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PvP in FFXIV - {Yes, Please}Follow

#152 Feb 26 2010 at 11:40 AM Rating: Good
akelah wrote:
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I'm not reading through 150 replies to this terribad idea.

There are already tons of PvP games out there. Go play one of them. This is the one game on the horizon promising to be an amazing PvE experience, and FF wouldn't be FF if you were fighting other players.

You're looking in the wrong place. (And I've been playing WoW on PvP servers for 5 years ... I'd love a good PvP MMO, but NOT FFXIV).


But there is going to be a PvP element to FFXIV - I read that in the past each of the nations were at war with on another and just like in FFXI it is going to be possible to travel into the past during that waring time and PvP there.


The devs have said that if there is to be PvP, it's going to be on a very small scale similar to what is in FFXI. There's a difference between small scale PvP events that are done as a casual break from the rest of the game and significant PvP elements that require class adjustments to try and achieve a truly competitive environment. I would expect that the Echo aspect of FFXIV will be more about experiencing past events presented as PvE encounters than a justification to implement PvP in any substantial way.
#153 Feb 26 2010 at 12:26 PM Rating: Good
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The devs have said that if there is to be PvP, it's going to be on a very small scale similar to what is in FFXI. There's a difference between small scale PvP events that are done as a casual break from the rest of the game and significant PvP elements that require class adjustments to try and achieve a truly competitive environment. I would expect that the Echo aspect of FFXIV will be more about experiencing past events presented as PvE encounters than a justification to implement PvP in any substantial way.


I have also read something around that. One of the earlyer interviews. At the start when FFXIV comes out there is going to be no PvP stuff in the game, and if they do add it(if requested enough), it going to be a sport games(or around that) just like FFXI was. Remember FFXI had no PvP in it for awhile either.

Edit:Myself I don't like PvP. As long as they add it and, it doesn't mess up the PvE stuff with no open world PvP(sports only) i'm fine with it.

Edited, Feb 26th 2010 1:28pm by Zalongamer
#154 Feb 26 2010 at 1:10 PM Rating: Decent
PvP in FFXIV - {Limit it, Please}

First I have to say, I hate PvP. Mostly because it draws worst people to the game, people who enjoy griefing others. I have no problem with first person shooters PvP because everyone is even matched, however in MMORPGs you can dominate over others with mostly gear without much skill.

I play WoW and have a Retribution Paladin with end game PvE gear. I am sometimes required to do PvP such as completing a World Achievement to get my fast mount. Last one I did, a healer guildy followed me, I bursted down everyone I came across and ended up getting "Wrecking Ball achievement",(Get 20 killing blows without dying in a single battle in any battleground), easily. Sure this was very fun for me, but I doubt it was to anyone on the receiving end that didn't stand a chance.

I also played Aion for a short period. PvP in that game is in your face. I ended up quitting being sick of getting ganked by high level players while trying to complete PvE quests.

I want Square-Enix to limited PvP content and focus on story which is what makes Final Fantasy great.


Edited, Feb 26th 2010 2:17pm by Pseudopsia
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#155 Feb 26 2010 at 1:18 PM Rating: Good
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The devs have said that if there is to be PvP, it's going to be on a very small scale similar to what is in FFXI. There's a difference between small scale PvP events that are done as a casual break from the rest of the game and significant PvP elements that require class adjustments to try and achieve a truly competitive environment. I would expect that the Echo aspect of FFXIV will be more about experiencing past events presented as PvE encounters than a justification to implement PvP in any substantial way.


I dunno, I think if they were to add the PvP or even RvR the past would be the perfect setting, since its set apart from the rest of the game and of course you have reason to be fighting each other there. Yet it would still be something you have to sign up to too enjoy and take part, and not actually forced to.

Either way its not going to be something implimented right away - but I'm sure I read an interview where they stated that would be the place to set any PvP. I can see it being the bastilla type - I just hope they can keep it interesting enough not to die out in this game too. The big problem with Bastilla for me is the being in the right place at a specific time and waiting...thats all FFXI involved, a whole boat load of waiting!

WARs RvR was very fun, but that just had a problem with balance. The winner of any major battle was determined by how many they had actively fighting and still logged in after the servers sh*t and died due to load. But, was still fun.

I however do not want to see this.

Quote:
being able to kill any player, at any time, in any area.


Also...

Quote:
I also played Aion for a short period. PvP in that game is in your face. I ended up quitting being sick of getting ganked by high level players while trying to complete PvE quests.


I quit for the same reasons.

Edited, Feb 26th 2010 2:20pm by akelah
#156 Feb 26 2010 at 2:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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I dislike a game where another -player- can kill me at nearly any time. I'm okay with WoW's PvE servers wherein so long as you don't flag yourself, attack other faction NPCs, enter BGs, enter WG, enter arena, click accept to a duel, you don't have to worry about it.

I don't like the idea of getting ganked. It's a one sided fight that I have no chance at winning, I don't see it as anything more than a **** move. The fact that I can level up and then be a **** to other people who have done nothing wrong to e does not suddenly make it okay to me.

I have to admit that there are some people who just run their mouth or act like idiots and a baser part of e would like to just beat their face in... but not at the cost of everything else that comes with having world PvP.

There are dozens of games on the market with world PvP. Actually, I'm TRYING to find an MMORPG that DOESN'T have world PvP so that I have something to play UNTIL 14 comes out and I CAN'T find one. So yeah, those people who like world PvP, you have dozens of games you can play. Leave me with my PvE game.
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#157 Feb 26 2010 at 2:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Dont' get my previous post wrong - I would love to see PvP mini-games implemented.

Ballista in FFXI was clearly an afterthought, but a fun diversion nevertheless. The problem with it was the schedule. I remember having to stay up one night until 6am EST for the scheduled match! The game itself was far from perfect, but still a fun diversion. The biggest problem was all of the overhead required to participate, which kept it pretty dead. (Keep in mind my experience is 5 years old, I'm sure it's changed since then).

I've been playing PvP WoW for so long. I still remember the first time I ever got ganked. I was a lowbie Horde Hunter (L24 I think) in 1k Needles minding my own business. A Gnome Mage rides over to me on his mount (OMG it was like the third time I had ever seen a mount!), gets off his mount, /laughs at me, and 2-shots me. I laughed it off. I mean it's only bad if you let it get to you, right?

People focus on the griefing aspect of factional PvP. It does happen. However, there is also a good side to it - spontaneous fights that erupt between players of similar levels and end up being open-ended and fun. 1v1 fights often turn into mosterous group battles. A simple gank often turns into a revenge gank which results in a bunch of people bringing their 80s and fighting it out ...

Having said all that, FF just doesn't lend itself to this sort of thing, and I think it would take a lot away from the game. One of the things that was nice about FFXI is that everyone was on the same team, with the same goals. It wasn't a community split down the middle. Ideally, the PvE will be challenging and fun. Please keep PvP in mini-games! (and make them more accessible than Ballista)
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#158 Feb 26 2010 at 2:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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PvP like you want just makes a hostile game environment. I've been griefed in WoW more than I can count. How would this be any different?
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#159 Feb 26 2010 at 4:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jordster wrote:
People focus on the griefing aspect of factional PvP. It does happen. However, there is also a good side to it - spontaneous fights that erupt between players of similar levels and end up being open-ended and fun. 1v1 fights often turn into mosterous group battles. A simple gank often turns into a revenge gank which results in a bunch of people bringing their 80s and fighting it out ...


The above, to me, while I could understand the inherent amusement, just strikes me personally as anti-fun. I think back to pre-despawn in FFXI where someone accidentally (or intentionally) trains 3-4 Goblins to Kazham and they start destroying people. So one or two people hop on their higher leveled jobs, make short work of the Goblins, and everyone goes back to leveling. Occasionally I'd have some fun hanging out in Yuhtunga or Garlaige or CN on a random 75, helping parties kill clear out packs of mobs that get drug to zone and don't quite make it back to their starting point.

When I think world PvP, I think of that. Except that the mobs just keep on attacking the parties. And then the mobs bring their level 75 mob friends and they start attacking the 75s who were helping in the first place. While I understand that different people have different ideas of fun, volley after volley of people intent on stopping you from XPing is not my idea of it.

Jordster wrote:
Having said all that, FF just doesn't lend itself to this sort of thing, and I think it would take a lot away from the game. One of the things that was nice about FFXI is that everyone was on the same team, with the same goals. It wasn't a community split down the middle. Ideally, the PvE will be challenging and fun. Please keep PvP in mini-games! (and make them more accessible than Ballista)


Despite the fact that I've never participated in a single Ballista or Brenner match, I do feel that they should have been queue or sign up to join, rather than scheduled, much like BGs in WoW. I still would have no interest in them, but I think that one of the main reasons that hardly anyone ever did Ballista was -because- they didn't want to wait for the next scheduled match.
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#160 Feb 26 2010 at 5:37 PM Rating: Decent
Yes that does suck that ballista is scheduled and no one ever shows :(
There is also pvp where you can enter when you wish and its fun to grab some friends and do some 1 on 1
or 3v3 etc.
As long as its more accessible in FFXIV, as long as its an option I will be happy.
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#161 Feb 26 2010 at 7:23 PM Rating: Good
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No way. PvP ruins the PvE element of the game.
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#162 Feb 26 2010 at 11:11 PM Rating: Good
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Meh makes me a little sick how everyone always talks about Ballista and never mentions Brenner in FF11.

If you didn't know about Brenner of course then you shouldn't even be asking for PVP in FF14.
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#163 Feb 27 2010 at 8:44 AM Rating: Decent
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Diakar wrote:
Meh makes me a little sick how everyone always talks about Ballista and never mentions Brenner in FF11.

If you didn't know about Brenner of course then you shouldn't even be asking for PVP in FF14.
Brenner was rather poorly designed in most peoples opinions, people just wanted to fight each other, not bring PvE into a PvP event. It was a strange amalgamation of the two that was great in theory, but poorly executed. If it was what most originally thought it might be (Capture the Flag style) it would of been great. But it was some twisted, malformed version of CTF that I never really found to be as enjoyable as Ballista, and neither did many others as far as I can tell.
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#164 Jan 29 2010 at 4:18 AM Rating: Decent
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I played FFXI for a long time before I quit. Signed up for beta just for gits and shiggles...

I think after you guys see the battle system for FFXIV you'll quickly realize why PvP would be horrible. Not only for that reason, but another reason a few people have mentioned. Balance.

Having to balance a game is not a bad thing. The game is supposed to evolve and it should be tinkered with to make the playing experience a bit tighter. Thats not a problem as much as people think it is. The problem is that SE is unwilling to make the necessary changes and adjustments to balance out both PvE and PvP. Heck they hardly take the time to work out PvE elements. I sincerely doubt that SE is ready to commit to a game that requires them to make adjustments more than once every quarter. Time will tell I guess.

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#165 Aug 09 2010 at 10:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Well, it is blatently obvious the only other MMO most the people here have played is WOW, which had one of the worst pvp systems. Out of all the mmos I've played: Astonia, Lineage, Lineage 2, Aion, Age of Conan, FFXI, WOW, Diablo 2, the best pvp system was Lineage 2. In saying this i would like to see that sort of system in FFXIV which isnt likely but it would be nice. A breif background for those of you that didnt play it, it was open PVP anywhere any times, however, like diablo you could pk someone and if they werent fighting back you would go red and anyone could kill you for a chance for you to drop gear. If however, the person did fight back it would just be a group pvp with no loss of xp or gear. It was a great way to kick a group out of the best leveling spot or to gank people you didnt like if you wanted to risk losing gear. There were also castle seiges which were open pvp zones no flagging or pks, which if you took them your clan would get a ton of money depending on which castle it was. These were the reasons that millions of people played the game despite the 30 day in game minimum for max level.
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#166 Aug 09 2010 at 11:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Well Necro'd.

I'm not fussed about PvP in all honesty. The main concern, which like most games, is that one class will always out power the rest. The more classes you have, the less chance of it being equal. That being said, with this system, everyone is in an identical situation, and interesting builds and styles would ideally come out. I hope they bring it in gradually, rather server dedicated.
#167 Aug 09 2010 at 11:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Why was it necessary to necrobump a post to explain a dislike for something that won't be in the game...

FFXIV will not have PvP and I'm not shedding any tears over it.
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#168 Aug 09 2010 at 11:52 AM Rating: Decent
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My gut reaction is to reject PVP, since there are rarely rules set and GMs don't like interfering in day-to-day dramas. But at the very most, I would go for a duel-type of PVP, a BCPVP if you would. I wouldn't put equipment damage or exp on the chopping block, though it would be interesting to place bets of gil or equipment between the two parties. Maybe allow bets to go on for outside parties, through some sort of NPC, where the winner draws some of the total wagered money as well. Doesn't Ul'dah have an arena?
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#169 Aug 09 2010 at 12:11 PM Rating: Good
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Edit: /sigh can't believe I spent this much time venting over a necrothread. Deleted.

Edited, Aug 9th 2010 11:14am by desmar
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#170 Aug 09 2010 at 12:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Hydragyrum wrote:
I love how a discussion on possible PvP in FFXIV turned into a discussion of PvE in WoW. I think this is obvious evidence that we're in desperate need of new official info regarding FFXIV. :D


I have to agree w/ this completely. I've been readin these post and it's slowly gone from PVP yes or no, to WOW vs FFXI, to bickering about some 'facts' or 'personal opinion' posted.
I have to say that I wouldn't mind some time of PVP either through some type of 'sporting event' or if they did it by servers like WOW did.
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#171 Aug 09 2010 at 12:29 PM Rating: Decent
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RSquires wrote:
Hydragyrum wrote:
I love how a discussion on possible PvP in FFXIV turned into a discussion of PvE in WoW. I think this is obvious evidence that we're in desperate need of new official info regarding FFXIV. :D


I have to agree w/ this completely. I've been readin these post and it's slowly gone from PVP yes or no, to WOW vs FFXI, to bickering about some 'facts' or 'personal opinion' posted.
I have to say that I wouldn't mind some time of PVP either through some type of 'sporting event' or if they did it by servers like WOW did.


Try having an open PvP server when you are camping end game NM's and tell me how that works out for ya.
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#172 Aug 09 2010 at 12:30 PM Rating: Good
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Alkerr wrote:
RSquires wrote:
Hydragyrum wrote:
I love how a discussion on possible PvP in FFXIV turned into a discussion of PvE in WoW. I think this is obvious evidence that we're in desperate need of new official info regarding FFXIV. :D


I have to agree w/ this completely. I've been readin these post and it's slowly gone from PVP yes or no, to WOW vs FFXI, to bickering about some 'facts' or 'personal opinion' posted.
I have to say that I wouldn't mind some time of PVP either through some type of 'sporting event' or if they did it by servers like WOW did.


Try having an open PvP server when you are camping end game NM's and tell me how that works out for ya.


Oh dear God...

Yeah... no.
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#173 Aug 09 2010 at 12:45 PM Rating: Good
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Please, no. I HATE games that make it so you have to do PVP to get the best gear, and I hate games even more that full open PVP, even those that have special zones for pvp aside for what they did for things like ballista. Arena PVP is nice as long as it's just for pure fun, no gain, no loss, only prestige and e-peen.

Quote:
I have to agree w/ this completely. I've been readin these post and it's slowly gone from PVP yes or no, to WOW vs FFXI, to bickering about some 'facts' or 'personal opinion' posted.
I have to say that I wouldn't mind some time of PVP either through some type of 'sporting event' or if they did it by servers like WOW did.


I have to admit though, bringing that soccer/football esque game from FFX would be kinda cool.

Edited, Aug 9th 2010 2:47pm by VayMasters
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#174 Aug 09 2010 at 12:57 PM Rating: Good
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VayMasters wrote:
Please, no. I HATE games that make it so you have to do PVP to get the best gear, and I hate games even more that full open PVP, even those that have special zones for pvp aside for what they did for things like ballista. Arena PVP is nice as long as it's just for pure fun, no gain, no loss, only prestige and e-peen.

Quote:
I have to agree w/ this completely. I've been readin these post and it's slowly gone from PVP yes or no, to WOW vs FFXI, to bickering about some 'facts' or 'personal opinion' posted.
I have to say that I wouldn't mind some time of PVP either through some type of 'sporting event' or if they did it by servers like WOW did.


I have to admit though, bringing that soccer/football esque game from FFX would be kinda cool.

Edited, Aug 9th 2010 2:47pm by VayMasters


Meh, even if you did add PvP in a way that there was no win/loss tracking, people would still end up using it as an outlet to prove they're better than others. Rare though it might have been, you still had people in XI whose solution to shout arguments was to fight you in Diorama, and if you declined their offer, they just became belligerent.

Any PvP is too much PvP for me.
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#175 Aug 09 2010 at 1:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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No. No no no.

I can understand having a few PvP servers, maybe, for people like you (OP), but for me, it truly ruins the game. Look at WoW. I mean... I dunno, just look at the type of people it attracts. To me, FFXIV is so promising largely because I'm confident it's going to be an incredible PvE and just "run around and experience the game and meet people" experience. PvP would instantly make it into a "race to have the best everything and kill everyone and be about as likable as a chipped tooth despite your status as a PvPer" type of experience... and there is nothing enjoyable to me about being able to be killed at any time by any random 12-year-old that has nothing better to do, even if I could get stronger and do the same. It's a waste, and ruins the game, and is all the more reason for people to just rush and care about nothing beyond their characters' "numbers" rather than taking their time and enjoying things.

And furthermore, the complete and utter lack of any form of PvP aside from maybe /duel or an arena setting, like EverQuest 1-style, in my humble (and probably to be widely disagreed with) opinion, would, I very much believe, help deter a large number of immature little freckle-faced brats from even trying the game, which in my opinion is a wonderful thing.

Edited, Aug 9th 2010 3:05pm by Rellias
#176 Aug 09 2010 at 1:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Alkerr wrote:
RSquires wrote:
Hydragyrum wrote:
I love how a discussion on possible PvP in FFXIV turned into a discussion of PvE in WoW. I think this is obvious evidence that we're in desperate need of new official info regarding FFXIV. :D


I have to agree w/ this completely. I've been readin these post and it's slowly gone from PVP yes or no, to WOW vs FFXI, to bickering about some 'facts' or 'personal opinion' posted.
I have to say that I wouldn't mind some time of PVP either through some type of 'sporting event' or if they did it by servers like WOW did.


Try having an open PvP server when you are camping end game NM's and tell me how that works out for ya.


This is why you would pick a non PvP server, problem solved.

EDIT: I'm actually think that if there were PvP servers and non-PvP servers I think eventually the PvP's would slowly die out due to the comment above w/ the Camping NM's and such. Would still be fun to let all the PvP fans try it out, realize it doesn't work w/ FF's style of gaming then move to another server, or stop playing.

Edited, Aug 9th 2010 3:14pm by RSquires
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#177 Aug 09 2010 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
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Rellias wrote:
No. No no no.

I can understand having a few PvP servers, maybe, for people like you (OP), but for me, it truly ruins the game. Look at WoW. I mean... I dunno, just look at the type of people it attracts. To me, FFXIV is so promising largely because I'm confident it's going to be an incredible PvE and just "run around and experience the game and meet people" experience. PvP would instantly make it into a "race to have the best everything and kill everyone and be about as likable as a chipped tooth despite your status as a PvPer" type of experience... and there is nothing enjoyable to me about being able to be killed at any time by any random 12-year-old that has nothing better to do, even if I could get stronger and do the same. It's a waste, and ruins the game, and is all the more reason for people to just rush and care about nothing beyond their characters' "numbers" rather than taking their time and enjoying things.

And furthermore, the complete and utter lack of any form of PvP aside from maybe /duel or an arena setting, like EverQuest 1-style, in my humble (and probably to be widely disagreed with) opinion, would, I very much believe, help deter a large number of immature little freckle-faced brats from even trying the game, which in my opinion is a wonderful thing.

Edited, Aug 9th 2010 3:05pm by Rellias


The reason PvP servers work in WoW is because they have instances, where all the gear dropping bosses are found. You can't be ganked there, because you are segregated from everyone else. In FFXI the NM's that drop the rare gear are found (with some exceptions) out on the world map where anyone else can go at the same time. From what I have read FFXIV will be similar. Imagine trying to take down Tiamat or Fafnir while some other Linkshell is dropping your party. Simply put it's not possible.
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#178 Aug 09 2010 at 1:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Alkerr wrote:
Rellias wrote:
No. No no no.

I can understand having a few PvP servers, maybe, for people like you (OP), but for me, it truly ruins the game. Look at WoW. I mean... I dunno, just look at the type of people it attracts. To me, FFXIV is so promising largely because I'm confident it's going to be an incredible PvE and just "run around and experience the game and meet people" experience. PvP would instantly make it into a "race to have the best everything and kill everyone and be about as likable as a chipped tooth despite your status as a PvPer" type of experience... and there is nothing enjoyable to me about being able to be killed at any time by any random 12-year-old that has nothing better to do, even if I could get stronger and do the same. It's a waste, and ruins the game, and is all the more reason for people to just rush and care about nothing beyond their characters' "numbers" rather than taking their time and enjoying things.

And furthermore, the complete and utter lack of any form of PvP aside from maybe /duel or an arena setting, like EverQuest 1-style, in my humble (and probably to be widely disagreed with) opinion, would, I very much believe, help deter a large number of immature little freckle-faced brats from even trying the game, which in my opinion is a wonderful thing.

Edited, Aug 9th 2010 3:05pm by Rellias


The reason PvP servers work in WoW is because they have instances, where all the gear dropping bosses are found. You can't be ganked there, because you are segregated from everyone else. In FFXI the NM's that drop the rare gear are found (with some exceptions) out on the world map where anyone else can go at the same time. From what I have read FFXIV will be similar. Imagine trying to take down Tiamat or Fafnir while some other Linkshell is dropping your party. Simply put it's not possible.


Well, I'm not sure how the NM's and such will work in 14 but if it's anything like the missions or quest then I believe you'll be ok as they 'reserve' monsters for you if you have a 'kill list' to complete or something like that.
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#179 Aug 09 2010 at 1:30 PM Rating: Good
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RSquires wrote:
Alkerr wrote:
Rellias wrote:
No. No no no.

I can understand having a few PvP servers, maybe, for people like you (OP), but for me, it truly ruins the game. Look at WoW. I mean... I dunno, just look at the type of people it attracts. To me, FFXIV is so promising largely because I'm confident it's going to be an incredible PvE and just "run around and experience the game and meet people" experience. PvP would instantly make it into a "race to have the best everything and kill everyone and be about as likable as a chipped tooth despite your status as a PvPer" type of experience... and there is nothing enjoyable to me about being able to be killed at any time by any random 12-year-old that has nothing better to do, even if I could get stronger and do the same. It's a waste, and ruins the game, and is all the more reason for people to just rush and care about nothing beyond their characters' "numbers" rather than taking their time and enjoying things.

And furthermore, the complete and utter lack of any form of PvP aside from maybe /duel or an arena setting, like EverQuest 1-style, in my humble (and probably to be widely disagreed with) opinion, would, I very much believe, help deter a large number of immature little freckle-faced brats from even trying the game, which in my opinion is a wonderful thing.

Edited, Aug 9th 2010 3:05pm by Rellias




The reason PvP servers work in WoW is because they have instances, where all the gear dropping bosses are found. You can't be ganked there, because you are segregated from everyone else. In FFXI the NM's that drop the rare gear are found (with some exceptions) out on the world map where anyone else can go at the same time. From what I have read FFXIV will be similar. Imagine trying to take down Tiamat or Fafnir while some other Linkshell is dropping your party. Simply put it's not possible.


Well, I'm not sure how the NM's and such will work in 14 but if it's anything like the missions or quest then I believe you'll be ok as they 'reserve' monsters for you if you have a 'kill list' to complete or something like that.


Regardless, all someone has to do is walk up and attack you while you are trying to fight that mission mob, and you lose the fight. End game NM's in FFXI are a free-for-all, and they aready said that they aren't going the way of instances so I imagine FFXIV will be the same. Even if the NM was to de-spawn if the party engaging it dies, that won't stop a bitter group of people who were outclaimed from attacking you. Going a step further, Even if SE implemented some sort of "protection" while you were engaged in the fight, that wouldn't stop LS's from killing each other prior to the spawn. Open PvP in a game like this is a bad idea, period.

Edited, Aug 9th 2010 3:31pm by Alkerr
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#180 Aug 09 2010 at 2:05 PM Rating: Good
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PvP kill anytime, anywhere by anyone is lame because you can't have a good time playing the PvE game this way...I love love LOVEEE that SE didn't follow the herd with FFXIV and they're keeping their signature on it.
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#181 Aug 09 2010 at 2:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:

An example to support this: when I started FFXI two months ago, I had a real life friend start with me. He quit after the first week because he really wanted to see PvP in the game. That's $12.95 per month that SE was passing up right there -- and I'm sure this has happened thousands of times.


For every person that passed up FFXI for lack of PVP there was one who played it so this argument wouldn't help your case. If a game is good, people will play it, whether it has PvP or not.
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#182 Aug 09 2010 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
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SolidMack wrote:
Quote:

An example to support this: when I started FFXI two months ago, I had a real life friend start with me. He quit after the first week because he really wanted to see PvP in the game. That's $12.95 per month that SE was passing up right there -- and I'm sure this has happened thousands of times.


For every person that passed up FFXI for lack of PVP there was one who played it so this argument wouldn't help your case. If a game is good, people will play it, whether it has PvP or not.


Yup. I'd never have played FFXI and certainly wouldn't play XIV if it had the level of PvP that other games like Aion and WoW have. Aion looks really good but I won't play it because of the PvP. Guild Wars looks good but again, PvP.

It's pretty **** hard to find a good game that DOESN'T have a PvP emphasis. I'm glad to find one and I'll happily fork over 13 bucks a month for the next 5-10 years or so for it.

With my fiancee, who dislikes PvP even more than I do, that makes two of us.

With her brother, that makes three.

And so on...
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#183 Aug 09 2010 at 2:12 PM Rating: Decent
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way to necro bump. Didn't we already poll this? I believe most wanted some form of pvp like a battlegrounds/arena, a few wanted world, and about 2/5 wanted none at all.
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#184 Aug 09 2010 at 2:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Open world pvp kill anyone anytime is not the game I want to play in final fantasy XIV. If I wanted that I would play Aion or some other pvp MMO. An arena is fine or a set pvp place but leave me alone to explore and take in the world rather than get ganked and have to run my *** all the way back to where I was trying to accomplish something.
#185 Aug 09 2010 at 3:38 PM Rating: Good
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As some one who LOVES PvP let me say this.

PLEASE DON'T PUT ANY PVP IN FFXIV, EVER!

There are only two ways you can implement PvP in an MMO:

1) Make it a core part of the game. Balance the game, all the classes, all the gear, and every thing around PvP (the WoW, AoC, WAR, etc model).

2) Make it an afterthought. Don't try to balance it, don't make it required or even a good way to get rewards. Just make it a novelty for people who are bored. (The FFXI model).

Anything apart from these two extremes is asking, no BEGGING for your game to be an incoherent mess.

#2 is basically pointless, because poorly balanced PvP is fun for about 5 minutes before people who are on the wrong side of imbalance just stop wasting their time, or start crying for nerfs/buffs/etc. #1 can work, but it's like making a deal with the devil. Once you sell the soul of your game to PvP you will never get it back. You might have a great PvP game but you'll never have the best possible PvE game.

FFXIV should be about PvE first and only.

Let me say again, I am not against PvP. I played every arena season in WoW, have over 100k career honor kills on my warlock. I love PvP when it's done well, or even when it's done moderately well. I just don't think you can do it well unless you're willing to balance every single aspect of your game around PvP. S-E does compelling PvE. They are not known for PvP, and that's not the direction they should go with FFXIV. I don't even know if they ever could do PvP well, because I don't know if they are responsive enough to balance feedback. Please no PvP in FFXIV.
#186 Aug 09 2010 at 3:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Not sure why this is suddenly alive again...

PvP goes against the base feeling of Final Fantasy, being a party, a group of individuals who fight against evil/oppression/etc.

Also, any game that wants core PvP needs to build it as such from the start, often times these games also need a smaller amount of total classes.

I am sure SE will add many more classes for us in the future, now try to think if FFXI had core pvp, and trying to balance those massive amount of jobs all balanced for pvp as well as pve. Half those jobs would have likely never been introduced. It simply does not fit with this games type of setup.

Further as a game that heavily relies on its communities ability to communicate and work together (if its anything like XI was) PvP would heavily impact and damage that, as it tends to create a rift in the playerbase, splitting it into PvE'rs and PvP'rs who **** heads on every possible change and how it should be balanced.

Edited, Aug 9th 2010 5:48pm by Silverwyrm
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#187 Aug 09 2010 at 3:47 PM Rating: Good
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As much as I hate posting in necro'd topics I don't think I posted in this one originally so I'll do it now.

I love PvP. I joined a guild to play Warhammer Online prior to it's release because of that. PvP makes a gaming world a bit more dynamic and when done correctly can be really fun...which makes me sad Warhammer crashed and burned since it had so much potential...but anyway, that's another subject matter.

There's no place in any FF game for true PvP...it's just not part of that universe. All final fantasies are about people from different backgrounds coming together to defeat a common enemy who is bent on world domination. True PvP is the antithesis of this. I would be completely fine if there were some sort of minigame gladiator or other type of small scale PvP but really, FF is about PvE, PvP if implemented at all should be minimal and not contrary to the FF atmosphere.
#188 Aug 09 2010 at 4:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
PvP goes against the base feeling of Final Fantasy, being a party, a group of individuals who fight against evil/oppression/etc.


Now that I've come back for a while from wow, the only difference in the ffxi community now is the absence of people shouting [****] jokes in trade chat. People are much more rude and inconsiderate now. I've been shocked by how many people ninja log, up and leave groups, ignore you, etc. It's just not what it used to be and it never will. The world has changed I think :/

Edited, Aug 9th 2010 3:05pm by GuardianFaith
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#189 Aug 09 2010 at 4:05 PM Rating: Decent
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I think FFXI's PvP model would work a million times better in FFXIV - so I'm all for a battleground/arena/ballista type PvP in FFXIV especially with the flexibility we have in developing our characters this time around, there is no such thing as a "dedicated" PvP build or dedicated PvE build - you can switch between them within minutes with stat re-allocation and ability choice. Also, in an arena type PvP they can tweak certain things to build balance within that instance, therefore not affecting PvE play at all. I agree with Mikhaila, if PvP was ever a core part of FFXI and now FFXIV I would've never played either one.
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#190 Feb 06 2010 at 11:41 PM Rating: Good
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shintasama wrote:

PvP: the developers of FFXIV (who are the same people who made FFXI), have explicitly stated that their overwhelming focus will be on PvE (like FFXI, whether you agree that this is a good decision or not), and people shouldn't expect anything more than the same sort of "sports" (Team v Team, ex: ballista/brenner) PvP content, and probably not even that to start out with. If this is a deal breaker for whoever, they should probably start looking at other games now, instead of sitting here wasting time starting fights about how they wish FFXIV would be more like ____ PvP MMMO.


Let me bring this to light again, as this wasn't the only time this was stated in the thread. If I could quote it again and again without repercussions, I would. I don't know how many times it needs to be said, but apparently some people just aren't getting it. One more time for good measure?

The DEVS for FFXIV have stated that they are creating a PvE focused game, and PvP is a side thought (NOT A PRIORITY AT ALL!!) for them. If it does ever exist in the game, it will be as a "sports" type competition.

In my opinion, this is as it should be. I've stated in yet another FFXIV PvP thread that Final Fantasy, as a series, has as one of its main tenents the concept that people/friends need to work together to accomplish their goals or save the world. PvP has no place in this aside from perhaps the occasional friendly competition, which, guess what? The devs are thinking about implementing.

I know that there's a lot of time to kill before release, which means that there's going to be a lot of speculation and silliness on the forums, but when you're dealing with a topic that the devs have explicitly addressed, it is pointless to try and argue for or wish for something different.

Edited, Feb 6th 2010 10:41pm by Serielley
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