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#1 Feb 10 2010 at 11:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hello everyone,

some thoughts about inventory in general.

Comparing sizes and types of inventory space from different games:

FFXI:
We have a normal inventory, mog safe, mog locker, mog satchel (grows with inventory) and storage. All can go upto max of 80 slots (special on storage: need to "sacrifice" slots in mog safe).

Equiped armor and weapons count against free inventory spaces or with other words, they stay in your inventory.
(I am very sure this was made because of the ability to change jobs since all equiped items will be "unequiped" on job-change)

Oh, and I forgot mules, the most common way to expand slot to store items.

WoW:
Normal bag (size of 16 slots) with another 4 open slots to put additional bags. Bags can have different sizes starting with 6 and going upto, at least when I played, 20 slots. Special bags available for some classes or crafts to put class-depending or craft-depending items.

You have a bank and you can purchase slots to put more bags in there.
Bags are either droped or made from players.

Equiped items do not count against inventory space.

Star Wars Galaxies:
80 slots inventory on start, 50 more inv-space with a normal backpack or 65 with better backpacks/waistpack for jedi and 100 slots in bank.

Player houses come in different sizes with 100, 200 and 500 slots with the possibility of upgrading them with extra inventory deeds from collections (max +600) and a veteran reward with another 200.

Equiped items do not count against inventory, its even possible to "overload" the max capacity but then you are unable to move (easiest done with unequiping a filled backpack/waistback).

LotRO: (sorry, don't have exact numbers of bank and house-storage in my mind anymore)
You start with 5 bags of 15 slots each, no upgrade in size possible from what I know. Bank with ?? slots, additional bags in bank purchaseable.
Storage-Box in playerhouse possible (need to buy a house before), increases with size of the house (normal house, big house and guild hall).

Equiped items don't count against inventory


I really wonder in which way SE is going to put inventory and storage in FF14, if equiped items will count against available inv-space, will we have a bank for linkshells or if the different disciples have inventory on their own or sharing the space available to one character.

What are your thoughts on this subject or did anyone of you encounter a different way of inventory in another game?

Cheers,
Fro
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#2 Feb 10 2010 at 11:58 AM Rating: Good
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Its hard to say what we'll even need in FF14. We know that by switching weapons you change disciplines, so obviously you'll have to carry that extra weapon. I would assume you'd have to carry all the extra armor for that discipline as well, or crafting gear if you switch to a discipline of the land.

But because SE has stated they want to do away with mid-battle gear swaps, I would assume we won't need to carry all that extra "macro in" gear. (which I'm glad, because that always seemed dumb to me) So maybe only 50 slots would be all you'd ever need????

As far as storage goes, however SE decides to do that (bye bye moghouse.. /cry) it better be HUGE!!!

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#3 Feb 10 2010 at 12:08 PM Rating: Decent
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I always thought that having equipment count against your inventory in FFXI was ridiculous. It would have made such a huge difference to have those 16 slots back. Besides, If I'm wearing my boots on my feet, then why should I ALSO be carrying them in my gobbie bag at the same time?? It doesn't make much sense and I think it will be an easy thing for SE to be able to implement into FFXIV.
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#4 Feb 10 2010 at 12:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think frodito is probably right about the equipment staying in your inventory in FFXI. Arranging some way for equipment to go back into your inventory when you change jobs without it spilling out of your inventory would be impractically complex. It was really just a matter of it being too difficult to make equipment separate than inventory what with switching jobs than anything else. Another matter is that the way the programmed it, you only have space for 80 items per set, so if you were to make inventory a separate section, there's the whole issue of making sure the gear fits back in when you change jobs.... basically it's a nightmare.

Edited, Feb 10th 2010 1:22pm by Hulan
#5 Feb 10 2010 at 1:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Whatever they end up doing with inventory space, Disciplines of the Land are in a bit of a situation.
It's an entire set of classes based around taking things from the environment and putting them into your inventory. How much inventory space they have is a big part of their "job". More specifically, it determines the length of a playsession, as the only recourse to remedy a full backpack is to trek back to town.

I don't think special inventory space is feasible given the insta-job-switch nature of the Armoury system (if your Herbalist backpack is bigger than your Gladiator backpack, and you've filled it to capacity, what happens when you change class?) So there would have to be some special storage considerations native to the Disciplines of the Land that are external to the characters themselves.

The more I think about it, the more I like the choco-mule theory.



#6 Feb 10 2010 at 1:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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the bigger the inventory the better

more room for stuff ->
more reason to get stuff ->
more time spent playing->
more money for SE->
???->
profit
(see above)
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#7 Feb 10 2010 at 3:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Hulan wrote:
I think frodito is probably right about the equipment staying in your inventory in FFXI. Arranging some way for equipment to go back into your inventory when you change jobs without it spilling out of your inventory would be impractically complex. It was really just a matter of it being too difficult to make equipment separate than inventory what with switching jobs than anything else. Another matter is that the way the programmed it, you only have space for 80 items per set, so if you were to make inventory a separate section, there's the whole issue of making sure the gear fits back in when you change jobs.... basically it's a nightmare.

Edited, Feb 10th 2010 1:22pm by Hulan


I really don't think it's as big of an issue as you think... FFXI could have just made it so that if you would not have enough inventory space to change jobs, it won't let you change jobs.

Scenario:
1) User tries to switch from WAR to WHM
2) Count how many items would need to be removed from body equipment if the job change were to occur. If # of items needed to be removed > number of empty inventory slots, then do not allow job change and print message "You do not have enough free inventory slots to change jobs." Else allow job change. Simple
#8 Feb 10 2010 at 4:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Zemzelette wrote:
The more I think about it, the more I like the choco-mule theory.


+1

When you switch to a gatherer, you call ur choco and it runs with you. In combat you tell him to frolic in the forest with his choco buddies.
#9 Feb 10 2010 at 4:19 PM Rating: Default
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Personally, I'm of the opinion S-E should be trying to minimize inventory. After all, the more goods we the player base hold, the higher our aggregate carrying costs will be in the first quarter of the Eorzean year. Components of those costs include, but are not limited to, obsolescence and volatility of market prices. Invariably, these high costs will be a catalyst for a recession, forcing a new generation of Falafels into prostitution.

Clearly, the optimal solution is for S-E to reduce inventory levels across the entire population, but force us all to carry an adequate amount of safety stock. As independent players within a digital supply chain/economy, we can collectively reap the gil benefits of living more leanly. Ultimately, this will lead to obsolescence of RMTs and related activities, by extension an end to (Galkan) slave labour in Eastern Asia, and somewhere further down the line of implausibility provide a remedy for global warming.

Of course, a negative externality of this incoherent rambling is that, appropriately, it makes no sense and I've effectively wasted ~45 seconds of your life.
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#10 Feb 10 2010 at 5:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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As a side caveat, I think we should have unlimited auction house slots as well.
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#11 Feb 10 2010 at 6:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Since we will be freeshifting between jobs in the field inventory will be at a premium.

The fix? An equipped inventory bag. You'd have your standard inventory bag like in FFXI, then an additional equipped inventory bag for things that are currently equipped to any job. At any time you can select a job through the equipment menu (think the FFXI equipment screen, but with arrow tabs up top allowing you to click through multiple jobs) and equip items to its characterset removing it from your regular inventory and putting it in the equipped inventory. If you have an item that you want to equip on multiple jobs, you can select it from the equipped inventory bag and slot it in on another job that way, and until it was removed from all jobs it wouldn't go back to your regular inventory (the tooltip on these items would show what jobs they are equipped to to prevent confusion). To swap jobs you just run an equip macro on a particular weapon from your equipped inventory bag and all gear tied to that job would swap as well like using the outfitter mod in WoW. Naturally, the equipped inventory bag would be of unlimited size, since realistically it would only be able to hold a maximum of the number of classes multiplied by the number of gear slots available. In any occurrence where an item is forcibly unequipped from all jobs but there is no room in regular inventory, it could be temporarily stored in the equipped item bag and would be untradable until there is room in your regular inventory at which time it would automatically get dumped in (think the loot system in FFXI when your bags are full, but without things poofing after 5 minutes).

Like magic, you can now walk into the field ready across multiple jobs without cluttering your primary (for loot and whatnot) inventory. Doing this would allow them to keep the field inventory relatively small should they wish without impacting the players' ability to utilize the job system freely.

This kind of system isn't only technically feasible, but would be pretty easy to implement.
#12 Feb 11 2010 at 1:57 AM Rating: Decent
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The WoW system works just fine; I don't see any reason to mess with it, other than to potentially take the FFXI system of storing gear sets together.

Maybe be able to buy gear stands for your Mog House and be able to view gear sets in there? I know I would have loved that for my rogue gear sets (T1, T2, T4, T5, T6, S2, S3, S4, S6).
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#13 Feb 11 2010 at 4:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Simply put, the current system works for FFXI. It would make less sense for other MMOs, but their inventory management would also make less sense in FFXI. FFXI is simply too different from WoW-clones to implement WoW-clone inventory systems.

Arestia wrote:
I always thought that having equipment count against your inventory in FFXI was ridiculous. It would have made such a huge difference to have those 16 slots back. Besides, If I'm wearing my boots on my feet, then why should I ALSO be carrying them in my gobbie bag at the same time?? It doesn't make much sense and I think it will be an easy thing for SE to be able to implement into FFXIV.


FFXI having a different inventory system doesn't mean it's a bad system, or a non-sensical one. You might not carry your RL clothes in a bag on your shoulder, but you carry their weight nonetheless. Besides, the color coding clearly indicates that equiped gear is NOT in the inventory, but actually equipped. It also allows stuff like enchantments. Ever tried to right-click an item in a controller-based interface? Moving those 16 slots in a seperate container would bring so much more work and complications, it actually makes sense to throw them together.


Cyiode wrote:
I really don't think it's as big of an issue as you think... FFXI could have just made it so that if you would not have enough inventory space to change jobs, it won't let you change jobs.

Scenario:
1) User tries to switch from WAR to WHM
2) Count how many items would need to be removed from body equipment if the job change were to occur. If # of items needed to be removed > number of empty inventory slots, then do not allow job change and print message "You do not have enough free inventory slots to change jobs." Else allow job change. Simple


You realise that in the worst case scenario you would need 16 free slots at all times? The same 16 slots you hoped to gain? Then what's the whole point?
What about deleveling and stripga... "You have been deleveled/stripped and 10 of your gear no longer can be held in inventory. Do you want to destroy the Excalibur or the Duelist's Chapeau +1? Failure to comply will result in the destruction of both!"

Wouldn't it be better to just get rid of job changes altogether? Just rename jobs to classes, and only allow one class per character. That way you can avoid the whole mess. Ofcourse, subjobs would have to be redesigned from the ground up, since you can't level those anymore. It gets worse and worse...
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#14 Feb 11 2010 at 7:37 AM Rating: Decent
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As long as my inventory auto stacks all the stuff without being explicity told to do so i would be very very very happy.

Also being able to AH partial stacks would be wonderful. 1 or 12 or 20 were usually denominations and there were NO exceptions. Right there my bag/mog space would be incredibly cleared up. Can't count the number of times i saved so much stuff because i didn't have a full stack and singles don't sell worth garbage.

Choco sounds about right for all gathering professions, it's definately needed in that sense. also they did mention that they would be bumping up drop rates a fair bit which is... comforting. I am sick of grinding mobs in say, dunes for 5-10 levels and never even filling up my inventory once.
#15 Feb 11 2010 at 3:01 PM Rating: Good
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I honestly believe we should just have nigh-infinite inventory space, with some robust organization/sorting options. If not the ability to carry unlimited items, at least an exorbitantly high number that we'd never really approach unless we hoarded every junk item imaginable. That's usually how it works in Final Fantasy anyway. Just give us like, a tab for frequently-used items, or a favorites list, or predefined categories so we don't have to look at a linear list of items.

Arguments about disbelief are thrown out the window when people can run around with 60+ aquariums in an invisible bag. We know the primary reason for having so many separate storage systems in FFXI is because of the hard limit set to all storage instances, so short of maybe just a mog safe or a chocobo mule, I can't see any point in splitting up inventory across multiple locations either. And yes, I understand the technical implications of having to poll, say, 800 items from an item database every time someone opens their inventory, but there are smart ways of making this quick and painless (someone should teach Blizzard this; I'm looking at you, packet-storming WoW), and we don't have to deal with PS2 limitations and 56k this time.

I know there's a sense of achievement when expanding your inventory, but limited inventories are really just antiquated. I'm sure people could come up with some reasons why characters shouldn't be allowed to carry around everything they want, and why limited space is good for the economy, or whatever, but I don't think any of them would be particularly good reasons, nor would they really outweigh the pros of a super inventory. Anyone's free to prove me wrong, of course.
#16 Feb 18 2010 at 1:28 AM Rating: Decent
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I know there's a sense of achievement when expanding your inventory, but limited inventories are really just antiquated. I'm sure people could come up with some reasons why characters shouldn't be allowed to carry around everything they want, and why limited space is good for the economy, or whatever, but I don't think any of them would be particularly good reasons, nor would they really outweigh the pros of a super inventory. Anyone's free to prove me wrong, of course.


PS3 limitations? More seriously, there ought to be some limit on inventory space for two reasons.

1.) It's bad for the economy to be able to store all the stuff you've ever picked up. People won't put excess stuff on the AH, and the prices on the AH will be entirely be set by farmers. Without the added supply, prices would be higher (possibly significantly higher). Crafters would then buy the higher prices goods and turn out new goods, but these would be at a higher price as well. Bottom line: In game goods would go up in price (possibly by quite a bit).

2.) While it's technically possible to have an arbitrarily large inventory, its rough on the servers to do so. Get 2000 people on a server with an inventory of 50 each, that's 100,000 calls on the server every time each person open their inventory. Make that an inventory of 500, and it becomes one million calls. There are bandwidth issues making that many calls X times per hour. Again it CAN be done, but its worth limiting inventory space to something much less than 500.
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#17 Feb 18 2010 at 3:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Warcraft did even one better on inventory. Every expansion they released, the size of your inventory increased by 24, because tailors could craft bags that were 2 slots larger than the bags they could previously craft. There were also extra large bags for people with loads of cash (2 slots larger than regular bags) and super large size bags (8 slots larger than regular bags) that only contained certain items, like herbs or gems, which also got larger every expansion. I think this is a great way to do inventory that can scale over time and can fit different crafts. If you want an herb bag and a mining bag, you could have them, but it would cost you 2 of your normal bag slots to get them, which reduces your overall general inventory.


Edited, Feb 18th 2010 3:39pm by Maarg
#18 Feb 18 2010 at 5:33 PM Rating: Good
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Caia wrote:
1.) It's bad for the economy to be able to store all the stuff you've ever picked up. People won't put excess stuff on the AH, and the prices on the AH will be entirely be set by farmers. Without the added supply, prices would be higher (possibly significantly higher). Crafters would then buy the higher prices goods and turn out new goods, but these would be at a higher price as well. Bottom line: In game goods would go up in price (possibly by quite a bit).

2.) While it's technically possible to have an arbitrarily large inventory, its rough on the servers to do so. Get 2000 people on a server with an inventory of 50 each, that's 100,000 calls on the server every time each person open their inventory. Make that an inventory of 500, and it becomes one million calls. There are bandwidth issues making that many calls X times per hour. Again it CAN be done, but its worth limiting inventory space to something much less than 500.


1) I see what you're trying to say, but your logic doesn't add up. You mean to tell me that the only thing keeping farmers from jacking up the price of crafted items is people who sell their "excess items" on the AH for low prices? What are these excess items exactly? You can't convince me that people would just hoard everything and never sell, because then no one would have any money. Besides, we already know FFXIV isn't going to have a standard AH system. On top of that, FFXI's economy had always been massively inflated until inventory expansion became commonplace. Once everyone and their mother started reaching 60+ slots, the recession started. Seems to go against your theory.

2) Each inventory call is one server call, regardless of how many slots you have. Assuming a crude inventory model where each row is a player with 161 columns (player ID, 80 item hashes, 80 quantity values), a full inventory call would be 161 values, which even with 16-byte hashes would only be around 2.5KB (and that's overestimating). So if 2000 people accessed 80-slot inventories simultaneously, the server has to process a whopping 5MB of data. The server doesn't even have to process what those inventory items are, the client handles all that with the hashes. Beefing up inventory space is clearly no big deal, and the server calculations don't even compare to stuff like player/mob positioning, battle calculations, chat, and so on. Even still, that's just a crude database model, I'm sure FFXIV would run on something at least a tad more sophisticated and efficient.
#19 Feb 18 2010 at 7:36 PM Rating: Good
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The logic does add up, sadly, but he didn't explain it too well. If everyone hoarded everything, then the only thing cash would be spent on is the small amount of things sold by the few willing to farm and sell it leading to monetary consolidation and eventually a spike in RMT when the RMT could gouge as they control the resource pool. A game economy works better when the supply keeps up better to demand, and one way to keep supply of available materials up is to incentivize their sale through limited inventory space. It also normalizes the spread of in-game wealth by forcing participation on the part of all parties rather than consolidating it in the hands of those few people willing to sell, particularly early on (and yes, there is a huge tip on how to start off with a bang in a new server economy in these statements).

People have natural hoarding instincts. You just have to look at the save file of the last RPG you played to see this in action. In WoW, for example, I had three accounts with 10 characters per account loaded to the gills with stuff. I hoarded everything, and had multiple private guild banks with full tabs purchased to store even more crap. Now, in doing so it allowed me to become fabulously wealthy, but at the same time I would end up holding onto things that I would never need nor really want just because I could. If everyone had that same ability to hoard everything then server economies would be quite ugly.

Having enough room to function properly in all your jobs is necessary. FFXI implemented this extremely poorly for those that regularly played multiple jobs (on one character just juggling a well geared bard and beastmaster was a logistical nightmare). WoW's inventory system is decent for that game, but you don't do job swaps in that game limiting the need for the storage of equipment for those jobs. I strongly feel that job specific inventories would be an excellent innovation on the part of S-E to address this issue while still allowing them to control "luxury" inventory space in a sane manner.
#20 Feb 19 2010 at 4:06 AM Rating: Decent
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2) Each inventory call is one server call, regardless of how many slots you have. Assuming a crude inventory model where each row is a player with 161 columns (player ID, 80 item hashes, 80 quantity values), a full inventory call would be 161 values, which even with 16-byte hashes would only be around 2.5KB (and that's overestimating). So if 2000 people accessed 80-slot inventories simultaneously, the server has to process a whopping 5MB of data. The server doesn't even have to process what those inventory items are, the client handles all that with the hashes. Beefing up inventory space is clearly no big deal, and the server calculations don't even compare to stuff like player/mob positioning, battle calculations, chat, and so on. Even still, that's just a crude database model, I'm sure FFXIV would run on something at least a tad more sophisticated and efficient.


The server has to look and see what's in your inventory every time you check OR it changes. If it was all handled client side, then it would be exceptionally easy to hack and simply add stuff to your inventory.

And you're right to an extent. 80 slots is easy peasy for any server these days. But, multiply that by 10. 5MB isn't much, but 50MB? With unlimited space, that number goes up and up indefenetly. EVE ran into some problems like this. So far they've managed to streamline things enough to keep everything running smoothly, but its been a concern.
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#21 Feb 19 2010 at 4:12 AM Rating: Excellent
Caia wrote:
Quote:
2) Each inventory call is one server call, regardless of how many slots you have. Assuming a crude inventory model where each row is a player with 161 columns (player ID, 80 item hashes, 80 quantity values), a full inventory call would be 161 values, which even with 16-byte hashes would only be around 2.5KB (and that's overestimating). So if 2000 people accessed 80-slot inventories simultaneously, the server has to process a whopping 5MB of data. The server doesn't even have to process what those inventory items are, the client handles all that with the hashes. Beefing up inventory space is clearly no big deal, and the server calculations don't even compare to stuff like player/mob positioning, battle calculations, chat, and so on. Even still, that's just a crude database model, I'm sure FFXIV would run on something at least a tad more sophisticated and efficient.


The server has to look and see what's in your inventory every time you check OR it changes. If it was all handled client side, then it would be exceptionally easy to hack and simply add stuff to your inventory.

And you're right to an extent. 80 slots is easy peasy for any server these days. But, multiply that by 10. 5MB isn't much, but 50MB? With unlimited space, that number goes up and up indefenetly. EVE ran into some problems like this. So far they've managed to streamline things enough to keep everything running smoothly, but its been a concern.


given how SE loves to make us work for every tiny little detail conceivable, I would be shocked if they just gave us tons and tons of inventory space right off the bat. I totally expect a gobbiebag-like quest(s) in XIV, and a reasonably limited storage space.

That being said, I do hope they'll have learned from XI, in that, as one character can be multiple classes/jobs, storage space became problematic.
#22 Feb 19 2010 at 10:02 AM Rating: Good
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Caia wrote:
The server has to look and see what's in your inventory every time you check OR it changes. If it was all handled client side, then it would be exceptionally easy to hack and simply add stuff to your inventory.

And you're right to an extent. 80 slots is easy peasy for any server these days. But, multiply that by 10. 5MB isn't much, but 50MB? With unlimited space, that number goes up and up indefenetly. EVE ran into some problems like this. So far they've managed to streamline things enough to keep everything running smoothly, but its been a concern.


I said that item info (descriptions/icons/etc.) are pulled from the client. As in, the only thing the server sends to each client is a simple hash that tells the client what that item is (e.g. item 1234). I wanted to make that clear to people who assume that more data is sent with each inventory poll than just ID and quantity.

I'll bring up Second Life. Second Life has millions of users, each with inventories that tend to accumulate tens of thousands of items, all of which are dynamic content (i.e. information about each item can change, so it is stored and transmitted on/by the server rather than the client, such that a request for one item involves the transfer of much more information than it would in FFXI). Of course multiple people can have the same item, so each unique instance is given an ID so that it doesn't take up more space on the server. On any given day, billions of changes are made to inventory, terabytes of information being processed and transmitted. This is all quite easily handled by a dedicated asset server, a separate server (actually a cluster) which exclusively handles all inventory items. And this system has been in place since 2002. You see what I mean when I say there are more sophisticated and efficient ways of managing inventory than just a simple SQL table, and I'm sure FFXIV will be able to accomodate any inventory size the developers decide is appropriate.

Really the matter comes down to economic implications, and I still fail to see where limited inventories are what keep the economy in check. Please provide evidence that expanding inventories leads to inflation, because FFXI's economy has shown otherwise: as average inventory space has increased in FFXI, the prior inflation has come down to a recession.

Hoarding in WoW is natural; you get seasonal items that only come once a year; you can't sell Tier gear (why throw it away if you can store it?); vast majority of non-junk items are soulbound, and whether you store or sell to NPCs is based more on whether or not you care about the silver rather than if you have the space for it. You really can't fairly compare WoW to FFXI, and especially not to FFXIV since we know little about it. And let me repeat, we know FFXIV is not going to have our traditional AH system, so insisting its economy will follow the rules of other games whose economies are based on the exact same AH model used in WoW is just silly. Sure, maybe a massive inventory in those games would impact the economy, but those games were not built around having a large inventory. Why can't a game be built around a massive inventory, such that considerations are made to incentivise the sale of junk items through means other than making sure you don't have room for them? Saying that the economy would turn sour and implying that nothing else could be done to prevent that is not a very good reason to discredit a large inventory system.
#23 Feb 19 2010 at 5:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Really the matter comes down to economic implications, and I still fail to see where limited inventories are what keep the economy in check. Please provide evidence that expanding inventories leads to inflation, because FFXI's economy has shown otherwise: as average inventory space has increased in FFXI, the prior inflation has come down to a recession.


Well, that's a bit like saying since the sky is blue and birds fly, the cause of birds flying is because the sky is blue.

The inflation issues were caused by having more gil being produced than was being destroyed. Just because the price of X goes up doesn't inherently mean that inflation is occurring. It has much more to do with either supply going down OR demand going up.

Now, to answer your question, if more people hold on to things, supply naturally goes down. Supply going down means prices tend to increase. You want an FFXI example? I have stacks upon stacks of various items on my mules. Those will probably not be sold unless I need more room. If I were to sell them, supply would go up and price would naturally go down.

Now, you can argue that one person doing that won't effect much and you'd generally be right. But how many people have mules filled to the brink with stuff? If the inventory space went down, suddenly they'd have to put their stuff on the market (or simply throw it out). Doing so would cause there to be much more supply for those items and the price would go down.

Conversly, if everyone was given 20 new slots for items in their inventory, they would tend to fill those up before putting stuff on the market. This would cause a drop in supply, and prices should go up.

Again, this has nothing to do with inflation, and everything to do with supply and demand and the pack rat mentality that people have.

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Hoarding in WoW is natural; you get seasonal items that only come once a year; you can't sell Tier gear (why throw it away if you can store it?); vast majority of non-junk items are soulbound, and whether you store or sell to NPCs is based more on whether or not you care about the silver rather than if you have the space for it.


Its natural in all games unless there is a VERY significant reason not to hold not to things. Ask your LSmates if their inventories are more than 50% full or not. I'd be willing to bet that 95% or more of them are above 50% full. Further I'd be willing to bet that 75% or more of them have their inventory very close to full and their mog house maxed out. Its human nature.

As for soul binding, that does throw a wrinkle into the supply and demand of such items. Once an item is soul bound its demand drops to 0. IE The item is worthless, except for the cash you get by NPCing it. Even still, I'd bet that most people's inventories are very near full in WoW too. I know mine is.

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You really can't fairly compare WoW to FFXI, and especially not to FFXIV since we know little about it. And let me repeat, we know FFXIV is not going to have our traditional AH system, so insisting its economy will follow the rules of other games whose economies are based on the exact same AH model used in WoW is just silly.


Well, each game will have an economy of some sort, and all economies fall under the laws of economics. Its hardly silly to compare the games to each other so long as we understand what the differences are.

And FF14 WILL have an economy of some sort. Just because SE isn't using a "classic AH" doesn't mean the economy is going to vanish. Goods will pass from one person to another, as will cash. You don't need an AH for that to happen. And, again, supply and demand will set the prices for goods -- even if there isn't an AH at all.

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Sure, maybe a massive inventory in those games would impact the economy, but those games were not built around having a large inventory. Why can't a game be built around a massive inventory, such that considerations are made to incentivise the sale of junk items through means other than making sure you don't have room for them?


Because you can't fight human nature. You can try, but in the end it is very very hard to add enough incentive to get people to NOT do something that comes naturally to them.

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Saying that the economy would turn sour and implying that nothing else could be done to prevent that is not a very good reason to discredit a large inventory system.


Really? "If having a very large inventory system causes the economy to be bad, then it would still be ok to have a large inventory system." You're basically saying that you don't care about the economy with such a statement.

And I'm not even saying the economy would be ruined. I'm merely stating that prices would be higher. Most people want lower prices. Most people dislike higher prices.

Your above statement is unreasonable.

Edited, Feb 19th 2010 6:49pm by Caia
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#24 Feb 19 2010 at 7:18 PM Rating: Decent
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If they had sorted the AH system out it would helped with many inventory problems, only being able to put 7 items/stacks on at a time annoyed me endlessly, having to run around all 3 mules putting stuff on the AH was a pain in the a** to say the least.

I hope this new AH system whatever it may be turns out to be better than the one that was in FF11 and same goes for the mail box :S

Part of the reason hording took place was because people couldn't be bothered to flip over to their mules to sell items, it was quite time consuming if you had several mules.

I don't think large inventory has much effect on the econemy, generally people sell items they don't need to make money, they don't horde items just for the **** of it, unless of course you refer to the previous paragraph.

Edited, Feb 19th 2010 8:28pm by Diakar
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#25 Feb 20 2010 at 7:02 PM Rating: Good
Smaller inventory = higher prices
I would seriously reconsider my methods of making a living in whatever game you play my friend if thats anything but an outstanding thing for you.

I think the AH should be unlimited. storage should be about the size of FFXI mog house and what a person can carry on them should be shortened, since there will be no gear swapping, that shouldn't be a problem either. I agree with the fact that what you are wearing shouldn't be counted against inventory, but it would mess up the system if it didn't.

As long as the purpose and need of mules is eliminated imo its an improvement.
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#26 Feb 20 2010 at 7:24 PM Rating: Decent
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While SE has said it doesn't want mid battle gear swapping it seems that the concern will still be there for on the fly solo-ing. Even in the "A day in the life of" example on SE's own website, it explains that the character changes "jobs" and one would assume you still need to change gear when going from fighting to fishing to smithing.
I don't quite see the need for unlimited storage. But I would like it to be large enough that in later parts of the game I'm not going crazy cause I only have 4 open slots. I want to avoid needing to decide if what the mob drops is worth holding onto each time something new drops.
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#27 Feb 22 2010 at 12:31 PM Rating: Decent
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I think there should be separate gear inventory slots for each job you are leveling. When you swap weapons to change jobs, that gear will also be loaded onto your character.

I would really like to see each job have its own storage slots for gear that do not take away from your regular "backpack" gear slots.

It would defeat the purpose of changing jobs away from your mog house if you can only hold gear for 2 jobs.

I actually hope they also remove the ability to swap gear at all during battle. I didn't like having to carry 2 full sets of gear for my samurai wherever I went. It really took up a ton of space!


Edited, Feb 22nd 2010 1:33pm by Nyu
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