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Possibility of Voice Chat? No thanks.Follow

#202 Feb 19 2010 at 12:41 PM Rating: Decent
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It would require additional server resources, yes. Fair or unfair doesn't really come into the equation. In any MMO there is going to be a wide array of content, all of which requiring server resources and development time to create, maintain, and update. If Bob is only interested in a certain aspect of the game, would you say it's unfair that he has to pay the same monthly fee as people who enjoy all aspects of it? You pay the same monthly fee as everyone else and are granted access to the same content as everyone else. Whether or not you choose to make use of it is up to you.


You are talking about content vs features though which are apples to oranges.

I think that the best way to implement a feature say as voice chat would be to pay an additional cost to your subsciption for the use of the voice server, that way everyone wins.

Edited, Feb 19th 2010 1:42pm by Diakar

Edited, Feb 19th 2010 1:44pm by Diakar
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#203 Feb 19 2010 at 1:02 PM Rating: Good
Diakar wrote:
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It would require additional server resources, yes. Fair or unfair doesn't really come into the equation. In any MMO there is going to be a wide array of content, all of which requiring server resources and development time to create, maintain, and update. If Bob is only interested in a certain aspect of the game, would you say it's unfair that he has to pay the same monthly fee as people who enjoy all aspects of it? You pay the same monthly fee as everyone else and are granted access to the same content as everyone else. Whether or not you choose to make use of it is up to you.


You are talking about content vs features though which are apples to oranges.

I think that the best way to implement a feature say as voice chat would be to pay an additional cost to your subsciption for the use of the voice server, that way everyone wins.


It's not apples to oranges. You're talking server resources. Why should you have to pay for additional server resources for something you don't use? Why should you have to pay for server resources that go towards PvP if you aren't interested in PvP? Why should a portion of your subscription fees go towards development of hardcore endgame content if you don't participate in it? Why should a portion of the money you pay go to porting the game to consoles if you don't play on a console? Why is SE paying staff salaries to negotiate with Microsoft if you would never play on an XBox? Why should you be paying people in Japan to make a game if you don't live in Japan? Why should they eat sushi for lunch if you don't like rice? Who cares?
#204 Feb 19 2010 at 1:19 PM Rating: Default
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If Bob is only interested in a certain aspect of the game, would you say it's unfair that he has to pay the same monthly fee as people who enjoy all aspects of it?


I say you do pay the same as everyone else.
You want my product you pay the bill you don't want to maximize your freedom in the game thats your problem. Where would you draw the line?
Lets have a deal where if you aren't planning on doing end game you pay 6 dollars less a month.
Or if you don't go into the Zulkeim Region you only pay 10 dollars a month.
your not using that area why should you pay for its upkeep?
I don't think so.
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#205 Feb 19 2010 at 1:39 PM Rating: Decent
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Why should you have to pay for server resources that go towards PvP if you aren't interested in PvP?


Well I doubt PVP will be of any concern in FF14, development staff have basically hinted as much.

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Why should a portion of your subscription fees go towards development of hardcore endgame content if you don't participate in it?


Again thats not a feature and doesn't really relate to the specifics of voice chat.

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Why should a portion of the money you pay go to porting the game to consoles if you don't play on a console? Why is SE paying staff salaries to negotiate with Microsoft if you would never play on an XBox?


You're talking about development cost which again have nothing to do with what I am talking about, the people who play on consoles will be paying the cost of porting and development, when they buy the game for $60 or whatever it is.

Anyway I feel this is going of topic :S

Edited, Feb 19th 2010 2:40pm by Diakar
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#206 Feb 19 2010 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good
Diakar wrote:
Quote:
Why should you have to pay for server resources that go towards PvP if you aren't interested in PvP?


Well I doubt PVP will be of any concern in FF14, development staff have basically hinted as much.


You've missed the point. Did anyone in FFXI gripe that server resources were being used for Ballista or the instanced PvP events? Would you have agreed with them if they did?

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Again thats not a feature and doesn't really relate to the specifics of voice chat.


Server and development resources are resources regardless of what they're used for. If it was an issue of certain resources being made available to a segment of players but not all players then yes, I'd say that charging extra might be warranted. When it's something that's being made available to all players, no extra charge is warranted.

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You're talking about development cost which again have nothing to do with what I am talking about, the people who play on consoles will be paying the cost of porting and development, when they buy the game for $60 or whatever it is.


I'm talking about resources and you're trying to segregate the purpose of resources like it matters. It doesn't. You don't get to segregate those resources that support your point and ignore the segregation of resources that don't. You pay for the full deal and use what you use. That's how it works.
#207 Feb 19 2010 at 2:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Ehh how come ?

There are many examples of subscription based pricing structures, such as Xbox live for example, you pay extra for extra "features".

Not everyone wants to use those features, you are basically saying because Microsoft take the time and resources to develope those features that everyone is required to pay and use them, things don't work like that.

Take Wizard101 for example and MMO where you can pay for what you want (which includes specific area access) or pay a monthly or even a yearly subscription to get all the content with no restrictions, sure the game is very basic from an MMO point of view but it provides consumers the choice to play and pay for what they want.

Now the conversation has gone way off topic and this doesn't have anything to do with voice chat.

Of course WoW has it own built in voice chat system but its really bad and nobody(very few) uses it, requiring players to download vent or teamspeak and pay an addition charge for a voice server, which is kind of my point, if you want it then pay extra for it, its not something which should be forced upon others who see no reason to use it.

Edited, Feb 19th 2010 3:13pm by Diakar
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#208 Feb 19 2010 at 2:44 PM Rating: Good
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Compare the hardest WoW endgame with the hardest FFXI endgame and I'm sure we can all agree which is harder. And yet they manage to kill Pandemonium Warden and clear Odin's chamber without voice chat... how on earth can they do that...
Do you know for sure they didn't use voice chat during the PW fight? Just because it's not integrated into FFXI doesn't mean most LS don't use vent/etc.

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Does voice-chat has some good points, of course it does but so does text-chat. Especially in a multi-lingual environment where people from all over the world participate in the same group. Listening to someone speaking english when your mother tongue is another language isn't the same as as reading someone writing in english.
Listening is easier IMO, particularly for Japanese.

Quote:
Of course WoW has it own built in voice chat system but its really bad and nobody(very few) uses it, requiring players to download vent or teamspeak and pay an addition charge for a voice server, which is kind of my point, if you want it then pay extra for it, its not something which should be forced upon others who see no reason to use it.
If it's an extra "optional" service nobody is forcing anyone to pay extra to use it, just like nobody is "forcing" you to use the various voice chat programs now. What we'd like is a built in voice chat that doesn't suck so console users can get the same functionality PC users already enjoy.
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#209 Feb 19 2010 at 2:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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practically, adding in voice chat will not raise the cost of the monthly subscription. WoW added voice chat rather late into the development cycle (in-game voice wasn't available until after the release of the second xpac) and the subscription price remained the same. in order to stay competitive, SE will have to do the same thing.

Edited, Feb 19th 2010 12:54pm by Quor
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#210 Feb 19 2010 at 3:03 PM Rating: Default
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Is that in part that nobody uses it, surely if everyone started using it there would be a much bigger strain on the server (especially server with large populations) and they would have to accomadate more server space fot it.

The codec which WoW use is very lossy and was intended to be used over 56k connections, plus the fact that it sucks is why it never took off, they implemented the feature but never upgraded it so that people would consider using it.

What Wow offers may as well not exsist tbh.
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#211 Feb 19 2010 at 3:04 PM Rating: Good
Diakar wrote:
Ehh how come ?

There are many examples of subscription based pricing structures, such as Xbox live for example, you pay extra for extra "features".

Not everyone wants to use those features, you are basically saying because Microsoft take the time and resources to develope those features that everyone is required to pay and use them, things don't work like that.


Microsoft isn't offering an MMO. Microsoft isn't competing with what other MMO developers offer. Other MMO developers have offered integrated voice chat and not charged extra. What SE needs to do if they want to integrate VC is offer a product with similar quality to third party options and include it with the standard monthly fee everyone else pays. If they don't, they fragment their userbase.

Quote:
Take Wizard101 for example and MMO where you can pay for what you want (which includes specific area access) or pay a monthly or even a yearly subscription to get all the content with no restrictions, sure the game is very basic from an MMO point of view but it provides consumers the choice to play and pay for what they want.


Monthly fee. Unrestricted access.


Edited, Feb 19th 2010 1:05pm by AureliusSir
#212 Feb 19 2010 at 3:44 PM Rating: Good
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Three page late reply? Hope I don't get fined for this one.

AureliusSir the Irrelevant wrote:
Hi. Maybe you missed the qualifier...

AureliusSir the Irrelevant wrote:
When your only reason for refusing to use voice chat is that you don't "wanna", you're just being childish.


I sort of take for granted that people don't dislike activities because of spontaneous desires; Nobody simply just "Doesn't wanna" and that's that, whether they know the actual reason or not. So it seemed to me you were implying that saying "I don't wanna (because of personal reasons)" is childish.

Of course, if you really did just mean "If you simply don't want to and have no better reason, that's childish," then I guess I'd just say I'm sure they had some sort of reason. Did I jump to conclusions unreasonably? Sorry if that's the case.

Though those reasons could be childish, true: Wanting to spite a "voice chat trend" to be a contrarianist, for instance.

AureliusSir the Irrelevant wrote:
Again with the circular arguments getting old... Etc.


You'll forgive me if I skimmed this and skip replying to it, as I said previously that I actually support VC because I acknowledge it as being very useful and good for the game as a whole.

My only concerns are that I'd prefer it to not be too widespread for casual-encounter parties. A "Friends/LS Only" voice thing would be cool in my opinion. But again, failing that, I just want what's best for the game.

Mainly I was just saying that having personal, non-mechanic reasons for disliking voice chat is not "childish", and that using a communication tool in-game does not make you "mature".

(Which I felt the need to say, in addition to replying to the "Childish" thing, because there does seem to be a funky undertext that doing more mechanically efficient things and/or performing better in a video game means you're more of a grown-up than otherwise.)

On the flip-side, disliking mics isn't a sign of maturity, and using one to rally your party is hardly immature.

Also you guys have been doing this for like five pages now so I'm not even gonna try.
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#213 Feb 19 2010 at 3:57 PM Rating: Good
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AureliusSir the Irrelevant wrote:
Somewhere along the line I think people have tricked themselves into thinking that I've said endgame in MMOs is impossible without voice chat. I haven't. I've said it offers a benefit. I've said that in games where you're triggering abilities every couple of seconds, communication no longer comes at the cost of performance when voice chat is used. Pointing out examples where voice chat hasn't been used doesn't make voice chat any less useful. And it ignores the reality: many MMORPG players are accustomed to voice chat as a standard means of communication in large group events. If SE doesn't account for that, FFXIV is going to suffer in one way or another.


Maybe not you specifically, but the point is, I have encountered some who believe it to be the case now. I haven't logged onto Aion much in the past few days after that little tiff with the leader. Sure, part of it is the result of me being physically exhausted after shoveling two feet of snow off and on from my sidewalk and driveway over the past few days, but I'm not really in the mood for the, "Have you set up vent yet?" line of interrogation.

As is, the friend I play with is out of town and will be for another week or so. So, I haven't been able to bring this up with him, nor to confirm if whether or not they told him about the requirement early on because he certainly didn't mention it to me and he knows I'm rather fixed on my privacy and comfort levels. There's the possibility we may wind up bailing on the legion if they're gonna be hardheaded. We might even end up leaving the game altogether since he hasn't gotten to play much in the past two months and I largely got it to hang out with him.

Whether or not us quitting sends a message, I dunno. Message might only be received if enough follow suit, but if we'd all quit the game, nobody really wins. No isn't good enough for those guys, and they're not the ones I want getting legs to stand on fragmenting possible group formations because those who have no issue working with text people aren't in leadership positions and might not even know they're missing out on potential teammates.

So, if the response to that is that I should just create my own groups, well, that thought has crossed my mind. Personally, I don't think charisma is a strength of mine and I don't do the greatest job in meeting new people even though I do believe I have the analytical and organizational skills to keep people together in the long term. Plus my schedule can be random due to family affairs, so part of it would also be a matter of acquiring worthy folks to keep things from going to **** in my absence. None of these are things you can really assess within a few short days or weeks of a game's life, and I've seen more than my share of the "ding and ditch" crowd, too.

Perhaps it's safer to say I don't want content requiring more than 6 people, and in turn some kind of crazy organization/communication, within the first year of XIV's life. We'll still need to get familiar with the controls, the combat system, and little things SE can introduce to us in baby steps that'd eventually culminate into 18-man affairs... and hopefully no more for the sake of effort:reward. People will get settled in. Those who do like voice will have used it for more casual affairs. Those not interested will have had a chance to make an impression, too. Even after reading the Yogg stuff, while it may seem random at times, I still see some method in that madness, individually and collectively.
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#214 Feb 19 2010 at 5:03 PM Rating: Default
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Gonna inject a bit of light humor into this thread, it needs it. I find people who demand VC or fight for it with blind fury have been owned by a G.i.r.l. I'm not gonna point fingers, but I'm betting someone in this thread got scammed, dumped and embarrassed in front of his bros by a guy playing him. MMORPGS aren't for dating, you shouldn't log in and go "I'm gonna find a life partner today!" you should log in to play the game.

I'm just bringing this up, because one of my old wow guild leaders wouldn't do anything without VC and he always flirted with us women when we'd log in. He got burned by someone and developed a grudge against text chat.
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#215 Feb 19 2010 at 5:11 PM Rating: Good
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Gonna inject a bit of light humor into this thread, it needs it. I find people who demand VC or fight for it with blind fury have been owned by a G.i.r.l. I'm not gonna point fingers, but I'm betting someone in this thread got scammed, dumped and embarrassed in front of his bros by a guy playing him. MMORPGS aren't for dating, you shouldn't log in and go "I'm gonna find a life partner today!" you should log in to play the game.

I'm just bringing this up, because one of my old wow guild leaders wouldn't do anything without VC and he always flirted with us women when we'd log in. He got burned by someone and developed a grudge against text chat.


An inordinate number of your posts in this thread center around the interaction between boys and girls...are you sure you're not the one who got burned?
#216 Feb 19 2010 at 7:10 PM Rating: Good
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Soi, just....stop.
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#217 Feb 20 2010 at 1:24 AM Rating: Decent
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An inordinate number of your posts in this thread center around the interaction between boys and girls...are you sure you're not the one who got burned?


ouch :O
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#218 Feb 20 2010 at 3:33 AM Rating: Good
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Perhaps it's safer to say I don't want content requiring more than 6 people, and in turn some kind of crazy organization/communication, within the first year of XIV's life. We'll still need to get familiar with the controls, the combat system, and little things SE can introduce to us in baby steps that'd eventually culminate into 18-man affairs... and hopefully no more for the sake of effort:reward. People will get settled in. Those who do like voice will have used it for more casual affairs. Those not interested will have had a chance to make an impression, too. Even after reading the Yogg stuff, while it may seem random at times, I still see some method in that madness, individually and collectively.


yeah, once you understand what needs to be done and you get your priorities straight it's actually not that bad. but even after you've done it a few times it's still rather demanding on a person, especially once you start getting into the hard mode versions of the fight.

having said that, SE tends to prefer (based on 11) a slower style of play. my guess is that the playstyle will be faster than it was in 11, but probably not to the level it is in WoW. assuming they get some fundamental things about the classes right, i think theyll be trying to find that moderate ground between the slower pace of FF11 play and the faster style of WoW end game.
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feral druids do it on all fours.
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http://therewillbebrawl.com/
#219 Feb 20 2010 at 10:22 AM Rating: Good
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o_o

The people that would force you to use voice chat options would be the people that would try and force you to use ventrillo lacking a voice chat option.

The general population would not be affected in general. It may make random parties a tad more efficient if people did use microphones, but the majority of players would keep mics off to avoid ******* contests, political debate, and douchebaggery.

If you want to play a game where they shouldn't have enabled voice chat for everyone, and made it difficult to mute someone, go play Halo 2 or Halo 3.

If you want to play a game where voice chat has been enabled most excellently, Go play Eve.

That's all there is to it. Nothing to debate really.

In the end, not having voice chat will have relatively little effect on the game itself, as you have to care enough to use it seriously first. Those that have that attitude would inevitably have gotten a 3rd party software program like ventrillo or teamspeak to use regardless.
#220 Feb 20 2010 at 11:52 AM Rating: Default
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If you want to play a game where voice chat has been enabled most excellently, Go play Eve.

this.

as long as FFXIV stays focused on chat I think it will do great.
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#221 Feb 20 2010 at 1:29 PM Rating: Decent
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goblinpimp wrote:
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If you want to play a game where voice chat has been enabled most excellently, Go play Eve.

this.

as long as FFXIV stays focused on chat I think it will do great.


I dunno, but I interpreted what you quoted more as "Eve is a good example where VC works well" not as "If you want VC go play Eve". So basically it is more a question of implementation and context of where it is used than VC itself, and I have to agree.

Also, I think FFXIV will do great regardless. Having or not having VC is not going to make or break FFXIV(As a whole and for the majority of people), there are other things that will do that. Especially considering the widespread usage of third-party VC programs today. However I do think VC should be considered, if nothing else with console players in mind; many don't have access to third-party programs and this would enable those of them that want to, to be able to take part in VC as well (Whether it is for gameplay or social reasons).

Edited, Feb 20th 2010 2:37pm by Belcrono
#222 Feb 20 2010 at 4:11 PM Rating: Decent
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I dunno, but I interpreted what you quoted more as "Eve is a good example where VC works well" not as "If you want VC go play Eve". So basically it is more a question of implementation and context of where it is used than VC itself, and I have to agree.

Also, I think FFXIV will do great regardless. Having or not having VC is not going to make or break FFXIV(As a whole and for the majority of people), there are other things that will do that. Especially considering the widespread usage of third-party VC programs today. However I do think VC should be considered, if nothing else with console players in mind; many don't have access to third-party programs and this would enable those of them that want to, to be able to take part in VC as well (Whether it is for gameplay or social reasons).


I think Eve is a positive example of voice but I believe FFXIV can do "better" without it as the "main" source of communication and what made FFXI special will "diminish"
I do not believe this issue is a deciding factor in the making or breaking if FFXIV but it should not be brushed off by developers that the FFXI community (which said party is aiming for) appears to be more comfortable with chat.

With respect to the consoles, I don't know what to say. I haven't played a MMO on a console since my first FFXI character on ps2 my views are from a PC user perspective. I guess you make a good point on this.
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#223 Feb 20 2010 at 6:13 PM Rating: Good
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I like voice chat even in random public games when playing Heroes of Newerth. I liked it in WoW as well, where I would spend a good portion of my time socializing with people via Ventrilo instead of typing. (Because I can talk and play a game at the same time, but playing a game and typing at the same time is not possible.)

I think it's a good optional addition. I hate when people get red in the face and say "WE DON'T WANT IT" as if just by having access to it, it's automatically going to become the default communication form. Those of us who like it will use it, and the rest of you can still continue to type. That's how it always ended up in WoW. People would just pretend not to have a microphone and mute us when they knew what they were doing. And that was fine by us.


Like I said, I love it in Heroes of Newerth. Their VOIP has a LOT of options. You can mute individual players, mute everyone, adjust their volume individually, etc. It's a great tool and the system is well thought out. (Even for a game in beta still.)
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#224 Feb 26 2010 at 4:38 PM Rating: Decent
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I personally believe voice chat can help lend to the immersion of an MMORPG, but given the maturity level of most gamers, I am against that.

It also doesn't help that I am Deaf, so if I had my party friends constantly using voice chat as we went on a raid, I'd be totally fripping ****** because I wouldn't know what is going on.

OK? Communication is vital, and don't shut out those who can't hear. Jeez.

Edit: My advice is to create custom macros for chat messages like we could do in FFXI, because that was just awesomely helpful in maintaining close communication.

Edited, Feb 26th 2010 5:39pm by KatoArabel
#225 Feb 26 2010 at 7:47 PM Rating: Decent
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MrNumptyk wrote:
TLDR: Voice chat, don't like it unless nessecary. Your thoughts?

Am i the only one in the world that absolutely hates voice chat in games? I understand that voice chat has its place, like in FPSs where you don't really have the time to stop playing and type something, or endgame raids where text is flying by so fast that you dont have time to read everyhing and you're leader has to give orders.

but as far as normal playing goes, i would really prefer that they keep voice chat out of the game.
guilds can still have vent servers or whatever for endgame but i would hate to have to listen to it on a regular basis, like in regular EXP/mission/quest parties.

My reasoning is quite simple, I just think that it really really ruins the atmosphere of the game. I'm not a role player by any means, its not really the immersion that i have a problem with, but just the fact that most of the time, people have their mic levels jacked way too high or just have a low quality mic in general, the end result is a horrible quality, tinny sounding voice coming through you're speakers constantly. I enjoy the atmposphere and music of games, and whenever somebody starts talking it really kinda ruins it for me, especially when i have to turn the volume down because its that much louder than everything else. i know there is usually an option to turn voice chat off but that would cause me to miss much of what is being said.... which would not work out in an MMO.

I've been playing a lot of White Knight Chronicles lately and, the voice chat is really ******* me off. It all just sounds so abnoxious whenever somebody talks, no matter what they are saying.

Again, i'm not saying that voice chat does not have its place in XIV, it can come in very handy for endgame, but if it is made available through the game itself, instead of an outside client, i tihnk it would be used for all things group related, which would really get to me after a while.

I know that the dev's have said that voice chat is unlikely going to be included with the game at launch, but could possibly be implemented at a later time.

does anybody else agree with me? or am i the only one that thinks voice chat comes across as abnoxious and un-immersing (for lack of a better term)


Edited, Feb 8th 2010 11:43pm by MrNumptyk


so how in the **** do ps3/xbxo players use vent...well thought out friend, voice chat should be in the game, i can understand people screaming and saying dumb stuff, but i mean for parties, it is a must, With ffxi me and my friends from xbox have vent running on our pc's while we play, and that is completly annoying, get out of the dark ages, if it dosnt have voice chat, they might aswell put it out for ps2....every xbox live game has voice chat, ok not everyone, but not one of them has keyboard only use, it either has keyboard and voice, or neither, if it dosnt have it...guaranteed it will fail on the xbox market, no one wants to use those tiny keyboards for the ps3, anyone who agrees with you owns a pc, if the game does not have integreted voice chat, i will not be purchasing it.
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