 
8                     .225            1.8 
9                     .2              1.8 
10                    .18             1.8 


keeping 6 people instead of 8 nets you an extra 17% "free" exp (note: slightly better, since the proportion of time waiting vs time fighting is higher for larger groups). Hopefully, in FFXIV they just make it a flat rate (like 7+ members is currently).

Edited, Jan 26th 2010 12:10pm by shintasama
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#16 Jan 26 2010 at 11:09 AM Rating: Decent
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party size will be smaller, but keep in mind, we will be able to switch classes on the fly, although they didnt confirm or reveal how it's going to work
if we can switch classes while nobody in the party is engaged in a battle, we could switch to healer or enfeebling classes between battles, so we might be able to keep partying efficently with a smaller number of ppl
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#17 Jan 26 2010 at 12:12 PM Rating: Good
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I would very much like to see 3 or 4 man party sizes that work just as well as a larger party. It would be so much easier to group together, less hassle and less time involved.

Also, it just seems so much more fun when there are less people, more "intimate" I guess you could say, but not in the creepy kind of way. It just seems more likely to be traveling with one or two close friends.
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#18 Jan 26 2010 at 1:04 PM Rating: Decent
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If you guys happen to still play FFXI, you'll see that there is a lot of low-man parties using FoV. Granted grouping with 6 people in XI is still the best way to go, however I think the norm of FFXIV's groups will be 2~3 person parties. FoV= Guildeves only more customized. IMO, the only real question that needs answering is how many people you'll have for endgame Guildeve quests. It's going to be instanced so I wonder what the cap is in FFXIV. In FFXI, the cap varied depending on the event. 3~6~18~36~64(I think 64 is the cap for city dynamis.) Again, we don't know for sure, but I think it's safe to say duos and trios will be the norm in FFXIV. By norm, I mean how we associate 6 with normal in FFXI.
#19 Jan 26 2010 at 1:13 PM Rating: Good
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Party size doesn't matter as much as penalties. I just hope they won't have penalties because it sucked back in 2003 when you had 8 people seeking in kazham, but making an 8 man party would be detrimental to the players so it was always better to have 2 people sit 4 hours doing nothing while 6 partied.
#20 Jan 26 2010 at 1:49 PM Rating: Decent
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shintasama wrote:

Quote:
Contrary to popular belief, having more than 6 people in an exp group doesn't necessarily kill your exp.
It dramatically lowers in though, if you assume each additional individual increases kill speed an set amount:

 
#people=kill rate     exp/person      exp/person/time 
1                     1.0             1.0 
2                     .6              1.2 
3                     .45             1.35 
4                     .4              1.6 
5                     .37             1.85 
6                     .35             2.1 
7                     .257            1.8 
8                     .225            1.8 
9                     .2              1.8 
10                    .18             1.8 


keeping 6 people instead of 8 nets you an extra 17% "free" exp (note: slightly better, since the proportion of time waiting vs time fighting is higher for larger groups). Hopefully, in FFXIV they just make it a flat rate (like 7+ members is currently).


I wouldn't consider 2.1 to 1.8 "dramatically" decrease in exp. And it's far from killing the exp, as I stated.

Also, your numbers, although accurate in calculation, can be flawed in reality. Not every job contributes damage equally against a mob. A party with 2 healers and 2 DDs would do more damage picking up 2 more DDs than if they were to pick up 2 more healers. So you can't say a party of 10 people dishes out exactly twice the damage as a party of 5 people. Therefore, in reality it isn't #people = kill rate.

And I believe this was the case during my "exp alliance" experiences. Main party usually was Whm Rdm Brd Nin and 2 DDs. The extra 2 players we picked up were DDs.
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#21 Jan 26 2010 at 2:37 PM Rating: Good
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or you could drop a healer?

The more people you have the more tp moves X is going to use in a shorter time period meaning more healing is needed, buffs don't work on all of alliance so you've got to spend more time rotating or get more support, otherwise your additional players are going to be putting out less and taking more, on top of running out of stuff to kill/wasting more time moving around. Given these issues on top of dramatically (17% lost for adding 1 person is a huge detriment, I don't know what you're talking about) decreased exp/player compared to a 6 person party, it's pretty obvious why everyone uses the "set" 6 person exp group.

It's a silly argument anyways, the point is that I hope they don't include this type of uneveny scaled exp adjustment in FFXIV.
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#22 Jan 26 2010 at 2:55 PM Rating: Decent
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shintasama wrote:
The more people you have the more tp moves X is going to use in a shorter time period meaning more healing is needed, buffs don't work on all of alliance so you've got to spend more time rotating or get more support, otherwise your additional players are going to be putting out less and taking more, on top of running out of stuff to kill/wasting more time moving around.


That's why I specifically said:

Threx wrote:
With proper teamwork and timing


My alliance had no problem with healing. There was practically zero downtime. We camped where no one else did, or we chose a camp where we were the only ones there, so we never ran out of mobs. I was the Brd, and I had no problem slapping Madrigal and Minuet on the extra 2 DD.


shintasama wrote:
(17% lost for adding 1 person is a huge detriment, I don't know what you're talking about)


Not if that 1 person more than makes up for the 17% lost, which in my case I'm sure they did.


shintasama wrote:

It's a silly argument anyways, the point is that I hope they don't include this type of uneveny scaled exp adjustment in FFXIV.


For once I agree with you. xD
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#23 Jan 27 2010 at 7:50 AM Rating: Good
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All the pictures so far seem to suggest small groups of around 3 people, other than the boat fight which I assume is part of a quest. Small groups would be more congruent with their plans of quicker play.
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