Forum Settings
       
This Forum is Read Only

Tent citiesFollow

#1 Feb 08 2010 at 12:48 AM Rating: Good
**
353 posts
While reading, I saw someone mention that they didn't want armor durability to affect stats too quickly. (s)He raised the point that since we have a tendency to optimize our damage output / e-peen, it would encourage very short party times due to people running back after only 10% of the durability was gone just to get the +1 STR back. I would have to agree, except i think we the players could solve this issue as a matter of the economy.
IF people can perform repairs out in the field, would you support a sort of temporary structure (i.e. a tent like stand) that a player could set up to designate that that player was offering services to others?
Think about it, imagine you are partying and killing some sheep. Instead of running all the way back to the nearest city to find either a PC or NPC repairman for your gear (since the +1 str is vital to your damage) you notice that nearby is a small camp. In this camp you find a small linkshell or party of crafters. There's a cook, a tanner, and a smith or two there who are willing to trade you repairs for some of your drops and/or gil. They get to skill up on your repairs, and you are saved the problem of constantly interrupting your grindfest to run back to town.
The more difficult / high-level areas would have similar camps, since they need to repair higher class armor to skill up now, and you need a higher class crafter to repair your stuff.

I do see a potential problem with hogging of space, or of other abuses. But it does bring to mind a cool scene in my head.
____________________________
My brother is an Emo-DRK, I am a kind PLD.
Go figure.

Monks do it with their hands.
Scholars do it in the classroom.
Puppetmasters do it with dolls.
Ninjas do it and then disappear.
Thieves do it then run away.
#2 Feb 08 2010 at 1:33 AM Rating: Excellent
*
103 posts
Is it really efficient to keep going back over and over to repair your armor? People will wait until the group is over to repair it. Even so, I'd assume that you could repair stuff on the field, like how you can craft on the field in FFXI.
#3 Feb 08 2010 at 1:40 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
*
123 posts
I think it's a great idea, and it would be nice if you could put up a sign or create a name for your business and design your tent. In cities they could easily create a giant open area where you could assemble tents. They could keep track of tent occupancy, so if you are vying for a spot in Ul'dah but someone's tent has been there for ages unoccupied, you can call a GM and they can check to see how long it has been, and remove the tent. It would be awesome if they had a lot of these designated spots, so higher level players could take advantage of higher crafting skill for more experienced players in dangerous areas.
#4 Feb 08 2010 at 2:16 AM Rating: Excellent
Sage
**
372 posts
I depends on how often you would have to do this. If I was in a party and this kept happening I would be getting very frustrated. Even if it happened every hour it would be too much - especially if you were planning to go for another few hours yet.

I don't mind durability wearing but I don't think it should be so extreme as to require these kinds of camps.
#5 Feb 08 2010 at 7:09 AM Rating: Good
*
170 posts
This is a major pet peeve of mine even for FFXI.

Most people don't realize that taking a break to run back to town for food, sanction, etc. actually lowers the exp you get per hour versus the extra exp you would recieve from the bonus you get from running back to town.

I feel this will be the same (if not worse) with armor durability in FFXIV. Will the extra 10% exp you will get from having all your armor at 100% be worth more then the 20% exp your losing due to downtime during the repair? I would say not, but most people don't think of this when min/maxing.



Edited, Feb 8th 2010 8:10am by EklmForever
#6 Feb 08 2010 at 7:28 AM Rating: Good
*
107 posts
This is a great idea. It was done in the old Star Wars Galaxies game. There were 2 classes that could make tents and campsites. Scouts could make small camps and Rangers could make field bases with limited crafting devices, and places for doctors to heal people.

I can see the Discipline of the Land maybe doing something like setting up a safe camp area.
____________________________
FFXI Hazero, Elvan PLD, retiered.
CoV, King Ghidora, Dominator retired
AoC, Mecha Ghidora, Dark Templar retired
Tabula Rasa, Super King, Grenadier retired
SWG, Hazero Ghidora, retired
DCUO, Crushlordian Earth Tank Retired
#7 Feb 08 2010 at 8:13 AM Rating: Default
*
181 posts
Portable items that can instantly repair any weapon or armor. Enhanced durability benefits when getting fixed by a blacksmith, so it won't break as fast with this method maybe. NPC in town will fix your item (confirmed) but it probably won't be as good as a fix from a skilled blacksmith. I bet there will be a player that just happens to be a Blacksmith at every major adventure gather together hub, like Aethertypes so i wouldn't worry about having access to a quick weapon or armor fix. Personally i'm going to to start off as a blacksmith so i don't have to worry about getting a good piece of armor stolen later on. Item stealing with the promise of a fix.. Hmm, this won't happen that much but i can see people stealing good items with this way.


Edited, Feb 8th 2010 10:14am by KeeperOfTheStaff
#8 Feb 08 2010 at 8:33 AM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
656 posts
great idea, but i dont see that happening

plus, the equipments might just have decrease in durabilities, but not decrase in stats.
____________________________
モスタル


#9 Feb 08 2010 at 8:46 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
630 posts
One of the issues that I have with this method is that sometimes the players in the tent town will be afk, making it impossible to repair...I think there should always be an option to NPC repair, maybe just give more incentive to go through a player, such as a 30 min buff.
#10 Feb 08 2010 at 9:22 AM Rating: Excellent
Repressed Memories
******
20,812 posts
Almost certainly wouldn't be a problem. Every game that I know of that has armor durability has it as a binary condition, i.e. your armor is either at 100% effectiveness or it is "broken" and thus you might as well not wear anything in that slot. A person whose armor is at half or even a quarter durability is still 100% functional; this player has the same stats as someone wearing the armor at full durability.

Armor durability isn't supposed to be a realistic feature. It's supposed to be a realistic way to insert a death penalty and money sink. There is no reason to reduce that stats your armor gives as it begins to wear slightly.

Ideally, repairing armor is never something you would have to go out of your way to do. It is just a maintenance you do whenever you happen to be in town. The party should be over or your loot bags should be full long, long before you would need to repair to prevent a penalty. The only people who would ever break their armor in the field are absent minded players who have forgotten to repair it just once in the last 10 visit they have made to town.

Edited, Feb 8th 2010 9:23am by Allegory
#11 Feb 08 2010 at 9:39 AM Rating: Good
Sage
**
372 posts
Quote:
Ideally, repairing armor is never something you would have to go out of your way to do. It is just a maintenance you do whenever you happen to be in town. The party should be over or your loot bags should be full long, long before you would need to repair to prevent a penalty. The only people who would ever break their armor in the field are absent minded players who have forgotten to repair it just once in the last 10 visit they have made to town.


This!

/clap
#12 Feb 08 2010 at 11:18 AM Rating: Good
I think that there are two issues at play here. The first would be the viability of the crafter tent cities. I'd have no problem with that. The way it's put forward, however (ie. to address scaling stat decay on gear) is another matter. Scaling stat decay on gear would be a horrible thing to implement because it would be just as people have said: Mikey the Lalafel Thunder-eater dies in a flurry of yak fur and the loss in stats from the durability loss is unbearable for him and as such, he feels compelled to run off and repair. It would also lead to a situation where tanks would feel compelled (and/or be expected to) carry around alternate sets of gear to reduce repair related downtime, since tanking in MMOs with durability loss systems means that you can be doing everything right and still see constant wear and tear on all of your gear.
#13 Feb 08 2010 at 12:06 PM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
38 posts
I have a feeling this is where you might find a crafters role in parties built for combat and skill ups.

I think if you want to form a skill up party, you may have a tank, healer, one or a few dd, combat mage support etc, and possibly a crafter or two or more to maintain things so your party can stay functioning for a longer period of time without having to restock/resupply etc...

The combat classes will get their weapon skillups and the crafters will be getting consistent skill up in w/e craft they are.

(however im sure in between battles and what not, people can switch to their craft class and repair equip as needed, which im sure will happen in time.)

True we don't yet know how fast equipment degrades either, but i have a feeling it will be relatively quick. And we don't know what classes will be responsible for repairing what.

Also
How a crafting class functions in skill up groups may be different and beneficial in its own right compared to when switching to a crafting class in between battles to maintain equipment.


____________________________

COGS
LV75 NIN, LV 75 DRK
Pandemonium Server
#14 Feb 08 2010 at 12:39 PM Rating: Good
COGSs wrote:
I have a feeling this is where you might find a crafters role in parties built for combat and skill ups.

I think if you want to form a skill up party, you may have a tank, healer, one or a few dd, combat mage support etc, and possibly a crafter or two or more to maintain things so your party can stay functioning for a longer period of time without having to restock/resupply etc...

The combat classes will get their weapon skillups and the crafters will be getting consistent skill up in w/e craft they are.

(however im sure in between battles and what not, people can switch to their craft class and repair equip as needed, which im sure will happen in time.)

True we don't yet know how fast equipment degrades either, but i have a feeling it will be relatively quick. And we don't know what classes will be responsible for repairing what.

Also
How a crafting class functions in skill up groups may be different and beneficial in its own right compared to when switching to a crafting class in between battles to maintain equipment.


If equipment degrades so rapidly that 3-4 hours with no deaths will require more than one repair, I'd be disappointed.

I'm not sure how SE would work it to make a profession discipline something fun and viable to play in a combat scenario. I don't see people flocking to progress their Disciple of the Hand so that they can show up to a 3-4 hour endgame event only to spend 90% of it waiting around for someone's gear to break while they whack away for trivial damage with their smithing hammer. It wouldn't surprise me to see a situation where having someone with a combat-oriented class and a profession class swapping between encounters to repair gear. I'd be interested to see if SE could do something that would make having a Disciple of the Hand available full time in a group (ie. even during combat).
#15 Feb 08 2010 at 12:45 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
630 posts
AureliusSir the Irrelevant wrote:
It wouldn't surprise me to see a situation where having someone with a combat-oriented class and a profession class swapping between encounters to repair gear. I'd be interested to see if SE could do something that would make having a Disciple of the Hand available full time in a group (ie. even during combat).


That would be pretty sweet. I could actually see it where tank X has durability issues, leaves combat and goes to a safe spot (bubble) to fix his gear while the off tank is now taking damage. At the end of the day it all comes down to how SE determines "in combat".
#16 Feb 08 2010 at 1:36 PM Rating: Good
**
555 posts
Instead of running back to a City to repair couldn't someone in your PT just switch Jobs and repair you themselves? ::shrug::
____________________________
Retired 75PLD
Hades Server
Obsidian Linkshell

WoW Fails.


#17 Feb 08 2010 at 1:45 PM Rating: Decent
***
2,169 posts
Allegory wrote:
Almost certainly wouldn't be a problem. Every game that I know of that has armor durability has it as a binary condition, i.e. your armor is either at 100% effectiveness or it is "broken" and thus you might as well not wear anything in that slot. A person whose armor is at half or even a quarter durability is still 100% functional; this player has the same stats as someone wearing the armor at full durability.

Armor durability isn't supposed to be a realistic feature. It's supposed to be a realistic way to insert a death penalty and money sink. There is no reason to reduce that stats your armor gives as it begins to wear slightly.

Ideally, repairing armor is never something you would have to go out of your way to do. It is just a maintenance you do whenever you happen to be in town. The party should be over or your loot bags should be full long, long before you would need to repair to prevent a penalty. The only people who would ever break their armor in the field are absent minded players who have forgotten to repair it just once in the last 10 visit they have made to town.

Edited, Feb 8th 2010 9:23am by Allegory


This makes sense to me. Unless someone comes up with a reference to SE saying that durability % will affect stats, it's safer to assume a boolean condition.

Regarding the whole crafting system, I do feel that tents would be cool, but I really hope it takes skill to craft something, like some type of puzzle game rather than just pressing a "synthesize" button. If the crafting system is very deep and actually requires some type of skill and is fun, then I can see more people going as full-time crafters. Then SE can make the game depend more on crafters almost to the same level as it depends on healers.
____________________________
FFXIV - Currently Playing on Selbina Server
Name: Itachi Akatsuki (THM)
LS: UnitedBBQ

www.guildwork.com - best guildhosting site period

FFXI - Pingpong - Retired 2007
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?6988
75rng | 75nin | 75blm | working on RDM
RNG Gration solo: http://pingpongwww.livejournal.com/15532.html
#18 Feb 08 2010 at 3:18 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
38 posts
I could have sworn I remember reading somewhere that SE did talk about making Crafting classes just as viable an option in parties as well. Not just solo play. SE did also say they wont really have much offensive capabilities either so they have to be support of some kind.

What i meant to spit out by the last part of my previous post is pretty much the same as what Aurelious Sir Irrelevenat said "I'd be interested to see if SE could do something that would make having a Disciple of the Hand available full time in a group (ie. even during combat)."

Having crafter class in the party obviously has to have some sort of benefit's is what im getting at and I'm guessing it's to do with maintenance/functionality/effectiveness of gear.

____________________________

COGS
LV75 NIN, LV 75 DRK
Pandemonium Server
#19 Feb 08 2010 at 3:42 PM Rating: Decent
***
2,010 posts
COGSs wrote:


I could have sworn I remember reading somewhere that SE did talk about making Crafting classes just as viable an option in parties as well. Not just solo play. SE did also say they wont really have much offensive capabilities either so they have to be support of some kind.


I'm sure that they did - but even this doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. I mean, why wouldn't a blacksmith have strong offensive capabilities? What, swinging a hammer shaping metal at a forge all night isn't enough to warrant a bit of muscle on the field? I would understand maybe a leathercrafter\tailor not being all that powerful in a combative role, but a Blacksmith\Miner\Lumberjack etc...

We'll see how it all plays out, but I do hope that they know what they are doing with this durability stuff.
#20 Feb 08 2010 at 4:46 PM Rating: Good
***
1,022 posts
I guess it would be OK as long as there were things to do for the crafting players that would do the repairs for you. I REALLY hope it doesn't end up like in FFXI where say you make some pies and mithkabobs for those leveling up in Valkurm... you'd have to sit there by the town for safety and not do anything until someone comes along to buy some food. (aka. bazaaring.)

Though it got the job done, it wasn't a very fun way to play the game, and if crafting is going to be its own class, i'd rather not advocate that sort of play style.
____________________________
Main character: AutumEmber
60blm/whm Rank 7 Windurst
Linkshell: SeraphsDarkside
Server: Bismarck
#21 Feb 08 2010 at 5:02 PM Rating: Good
Sage
**
372 posts
Quote:
I could have sworn I remember reading somewhere that SE did talk about making Crafting classes just as viable an option in parties as well. Not just solo play. SE did also say they wont really have much offensive capabilities either so they have to be support of some kind.


I think it was the other way around, check out the wiki or the interview compilation, I'm going to just incase I read it wrong (which wouldn't be the first time) :D

But there in lies the problem, if they do not have the combat skill to be usefull in a party (not counting repairing etc etc) then no one would really want them there as a Crafter to help bring down...whatever. They could simply rely on one who is in Sword or Magic mode who occasionally swaps in his own crafting tool to perform said repairs.

And I think thats the point. They can literally be swapped in at any time, should they be needed with little downtime and maximum efficiency.

I think their basic combat ability will be more for solo play than party - but then SE have stated this game is more solo friendly, in which case there is no real issue. But I think if there are boss fights, if the gods make a return and the HLNMs bleed their way into FFXIV - then I can see those setups simply being DotS and DoM. But that's just me.

Edited, Feb 9th 2010 10:27am by akelah
#22 Feb 09 2010 at 9:36 AM Rating: Good
Sage
**
372 posts
I cheacked and this is from the compilation here on this page.

Quote:
Dengeki - Interview with Tanaka and Komoto - Sep 10, 2009
* Accessories like Belts and Necklaces will be visible in XIV. Possibly even rings
* Seamless zones in XIV the size of a region in XI
* Monsters will not chase you across the entire zone
* Weapons can be drawn in town
* Devs want to implement weather into XIV and have it have an effect (as of yet unknown) on players
* Dev team is considering making positioning in battle effective in different ways
* Aetheryte are planned to be a sort of replacement for the Moghouse
* How chocobos will be utilized is not yet decided
* Komoto mentions that a previous announcement of voiceovers for every cutscene was an overstatement. Voiceovers will be on major cutscenes
* Weapon decay is designed to be a major connection between crafter classes and other classes
* Failed attempts at armor/weapon repair will not result in the loss of the item
* Crafters will be able to customize gear
* Crafters will have very minor fighting abilities
* The amount of guildleves a player can initiate are limited by a set amount of time. Players can help others with theirs, however
* SE has an interest in having official Offline events
* The Security Token will be used, but not required
* Control layout will be very similar to FFXI
* Window and Text size are not able to be changed, but there are plans to allow for it
* FFXIV will be able to be windowed
* Characters will have a wider range of motions and emotes than FFXI


I know that doesn't really say they can't be in a party set-up, but with minor fighting abilities? I just don't see them asked to come to a God fight (don't know any of the HL mobs in XIV sorry lol) as a Blacksmith, ya know?
#23 Feb 09 2010 at 1:20 PM Rating: Good
**
353 posts
Quote:
I know that doesn't really say they can't be in a party set-up, but with minor fighting abilities? I just don't see them asked to come to a God fight (don't know any of the HL mobs in XIV sorry lol) as a Blacksmith, ya know?

Well, we don't actually know that now do we?
For all we know, the jobs under the disciples of the hand / land actually have party specific buffs, or other unique abilities.
For all we know, having a blacksmith in the party would not only have an aura effect that reduces the rate in which durability is lost, it could also increase the stats on the gear.
Botanists may be able to make creatures spawn faster then regular or w/e, so having them in the party would allow for higher chains.

At this point, we really cannot discount the other two job categories just because at this moment we don't associate them with combat.
____________________________
My brother is an Emo-DRK, I am a kind PLD.
Go figure.

Monks do it with their hands.
Scholars do it in the classroom.
Puppetmasters do it with dolls.
Ninjas do it and then disappear.
Thieves do it then run away.
#24 Feb 09 2010 at 1:34 PM Rating: Decent
*
95 posts
It's not going to be as extreme as this thread makes it out to be. It is going to be simple maintenance unless you are just dieing a ton. You need to have depreciation of stats when a piece of armor gets broken otherwise there is no point in having armor decay. The fees for repair will not be ridiculous at npcs spots in little towns or 'outposts' if you will. Also, it will be more than likely if you are partying with a group, one of them will be able to fix armor as needed.
____________________________
Sin(SWTOR): 50 Jedi Sentinel

Krystalin(FFXI) :(retired) 85BRD/85BLM/85WAR/85BLU/85SAM/85DRG/85PLD/85RDM/85THF/85DRK/75BST/75PUP/75COR/75MNK/75NIN/75RNG

Vikzul(WoW):(retired) 80 rogue

Clytie(WoW):(retired) 80 pld
#25 Feb 09 2010 at 4:12 PM Rating: Good
Sage
**
372 posts
Quote:
Well, we don't actually know that now do we?
For all we know, the jobs under the disciples of the hand / land actually have party specific buffs, or other unique abilities.
For all we know, having a blacksmith in the party would not only have an aura effect that reduces the rate in which durability is lost, it could also increase the stats on the gear.
Botanists may be able to make creatures spawn faster then regular or w/e, so having them in the party would allow for higher chains.

At this point, we really cannot discount the other two job categories just because at this moment we don't associate them with combat.


Nope we don't. I was simply offering my opinion on it and how those specific classes would be run. You have to remember that first and foremost they are still 'crafters' and specialise in one specific thing. We must also remember the way the job system as it has been pitched to us thus-far indicates that each dicipline can be spliced with another, so long as the character itself has skilled in a particular area. While there is no Paladin Class, you could form a Hybrid as such by mixing Sword and Magic abilities and skilling in those abilities required. It gives the player greater control over how they want to play but I think its the system that will make solo play possible in FFXIV.

But I think something is being lost - or rather misunderstood. We haven't been shown enough to really understand how the leveling in FFXIV works, as so we base speculation on FFXI.

All you have to remember is this. There are no levels in FFXIV, only skill levels. While information on how this is implimented and what the system actually looks like, we will continue to speculate and probably get it wrong. But I keep reminding myself of this fact, and each time I'm reminded its the reason why I don't see crafters in an exp party doing anything worthwhile. Because in order for them to level skill, they have to be actively using those skills. A Blacksmith will skill up his craft by using his smithing skill, not by bashing in a mobs head, or buffing his party. He skills by making things with his hammer and anvil and what ever mats are required. The repair bit comes (as far as I can tell) in stages, probably tiers. A Blacksmith would no doubt have to at least be in the tier the equipment itself is, as it has been confirmed in an interview, rare and higher quality equipment requires a more skilled smith.



Edited, Feb 9th 2010 5:24pm by akelah
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 22 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (22)