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getting around easy in ff14Follow

#1 Feb 06 2010 at 2:21 PM Rating: Decent
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not sure if many topics on this , but ff11 started very hard to travel around and got whole lot easier over the years to get around the world.
do you think the game will cut down in unneeded running around to get from point a to point b.
any suggestions on what people like to see in this game over traveling about.
they probley posted something about this on comments they said but i not sure as havent read all info on ff14 so far but sure there be more over next few months.
also dare i say i heard of this other online game called world of something that uses zones that allow different groups enter , for example this could mean more than 1 dynamis at a time probley wont happen but be cool if for something like a buring circle they could let anyone sign up from all worlds to join a group so they can go into that zone together and battle , this would save endless searching for partys which has been a problem for some in ff11.

Edited, Feb 6th 2010 3:21pm by maxwinterstorm
#2 Feb 06 2010 at 2:32 PM Rating: Good
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For me personally I think having a relatively large travel time is important in creating an illusion in my mind of a large world. I know a lot of people simply want to get to whatever they are doing and get it over with and I think that's ok in some instances but not in all. They shouldn't just keep the travel time long though...I think offering some entertaining action while traveling is nice. FFXI started doing it with the pirate invasions on the boats and the quests in the airship but I think they should have expanded on those ideas.
#3 Feb 06 2010 at 3:07 PM Rating: Decent
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I think i read somewhere that tele crystals were going to be a big deal in 14. I'm guessing every town will have one or something, but if they have a lot of tele from zone to zone it will make it easier to travel and easier to get parties, you can actually invite someone from several continents away if everywhere is a 5 minute run to a teleporter.
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#4 Feb 06 2010 at 4:48 PM Rating: Good
There was a time when it seemed that all MMO devs had their hearts and minds stuck on the notion that extended travel times for everything was a way to enhance their game. Whether it was to preserve a sense of scale to the world or simply to keep people playing longer, that line of thinking has since been mashed into the ground. It has become important for developers to look at design (for all things, not just travel) from the point of view of both the new player as well as the person who has been playing the game regularly for a year or more. Based on what the FFXIV devs have said, they understand this more now than they did with FFXI and I expect to see more convenient travel options in place that will not take away significantly from the sense of world scale but will also lesson those occurrences of players saying to themselves, "I want/should/need to go to <place>, but it just takes too **** long to get there."
#5 Feb 06 2010 at 5:37 PM Rating: Good
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We'll likely see something similar to the outpost warps where you must visit an area's crystal first and then you can teleport to it from other/adjacent crystals. I hope they spruce it up a bit and have these crystals in small towns/villages scattered through out the world. The outpost buildings were boring. Just a building you can't access with two guards that don't do anything =/
#6 Feb 06 2010 at 6:37 PM Rating: Decent
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While I agree travel is necessary, what I think they can do instead of making you run from say Sandy to Selbina for a quest. They localize the quests more until you get to the level of easy travel.
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#7 Feb 06 2010 at 8:23 PM Rating: Default
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From what it seemed like from talks and screens, it looks like a ff12ish system of warping around.
#8 Feb 07 2010 at 1:03 AM Rating: Default
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I thought I read somewhere that chocobos were going to have different roles in FFXIV. I'm not sure if it was already talked about but does anyone know what those might be? I really liked the idea of the chocobo whistle but it was a huge pain in the *** to actually have to raise/feed/care for the chocobo in the beginning just to get the whistle. I ended up going on vacation for two weeks and when I came back child services had stepped in charging me with neglect.
#9 Feb 07 2010 at 2:06 AM Rating: Good
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I think unlocking travel option is the way to go. It allows people to experience all the sight and sounds for the first adventuring but cuts down the needless travel time when it's your 50th trip there. FFXI had outpost and teleport crystals that did this well. Also the rent/personal chocobo helps too.
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#10 Feb 07 2010 at 3:09 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm sure we'll gradually unlock different methods of travel as time passes. They wouldn't want us being able to teleport to every corner of the world at level 1. :P
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#11 Feb 07 2010 at 9:34 AM Rating: Decent
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Also keep in mind its a viable cash sink. Portal costs x .

- Xxar
#12 Feb 07 2010 at 10:57 AM Rating: Decent
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xxar wrote:
Also keep in mind its a viable cash sink. Portal costs x .

- Xxar


From the gameplay vids, it didn't look like it cost any money. Then again it may.
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#13 Feb 08 2010 at 5:45 AM Rating: Default
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1 as long as i dont have to spend hours of travelling
2 dont make it tedious
3 dont make it too hard to get around
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#14 Feb 08 2010 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
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flukedrk wrote:
xxar wrote:
Also keep in mind its a viable cash sink. Portal costs x .

- Xxar


From the gameplay vids, it didn't look like it cost any money. Then again it may.


I believe they said instead of costing money it will cost abilities. The more you use the crystals, the more your stats are affected. I'm sure 1-2 ports in an hour wont affect you (especially since they have 30 min leves).
#15 Feb 08 2010 at 2:20 PM Rating: Good
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Something akin to the OP warps in XI would be ideal. As I stated in the other thread:

I've always found that even slightly more than moderate use of fast travel in games tend to greatly shrink and de-immersify what would normally feel like a large and expansive world.
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#16 Feb 08 2010 at 2:55 PM Rating: Good
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Kirbster wrote:
Something akin to the OP warps in XI would be ideal. As I stated in the other thread:

I've always found that even slightly more than moderate use of fast travel in games tend to greatly shrink and de-immersify what would normally feel like a large and expansive world.


Very true, I think OP warps were great, but it sucked you could only use them when you had control of a zone. If you could have always used them I think OP warps would have been perfect.

One thing I would prefer is more town options like selbina. Its nice being able to take a quick 5 min run to a town area to afk or log out at. It sucks logging into a game and being at 20% hp because you spawned on top of a mob.
#17 Feb 08 2010 at 3:10 PM Rating: Default
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Here's a weird question if you don't mind me chiming in real briefly. Do you guys feel SE should be using different animals aside from the Chocobo as transportation around the world? EX: Horse, etc.?
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#18 Feb 08 2010 at 3:33 PM Rating: Good
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Kirbster wrote:

Something akin to the OP warps in XI would be ideal. As I stated in the other thread:

I've always found that even slightly more than moderate use of fast travel in games tend to greatly shrink and de-immersify what would normally feel like a large and expansive world.


Yes, but there has to be some sort of a balance. I know what you are talking about with the fast travel because everyone and their mother has complained about it in a number of games - but think about how ridiculously long those games that incorporated it would have been without it. Besides, you are never forced to use those options. No one was holding a gun to your head saying thou shalt fast travel to cloud ruler temple. Things like that are optional and most of the time only accessible after you have visited the location, which is similar to how XI is now.

It's good to have options to get somewhere fast. Complaining that it detracts from your personal sense of scale in the world is a joke, when you can choose to hoof it if you so desire. Don't lets be silly.
#19 Feb 08 2010 at 3:41 PM Rating: Good
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Torrence wrote:
Kirbster wrote:

Something akin to the OP warps in XI would be ideal. As I stated in the other thread:

I've always found that even slightly more than moderate use of fast travel in games tend to greatly shrink and de-immersify what would normally feel like a large and expansive world.


Yes, but there has to be some sort of a balance. I know what you are talking about with the fast travel because everyone and their mother has complained about it in a number of games - but think about how ridiculously long those games that incorporated it would have been without it. Besides, you are never forced to use those options. No one was holding a gun to your head saying thou shalt fast travel to cloud ruler temple. Things like that are optional and most of the time only accessible after you have visited the location, which is similar to how XI is now.

It's good to have options to get somewhere fast. Complaining that it detracts from your personal sense of scale in the world is a joke, when you can choose to hoof it if you so desire. Don't lets be silly.


Which is why I said that XI's OP warps were ideal. That's a good balance.

And let's face it, given the option to move fast, people will move fast, even if it kills the immersion, and then they'll feel cheated or bored for not being immersed. Nobody will take the slow route, because they will be at a disadvantage. It's like giving people a bunch of console commands that give you gil/skill/etc. You can't just say 'oh, nobody's FORCING you to use these console commands.'

Forcing these sorts of reasonable limitations are necessary for the sake of game design and immersion.

Edited, Feb 8th 2010 1:47pm by Kirbster
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#20 Feb 08 2010 at 3:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Kirbster wrote:

Which is why I said that XI's OP warps were ideal. That's a good balance.

And let's face it, given the option to move fast, people will move fast, even if it kills the immersion, and then they'll feel cheated or bored for not being immersed. Forcing these sorts of limits are necessary for these kinds of things.


I disagree, because the number one reason over the years that people have left FFXI is:

"XYZ takes too long". Insert a number of XI tasks ranging from getting a wanted drop to getting to a location to getting a party together.

The limitations were forced at the beginning of FFXI, they didn't work out too well, and now that there are more options to travel and do other things, the people who stuck around are happier. I don't want to see a regression on this particular issue, because we have already seen the result of that way of thinking.
#21 Feb 08 2010 at 3:53 PM Rating: Good
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You are disagreeing with something I never said. I never said that things should take a painfully long time to do. I said that making things too easily accessible would make the game suffer just as much. They're two sides of the same coin.
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#22 Feb 08 2010 at 3:56 PM Rating: Decent
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But what is your definition of too easily accessible, then? You cited Fast Travel specifically when it's no different than the options in FFXI as it stands right now, they are just called by different names, so what exactly is "too accessible"?

Exploring a dungeon looking for treasure or monsters to fight is immersive. Standing on a boat for 20 minutes to get there, not so much.

Edit - I mean, is anyone really bored of FFXI, because it's easier to get around now? Less time spent on things like getting someone means more time spent on doing what you went there for.

Edited, Feb 8th 2010 4:58pm by Torrence
#23 Feb 08 2010 at 4:08 PM Rating: Good
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'Too accessible' to me, is having very little to no travel time to almost any location you want. I loved the OP system because it still required you to explore and find the OP points yourself, and they were still spread far enough from each other and only one per region, that they still required a bit of travel.

Also, while the boat ride may have been a little long, the first time I rode, it was still a great and memorable experience.

You seem to think that I'm not content with XI's fast-travel as it is now. I think it's great. Something got mistranslated along the way, I think.

Edited, Feb 8th 2010 2:10pm by Kirbster
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#24 Feb 08 2010 at 4:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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It really is interesting seeing two people arguing the same point in different terms. Quick travel like wow where you could hop on a bird and AFK hurts immersion. Being able to fly just as fast on a mount doesn't hurt immersion as much, because you are still actively in control.

I think that is the most effective way to stay immersed is giving you the control of all aspects of travel, whether we teleport there or run there.
#25 Feb 08 2010 at 4:33 PM Rating: Good
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burtonsnow wrote:

I think that is the most effective way to stay immersed is giving you the control of all aspects of travel, whether we teleport there or run there.


A good point and observation!
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#26 Feb 08 2010 at 4:55 PM Rating: Good
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burtonsnow wrote:
It really is interesting seeing two people arguing the same point in different terms. Quick travel like wow where you could hop on a bird and AFK hurts immersion. Being able to fly just as fast on a mount doesn't hurt immersion as much, because you are still actively in control.

I think that is the most effective way to stay immersed is giving you the control of all aspects of travel, whether we teleport there or run there.


Not to beat a dead horse, but I agree with this point whole-heartedly. I definitely enjoy boat rides and airships rides from time to time in FFXI, especially when I'm with friends and an NM spawns and we decide to do something stupid. It added to a lot of my memories of the game. I also think that there is a balance that can be achieved because you are going to have naysayers on either side no matter what, so I'm impressed people in this thread have managed to strike a balance among themselves, proving it can be done among the masses as well, I hope.

I thought the transportation in FFXI was almost ideal. The OP warps were a great idea, although I do agree it sucked when you weren't in control of the region. I also thought the teleporting abilities were faily distributed throughout the game and the chocobo's were a reasonable speed and accessible. I think it would be very interesting to have different types of mounts in the game, such as in AoC and WoW because it would make it more personable. In AoC I had a horse as well as a mammoth when I first started playing and it definitely made it more entertaining.
#27 Feb 08 2010 at 5:01 PM Rating: Default
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I really liked foot racing other Linkshells to Tiamat, Cerberus and Khimaira. My heart was beating while trying to pick up all of my gear from my moogle and when i finally start making my way there it's like: "holy, i'm going to have a heart attack!". When i finally arrive in the zone i get a party invite full of my Linkshells best mages (brdx2, whm, rdm, (PLD-me-)) then i claim the HNM while i'm still nervous as **** but i always went really silent on vent when i started solo tanking because that was the only way i could put out complete focus until i've calmed down. Then my co-tank arrives around 15 minutes later but there was no way he could pull hate from me so all of the Samurai' line up and TA gekko/kasha the **** out of him which was really funny to watch. Ok. end of story~
#28 Feb 08 2010 at 6:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Personally, I wouldn't mind the large, vast zones and the long travel times. As long as there are things to do along the way. FFXI didn't pull this off very well at first, the zones used to be very barren and large for no particular reason.

But if there's something to keep the excitement going while travelling, then I'm all for retaining large zones.
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#29 Feb 08 2010 at 8:02 PM Rating: Decent
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double-post

Edited, Feb 8th 2010 9:03pm by KaneKitty
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#30 Feb 08 2010 at 8:03 PM Rating: Decent
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"For me personally I think having a relatively large travel time is important in creating an illusion in my mind of a large world. I know a lot of people simply want to get to whatever they are doing and get it over with and I think that's ok in some instances but not in all. They shouldn't just keep the travel time long though...I think offering some entertaining action while traveling is nice. FFXI started doing it with the pirate invasions on the boats and the quests in the airship but I think they should have expanded on those ideas."

/thread; couldn't agree more with... all of this, actually.
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#31 Feb 08 2010 at 8:08 PM Rating: Default
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AureliusSir the Irrelevant wrote:
There was a time when it seemed that all MMO devs had their hearts and minds stuck on the notion that extended travel times for everything was a way to enhance their game. Whether it was to preserve a sense of scale to the world or simply to keep people playing longer, that line of thinking has since been mashed into the ground. It has become important for developers to look at design (for all things, not just travel) from the point of view of both the new player as well as the person who has been playing the game regularly for a year or more. Based on what the FFXIV devs have said, they understand this more now than they did with FFXI and I expect to see more convenient travel options in place that will not take away significantly from the sense of world scale but will also lesson those occurrences of players saying to themselves, "I want/should/need to go to <place>, but it just takes too **** long to get there."


I don't have a lot of MMO experience so could you humor me by explaining a few travel possibilities. The only method I've seen that isn't a time sink in both RPG's and MMORPG's are teleport or warp spells/items. I really liked the airships in FFXI, but as Jeuno became a ghost town and teleporting options increased, airships weren't needed any longer. The Astral candy teleports were a great way of getting around the ToAU regions. It appears that a crystal teleporting method will shuttle us around the region. I remember reading an interview where SE said our lovable Chocobo friends won't be a mode of transportation either. So I'm at a loss of words, any ideas?
#32 Feb 09 2010 at 12:51 AM Rating: Good
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
I don't have a lot of MMO experience so could you humor me by explaining a few travel possibilities. The only method I've seen that isn't a time sink in both RPG's and MMORPG's are teleport or warp spells/items. I really liked the airships in FFXI, but as Jeuno became a ghost town and teleporting options increased, airships weren't needed any longer. The Astral candy teleports were a great way of getting around the ToAU regions. It appears that a crystal teleporting method will shuttle us around the region. I remember reading an interview where SE said our lovable Chocobo friends won't be a mode of transportation either. So I'm at a loss of words, any ideas?


Personal mounts are very common these days. They're a convenience that players love and they can represent a very reasonable and effective currency sink, since players are frequently willing to pay a relatively substantial amount of in-game currency for the privilege. If designed to accommodate it from the beginning, flying mounts are also an extremely fun and effective way of getting around in outdoor areas (and there's basis for it in the FF series). Player spells to summon or warp players are a huge boon for groups of all sizes (imagine how many hours of thumb twiddling it would have saved in FFXI if shells had been able to summon people to Sky, Sea, or Xarcabard for various different events (assuming players met the criteria where applicable to enter those areas, of course)). Accessible options to return home that don't come at a price are also extremely common. Options to travel from one place you have previously visited to another place you have previously visited with a minimum of hassle (though not necessarily instantly) are also well received across the board.

FFXI incorporated a lot of those options but in a way that could have been more effective from a convenience standpoint. Location of outpost warp NPCs in cities was frequently out of the way and while not necessarily a hassle to get to, they could have been located better. BLM Warp II was fine...just a shame that you had to pay for the quick trip home in the absence of a BLM. WHM teleports, assuming you had a WHM or /WHM to offer them, were okay but usually still left you with a chocobo ride at your destination in order to finish the trip. I stopped playing FFXI shortly after chocobo raising was introduced but my understanding of them as a personal mount was that the option was restricted...some would say unnecessarily...and that those restrictions didn't really preserve any quality aspects of the game.

It's not necessary to have instant travel to wherever you want to go whenever you want to be there, but at some point travel becomes less about exploration and more about tedium for a lot of players. The larger and more expansive the game world is, the more developers have to look at how players are going to navigate that world. Again it comes down to the point of view of both the new player and the veteran.
#33 Feb 09 2010 at 8:14 AM Rating: Decent
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some great comment on the thread , i like the outpost system as well and have memories of the boat travel and running from bastok to jeuno the first time.
i prefer the system in wotg over the origonal outpost system because just have to vist area then can go there.

one of thing i dont like about travel is trying meet partys in some areas.

a good example where they could improve things in my view was in stuff like
Promyvion, you go all the way through dangerous dungeon hugging the walls.
I admit it gets easier the more you used to the zone but first few times its not so great, anyway you go all way to top provided one of party does not die then you do a burning circle fight.

lets say your party fails you all get wiped out or you raise and one party member disconnects never to return you then have go all way back to town reparty up and attempt it again, it be much eaiser if you just have a teleport device you activate at the top that link to bottom level that one you get to top you can warp straight to the bc room, or a warp each level you accend so you can help other people that havent got the warp yet.

I hated last mission of ACP (up the tower with lv restrict, get item, fight in bc, lose bc, lose item go up the tower again) and still havent completed it and the travel issue put me off i will do it sometime but issues like this are just not fun in a game.

so if it promyvion, that ACP mission or something similar i really hope they can improve the issue in ff14.
#34 Feb 09 2010 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good
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There is always trial and error/testing by real players to see what routes will be taken and what is perceived as a long travel time. At games launch there will be some travel issues, there always are. Gradually most of these will be fixed with patches, expansions, etc. It will be a bigger improvement over the long times that ffxi had at launch though for sure.
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