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Any leads on what sort of computer power I will need?Follow

#1 Feb 25 2010 at 11:07 AM Rating: Good
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Any hints on what will be needed for smooth playing? I want to get a fresh computer before release, but don't want to go overboard.
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#2 Feb 25 2010 at 11:22 AM Rating: Default
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They haven't released system specs yet.

Considering that the PC and PS3 versions are likely to be very similar, I would say any decent computer with a decent graphics card will do just fine. If I were you, I would figure out what PC would give you the best bang for your budget and go with it ... There is always a sweet spot where value meets performance right in the middle - you get the most for your money, and unless you're a hardcore frames-per-second junky, there isn't much point spending more.

That spot right now for a gaming PC is around $1000. It'll be a LOT better than a $700 computer, and almost as good as a $2500 computer ...
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#4 Feb 25 2010 at 11:39 AM Rating: Good
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A computer that costs $1,000 if you build it yourself. This covers your CPU, GPU, RAM, HDD, Motherboard and PSU. Other things like a case and heatsink can be included depending on how much you spend on the main hardware. Get a good quad core processor on either the AM3 or 1366 socket and overclock it a little. A good graphics card is essential, get a modern one that isn't to cheap. 4 GB of memory is a good idea. You don't want to use outdated hardware for this because you'll end up with poor performance. Get modern hardware and you'll be able to run ffxiv at max settings with really good performance. One thousand dollars should be the bare minimum you spend on your rig and you better build it yourself! If there's good hardware that you can recycle from another computer then that's perfect and it will save you alot of money.

Edited, Feb 25th 2010 12:42pm by KeeperOfTheStaff
#6 Feb 25 2010 at 11:49 AM Rating: Decent
Jord pretty much nailed it. I don't expect to see hardware requirements posted from SE any time soon, although it wouldn't surprise me to see them post them around the time the beta goes live. Beta testers are going to need to know the hardware requirements before they download the client only to scream and cry if their rig won't handle it, but they might be bound by the NDA not to release those specs to the general public.
#7 Feb 25 2010 at 12:12 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Beta testers are going to need to know the hardware requirements before they download the client only to scream and cry if their rig won't handle it, but they might be bound by the NDA not to release those specs to the general public.


Probably the reason they asked for PC specs in the sign up info.
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#8 Feb 25 2010 at 12:17 PM Rating: Decent
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AMD Phenom II x4 955 cpu: $160.00 (you can get an aftermarket heatsink and overclock for better performance)
radeon 5850 gpu: $320.00 (downgrading will result in the loss of DX11)
Hard Drive: $100.00
Corsair HX650w: $130.00 (good name brand psu is very important to any pc)
ASUS Crosshair III formula or other high end motherboard: $200.00 (You can get a decent $100.00 motherboard)
Crucial Ballistix tracer ddr3 2x2GB(4GB) kit: $115.00 (or brand of your choice)
(shipping fees not included) (make sure your hardware is compatable)
The above should come in at somewhere around $1,000. I highly suggest going with AMD because it will save you money there, the intel processors are a little expensive.

You can use this as an example and just build from there.
***This post has been edited because i can edit a post 100 times before i'm happy with it.*** It depends on what you're going to use this computer for. There'll be lower settings that you can use for ffxiv and i'm sure that'll it will work fine. Companies want their mmorpg to be accessable for people with lower end systems. If you want to get the best possible visual experience and performance out of ffxiv then go with the thousand dollar build. If you just want something that will run ffxiv with decent settings then go for a 700 dollar build. The way i see it is that you're going to be investing a significant amount of your time in ffxiv so you might as well get the best possible experience from it.
(Hardware gets cheaper as time passes)

Edited, Feb 25th 2010 8:58pm by KeeperOfTheStaff
#9 Feb 25 2010 at 12:42 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Beta testers are going to need to know the hardware requirements before they download the client only to scream and cry if their rig won't handle it


I did this with Champions Online, spent 2 days downloading the beta and then my system whimpered and crashed.

I personally have decided to buy a PS3 just for 14. I did the math. Between what it would cost me to buy a new PC since mine probably won't be able to handle it and the cost of a PS3 with a couple peripherals I decided that for the money PS3 was my best option.

Since my system couldn't run CO I'm expecting whatever is in 14 will make my 7yr old alienware Explode.
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#10 Feb 25 2010 at 2:41 PM Rating: Decent
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You folks who talk about $1000 for an upper-middle gaming rig, where are you finding the components from? I fantasy built a $2000 rig that seems to be a good blend of power and affordability by comparison shopping at PC World and other various places like newegg and the like. Are there shops/sites that I'm not aware of where I can knock the 2k down to 1k?
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#11 Feb 25 2010 at 3:03 PM Rating: Good
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LemmingKingXXX wrote:
You folks who talk about $1000 for an upper-middle gaming rig, where are you finding the components from? I fantasy built a $2000 rig that seems to be a good blend of power and affordability by comparison shopping at PC World and other various places like newegg and the like. Are there shops/sites that I'm not aware of where I can knock the 2k down to 1k?


It depends on what you include in your rig. Normally when people list prices for rigs they leave out the price for the monitor and case, assuming you already have those (which isn't always the case). Depending on the case you can spend 100-200 for a good full size and about 150-250 for a good monitor.

Without those you can expect to pay something like this:

100-150 memory (4gigs)
280-290 cpu (i7 860 or 920)
100-150 psu
150-300 motherboard
50-100 hdd
200-400 video card

$1000 for those parts aren't too unreasonable, especially if you manage to find them on sale.

Also, if you are Canadian, we are talking US dollars here, which would significantly change the price.

Edited, Feb 25th 2010 2:06pm by Yogtheterrible
#12 Feb 25 2010 at 3:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Eh, well, main thing I would say is that if your focus is playing FFXIV, then wait until it's released(ish) to build.

What you'll get at a given price point when the game actually drops will be better than what you'd get for the same money now. So unless you need/want the machine for something else now, just hold off.

Presumably, a decent gaming rig now will run it fine. PC games are already typically running at higher spec than consoles (keep in mind, most PS3/360 games run at 720p or so).

There will be better feedback, as mentioned, once the beta goes live n' all. SE may tweak the code as well - though they've historically not optimized for the PC very well.

Quote:
You folks who talk about $1000 for an upper-middle gaming rig, where are you finding the components from? I fantasy built a $2000 rig that seems to be a good blend of power and affordability by comparison shopping at PC World and other various places like newegg and the like. Are there shops/sites that I'm not aware of where I can knock the 2k down to 1k?


You don't magically get the same components for half the price. Newegg is a fine site to order from.
It's more the matter of buying bang-for-the-buck components. Plus it depends on what you're looking at as a build. Most of us have a good monitor or two, speakers, keyboard/mouse, etc, so a $1k build is the basic tower and that's it. Hard to say otherwise with no details.

Offhand though, Microcenter has very low prices on some CPUs for in-store only. IE, i7 920 for $199.99 instead of $280-300.
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#13 Feb 25 2010 at 3:21 PM Rating: Good
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Isiolia wrote:
Offhand though, Microcenter has very low prices on some CPUs for in-store only. IE, i7 920 for $199.99 instead of $280-300.


You have to have a microcenter in the general vicinity in order to get that deal, can't get it online. Plus I'm fairly certain they don't have that deal anymore.
#14 Feb 25 2010 at 3:33 PM Rating: Decent
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"radeon 5850 gpu: $320.00 "

You don't need this.

You don't need 4 GB of ram (though I would just because it's cheap).

I've never spent more than $700 CDN building a PC (not including peripherals and case) and I've never had problems with games. I always buy a higher end motherboard too so I can upgrade later on if need be.

You don't, for example, need a high end video card, a middle of the road card will work just fine. You won't be blazing through massive scenes on the newest shooter with OMFGBBQ settings, but that's not exactly what you're doing in an MMO is it?

In any case, I wouldn't be building a computer for a game that I haven't seen the specs on, just wait for launch.

Edited, Feb 25th 2010 4:35pm by Yodabunny
#15 Feb 25 2010 at 4:20 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
You have to have a microcenter in the general vicinity in order to get that deal, can't get it online. Plus I'm fairly certain they don't have that deal anymore.


As I said, for in-store only. I checked their site prior to posting that, and they still list that price for the 920 for the closest location to me (Fairfax, VA).

Just sayin', that's about the only significant deal I've seen, if applicable.


Quote:
I've never spent more than $700 CDN building a PC (not including peripherals and case) and I've never had problems with games. I always buy a higher end motherboard too so I can upgrade later on if need be.


Well, one way to look at it is upgrading more often instead of going broke. Personally, I've done both...planning on upgrading every 18-24 months is better, IMO, than dropping $1500-2000 and thinking it'll last you 4-5 years.

You'll wind up with a machine that does consistently well with current games, and really spend about the same amount over time.
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#16AliensAreHere, Posted: Feb 25 2010 at 5:36 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I hate to be a prick, but Prime95 says no.
#17 Feb 25 2010 at 7:29 PM Rating: Good
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Don't need to spend more than $500 to build a PC that will run FFXIV well on high settings.

Stick with a DDR3 board. Try and find a board that can be upgraded. I personally use an AMD chipset and went with a Phenom quad core @2.8 ghz.

the 4800 radeon series is a good card for the price, but is not DX11 compatible. However, there is no information on whether the game will support DX11 yet. Most agree that it probably will not on launch or for the beta, but no official word. There is a huge thread about it somewhere.

Again, if you go with an AMD chipset, get a board with DDR3 and the AM2+ socket. This will let you upgrade to an AM3 if you need to.

You can get all of this at just about any computer store. Except for top of the line equipment, it will all be roughly the same price wherever you go. If all else fails, check prices online for bundled deals that they offer and compare that to store prices. You can sometimes save $50-100 with that.

Again, $500 and you can run FFXIV at high settings i'll wager. $700 if you go with an AM3 CPU and DX11 compatable GPU.
#18 Feb 25 2010 at 8:15 PM Rating: Decent
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how come this subject keep pops up every month?
im so sure there are at least 5 threads like this already
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#19 Feb 25 2010 at 8:21 PM Rating: Good
Mostaru wrote:
how come this subject keep pops up every month?
im so sure there are at least 5 threads like this already


Because it takes 2-3 weeks to drop off the first page and after it drops off, nobody sees it anymore.
#20 Feb 25 2010 at 8:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Hard Drive: Samsung F3 250GB *Get 2 of these hard drives and put them in RAID: 0 for double the performance and 500GB* $90.00* ($45.00 each)
Graphics Card: XFX HD 4770 DX10 $100.00* after mail in rebate.
Processor: Phenom II x3 2.8GHz (unlockable 4th core) $105.00*
Power Supply: Corsair TX650w $80.00* after mail in rebate.
Memory: Crucial ballistix tracer ddr3 4GB kit $110.00*
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA790XT-UD4P $95.00* after mail in rebate.

Grand total of $580.00*

I guess you can have something nice for a low price that will run ffxiv with good settings and good performance. I wouldn't copy this if i were you, researching and comparing your hardware and reading reviews is a good idea and i didn't do either. If you want a good six hundred dollar PC then go for something like this.


Edited, Feb 26th 2010 6:26pm by KeeperOfTheStaff
#21 Feb 25 2010 at 8:50 PM Rating: Good
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Currently running

Intel Quad Core 2.6ghz
4gb ram
Nvidia Geforce GT 220 1gb video card

Im almost certain that this pc @ 600$ from microcenter will run the game, maybe not on max but good enough to enjoy it.
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#22 Feb 27 2010 at 3:23 PM Rating: Decent
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My PC cost me C$1200 (although I bought it a few parts at a time over the past 1.5 years):

Core i5 750 (quad core) @ 2.6 GHz w/ 3.2 GHz Turbo Boost
4 GB low-voltage DDR3
WD Caviar Black 640 GB HD @ 7200 RPM (performance over storage space, IMO)
nVidia GTX260 896 MB (DX10.1)
Generic $50 case (liked it cause it has top-facing USB and audio jacks)
Antec TruPower 550 PSU
Generic DVD-RW drive

All together you could build my rig today for probably C$1000 or less. It runs WoW on 'Ultra' settings at 60 FPS. It runs WAR at "Oohhh shiney" at 100+ FPS. I can even play games like Crysis at 45+ steady FPS. Oh and all this is at 1920x1200 resolution w/ full AA.

$1000 doesn't include my monitor, which was expensive. You can get a decent monitor for less than $200, though, if your budget is tight.

Personally, I have money ... but I always strive for "value" where marginally increasing costs meet diminishing marginal returns at a little happy spot :)
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#23 Feb 27 2010 at 5:01 PM Rating: Good
Jordster wrote:
WD Caviar Black 640 GB HD @ 7200 RPM (performance over storage space, IMO)


Caviar Black drives are tasty.

I'm in the middle of researching water cooling options for an i7 920 build with a Radeon 5870...and I thought GPUs were expensive >.<
#24 Feb 27 2010 at 6:05 PM Rating: Decent
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:3 I would love a water cooled GPU.

My fan on the Radeon 4850 HD went out after 6 or so months. It was simple enough to replace the heat sink, but really made me nervous prying off the old one from the card >.<

If you want something dx11 compliant, but don't want to spend 300+ on it, check out the 5770 (or 5750).

It's about $160~ and will run it. You can xfire 2 of these cards and get great perfomance on other games as well. But if your only goal is to play ffxiv on pc, this card should be plenty sufficient.


Also, I've never noticed any effect on my gaming with different hard drives, so I tend to go storage size over quality in general. Going by this, you can get 1 tb for $100 or less some times.

I tend to keep about 100gigs for the OS, and then the rest to either be divided up into 3 sections of 300 or one large section, depending upon what I'm doing.

Why? If I happen to get a virus in the system files, I can still recover some data with relative ease in the partitions in most cases when I hook it up to another computer.

I actually recycled my old E machine computer with a vista OS on it and slaved my terrabyte hard drive after the trial period from the copy of XP ran out and am now running the old E machine hard drive with a terabyte slave. :P
#25 Feb 27 2010 at 6:48 PM Rating: Good
MetalSmith wrote:
:3 I would love a water cooled GPU.

My fan on the Radeon 4850 HD went out after 6 or so months. It was simple enough to replace the heat sink, but really made me nervous prying off the old one from the card >.<


The reason I'm looking at a water cooled setup is actually because The Last Remnant (SE's miserable Xbox -> PC port) is the only game that has ever caused my GPU (also a 4850) to overheat. Here's an example if you're interested. Even though it's in German with dubbed music and the creator sped up the video a bit, if you watch it in HD it's a pretty good demonstration of the kind of load it could produce. After a few sudden hard reboots in the middle of playing the game I decided to run it windowed with the Cataclyst Control Center visible off to the side...my GPU hit 103 degrees C before it forced a shutdown. I don't expect SE to so thoroughly botch the optimization for FFXIV since it's being developed to include the PC from the start and hey, for all I know, it's possible that The Last Remnant was well optimized but simply too demanding for my PC to run it at the settings it was on (I managed some relief from the overheating issues by turning off shadow effects, but still...eep).

Quote:
If you want something dx11 compliant, but don't want to spend 300+ on it, check out the 5770 (or 5750).


I'm not opposed to paying for a 5870, but with the extra price comes a very strong desire to preserve it with adequate cooling. Everything I've read says that a good 5870 runs fairly well with the stock fan but the benchmark temperatures I've seen have still run a bit high for my liking. For water cooling, it's either $130 CDN for a proper full-card water block or slightly less $$$ for separate GPU and memory blocks to put on the card, but that means more torque/weight on the card from extra hoses and more connections meaning lower flow and higher risk of leaks.

Quote:
Also, I've never noticed any effect on my gaming with different hard drives, so I tend to go storage size over quality in general. Going by this, you can get 1 tb for $100 or less some times.


My roommate gave me a hard time for buying a Caviar Black. He couldn't understand why I'd spend the money for 650GB when I could go for more space for slightly less performance, but I don't regret it. It's a good drive...very quiet compared to others I've had and the little performance tweaks here and there add up.
#26 Feb 27 2010 at 7:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Here you go.

You can figure it out from here.
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#27 Feb 27 2010 at 7:21 PM Rating: Default
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xPeekABoo wrote:
Does brand matter?


I bet you could get an emachines (think walmartish brand) and just upgrade the video card and you'd be good to go. Any dual or quad core processor (preferably i5 or i7) and a $200.00 video card will get you to midrange. The emachines PCs are actually pretty good for the money and the upgrades needed to get one to qualify as a low range gaming PC (ie 40 fps Crysis) isn't that costly.

I honestly don't think FFXIV will require more than 2 GB ram, a 9000x series GeForce card, and a dual core processor to run decently.
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#28 Feb 27 2010 at 11:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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The sweet spot for building your own system is around the 600-800 mark, if you get someone knowledgeable to suggest parts to you. If you're paying over $1000 in total for your parts, either:

1) You're buying parts with a capacity larger than you will probably ever need, or:
2) Someone is suggesting parts based on what -they- need, not what -you- need, or:
3) You know what you need and are making informed decisions.

As a general rule of thumb, if you don't know what you need, ask someone who knows what parts to recommend and tell them your budget is 600-800 dollars. If you don't know what "fancy terms" like 128-bit GDDR5 and Crossfire/SLI and AM3/Core i7 mean and you need to ask someone else, then you probably don't need to do anything with your computer that would take the price over 800. If, on the other hand, you know what you're building and you're building it for yourself, the sky is the limit.

Here's your builder checklist:

Case, CPU, Motherboard, RAM, Hard Drive, OS, Video Card, Optical Drive (DVD+/-RW), Power Supply

If you want to build it yourself, you could always try http://www.newegg.com/Store/MasterComboStore.aspx?StoreID=7&name=DIY-PC-Combos which has a selection of combos that are compatible. Make sure you have everything on that checklist though; some combos ay not include a case or may not include a video card, etc...

If you want to buy one off the shelf (shhuuunnn!!!!!), the same price range is fine, you probably won't get as much performance or bang for your buck out of a shelf model, but if you CBA to build it yourself or just don't want to, it's an option. Avoid anything with the word "Integrated Graphics" on it like the plague.
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#29 Feb 28 2010 at 5:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia wrote:
Avoid anything with the word "Integrated Graphics" on it like the plague.


I strongly disagree, that should read "avoid anything with the word "integrated graphics" that doesn't have at least one free PCIx16 slot".

As I mentioned before the E-Machines (and Acers, and some Compaq/HP) models are a good bargain for some one that's scared to build their own. For about 400 bucks you get a case, monitor, usually speakers mouse and keyboard. All you really need for most of those models (assuming you shop good and it has the slots you need) is a video card and in some cases you might want a dedicated sound card. It's not going to blow most PCs out of the water but by the time you're done you have a 600 dollar PC keeping up with the Dell and Sony pre-builts that start around 1k and don't usually include a monitor. FYI I'm talking in store, Dells a bit more generous online... If you have a family member thats a Govt. employee they also have hefty discounts.

You just have to be careful with because sometimes the budget rigs don't have room for expansion (ie max ram of 2-4GB etc...) You can almost always turn integrated graphics off.
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#30 Feb 28 2010 at 10:07 AM Rating: Good
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No way in **** I am going to build a PC for XIV before it is released. I'll be playing on Ps3 for at least the first year, then building a PC once the dust has settled and it will be cheaper to build one with components that have proven to work well with the game.
#31 Feb 28 2010 at 11:52 AM Rating: Decent
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With some proper research and shopping i was able to find some decent parts for about 500$ not including the price that i paid for my 5870....... yikes.

For the 500$, well, $534.40 CDN to be exact. I was able to purchase the following.

I5 750 processor - For gaming this is more then enough for sure.
P7P55D LE Motherboard.
4GB DDR3 Ram.
CNPS 10X Fan, which works well with the mobo.

So that price was not too bad. And with those parts a cpu should run any game with ease for a few years for sure.


And i forgot, these prices are the latest as of last week when i added all of it. Mainly for FFXIV............. ;)

Edited, Feb 28th 2010 12:53pm by Mastra
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#32 Feb 28 2010 at 1:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Was able to build a $600ish computer that can play any game lag free on full graphics.

Gigabyte MA78GM
AMD Athalon 64 X2 Black Edition
4gb of DDR2 ram
ATI Radeon HD4870
500gb HDD
Random PSU

So if your specs fall in this line, you have nothing to worry about.

If your gfx card is a bit outdated, the 4870 is just $150ish, so it won't be much to upgrade.

BTW I hate ppls argument that you have to spend $3000 every year for PC gaming. This was only $600 and will work for at least 4-5 years. If you buy overpriced crap from Alienware and Dell, then of course you get ripped off!
#33 Feb 28 2010 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
MagisTheTaru wrote:
Was able to build a $600ish computer that can play any game lag free on full graphics.

Gigabyte MA78GM
AMD Athalon 64 X2 Black Edition
4gb of DDR2 ram
ATI Radeon HD4870
500gb HDD
Random PSU

So if your specs fall in this line, you have nothing to worry about.

If your gfx card is a bit outdated, the 4870 is just $150ish, so it won't be much to upgrade.

BTW I hate ppls argument that you have to spend $3000 every year for PC gaming. This was only $600 and will work for at least 4-5 years. If you buy overpriced crap from Alienware and Dell, then of course you get ripped off!


I might take a very close look at the PSU. The PC I bought shipped with a 400W PSU and it barely lasted a year and a half. It was a Corsair PSU, too, which is generally a very good brand but it just didn't have anywhere near the power to run a higher end GPU. The really crappy part is that any time I've had a PSU go on me, it usually takes an HDD with it. (I suppose it could destroy more expensive components but still, secondary damage is always a P.I.T.A.) If the PSU is anything less than 500-550W, I'd look very seriously at upgrading it and make sure you get a quality PSU for the wattage. They aren't really expensive, but I've learned my lesson. Motherboard and PSU are the two components you can't ever really sacrifice quality for cost, because the money you save now is going to be money you spend (and then some) down the line when, in the case of a sub-par PSU, something conks out.
#34 Feb 28 2010 at 10:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Remember that you can recycle from OLD pc's. Or is this called upgrading?

Things that will probably be fine moving from old to new:

Power Supply (PSU)
DVD/RW drives
(god forbid) floppy drives
Cases (most Mother boards comes with a special plate for the back. Pop out and put in).
Custom Heat Sinks.


Some idea as to what this will save you:

Case: $35-$120

PSU: $25-50

DVD/RW: $20 (pulled that one out of my rear, not sure what these things cost nowadays. Always recycle em XD)

Heat Sinks: $25-$100 (heat sinks come in a variety of fans with metal and also liquid units. If you can replace a store sink with a custom one, it will generally work better.)

Also, generally speaking, the heat transfer compound that factories use sucks. (this is the paste that you put between the sink and the processor unit).

If you can, I would suggest buying high grade stuff and having the head sinks replaces with better custom sinks or simple remounted.

Overall, potentially $200 or so that you can save if you recycle these basic components. The above are things that hardly ever change on a computer, but simply are offered in more variety in general.

If you have a hard drive you can wipe and recycle for a new PC, taht also saves you around $50.






On the note about on board vid cards:

They don't suck necessarily. The problem is that they eat ram in the same way a hummer uses gas. Whatever the ram is of the on board card, subtract that from the ram you have in your machine. Have a 1 gig ram on board card? take that 4 gig ram on your computer down to 3.

I'm also fairly certain that the on board card splits the ram between 2 processors, a CPU and GPU on the mother board. I may be completely wrong, but i'm thinking this slows down the speed of your RAM, which is why people have problems with store built machines. The ram is usually crap to begin with, but add in the ram being split between two completely different processors, and it sorta kills it.
#35 Mar 01 2010 at 2:18 AM Rating: Good
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Many current video cards have minimum wattage requirements of 400-450 (and I emphasize the word "minimum") and/or amperage requirements on a 12v rail. 3 years ago, I'd say a PSU is a PSU is a PSU but with today's modern video cards, motherboards, and processors, not just any PSU will do the job adequately, if at all.

I just picked this baby up on sale for $50 off (sale just ended yesterday), as part of my new system build, courtesy of Uncle Sam's yearly check.

If you're looking to build your own, I certainly wouldn't advise anything under 500W, -minimum-. Newegg has a nice selection of PSUs in the 70-90 dollar range.

Again, when in doubt, there are places like hardforum.com and overclock.net which have people who, so long as you are courteous and polite, are usually willing to tell you "buy this, this, this, this".
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#36 Mar 01 2010 at 4:17 PM Rating: Decent
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500w Power supply is good, but i guess it all depends on ones view on the video card and its importance. if your into Crossfiring and all that fun jazz, id agree, stay over 500W, but if u want to play it safe, grab a 750W. with that, you will have no worries. a 750W can ru 2 5870's along with some new goodies for your tower as well. But 2 of them is way overkill i think anyway, for both games and your wallet :P
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#37 Mar 02 2010 at 11:37 AM Rating: Default
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Okay wtf ... I made a useful, helpful post in reply to the OP and it's rated "default"?

Is this going to become a karma gangbang like the FFXI site? It's so old already.
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#38 Mar 02 2010 at 11:40 AM Rating: Good
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Jordster wrote:

Okay wtf ... I made a useful, helpful post in reply to the OP and it's rated "default"?

Is this going to become a karma gangbang like the FFXI site? It's so old already.


With 11,000 posts, I can't imagine you've got much to worry about...
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#39 Mar 02 2010 at 11:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia wrote:
The sweet spot for building your own system is around the 600-800 mark, if you get someone knowledgeable to suggest parts to you. If you're paying over $1000 in total for your parts, either:

1) You're buying parts with a capacity larger than you will probably ever need, or:
2) Someone is suggesting parts based on what -they- need, not what -you- need, or:
3) You know what you need and are making informed decisions.

As a general rule of thumb, if you don't know what you need, ask someone who knows what parts to recommend and tell them your budget is 600-800 dollars. If you don't know what "fancy terms" like 128-bit GDDR5 and Crossfire/SLI and AM3/Core i7 mean and you need to ask someone else, then you probably don't need to do anything with your computer that would take the price over 800. If, on the other hand, you know what you're building and you're building it for yourself, the sky is the limit.

Here's your builder checklist:

Case, CPU, Motherboard, RAM, Hard Drive, OS, Video Card, Optical Drive (DVD+/-RW), Power Supply

If you want to build it yourself, you could always try http://www.newegg.com/Store/MasterComboStore.aspx?StoreID=7&name=DIY-PC-Combos which has a selection of combos that are compatible. Make sure you have everything on that checklist though; some combos ay not include a case or may not include a video card, etc...

If you want to buy one off the shelf (shhuuunnn!!!!!), the same price range is fine, you probably won't get as much performance or bang for your buck out of a shelf model, but if you CBA to build it yourself or just don't want to, it's an option. Avoid anything with the word "Integrated Graphics" on it like the plague.


$600? Gaming PC?

$600 will, at best, get you a budget PC w/ moderate gaming capability.

If you're on a tight budget, sure you can get away with it. But your computer will be obsolete much faster, and the overall return on your investment goes down. You can get just past the $1000 before serious diminishing marginal returns kick in (google the term if you're not familiar with it). I actually just finished teaching a unit (I teach high school computer studies) on building a PC, and one of the things the class built was a gaming PC.

IMO, parts costs are in the following ranges:

CPU $200 for a Core i5 or AMD equivalent. Nothing in a quad core will be under $175, and buying a dual core now with more and more developers supporting quad-core processing is just asking for your computer to run next-gen games slowly.

Motherboard $150 - for a decent motherboard with decent on-board sound, the right socket for the quad core CPU above, and a reasonably full feature set. Nothing bottlenecks a PC like a cheap motherboard.

RAM $150 - 4 GB of quality DDR3. Pretty simple. 2GB is not enough for gaming any more. If you're buying a PC that supports DDR2, you're buying a slow PC.

PSU $100+ - I strongly urge people not to cheap out on PSUs. They need to provide uninterrupted, clean power to your PC. More importantly, though, better PSUs will save you a LOT of electricity. With power costs rising, and more and more pressure to be environmentally responsible, a $60 PSU will be anti-green

Graphics Card $200 - This is the most important component of a gaming system. There are decent cards in the $150 range, but you'll lose framerates over a $200 card. Currently for $200 you can get a 216 core GTX260 1800MB card, or (and I might not be remembering the model right) the Radeon 5750 1GB. Both are a LOT better than any $150 card.

That's $800+ and you still need a monitor, hard drive, optical drive, keyboard, mouse, etc.

If money is really tight, $600 builds a decent rig with moderate gaming ability. However, if you have some budget flexibility, you get much better value (in terms of overall gaming experience, longevity, quality/reliability) in a $1000 PC than you do in a $600 PC.


Edited, Mar 2nd 2010 4:03pm by Jordster
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#40 Mar 02 2010 at 11:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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Eske wrote:
Jordster wrote:

Okay wtf ... I made a useful, helpful post in reply to the OP and it's rated "default"?

Is this going to become a karma gangbang like the FFXI site? It's so old already.


With 11,000 posts, I can't imagine you've got much to worry about...


It's not the point ... My 'scholar' status or whatever it's called won't change. The point is that I like to try to foster community and be helpful, and resent when people just click the red arrow cause I once said something that hurt their e-feelings :(

... or something.
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#41 Mar 02 2010 at 12:45 PM Rating: Good
Jordster wrote:

$600? Gaming PC?

$600 will, at best, get you a budget PC w/ moderate gaming capability.


I agree. It might just be a question of semantics, however. For me, a gaming rig is a higher end PC that's designed with performance in mind. A $600 PC that is capable of running current games with medium-high settings doesn't qualify as a gaming rig to me. That's not to say it's a bad PC or a poor investment. I just think that there's a line similar to what Jord mentioned where spending less reduces the overall longevity of the unit and spending more is just pushing the specs beyond what most people would need to be happy with the rig.

Custom PCs are a lot like cars. Some people are happy with a stock compact sedan to get them from point A to point B and there's no harm in that. Some people want a bit more by way of performance, size, features, etc. And then you get into the enthusiast/hobby market where people can sink hundreds if not thousands of dollars into a build over time, adding here, tweaking there, etc. all in the name of aesthetics and/or performance even though what they end up with is so far beyond what anyone ever actually needs for basic transportation that the folks who don't understand the hobbyist side of things just shake their head. Of course, one major difference between a car and a PC is that with cars, they don't double the speed limit every 2-3 years ;D

Can you get a PC that will run FFXIV for $600? Probably. Would it be classified as a good gaming rig? No.
#42 Mar 02 2010 at 1:41 PM Rating: Good
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Jordster wrote:
Eske wrote:
Jordster wrote:

Okay wtf ... I made a useful, helpful post in reply to the OP and it's rated "default"?

Is this going to become a karma gangbang like the FFXI site? It's so old already.


With 11,000 posts, I can't imagine you've got much to worry about...


It's not the point ... My 'scholar' status or whatever it's called won't change. The point is that I like to try to foster community and be helpful, and resent when people just click the red arrow cause I once said something that hurt their e-feelings :(

... or something.


I try not to think of one's karma as a good indicator of whether or not they're a valuable community contributor. There'll always be folk who rate down for little-to-no apparent reason. It doesn't really affect the community in any meaningful way unless you let it. Best to ignore that stuff. : )
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#43 Mar 02 2010 at 3:09 PM Rating: Decent
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AureliusSir the Irrelevant wrote:
Jordster wrote:

$600? Gaming PC?

$600 will, at best, get you a budget PC w/ moderate gaming capability.


I agree. It might just be a question of semantics, however. For me, a gaming rig is a higher end PC that's designed with performance in mind. A $600 PC that is capable of running current games with medium-high settings doesn't qualify as a gaming rig to me. That's not to say it's a bad PC or a poor investment. I just think that there's a line similar to what Jord mentioned where spending less reduces the overall longevity of the unit and spending more is just pushing the specs beyond what most people would need to be happy with the rig.

Custom PCs are a lot like cars. Some people are happy with a stock compact sedan to get them from point A to point B and there's no harm in that. Some people want a bit more by way of performance, size, features, etc. And then you get into the enthusiast/hobby market where people can sink hundreds if not thousands of dollars into a build over time, adding here, tweaking there, etc. all in the name of aesthetics and/or performance even though what they end up with is so far beyond what anyone ever actually needs for basic transportation that the folks who don't understand the hobbyist side of things just shake their head. Of course, one major difference between a car and a PC is that with cars, they don't double the speed limit every 2-3 years ;D

Can you get a PC that will run FFXIV for $600? Probably. Would it be classified as a good gaming rig? No.


Playing off the car analogy ...

If you define a good car as one that can get you from point A to point B, and occasionally drive in a "spirited" fashion, then the Honda Civic does a great job.

If you define a good car as one that is always fun to drive above all else, you'll probably find the Civic quite boring. You'd want to opt for a Civic Si, which costs $10k more, or maybe a GTi, or a used Corvette, or an [insert your favorite $25k performance car here] ... It wouldn't be good value for the person in the first situation, but it's a much better investment for those interested in sport driving.

You can game on any computer with a graphics card, to some extent. However, if you're building a rig with gaming as one of it's main purposes, you are getting poor value in a $600 PC.



Edited, Mar 2nd 2010 4:10pm by Jordster
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#44 Mar 02 2010 at 3:32 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jordster wrote:

$600? Gaming PC?

$600 will, at best, get you a budget PC w/ moderate gaming capability.

If you're on a tight budget, sure you can get away with it. But your computer will be obsolete much faster, and the overall return on your investment goes down. You can get just past the $1000 before serious diminishing marginal returns kick in (google the term if you're not familiar with it). I actually just finished teaching a unit (I teach high school computer studies) on building a PC, and one of the things the class built was a gaming PC.

IMO, parts costs are in the following ranges:

I disagree with a lot of this. Americans, note that I'm using Canadian prices, so USD will usually be about 15% less.

Quote:

CPU $200 for a Core i5 or AMD equivalent. Nothing in a quad core will be under $175, and buying a dual core now with more and more developers supporting quad-core processing is just asking for your computer to run next-gen games slowly.

$200 is a good place (i5 750 or Phenom II X4 965) but hardly essential. For $130 you can get an i3 530 or an Athlon II X4 635. Games are barely using two cores at this point, so by the time you really need four cores those $200 processors will be junk. (The X4 635 actually is a four-core processor, but it's no better for gaming than the i3 530).

Quote:
Motherboard $150 - for a decent motherboard with decent on-board sound, the right socket for the quad core CPU above, and a reasonably full feature set. Nothing bottlenecks a PC like a cheap motherboard.

If you're going with AMD, you can get a top-brand motherboard with every feature you need (AM3 socket, DDR3 support, plenty of ports and connectors) for about $100. For Intel (socket 1156) it's more like $130. If you want a little more future proofing, add $30 to each of those for boards with USB 3.0 and SATA 6 GB/s.

Quote:
RAM $150 - 4 GB of quality DDR3. Pretty simple. 2GB is not enough for gaming any more. If you're buying a PC that supports DDR2, you're buying a slow PC.

Agreed on the recommendation, but you can get 4 gigs of DDR3 for more like $100. I think RAM might have jumped in price again lately, so it could be more like $115.

Quote:
PSU $100+ - I strongly urge people not to cheap out on PSUs. They need to provide uninterrupted, clean power to your PC. More importantly, though, better PSUs will save you a LOT of electricity. With power costs rising, and more and more pressure to be environmentally responsible, a $60 PSU will be anti-green

Agreed there. The main thing to worry about is your PSU frying and taking out something else with it. Keep the $100 price point in mind and look for something 80+ certified (>80% efficient). But time it right and with sales or mail-in rebates you can probably grab a nice one for $50-70.

Quote:
Graphics Card $200 - This is the most important component of a gaming system. There are decent cards in the $150 range, but you'll lose framerates over a $200 card. Currently for $200 you can get a 216 core GTX260 1800MB card, or (and I might not be remembering the model right) the Radeon 5750 1GB. Both are a LOT better than any $150 card.

The HD 5750 actually is a $150 card, but it's a bit on the low end of what I'd go for. You might have been thinking of the 5770, which is a better starting point at $170-190. It's not an amazingly powerful card, but the next step up is overpriced (5830, only slightly more powerful at $250) and the next good value (5850, much more powerful at $320) is twice the price.

NVidia is hardly worth mentioning right now, unfortunately. Old technology, no DX11, poorer price:performance ratio.

If you don't mind an old card, the HD 4870, which someone else mentioned, is another possibility. Cheaper than the 5770 and more powerful. No DX11, but FFXIV won't support that anyway and by the time you really want it there will be much better cards available.

So if we figure $130 for processor, $115 for mobo, $115 for RAM, $80 for PSU, and $180 for video card, we come to something like $620. That's still lacking a case, HDD, monitor, etc., but ****, dig those out of your junk pile or something.

PC game graphics haven't kept up with hardware advances over the last three years. This system will play just about any game out now or on the horizon (Crysis being an exception, but it would still be quite playable) with full settings and 1080p resolution and hardly ever dip below 50 fps. Plenty of less demanding new games like Batman: AA will run at close to 100 fps. Considering the human eye tops out somewhere around 60 fps, that's a pretty good deal.

The machine won't last forever, but since the console and PC markets are so closely tied these days, we're not going to see much of a spec jump in PC games until about 2012 when the new consoles launch. That gives you two years of top performance even if you upgrade at the earliest opportunity.
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