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PvP in FFXIV - {Yes, Please}Follow

#102 Feb 02 2010 at 11:27 AM Rating: Decent
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The first statement is wrong, since you can run instances throughout the leveling process in WoW, and most have a great story behind them, and quests to lead you into them. Like FFXI, you need to consciously choose to do them, which I could see as being a problem for some people that lack the cognitive function to actually do something that requires effort when it's not thrust upon them.

wrong
in ffxi you must do mission 1 to 5 ( start from level 20-25 )
but in wow = huh? all normal quest = waste of time ( only for exp )
and if you want to enter to sky, sea
you need to to zilart and CoP ( great story)
but WoW as long as you have great armor you can go to anywhere
( and here i was thinking if I need to do some quest to go to outland or north (
and true to be told
most of time I find myself doing ignoring the quest log
( I enjoy ffxi c/s story more than wow quest log )

hmmmm
just 3 boss?
you know ....there alot of them
most north instances have boss like that ( most is not all )
#103Overlord Theophany, Posted: Feb 02 2010 at 11:48 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Your English sucks. Don't even bother trying to flame me when you're just re-stating what I said.
#104 Feb 02 2010 at 12:14 PM Rating: Good
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Congrats, you named (barely) three; I wouldn't consider Thaddius a tank and spank, nor Sapphiron. Patches is a multi-tank, BTW (Hateful Strike).


Well i'll do what you always do to everyone else... What you say doesn't matter, you can consider them anything else but i do not, you are wrong because i am correct... right? Other then trivial running around, which i clearly said i don't consider a challange therefore they fall under the main idea of tank and spank. Whether hateful is there or not, 1-2 tanks is still considered tank and spank, you do nothing else... I bet others agree with me, no challange except for the tank doing his job and everyone else doing max dps... No mobs, no pathing to follow like that poison guy forget his name... sounds basically like a tank and spank no matter what way you spin it.

You really get offended easily considering how many peoples threads you come into and stomp all over people. Seeing as you are now coming down to insulting english to avoid an argument you brought up :S... i dunno. An opinion is fine but you are borderline unnecessarily insulting to people because they don't agree with you.

I'll be the bigger man and end all your arguments with everyone though, you are right, we all agree with you. No longer do we need you to post in threads you already claimed "oh i'm done with this" too.
#105 Feb 02 2010 at 1:44 PM Rating: Default
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boriss wrote:
You really get offended easily considering how many peoples threads you come into and stomp all over people. Seeing as you are now coming down to insulting english to avoid an argument you brought up :S... i dunno. An opinion is fine but you are borderline unnecessarily insulting to people because they don't agree with you.

I'm not avoiding an argument (like you just did, by putting up a straw man argument) in any of my posts in this thread. The poster that I quoted with terrible English said—almost word-for-word—what I said in the post he was replying to.

I've not been insulting to anyone until I insulted his English. I haven't been calling people morons, idiots, etc. I've been calmly stating that I have more experience in both games than everyone that's posted thus far (if anyone wants to post their screenshots of them taking down AV, they're welcome to refute that), therefore I know what I'm talking about.

You assuming that I'm here just to stomp on people is erroneous; were I wanting to do that, I'd be in the WoW General forum. People over there in general are far more susceptible to flame-bait, and I usually don't have to rack my brain to try and decipher posts that don't even follow basic grammar rules.

I'm here to inject some objectivity into the debate, which has now gone far afield as FFXI fanboys have come here to defend their precious game.

If you'd like me to make a list of where WoW and FFXI both fail, I'd be happy to do so, but no one has done the sensible thing thus far and asked, "Well Theo, if FFXI fails in comparison with WoW—and you dislike WoW as well—where does WoW fail, so we can see what would be an even better solution to the problems that were present in FFXI?"
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#106 Feb 02 2010 at 2:15 PM Rating: Decent
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I hope FFXIV is neither FFXI or WoW. I hope FFXIV is very innovative in its combat.

Also I hope the mobs don't get any stuns/sleeps/confuse/fear/whatever or overuse them. I hate those oh so much.

WoW's fear locks and stun locks are the things that make that game very very unpleasant.
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#107 Feb 02 2010 at 3:47 PM Rating: Default
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ashikenshin wrote:
WoW's fear locks and stun locks are the things that make that game very very unpleasant.

Fear/stun locks don't exist anymore, since the changes to PvP trinkets and DRs.

CC chains exist in arenas, but any really long chain is exhausted very quickly due to DRs.
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#109 Feb 02 2010 at 4:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Overlord Theophany wrote:

Fear/stun locks don't exist anymore, since the changes to PvP trinkets and DRs.

CC chains exist in arenas, but any really long chain is exhausted very quickly due to DRs.


They are long enough for people to kill you. I know, I'm playing WoW right now and they haven't gone anywhere.

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#111Overlord Theophany, Posted: Feb 02 2010 at 7:17 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) No, not really. Trust me, I've been a far bigger douche bag than I'm being in this thread. Right now, I'm only pointing out that I've done more in both FFXI and WoW than anyone in this thread, and what my objective thoughts are of both games. Everyone else is choosing to take what I'm saying completely out of context.
#112 Feb 02 2010 at 8:11 PM Rating: Default
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The rallying against Theophany seems completely unjustified to me.
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#113 Feb 02 2010 at 9:08 PM Rating: Good
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ashikenshin wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:

Fear/stun locks don't exist anymore, since the changes to PvP trinkets and DRs.

CC chains exist in arenas, but any really long chain is exhausted very quickly due to DRs.


They are long enough for people to kill you. I know, I'm playing WoW right now and they haven't gone anywhere.

virash and kyuyuna on laughing skull.

Quote:
If you have no resilience gear, it doesn't shock me at all.

Though if you get fear/stunlocked as a DK, LOLURBAD. Seriously. You're awful if you get killed by rogues/locks as a DK.



Thats another reason right there why serious PvP gets a no from me. Because someone is always going to waggle their d*ck over someone else, i'm guessing you're the same type of person that looks up people on armory whenever they post ANYTHING spouting off the same "cool" lingo.





Edited, Feb 2nd 2010 9:20pm by Ipwnrice
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#114 Feb 02 2010 at 10:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Something like ballista should be fine (with actual rewards) other then that its a no for me , so the PvPers can enjoy it without effecting the rest of players.

As for Teamwork, the different between WoW and FFXI is that the later enforce it while leveling not just endgame/events.

my 2cents
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#115 Feb 03 2010 at 1:30 AM Rating: Decent
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I think recreating pvp in the wow sense horde vs alliance is genious and why would it offset balance? I think it would be awesome but keep in mind I am pro ffxi 110% and i despise all things WoW but pvp is an outstanding implementation to any game these days. for the record pvp in ffxi is awesome lol and it has its strategies you just have to get together with friends and go in together and have a blast :)

pvp has nothing to do with pve and gear should be valid for both situations, sam goes for abilities, why would it affect any other aspect of the game? I think a healthy dosage of readily available and exposed pvp in a pve world of ffxi would be pure win. with some updated graphics and fov style helping hands for the not so dedicated ppl (i.e. wow players )and ffxiv can't go wrong. Optimistically speaking. smooth the edges make some things a little more accessible so not to lose the depth that ffxi had and it can be an overwhelming success imo.
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#116 Feb 03 2010 at 2:23 AM Rating: Good
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Except that it's not a FFXI board. It's a FFXIV board. As in, not the same game.


Urm...

Quote:
Of course ppl are gonna come in and defend FFXI it's a FF message board.


Yeah, he never said is was an FFXI board. Just an FF related one.

Anyhoo~ There's been some indication that PvP will feature in FFXIV and what kind of MMO will it be in this day and age if it didn't? Times have changed since both WOW and FFXI were released and both are good and appeal to different people for different reasons, you really can't throw in 'objective' opinions when you're always going to favour one over the other due to personal preferences. Point being, you really can't condone those who don't agree with that, personal preference.

I just hope they do it right, the last thing I want is a system like Aion implimented.

Don't want to PvP? Tough, here are some level 30+ in your level 20 PvE zone, good luck farming those nodes when you're *** is full of arrows/magic/sword.

#117 Feb 03 2010 at 2:30 AM Rating: Default
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Ipwnrice wrote:
ashikenshin wrote:
Overlord Theophany wrote:

Fear/stun locks don't exist anymore, since the changes to PvP trinkets and DRs.

CC chains exist in arenas, but any really long chain is exhausted very quickly due to DRs.


They are long enough for people to kill you. I know, I'm playing WoW right now and they haven't gone anywhere.

virash and kyuyuna on laughing skull.

Quote:
If you have no resilience gear, it doesn't shock me at all.

Though if you get fear/stunlocked as a DK, LOLURBAD. Seriously. You're awful if you get killed by rogues/locks as a DK.



Thats another reason right there why serious PvP gets a no from me. Because someone is always going to waggle their d*ck over someone else, i'm guessing you're the same type of person that looks up people on armory whenever they post ANYTHING spouting off the same "cool" lingo.

Wait, so people don't get berated for having sub-par gear in FFXI?

Could have fooled me; I remember an entire RNG forum mocking someone because they were using a regular Hellfire, not a Hellfire +1 or an Ebow.

Just saying, you're gonna have ****-waving in every game you play. It's the internet.

What I was pointing out was that due to his class, he should not ever lose to a rogue or a warlock, because his class is specifically meant to shut down and kill those classes. In addition, he has fairly decent PvE gear, so it doesn't mean that a rogue or a lock can just outgear him to an absurd extent.
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#118 Feb 03 2010 at 3:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Its still way too early to tell, but based solely upon what we've seen of the battle system for XIV so far PvP looks like it'll be frustrating. Maybe they'll tune it up a bit or have a completely different system for PvP. Who knows?


As for stun locks they died out in TBC and melting someones face in a fear chain has become increasingly hard especially with the recent changes to resilience. There is a difference between being ganked in world PvP with your PvE gear equipped vs being in an arena with other players geared in resilience. Patch only came out yesterday, but after some skirmishes its clear that bursting someone down isn't happening like it used to.

Also, its not like there weren't ways to pull off locks in ballista. Rdm/Nin comes to mind. If XIV is going to have good PvP then the mechanics of the game need to change in regards to spell casting specifically interrupts. No way in **** I'd play a caster class if its not a pushback mechanic unless there is some interrupt gear that actually does what it is supposed to do.

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#119His Excellency Aethien, Posted: Feb 03 2010 at 7:42 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) People always rally against Theo.
#120 Feb 03 2010 at 9:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Overlord Theophany wrote:

If you have no resilience gear, it doesn't shock me at all.

Though if you get fear/stunlocked as a DK, LOLURBAD. Seriously. You're awful if you get killed by rogues/locks as a DK.


I do have resilience gear, I haven't updated it yet cause I was working on my PVE gear. I'm not saying Pvp in wow sucks, I really like it. It's fun and engaging and now that there are cross server battlegrounds queueing for pvp is a breeze. I do get fear/stunlocked as a DK in battlegrounds, remember that this game has cooldowns and they aren't always up when you need them. Trinkets and stuff. With DK I usually win against locks but rogues somehow always find me when I'm vulnerable. With warrior I do a lot better against rogues but locks usually get me. I'm ok with it since its kinda like rock/paper/scissors.

My point was that stuns and fears (from the beginning of battlegrounds back in 2008 to now) are not fun. Not fun in the receiving end and add no skill to the one giving them. Taking control away from the character only adds frustration always has and always will.

I'm hopping FFXIV don't have those lame mechanics. They are lame and we can do without them.
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#121Overlord Theophany, Posted: Feb 03 2010 at 2:46 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Stuns and fears don't have any skill involved?
#122 Feb 03 2010 at 3:08 PM Rating: Decent
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Overlord Theophany wrote:

Stuns and fears don't have any skill involved?

So Stun in FFXI (in Ballista) isn't skillful if you use it to stun a magic spell. Gotcha.

There are loads of ways that you can escape and avoid stuns and fears; that you're not skilled enough to do so shouldn't be a primary concern, when tons of people are skilled enough to avoid them.


Ok care to tell me the ways to avoid stuns and fears? How about when your PvP trinket is down? What skill is there to come out of a stun you are already in?
I haven't seen one skilled PvPer in WoW be that skilled to avoid a fear from a warlock he is not seeing. I'm talking about battlegrounds not that stupid arena crap. And the stun in FFXI has very little of the part I'm talking about. Stun in FFXI stops spellcasting but doesn't take control from you character for 30 seconds.

If you tell me rogues or warlocks require skilled players in order to become good at PvP I will have to laugh hard at you.

I don't know why I'm arguing with you since I am always agreeing with what you say. And you are right about the skill from a dark knight in FFXI to stun a spell. But, that wasn't my subject.

With that said, PvP in WoW is awesome, just wish the rewards from battlegrounds would be on par with those from arenas. I may not be the best PvPer but I do enjoy playing battlegrounds. Sometimes its all I do.
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"should you punch a six-year old girl in the face -- or should you punch her in the stomach? Hmm, that's a toughie."

Battlecat:
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#123Overlord Theophany, Posted: Feb 03 2010 at 3:28 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I can vanish incoming fears: ****, I vanish death coil, an instant spell. Most rogues may not be that skilled, but the difference between an average rogue and a rogue like me (who's been to 2200+ in arena) is night and day.
#124 Feb 03 2010 at 4:09 PM Rating: Good
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Overlord Theophany wrote:

I can vanish incoming fears: ****, I vanish death coil, an instant spell. Most rogues may not be that skilled, but the difference between an average rogue and a rogue like me (who's been to 2200+ in arena) is night and day.

Stopping incoming fears is exceptionally easy: use line of sight to block the lock out.

Avoiding stuns as a DK is easy as well. When a rogue drops out of stealth on you, they're probably going to be using cheap shot; trinket that, then use IBF. That or wait until the last second of CS, use your ghoul pet stun, then pop IBF while they're stunned. They won't be able to get kidney shot off (or will waste it while you're immune) and you'll be able to happily put up your diseases and wail away on the rogue.

Oh, and you can also AMS incoming fears, if you have the RP. I did that all the time on my rogue with Cloak of Shadows.


Hmmm I'm printing this and trying it out tonight! thx :P I guess you do learn something every day.

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Battlecat:
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#125 Feb 03 2010 at 6:39 PM Rating: Default
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they should make a WoW vs FFXI pvp onry champion edition XD
import your characters to a shared exclusive server and duke it out

Edited, Feb 3rd 2010 7:39pm by goblinpimp
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#126 Feb 03 2010 at 8:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Avoiding stuns as a DK is easy as well. When a rogue drops out of stealth on you, they're probably going to be using cheap shot; trinket that, then use IBF. That or wait until the last second of CS, use your ghoul pet stun, then pop IBF while they're stunned. They won't be able to get kidney shot off (or will waste it while you're immune) and you'll be able to happily put up your diseases and wail away on the rogue.

Oh, and you can also AMS incoming fears, if you have the RP. I did that all the time on my rogue with Cloak of Shadows.


You could also wait out the cheap shot if you have heals or enough health to make a recovery and trinket the kidney shot. After that the rogue only really has blind for CC unless he blows his prep. Get a disease ticking on him immediately to make him cloak before he blows vanish and use your ghoul stun after he blows prep if you're still healthy. After blowing CDs rogues are more of an annoyance than a danger.

For locks yeah, anti-magic is amazing for any kind of incoming magic CC. Learn to play and use your class abilities.

Quote:
I'm talking about battlegrounds not that stupid arena crap.


You should pay more attention to the 'stupid arena crap'. Its where you'll find most of the skilled players using strategies like Theophany mentioned. With each patch that comes out it becomes increasingly harder for stun/fear locks as you'll hear from many of the seasoned vets if you ask them. They do still work, but only against players who don't know how to counter them, aren't geared enough or don't have a healer to keep them alive through the burst.
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Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#127 Feb 04 2010 at 12:44 PM Rating: Decent
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Well, sort of getting back on topic, I don't think there is any reason to believe that the modest errors in WoW's pvp system should eliminate the possibility of pvp an any future title within the genre.

It's akin to saying that there should never be any future title in the survival genre after Resident Evil. Even though some of the best titles in the genre came after RE 1&2.

I guess what I'm saying is, it's really foolish to even consider the possibility that a new MMORPG will exclude PVP altogether...So "PVP in FFXIV Yes or No?"

Without a doubt, yes.
#128AureliusSir the Irrelevant, Posted: Feb 04 2010 at 1:05 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) The first attack from the FFXI character would have to be a pretty good one, because the WoW character would faceroll them while the FFXI was trying to get his next attack off. Not talking skill, just mechanics.
#129 Feb 05 2010 at 2:09 PM Rating: Excellent
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One big problem with making FFXIV have a "PVP server" option is typically those types of servers are race vs race or faction vs faction. In FFXIV there are no opposing races or factions, everyone is on the same team. I like the sense of teamwork that this system evokes. I am not opposed to systems where it is more of a competitive sport to spar together such as the ballista system. If that type of system were used more widely it would be a blast.
#130 Feb 05 2010 at 2:41 PM Rating: Good
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There is a huge disscusion in the WoW community that the PVP side of WoW is destroying the PvE side of WoW. I doubt we are ever going to see any PVP worth speaking of in FFXIV.


Edited, Feb 5th 2010 3:41pm by Maldavian
#131 Feb 05 2010 at 3:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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a lot of FFXI folks wander over here thinking it's just an extension of the FFXI boards. Of course it's not, as the URL and header would indicate, but if you're hard pressed to defend bad, any justification will do.


URL: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?game=268&mid=126470658889082487&post=1&replyto=126470658889082487&page=3

Header: "Allakhazam.com: Final Fantasy XI: PvP in FFXIV - {Yes. Please}"

am I missing something?

I'm not saying this should be considered an extension of the FFXI boards, but it technically is regardless of whether that was a good decision on the admins part.


PvP: the developers of FFXIV (who are the same people who made FFXI), have explicitly stated that their overwhelming focus will be on PvE (like FFXI, whether you agree that this is a good decision or not), and people shouldn't expect anything more than the same sort of "sports" (Team v Team, ex: ballista/brenner) PvP content, and probably not even that to start out with. If this is a deal breaker for whoever, they should probably start looking at other games now, instead of sitting here wasting time starting fights about how they wish FFXIV would be more like ____ PvP MMMO.
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#132 Feb 05 2010 at 3:31 PM Rating: Good
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Maldavian wrote:
There is a huge disscusion in the WoW community that the PVP side of WoW is destroying the PvE side of WoW. I doubt we are ever going to see any PVP worth speaking of in FFXIV.


Edited, Feb 5th 2010 3:41pm by Maldavian


Frankly, WoW PvE isn't all that great after you beat it the first time. They did right in paying more attention to PvP mechanics.
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#133 Feb 05 2010 at 3:48 PM Rating: Decent
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shintasama wrote:
URL: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?game=268&mid=126470658889082487&post=1&replyto=126470658889082487&page=3

Header: "Allakhazam.com: Final Fantasy XI: PvP in FFXIV - {Yes. Please}"

am I missing something?

I'm not saying this should be considered an extension of the FFXI boards, but it technically is regardless of whether that was a good decision on the admins part.

It's still not. You're viewing this page under the FFXI template. I'm currently viewing it under the FFXIV template, with the URL http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?game=268&mid=126470658889082487&post=1&replyto=1265405255305556641&page=3.

If I wanted to I could open it with the http://lotro.allakhazam.com/forum.html?game=268&mid=126470658889082487&post=1&replyto=1265405255305556641&page=3 lotro template. So no this board is not an extension of the FFXI boards in any sense of the word.

Sidenote: I never knew that the forum automatically corrects the url to the proper template. Whenever I try to link this thread as a lotro page it automatically changes the link to FFXIV template for me.

Edited, Feb 5th 2010 3:50pm by Allegory
#134 Feb 05 2010 at 3:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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Allegory wrote:
shintasama wrote:
URL: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?game=268&mid=126470658889082487&post=1&replyto=126470658889082487&page=3

Header: "Allakhazam.com: Final Fantasy XI: PvP in FFXIV - {Yes. Please}"

am I missing something?

I'm not saying this should be considered an extension of the FFXI boards, but it technically is regardless of whether that was a good decision on the admins part.

It's still not. You're viewing this page under the FFXI template. I'm currently viewing it under the FFXIV template, with the URL http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?game=268&mid=126470658889082487&post=1&replyto=1265405255305556641&page=3.

If I wanted to I could open it with the http://lotro.allakhazam.com/forum.html?game=268&mid=126470658889082487&post=1&replyto=1265405255305556641&page=3 lotro template. So no this board is not an extension of the FFXI boards in any sense of the word.

Sidenote: I never knew that the forum automatically corrects the url to the proper template. Whenever I try to link this thread as a lotro page it automatically changes the link to FFXIV template for me.
interesting, as aure pointed out it's still an extension in that there is a link in the FFXI sidebar template listing it as a sub-forum of FFXI, it's weird that they arranged it that way though.

Edited, Feb 5th 2010 4:59pm by shintasama
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#135 Feb 05 2010 at 5:00 PM Rating: Good
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821 posts
PvP like in Ballista...I don't mind...PvP like Arena in WoW NO THANKS!!!

The whole Arena **** in WoW messed up the class balance to a degree where WoW never became the way it was...

PvP based on a Dueling system where real factors like "ranking" and "rewards" are applied only trigger whining from players who don't win and class balancing that wouldn't be neccesarry...

Open PvP...in some sort ok...everywhere...no thanks...arena based PvP...like I said **** no...it destroyed classes in WoW and it destroys classes in every MMO when its not done right...and believe me...its never done right-_-
#136 Feb 05 2010 at 7:49 PM Rating: Decent
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4,149 posts
Quote:
PvP based on a Dueling system where real factors like "ranking" and "rewards" are applied only trigger whining from players who don't win and class balancing that wouldn't be neccesarry...

Open PvP...in some sort ok...everywhere...no thanks...arena based PvP...like I said **** no...it destroyed classes in WoW and it destroys classes in every MMO when its not done right...and believe me...its never done right-_-



The fact that packets of data travel through the inturwebs triggers whining. IIRC the same thing was happening when ballista was popular so its not specific to any game. You will always have people who maybe do not understand their class/job well enough or are too lazy to find the counters to their nemesis class/jobs. That is how its always gonna be regardless of which game or how balanced it may be.

I'm not really understanding what you mean by saying arena based PvP destroyed classes in WoW. Can you be more specific? All classes on some level have either had their abilities scaled down, tinkered with or moved around in talent trees or in some cases completely removed in WoW arena PvP. If something is way overpowered in arenas it gets removed or suffers from DR. These changes for the most part have no effect on PvE encounters. Making adjustments to classes abilities is something that needs to be done from time to time in ANY mmo. If it doesn't the classes become stale and everyone likes new toys.

As for PvP in XIV I will restate... Wait until you see the battle system before you make a decision on how and where you think PvP fits into this game. Battle mechanics play a large part in the reasoning behind SE focusing very little on PvP.
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#137 Feb 06 2010 at 6:27 PM Rating: Decent
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191 posts
goblinpimp wrote:
they should make a WoW vs FFXI pvp onry champion edition XD
import your characters to a shared exclusive server and duke it out

Edited, Feb 3rd 2010 7:39pm by goblinpimp


There is a big thing here, health. In WoW before I quit I had 41k unbuffed. In FFXI the most you'll see is what? 3k with a Galka MNK or so? Instant loss for the FFXI char.
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#138 Feb 06 2010 at 11:05 PM Rating: Decent
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223 posts
Although I haven't been a member of this forum long enough to have time to read the entirety of this thread, I've noticed no one has made any mention of Age of Conan PvP in which there are specific servers not only for PvP and PvE only, but the "in-betweeners" as well. I would definitely approve of something like this because it seems to cover most of the bases, but I agree with what a lot of other people have been saying about classes getting unnecessary buffs due to the whiners. That is what absolutely ruined AoC for me in the long run. A Herald of Xotli 15 levels lower than me could destroy my Priest of Mitra after several updates and changes not long after the relsease while I was on a PvP server. I don't know if the developers would even have enough time and energy to put into creating a PvP system that wouldn't turn a lot of their target fanbase off that is different from what was originally in FFXI. I think it will probably stay pretty similar but with a new version of Ballista or something along those lines.
#139 Feb 07 2010 at 4:45 AM Rating: Excellent
Serielley wrote:
I know that there's a lot of time to kill before release, which means that there's going to be a lot of speculation and silliness on the forums, but when you're dealing with a topic that the devs have explicitly addressed, it is pointless to try and argue for or wish for something different.


I agree.

If a game is going to have any substantial PvP element to it, it needs to be developed that way from the very start. Open world PvP would fall under the category of "major PvP element." You can't take a game that has been built from the ground up around the notion of PvE play and then suddenly throw in a significant dose of PvP without breaking the game.
#140 Feb 09 2010 at 1:22 AM Rating: Default
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108 posts
Quote:
(if anyone wants to post their screenshots of them taking down AV, they're welcome to refute that)


This, although impressive on a personal and ls level,
fails to warrant claims such as
Quote:
I have more experience in both games


or

Quote:
therefore I know what I'm talking about.


I'm not doubting you experience or anything you seem like an intelligent poster and player and are entertaining to read,simply pointing out AV on your belt is not getting anyone a hard on around here nor does it mean your posts are the equivalent of biblical scriptures.

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#141 Feb 09 2010 at 2:22 AM Rating: Excellent
Serielley wrote:
[quote=shintasama]
*snip*

I know that there's a lot of time to kill before release, which means that there's going to be a lot of speculation and silliness on the forums, but when you're dealing with a topic that the devs have explicitly addressed, it is pointless to try and argue for or wish for something different.



SE does have people who read these boards. I think just the fact that this thread has been so active says something. If SE is absolutely not going to do a full PvP type system (which is likely the case) then maybe threads like these will at least spark production of XIV Ballista?

It is not pointless to discuss PvP with SE being willing to consider Ballista. Just as long as everyone here knows where SE currently stands.
#142 Feb 09 2010 at 3:39 AM Rating: Good
Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Serielley wrote:
[quote=shintasama]
*snip*

I know that there's a lot of time to kill before release, which means that there's going to be a lot of speculation and silliness on the forums, but when you're dealing with a topic that the devs have explicitly addressed, it is pointless to try and argue for or wish for something different.



SE does have people who read these boards. I think just the fact that this thread has been so active says something. If SE is absolutely not going to do a full PvP type system (which is likely the case) then maybe threads like these will at least spark production of XIV Ballista?

It is not pointless to discuss PvP with SE being willing to consider Ballista. Just as long as everyone here knows where SE currently stands.


I personally don't think SE needs a thread like this to be aware that there are going to be players who would enjoy a PvP element to the game. There's a difference between wishful thinking and informed speculation. PvP in FFXIV beyond the scope of what was seen in FFXI would fall under the category of wishful thinking. Game developers who build games from the ground up with PvP in mind have a hard enough time trying to stay on top of the adjustments and balance as it is. If a developer isn't going to put an enormous amount of time and effort into PvP, it's not worth implementing. SE has made it clear that they're not interested in putting in that level of effort and commitment, hence discussion around the opportunity for open world PvP and things of a similar scale are not exactly inappropriate but nonetheless frivilous and not all that meaningful.
#143 Feb 09 2010 at 3:45 AM Rating: Good
AureliusSir the Irrelevant wrote:
Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Serielley wrote:
[quote=shintasama]
*snip*

I know that there's a lot of time to kill before release, which means that there's going to be a lot of speculation and silliness on the forums, but when you're dealing with a topic that the devs have explicitly addressed, it is pointless to try and argue for or wish for something different.



SE does have people who read these boards. I think just the fact that this thread has been so active says something. If SE is absolutely not going to do a full PvP type system (which is likely the case) then maybe threads like these will at least spark production of XIV Ballista?

It is not pointless to discuss PvP with SE being willing to consider Ballista. Just as long as everyone here knows where SE currently stands.


I personally don't think SE needs a thread like this to be aware that there are going to be players who would enjoy a PvP element to the game. There's a difference between wishful thinking and informed speculation. PvP in FFXIV beyond the scope of what was seen in FFXI would fall under the category of wishful thinking. Game developers who build games from the ground up with PvP in mind have a hard enough time trying to stay on top of the adjustments and balance as it is. If a developer isn't going to put an enormous amount of time and effort into PvP, it's not worth implementing. SE has made it clear that they're not interested in putting in that level of effort and commitment, hence discussion around the opportunity for open world PvP and things of a similar scale are not exactly inappropriate but nonetheless frivilous and not all that meaningful.



Just for the record, I am not advocating full on PvP in XIV. It's not what I want in an FF game. Although I wouldn't say no to a DAoC style battleground.... those were the days... I was just saying that nothing is worth not discussing. Just so long as everyone is aware of the reality of things.
#144 Feb 11 2010 at 3:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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11,539 posts
Currently, I'm in a transition period. I'm burned out on FFXI and waiting for FFXIV and have been playing WoW in the mean time (PvE server) and one of the things I dislike about WoW is that DESPITE being on a PvE server, there is STILL too much PvP for my tastes. I can't fully explore the world without being attacked by "enemy" characters if I get flagged by accident, I get flagged heading to do VoA and have to be careful no one sees me... I just don't like PvP at all.

I tried looking for another MMORPG to play instead of WoW, but unfortunately the other options out there (Aion, Guild Wars, etc) have even MORE PvP. The only decent MMOG out there that I know of that is PvP lite is FFXI, and I'm hoping and praying that FFXIV has as little or less PvP than FFXI has.

One thing I do like about WoW's PvP content is that PvP gear rewards are gear made for PvP; no Arena gear is "needed" for PvE content.

Optimally, I'd prefer no PvP at all in 14. If there must be PvP, I just hope that the rewards aren't as good as PvE rewards for PvE content. If I can be attacked by another PLAYER in the game, that's too much PvP for me.

I'll go back to my Taco Bell Analogy; there are dozens of burger places and very few taco places. If I want Tacos, I want to go to a Taco place and get Tacos. There are dozens of games out there with PvP. I want a game that doesn't have it. Currently, FFXI is pretty much the only one out there that fits this; I'm hoping XIV will too.
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#145 Feb 11 2010 at 7:22 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
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162 posts
Played WoW and FFXI:

WoW on PvP server, levelling became a pain when your level 20ish in Hillsbrad Foothills and a Level 50+ Alliance character just roams 1 shotting you because he literally has nothing to do and gets no reward of any kind from killing you, not only does he kill you once he camps you and doesnt let you play.

FFXI if you want to PvP you go to Ballista, problem solved.

FFXIV please impliment a system where pvp exists but doesnt force you to lose time in levelling because some prick wants to do nothing more than kill people less than half his level.

That is all for now ^_^
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#146 Feb 25 2010 at 4:01 PM Rating: Good
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264 posts
I know it is not the same thing as playing a FF game, but to those that crave PvP, why not set your sites on Fantasy Earth Zero? It is a SE game, so it should still have that SE feel to it. I think you can even sign up for the U.S. Beta right now. I do not know a lot about the game, but I do know it is a previously unreleased to the west, SE mmorpg with a FOCUS on PvP. The graphics are a slight bit dated, but it does have faster combat (which I would think would be appreciated for PvP). Anyways, just something to think about.
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#147 Feb 25 2010 at 4:37 PM Rating: Good
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132 posts
Like many have mentioned already, maybe PVP will be fun, but balancing the game and other things might be a problem.

I would love to have PVP if there's as story line to it.

If say, FF14 has a story line where all 5 races were in war, fighting for turf fighting for resources etc. Sure, that would be something new and refreshing. So essentially, they could do something like Final Fantasy Tactics, like have Clan wars. Then of course, should you win, you get rewards goodies and so on. Perhaps the outcome of clan battles will also determine which area belongs to which race/country and you get special stats should your country own that area. So, same thing as conquest tally and .. uh.. region take over in FF11. Just make it that different "Clans" may battle each other, in an "instanced" way, then get rewarded for doing so.

I don't know, something a long that line would work. However, an open world where anyone can kill anybody at any given time is a, I'm sorry for lack of a better phrase, ******* retarded.

If you prefer that type of game play, you're more than welcome to search for those types of games to play. However, just don't try to bring some successful element from anther game into FF14. Sometimes, games are different for a reason. It's a matter of choice, choosing which one that appeals to you the most.

Final Fantasy series was never meant to be a Player vs. Player type of game, be it online or offline. Asking it to "become" a Blizzard product is asking too much IMHO.



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#148 Feb 25 2010 at 5:20 PM Rating: Good
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214 posts
I would rather not see any PVP but if there is, keep it to seperate servers.

That way anything which may need to be balanced for PVP can stay balanced to that server and not mess the PVE aspect up of the main servers.

I really think PVP fans are barking up the wrong tree with this one though.

Go play Aion or something :D
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#149 Feb 25 2010 at 6:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I'm here to inject some objectivity into the debate, which has now gone far afield as FFXI fanboys have come here to defend their precious game.


you all would do well to listen to what theo says. you may not like the way he says it but...hey, its just the **** internet. get over it.
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#150 Feb 26 2010 at 7:27 AM Rating: Good
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I'm not reading through 150 replies to this terribad idea.

There are already tons of PvP games out there. Go play one of them. This is the one game on the horizon promising to be an amazing PvE experience, and FF wouldn't be FF if you were fighting other players.

You're looking in the wrong place. (And I've been playing WoW on PvP servers for 5 years ... I'd love a good PvP MMO, but NOT FFXIV).
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#151 Feb 26 2010 at 11:14 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I'm not reading through 150 replies to this terribad idea.

There are already tons of PvP games out there. Go play one of them. This is the one game on the horizon promising to be an amazing PvE experience, and FF wouldn't be FF if you were fighting other players.

You're looking in the wrong place. (And I've been playing WoW on PvP servers for 5 years ... I'd love a good PvP MMO, but NOT FFXIV).


But there is eventually going to be a PvP element to FFXIV - I read that in the past each of the nations were at war with on another and just like in FFXI it might be possible to travel into the past during that waring time and PvP there? I doubt it will be PvP servers though, but I'd imagine if its in a war setting and just like a mini game it might be a lot of fun.

Edited, Feb 26th 2010 12:39pm by akelah
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