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Simplified Crafting...Follow

#1 Jan 31 2010 at 11:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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Wouldn't it be a great idea?

I was a cook in ffxi from the ps2 launch. It's been ages since I played so please forgive my ingame slangs.

I made fishing balls forever, I would craft them and fish for carp. I would always have my bazaar full of fishing balls and I would always sell out. I kept the AH stuffed with them too. I started out making them for 60 gil and selling them for 200, great profit when having 100,000 gil ingame was huge.

As I progressed I ended up crafting anything 2-3-4-5 levels higher to get skillups that I could either break even on, make a small profit or even NPC dump at a small loss.

When I got to 100+3 I made Pies for the +1's. This was before Sushi was part of the game. It was all Mithkabobs, Chefkabobs and Pies. I sold the +1's at the AH for a huge profit. I used the regular ones in parties, I was a taru...I didn't need extra MP.

But the high end crafting sucked....

Without a Sandy mule, without running around naked minus the cooking gear and a full inventory, full mog house and sending 8 items to myself, listing a full load on the AH for a price nobody would ever pay...it wouldn't have been profitable enough.

It would literally take 2-3 hours of running around to max out my inventory and extended inventory (from creative sources) to give the max yield. Then another 2-3 hours of pointing myself in the right direction in my mog house with my fung-shuei'd up tables and stuff...Heck I couldn't wait for a fire moon, I just crafted non stop.

It shouldn't take that much time and it shouldn't require that much effort.

Have the items available at the guild...buy em and cook em...Done

I swear you spent 99% of the time playing to prepare you for the 1% that was the storyline...
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#2 Jan 31 2010 at 12:04 PM Rating: Excellent
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Either that or have a separate inventory JUST for crafting materials. Like an "ingredients bag." You would be able to put any kind of material (ores, skins, butter, silk, etc.) in this bag without affecting your main inventory space.

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#3 Jan 31 2010 at 12:25 PM Rating: Good
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I'm hoping that crafting will require some skill. I think this has been said/implied in an interview, that the crafting system will be more complex than FFXI.

This might mean that rather than spending all your time getting ingredients and figuring out ways to store all your items, you may be spending more time on the actual crafting itself (which is a good thing).

#4 Jan 31 2010 at 12:47 PM Rating: Decent
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I also think that every zone should have a couple of outpost/warp points.

If you have already been there, you should be able to go there without a chocobo. I don't think I am the only guy that got sick of going to LS events in sky and the half hour travel time that was required. It wasn't even the 3000 gil for the chocobo that bothered me, it was the time it took to get there.

I had max level chocobo digging, so I didn't mind the chocobo ride...but the time I wasted travelling in ffxi was insane. They better fix that.

In my opinion if you have been there naturally, you should be able to return there...maybe even for a set fee depending on the distance. I would have paid 2500 gil to warp to sky...heck I would have paid 50k.
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#5 Jan 31 2010 at 1:08 PM Rating: Good
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And... have everything STACK!

I really hated those items that didn't. Like bottles of juice...
#6 Jan 31 2010 at 1:27 PM Rating: Good
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Yes, let us take gathering and economic clout away from a game that boasts about the interactions between crafters and gatherers and economic clout.

Edited, Jan 31st 2010 11:46am by Kirbster
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#7 Jan 31 2010 at 1:47 PM Rating: Default
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As a high level cook, I didn't really care what I sold my items for at the AH. I always had people lined up to buy them via delivery or from my bazaar. I didn't rely much on the AH.

But other crafts like Goldsmithing were insane on my server (Alexander) a few JP players got to 100+3 and went on a mission to raise the cost of everything. They made it so expensive to level goldsmithing past 60 that I watched it bankrupt several good players.

Some +1 rings were fetching upwards of 5 million gil each and most people needed 2 of them. I don't know about you but even as a level 100+3 cook, it took me a good week to raise that kind of gil. I can't imagine how other people got it...enter IGE and all of the other gil selling companies.

All of the Gil selling, account buying/selling companies were controlled by Square Enix and I do have proof of that. I sold gil all the time in game by paypal to people I knew and the extra's went to IGE at half of the going rate.

When I quit for good, I sold my fully merited fully maxed out BLM for just under $400 and the 28 mil gil I had as my personal fund for just under $200.

When I went to attempt to recover my account 6 months later, oddly enough Square Enix wouldn't recover my account because for some reason I never owned my account and my credit card that I paid my monthly fee's for over 2 years with didn't show up on the account....hmmmm corruption? YES!!

I sat there on the phone with the SE tool telling him that I had the PS2 and that I could give him the MAC address of the PS2 that logged into the account, the IP address I played from and the serial numbers from the FFXI discs that I still have to this day. Plus I had all of my user names, ID's written down in my FFXi book that the discs came in.

I tried calling in 3 times and was denied every time. Proof that SE = IGE

Anybody that things otherwise is just fooling themselves...
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#8 Jan 31 2010 at 1:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Having the items in the store wasn't the issue. Main issue was incredibly limited inventory and mog space. When you want to cook more then one thing or like people said, things that don't stack, it becomes a HUGE investment.

I doubt they will have the same problems as before as they commented about choco's serving a different purpose, perhaps a mobile backpack that you can access your mog house?

But yeah it was a pain and not just cooking. When going mining you have to take fire crystals and the bars you are craftings other mats(so like copper and ... iron? ore). just so you can make a bar that stacks.

SE just wasn't thinking when they decided not having an auto stacking inventory with every possible item stacking(of course armor etc wouldn't).
#9 Jan 31 2010 at 2:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't think I'd call that 'simplified', I'd just call it "sans anachronistic timesinks and 'PS2 limitations'".

I do want the actual process of crafting to be more complex, ala' Vanguard. If we could also keep crafted product relevant in spite of dungeon drops, without taking it too far and turning dungeon drops irrelevant, I'd be a happy camper.




Edited, Jan 31st 2010 3:26pm by Zemzelette
#10 Jan 31 2010 at 4:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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I agree that inventory was a problem in FFXI and I imagine they will fix it with FFXIV. The problem I see with simplifying the crafting system is that it would make crafting less profitable. It they make crafting quick and easy, everyone will be max level in crafts in no time at all.

In having crafts as actual jobs in FFXIV, I think it would make sense to have crafting even MORE challenging and labor intensive than FFXI. For example, I'm hoping that the alchemy class has to go out into the world and actually find and harvest their materials, similar to how Elder Scrolls: Oblivion did it. Maybe even have some potion effects locked until you reach a certain level. Ooooh wouldn't it be awesome if we could combine effects to make unique items? Haha I'm psyching myself up...
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#11 Jan 31 2010 at 4:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Whatever they end up doing, please for the love of all that's good and holy DO NOT MAKE THE MOST EXPENSIVE CRAFT BECOME OBSOLETE.

After blowing all that gil getting my Goldsmithing to 100, they put in all those rare/ex jewelery. Goldsmithing then became a very mediocre craft. Smithing, Clothcrafting, and Bonecrafting all became better.

I hated SE for it. ; ;
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#12 Jan 31 2010 at 5:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Threx wrote:

Whatever they end up doing, please for the love of all that's good and holy DO NOT MAKE THE MOST EXPENSIVE CRAFT BECOME OBSOLETE.

After blowing all that gil getting my Goldsmithing to 100, they put in all those rare/ex jewelery. Goldsmithing then became a very mediocre craft. Smithing, Clothcrafting, and Bonecrafting all became better.

I hated SE for it. ; ;


but every equipments could be ex/rare as well, why jewelry has to be differed?
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#13 Jan 31 2010 at 6:35 PM Rating: Good
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Given their statement of item durability, I doubt you have much to worry about in terms of crafts becoming obsolete, as it adds a consumable flavor to even the strictest durables craft.

On simplified crafting in terms of localizing all ingredients into one convenient location, I can't see them deviating from the availability of ingredients from FFXI. Think about the way it works in any world with a semblance of reality. You can't grow all types of food in one place, different types of metal ores come from different mines in different regions, even types of textile components differ in location. Sure, you can centralize the ingredients for various crafted materials, but then you have to take into account shipping costs, and a limited supply in a place where demand is high and steady (one stop shopping has quite the draw).

I think the ingredient availability worked fairly well in FFXI, it kept the system as honest as it could be in terms of realism. I agree that space very quickly becomes an issue, and I think it'd be nice (since there are dedicated crafting "jobs") to have available some sort of bulk transportation method (20 gallons of distilled water, 10 pounds millioncorn, 4 sacks of little worms would make quite a few insect balls) so if you had to travel far and wide to get materials, you could gather quite a few and have them shipped to your home location (with some limiting factor be it shipping cost/time or other factors).
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#14 Jan 31 2010 at 6:37 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
All of the Gil selling, account buying/selling companies were controlled by Square Enix and I do have proof of that. I sold gil all the time in game by paypal to people I knew and the extra's went to IGE at half of the going rate.

When I quit for good, I sold my fully merited fully maxed out BLM for just under $400 and the 28 mil gil I had as my personal fund for just under $200.

When I went to attempt to recover my account 6 months later, oddly enough Square Enix wouldn't recover my account because for some reason I never owned my account and my credit card that I paid my monthly fee's for over 2 years with didn't show up on the account....hmmmm corruption? YES!!

I sat there on the phone with the SE tool telling him that I had the PS2 and that I could give him the MAC address of the PS2 that logged into the account, the IP address I played from and the serial numbers from the FFXI discs that I still have to this day. Plus I had all of my user names, ID's written down in my FFXi book that the discs came in.

I tried calling in 3 times and was denied every time. Proof that SE = IGE

Anybody that things otherwise is just fooling themselves...


I won't get into the specifics of my case since it started a dramafest on the FFXI forums a couple years back, but this happened to me as well. The difference was that my account wasn't sold: I canceled it, then someone at their accounts department renewed it on my credit card for a while before changing the information on it other than my name and birthdate (these are unchangeable) retroactive to the account start date and unloading it. Oddly, the new "starting address" was located in Japan.

It was years before I learned of this, and after discovering it upon trying to resub that account ended up going as far up as Micah Bravo (lead of US account services) before getting stonewalled. Even law enforcement from my state got stonewalled by them (I got them involved due to the credit card fraud). In the end they promised to shut down and delete the account, but it is still running around active to this day. If you see an ultra pimped out hume female character named Valarie running around (I believe it is on Odin these days) be sure to slap her around for me. It's been changing servers and changing hands ever since late 2004 and had about a half billion gil nest egg to burn at the time of its theft (pre-inflation).

Do I think that S-E and RMT are in cahoots? No. I do think that RMT has some people on the inside to do their dirtywork, however. If S-E wanted to do RMT they would do it officially rather than let someone else make the profit off of it ... hence Crysta currency in FFXIV. The RMT business generates more income than S-E makes off of subscriptions, so it would make no sense for them to allow someone else to capitalize off of an income stream that they could manipulate so easily.
#15 Jan 31 2010 at 9:43 PM Rating: Good
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Risutusu wrote:
...I sold gil all the time in game by paypal to people I knew and the extra's went to IGE at half of the going rate.

When I quit for good, I sold my fully merited fully maxed out BLM for just under $400 and the 28 mil gil I had as my personal fund for just under $200.

When I went to attempt to recover my account 6 months later



You sir, are a paragon of integrity.
#16 Jan 31 2010 at 10:18 PM Rating: Good
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Better management system for crafting will be really great yes. But too much simplification could ruin it. Take crafting in WoW, it's so simple, too simple. It's dumb.
#17 Feb 01 2010 at 1:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
As a high level cook, I didn't really care what I sold my items for at the AH. I always had people lined up to buy them via delivery or from my bazaar. I didn't rely much on the AH.

But other crafts like Goldsmithing were insane on my server (Alexander) a few JP players got to 100+3 and went on a mission to raise the cost of everything. They made it so expensive to level goldsmithing past 60 that I watched it bankrupt several good players.

Some +1 rings were fetching upwards of 5 million gil each and most people needed 2 of them. I don't know about you but even as a level 100+3 cook, it took me a good week to raise that kind of gil. I can't imagine how other people got it...enter IGE and all of the other gil selling companies.

All of the Gil selling, account buying/selling companies were controlled by Square Enix and I do have proof of that. I sold gil all the time in game by paypal to people I knew and the extra's went to IGE at half of the going rate.

When I quit for good, I sold my fully merited fully maxed out BLM for just under $400 and the 28 mil gil I had as my personal fund for just under $200.

When I went to attempt to recover my account 6 months later, oddly enough Square Enix wouldn't recover my account because for some reason I never owned my account and my credit card that I paid my monthly fee's for over 2 years with didn't show up on the account....hmmmm corruption? YES!!

I sat there on the phone with the SE tool telling him that I had the PS2 and that I could give him the MAC address of the PS2 that logged into the account, the IP address I played from and the serial numbers from the FFXI discs that I still have to this day. Plus I had all of my user names, ID's written down in my FFXi book that the discs came in.

I tried calling in 3 times and was denied every time. Proof that SE = IGE

Anybody that things otherwise is just fooling themselves...


Christ, you are the worst kind of person.

And if you must know, they didn't recover your account because it was probably flagged as a sold account, and the customer rep didn't want to deal with your bullsh*tting since you're more trouble than you're worth.

Edited, Feb 1st 2010 12:30am by Kirbster
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#18 Feb 01 2010 at 2:46 AM Rating: Good
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I don't understand how that story leads to your SE = IGN conclusion.... I'm with Kirbster here.

Edited, Feb 1st 2010 3:47am by jpenguin
#19 Feb 01 2010 at 10:33 AM Rating: Decent
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jpenguin wrote:
I don't understand how that story leads to your SE = IGN conclusion.... I'm with Kirbster here.

Edited, Feb 1st 2010 3:47am by jpenguin


And I agree, but back on topic, so long as we don't lose materials again, I will be happy. Farm for hours get the things I need and let me make it, but if it's a bad synth. Let it be of lesser quality than just breaking and losing every f'ing thing.
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#20 Feb 01 2010 at 11:08 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think there are many different ways to improve "crafting".

Comparing to crafting in other MMO's one point is a crafting-interface, that would be a very nice thing. Crafting a batch of synths and the need to input the items for each single synth is pretty meh, also recipes you can do shown in the UI would be nice addition.

Another thing to spice up crafting is resource quality like in Star Wars Galaxies.

In SWG there are different type of resources (different sorts water, different sorts of corn, different sorts of metal and so on) and those had different stats which affect the outcome of a synth. The different resources would only be up for a specific time and it would be gone and could only be "harvested" again with special onetime-use items to get a specific amount of any resource that ever "spawned" on the server.
This really added "content" for the 4 trader professions, you allways needed to be looking if something good spawned and then to find a good place to get from those mats as much as you could get.

Since crafting will be like its own job/class to skill/level maybe its going to be something similiar, maybe not that depth with resource quality but maybe a direction where they may be going.

In LotRO the crafting was a little meh, consumeables not that bad as equipment the higher you got, of course some crafted items were very decent but still.

Crafting in Aion got some nice ideas too with learning recipes from scrolls and I liked the crafting quests to raise your skills.
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#21 Feb 02 2010 at 6:41 AM Rating: Good
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frodito wrote:
crafting quests to raise your skills.


Hmm, never thought about that. Could be nice.
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#22 Feb 18 2010 at 2:53 PM Rating: Decent
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I liked the randomly-learned recipes from WoW, too. It is a shame that only Alchemy had them. Getting really rare recipes just from crafting other random things was a great way (at least early on) to make a lot of money on things no one else had. This would be a great addition to crafting in FFXIV.

The one thing that bothered me the most about the crafting in FFXI was from the very early days, when no one really knew what was going on. The problem was all ridiculous theories about what affected crafting and what didn't. All the different elemental days, all the different things in the house, the phases of the moon, the day of the week, the direction your character faced, etc. I quit before anyone ever really proved concretely if any of that really mattered. The problem, at least back then, was that there really was no way to know because you could never really isolate all the variables. The real problem was, if any of those things really did improve your crafting, how insanely stupid would that be??

The other main problem for me was that there was never any way to know that every recipe was discovered. There could be crazy recipes out there that no one has ever thought to mix together. (Side note, back in the day, there were HUGE conspiracy theories that, before the NA release, the Japanese had figured out out do craft all sorts of really rare things that they never told anyone about but flooded the AH with at insane prices.)

One final note, to the person who complained about JP goldsmiths flooding the market with crazy overpriced things that everyone needed, back when the game was new, we all assumed that was RMT people doing that. If there was something that everyone wanted and were willing to pay 5M gil for, the RMT could buy them for 500k, then someone would pay $20 for the 5M gil, and the RMT profited.
#23 Feb 19 2010 at 12:15 PM Rating: Decent
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All I ask for is a recipe book and less chance to fail.

Adding an interactive menu system whilst you craft similar to Vanguard would be cool also. I also liked the crafting quests in Aion although felt it was too easy.

What would be cool is if characters could learn new recipes depending on a secondary skill, say for example a leather crafter with alechemy skills would have the chance to learn a different recipe to a leather crafter with blacksmithing.

Perhaps one would have and +mp boost and the other a +def boost.

Edited, Feb 19th 2010 1:19pm by Diakar
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#24 Feb 19 2010 at 12:52 PM Rating: Good
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Interactive crafting was added to FFXI when they added the ability for 4 people assist in the crafting of a single item. There's an array of levers and such you had to pull and buttons to push at the right time or else the recipe failed. I like this idea, though as was typical for FFXI, the way they did it appears to be HUGELY complicated.

Also, FFXI had some recipes that you had to have X level in, say, goldsmithing and Y level in smithing or else your chance to fail was too high. So you had like an 80% chance to succeed with 90 goldsmithing and 60 smithing, but if you had 90 goldsmithing and 0 smithing, your chance to succeed was <1%.

Edited, Feb 19th 2010 12:53pm by Maarg
#25 Feb 19 2010 at 1:48 PM Rating: Decent
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akelah wrote:
And... have everything STACK!

I really hated those items that didn't. Like bottles of juice...


I always liked how the 30 min food stacked and the instant/3 min bonuses didn't. Sort of like SE figured out all parties needed hours of food and just minutes of refresh.
#26 Feb 19 2010 at 6:07 PM Rating: Good
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I loved crafting in FFXI. Lost or gained money, didn't matter to me. Since crafting is going to be classes now, and FFXIV is about custimation, I wounder if we be able to put random stuff together and try to craft it into some item. You can learn new crafts just as you randomly make item, + the normal crafts you can still make.
#27 Feb 19 2010 at 7:19 PM Rating: Good
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I swear you spent 99% of the time playing to prepare you for the 1% that was the storyline...


yeah, this is something that i think theyre really working to address in 14. or at least i hope theyre working to address it.

simplifying the crafting in 14 would go a long way towards it. something of a happy medium between WoW's "no-fail" crafting model and the "risk vs reward" style that 11 had would be nice.
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#28 Feb 19 2010 at 9:43 PM Rating: Decent
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On topic-

Inventory management was terrible in FFXI. It was clunky and a waste of time. Having to log back and forth to clear your mail was so slow and time consuming.

That being said, I did enjoy the fact that crafting was difficult, and ultimately rewarding (if you were smart). You put in the effort, and over a long period of time to ascend to a level where your services are of significant value.

IMO take out the timesinks, and take the complex system and bring it into the modern day. If anyone can do it, SE can do it :)



Off topic--

Risutusu wrote:

All of the Gil selling, account buying/selling companies were controlled by Square Enix and I do have proof of that. I sold gil all the time in game by paypal to people I knew and the extra's went to IGE at half of the going rate.

When I quit for good, I sold my fully merited fully maxed out BLM for just under $400 and the 28 mil gil I had as my personal fund for just under $200.

When I went to attempt to recover my account 6 months later, oddly enough Square Enix wouldn't recover my account because for some reason I never owned my account and my credit card that I paid my monthly fee's for over 2 years with didn't show up on the account....hmmmm corruption? YES!!

I sat there on the phone with the SE tool telling him that I had the PS2 and that I could give him the MAC address of the PS2 that logged into the account, the IP address I played from and the serial numbers from the FFXI discs that I still have to this day. Plus I had all of my user names, ID's written down in my FFXi book that the discs came in.

I tried calling in 3 times and was denied every time. Proof that SE = IGE

Anybody that things otherwise is just fooling themselves...


ROFL. It's all a big conspiracy. We're all fools... Not the tool up to his neck in shady MMO dealings.

Edited, Feb 19th 2010 10:46pm by Jordster
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#29 Feb 20 2010 at 5:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Inventory management was terrible in FFXI. It was clunky and a waste of time. Having to log back and forth to clear your mail was so slow and time consuming.

That being said, I did enjoy the fact that crafting was difficult, and ultimately rewarding (if you were smart). You put in the effort, and over a long period of time to ascend to a level where your services are of significant value.


This!
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