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#102EndlessJourney, Posted: Mar 02 2010 at 11:42 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You're a complete idiot.
#103 Mar 02 2010 at 11:58 PM Rating: Default
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MetalSmith wrote:
Q.Q

*Tissue Issued*

tbh, you sound like you are just upset because you didn't get picked, and the fact that you didn't get picked makes their process of choosing people unfair.


What a compelling argument to that person. If their beta selection process seems a bit off, which so far to a lot of people it does seem that way, your only argument is "lol umad?". At least they made a argument for themselves while all you're doing is making assumptions without even presenting a case to the argument they made. People like yourself are sheep, who can only put others down yet cannot think for themselves.


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at any rate, go away, you will find no sympathy here. I hear the BG forums has a support group though.


This person has been here a lot longer than you, and has honestly made some decent arguments with logic behind them. Seeing some one I've never seen before who is obviously pretty new tell them to go away, what they may or may not find here, is a joke. You're only making an *** of yourself.

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Just as an edited in after thought, what does it matter to you how they do their beta selection? All that matters is that SE delivers with a great MMO.


Wow, did the thought ever occur to you that the two things just MIGHT have something to do with each other? Do you know what BETA testing is? Obviously you don't, let me explain to you what it is. It's TESTING. It means you are testing the game, the mechanics, finding out bugs, seeing how things work, and helping Square Enix decide what to do about them. You are essentially, as I said, "Mini-Developers". People are worried that Square Enix is not choosing these people correctly.

Now again, I do think everyone who wants a chance at BETA should get a chance, but there's a time and place for it. Usually you should start the beta with the most experience people you can get (from different demographics even) and work your way down to more and more diverse people. There is diversity in everyone, person to person, but there are limits and lines that need to be drawn so that the right people get into the right stages. For the very earliest buggiest stages it just stands to common sense that you would want people who know what they're doing.

Let's say you're a auto manufacturer and you are about to release a new series of sports cars but it's still in development. Do you want a Soccor Mom, a 16 year old, a old man and a few average young people test driving it? Or do you want some very experienced drivers/race car drivers testing it, taking it around the track, so they know what to look for since they have experience with this sort of thing? Sure, you'll eventually want the people from different walks of life to test the sports car, but first you PROBABLY should get the experienced drivers so they can really test it to it's limits and know just what to look for.

Again, people don't understand this simple concept. They just want to jump down people's throats for being anywhat angry that Square Enix isn't using a proper process for initial testing so that the product gets the maximum efficiency from the testing as possible. No, we'll just get put down and told "lol u mad?" time and time again while people argue "BUT IT'S SUPPOSE TO BE EQUAL FOR EVERYONE".


Edited, Mar 2nd 2010 9:59pm by EndlessJourney
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#104 Mar 03 2010 at 12:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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EndlessJourney wrote:

Two posts full of ranting.


A couple of points:

1. You have no idea who has been chosen for alpha/beta, nor are you familiar with those individuals' "beta testing qualifications". Yes, I'm sure some casual people got in. I'm sure some experienced people got in too. None of us know for sure.

2. Don't presume to think that you know what Squenix wants in a beta tester. Both of these rants are putting forward YOUR view of what YOUR ideal beta tester would be. You are not Squenix. You do not know what their criteria are for choosing testers. You seem to be inordinately worried that the people chosen won't do what they are "supposed" to. You don't even know what Squenix is testing for, so how in the **** can you even begin to talk about what makes people more qualified than others?

3. You're not helping yourself by posting these rants. You come off as butthurt because you didn't get in, sorry, but it's the truth. Sure, a lot of us would have loved to be chosen, but a lot of us weren't. You know what? It's gonna be ok. There's still plenty of time.

4. Because Squenix has experience with MMOs and testing said MMOs, I'm confident that they're doing what they want to do when it comes to selecting people for testing. I'll let them worry about the feedback they're getting.

I've beta tested quite a few different MMOs. I have years of experience with FFXI. I have a decent computer and a PS3. Trust me, I understand the "simple concept" that beta testing is TESTING, finding bugs, hunting down problems in gameplay, etc. I am content to wait until I receive an invite, because I KNOW I'll get one. EVERYONE will get one at some point. It is not the end of the world if some casual players got in before you. It is not the end of the world if Squenix is letting people with no MMO experience in the beta. You have no idea what is going on, same as the majority of us. All any of us can do is be patient and when we do get in, make sure that we're there to test and help make the game better.
#105 Mar 03 2010 at 12:21 AM Rating: Decent
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EmoJourney wrote:
You're a complete idiot.

Do you seriously think that Square Enix won't follow trends with their new MMORPG that they did with their previous MMORPG?


I for one would rather they didn't. Anyone else?

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From what we've already seen in Alpha Tests we've seen things that already carry resemblance to FFXI. Not only that, but having many many years of MMORPG experience with a MMO they've already developed should be common sense that you will probably have the best ideas of what to look for even in a differing world. I'm sure having some people from WoW or EQ and things like that will be great to, but even then I'd hope they have a good bit of MMORPG experience and know what to look for.


Based on the criteria you feel qualifies you to be a tester (time played, content experienced and availability), the list of people who actually did get in is not as long as the list of people who would be more qualified than you are anyway.

If by chance they need to test their servers against flooding from all of your tears I'm sure you will be called upon.
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#106 Mar 03 2010 at 12:48 AM Rating: Good
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FilthMcNasty wrote:
EmoJourney wrote:
You're a complete idiot.

Do you seriously think that Square Enix won't follow trends with their new MMORPG that they did with their previous MMORPG?


I for one would rather they didn't. Anyone else?



Depends on what trends. I loved most of XI.
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#107 Mar 03 2010 at 12:49 AM Rating: Default
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We actually do have a idea of who was chosen for BETA, if you go read the BG thread you'll get a lot better idea. There were a lot of casual people picked and some people who have deactivated accounts, or haven't played in a long time, or haven't even gotten a job to 75 yet, or some who even have violations against them.

But of course, I didn't get in to the first stages, so any argument I make, no matter how valid it may be is just "Butthurt" and "QQ" and etc etc.

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I for one would rather they didn't. Anyone else?


And of course, people taking what I say out of context, even though I give a disclaimer to it. Once again, when I say "Trends" I'm not talking about timeskinks like Dynamis or events like Kings. I'm talking about things in the game that make it a final fantasy game (mmo). Things you will recognize from one game to another. Traits that the developers have and use, etc.
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#108 Mar 03 2010 at 1:01 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
And of course, people taking what I say out of context, even though I give a disclaimer to it. Once again, when I say "Trends" I'm not talking about timeskinks like Dynamis or events like Kings. I'm talking about things in the game that make it a final fantasy game (mmo). Things you will recognize from one game to another. Traits that the developers have and use, etc.


I believe I read what you said correctly and I didn't mention the specifics you did at all. I would just rather see a complete overhaul than see FFXI-2. With all the recent buzz even the things they do that are breaking trend seem to be less than well recieved by many. Normal boos, hoos and update blues? Maybe... but I played a while ago and honestly can't say that much has changed minus a couple gimmicky additions. Give me something fresh.
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HaibaneRenmei wrote:
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cocodojo wrote:
Its personal preference and all, but yes we need to educate WoW players that this is OUR game, these are Characters and not Toons. Time to beat that into them one at a time.
#109 Mar 03 2010 at 1:06 AM Rating: Good
EndlessJourney wrote:
You're a complete idiot.


I'm not crying because I haven't received a beta invitation. You are.

Quote:
Do you seriously think that Square Enix won't follow trends with their new MMORPG that they did with their previous MMORPG? Something that other MMORPG developers seem to do ALL the time with their MMORPGs? I'm not talking about time sinks or the "Casual Feel". I'm talking about the fact that when a developer creates a new MMORPG it's like a piece of art to them. Even if the MMORPGs are different they carry over traits that the developers use, especially with final fantasy type games, we can see that already in what we have seen of FFXIV gameplay.


You know what I seriously think? I think that you're behaving like a butthurt child. Sack up.

Quote:
From what we've already seen in Alpha Tests we've seen things that already carry resemblance to FFXI. Not only that, but having many many years of MMORPG experience with a MMO they've already developed should be common sense that you will probably have the best ideas of what to look for even in a differing world. I'm sure having some people from WoW or EQ and things like that will be great to, but even then I'd hope they have a good bit of MMORPG experience and know what to look for.


The five minutes of alpha combat footage? Or the fact that there were puks? I know, I know, the people playing the game in the alpha footage did a pretty **** good job of demonstrating how the game works. "Wee! I can chase things with a bow in my hand!" "Sword! Sword! Sword! Random AoE weapon attack! Sword!" Ya, real comprehensive footage there...certainly enough to make a reasonable comparison.

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When you have no experience in MMORPG's you don't know what to look for, if there's anything other than a extremely major bug all you're doing for the devs more or less is giving the game a "test drive" instead of actually knowing what kinds of things to look for.


Do you honestly think that there was any significant portion of the total pool of beta tester sign-ups that had no MMO experience?

You're just being a whiny little dunce. The testing hasn't even started yet. You have no way of knowing if all the alpha invites have gone out and there's no reason to believe any beta invites have gone out. But tell me something, and don't dodge, snivel, skirt, or lie about it: if you had received an alpha invite on Monday and been the only person to show up to the first day of testing with ANY MMO experience at all, do you honestly expect a **** person to believe you'd still be crying about SE's selection process?

I didn't think so.

Shut up.

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I am so god **** sick of some of you acting like "Wah wah you're so butthurt, everyone is equal get over it". This is completely stupid and illogical. I don't care as I said if they are from other MMORPG's, if people have years and years of experience in MMORPG's themselves then yes, they'll know what to look for and what bugs to try to find, how to try to find things that might not work, etc.


So you're more important than other people now?

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As of right now all the "Equal People" who don't have as much experience at MMORPG's are just going to show SE more or less how people play the game and what they might like or dislike or what habits they may or may not have (party dynamics etc) they won't recognize bugs as often or as quickly as people with more experience. Not the type of thing you want in your FIRST stages of beta when you're trying to find bugs and trying to get things working properly. God **** how is this so hard for some of you to understand?


Because what you're trying to say is transparent. Anyone with half a brain can put it through their internal crybaby detectors and all of your posts look like this:

EndlessJourney wrote:
Smiley: cry

#110EndlessJourney, Posted: Mar 03 2010 at 1:27 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Of course it's transparent, because you want it to be. Anyone with half a brain could look at the validity of the argument:
#111 Mar 03 2010 at 1:33 AM Rating: Decent
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AureliusSir the Irrelevant wrote:

Because what you're trying to say is transparent. Anyone with half a brain can put it through their internal crybaby detectors and all of your posts look like this:

EndlessJourney wrote:
Smiley: cry



classic.

apparently only journey can find bugs and the rest of us are just too stupid to find any because we don't spend hours everyday playing FFXI.
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SpinShark wrote:
Yes, what you've heard is true. FFXI's endgame is just a giant E-peen swinging contest, with the majority of time spent standing around, and watching Moon-faced nerds "compare" video game "accomplishments" with each other via flame-wars on forums/in-game.
^^^^^^^^^^^^ So True.
#112 Mar 03 2010 at 1:36 AM Rating: Good
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This is getting ridiculous and I don't really care to sift through multiple pages of this thinly-veiled whinefest while looking for info.

Everyone is probably eventually going to be getting into beta, so this crap is unnecessary. They need people who aren't experienced with XI or even MMOs in general to participate as well. People who don't know what they're doing tend to do some unpredictable things that crash programs.


I get your point but there's really nothing productive that can be done about it. We don't even know the process with which how SE will be determining your exact system specs and or how bugs will be submitted.



Edited, Mar 2nd 2010 11:51pm by Kirbster
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#113 Mar 03 2010 at 1:38 AM Rating: Default
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Pavelbure wrote:
AureliusSir the Irrelevant wrote:

Because what you're trying to say is transparent. Anyone with half a brain can put it through their internal crybaby detectors and all of your posts look like this:

EndlessJourney wrote:
Smiley: cry



classic.

apparently only journey can find bugs and the rest of us are just too stupid to find any because we don't spend hours everyday playing FFXI.


Only me? No, tons of people, tons who didn't get in. Honestly I don't even care so much that I didn't get in, I care that a lot of people who should have got in and could have made better progress didn't. Do I think most of you couldn't find the bugs? No, most of YOU posting on Alla could more than likely. Again, people taking what I say at face value and just making assumptions like "Ohh yeah?! You think you're better than us?" Once again, no. Read what I say carefully.
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#114 Mar 03 2010 at 2:14 AM Rating: Good
EndlessJourney wrote:
Again, all people can do is use the "Butthurt" "QQ" "Cry moar" arguments, over and over and over, because they're right, I'm being a crybaby, and I should just quit while I'm ahead..


FTFY.

Quote:
More insults without any arguments behind them. Just go ahead and macro in the insults I gave at the top. Each time I give you a valid argument hit the macro.


I don't need an argument. You're being a sniveling crybaby. The argument is self-supporting.

Quote:
Do you think I meant we're going to understand the complete game mechanics from those videos? No, I said we can see some similarities between the two games and if there's a few, there's probably a few more. That's the only point I'm making. We already have a game that is a lot like FFXI from what we know, from the first announcements of what the races will be like, to how the starter cities will be handled, they even speak of a "jeuno" type hub city. Honestly, stop being in denial just because it's convenient to your case.


WoW has hub cities. Two of them, actually. Just like FFXI. It has starting cities, too. So does that mean FFXIV is going to be like WoW? WoW has kill count quests, too...that's what they were doing in the alpha footage. Kill count quests. There was also that guy in the beta with a sword and armor. And a chick with a bow. WoW has guys. And chicks. And a lot of them can use swords and bows. I think you just talked yourself out of a spot in the beta. Sucks to be you.

Of course, I know that if someone hasn't played an MMO before, much less FFXI specifically, that might make the transition a bit of a toughie. I mean, FFXI was my first MMO and it took me a solid 9 **** months to figure out that Bastok was a city and I wasn't supposed to try and kill the NPCs for xp. The learning curve was ********************* brutal.

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Well now you're using a extreme there. I don't think just any random Joe with some MMO experience should be chosen for the first stages of beta. Again, it needs to be experienced MMORPG players who know what they're looking for. And once again, there are indeed a few of those that got in, but there are also a lot of -what would logically seem unqualified for beta testing- people who got in as well.


Did you ever think that maybe part of the reason they run betas with thousands if not tens of thousands of people is because they KNOW that not everyone is going to be a good, attentive little tester?

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My argument is that in the first stages the people who get in should be overly qualified. And again, this is for the FIRST stages. Once it goes on, of course you need to add in people from different demographics with differing levels of experience.


Your argument is a farce.

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If I received one but still saw this problem I would probably have a slightly different approach but still be making the same arguments.


No you wouldn't. You'd be dry washing your hands and bouncing up and down in your chair like a 12 year old after a six pack of Red Bull on Christmas morning getting ready to unleash your fanboism on the world. Get over yourself.

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Of course it's transparent, because you want it to be. Anyone with half a brain could look at the validity of the argument:


Ya, and the people with half a brain assessing the validity of the argument see it for what it is: thinly veiled whining.
#115 Mar 03 2010 at 2:30 AM Rating: Default
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Aurelius, since you seem to think you're right and fail at making actual counter-arguments I'm going to stop addressing you. All you can do is keep saying "HEY LOOK AT YOU, YOU'RE A CRYBABY" over and over. Also any arguments you actually do conjure up make little to no logical sense whatsoever from a developing standpoint. Also a lot of your arguments are just you assuming and projecting that you know exactly what I will or won't do, when you don't even know me yourself.

As for there being "Starter cities" anywhere, way to miss my point. I said 3 starter cities, and 1 main hub city to begin with. If I'm not mistaken, it's not exactly like that on WoW, or any other game I can think of. Coincidence? Probably. I think you're simply reading too far into singular phrases like that just so you can try to use them against me.

Again, I'm done with you, if you're not going to make actual arguments that present a logical case it's just wasting my time. Call me a crybaby again if it makes you feel better to.

Edited, Mar 3rd 2010 12:31am by EndlessJourney
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#116 Mar 03 2010 at 3:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Looks like the community has spoken and labeled you a whiner seeing most, if not all, your posts are rated down to default and sub-default.
Just stop it, really.

Edited, Mar 3rd 2010 10:08am by Xiliath
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#117 Mar 03 2010 at 3:18 AM Rating: Decent
EndlessJourney wrote:
Aurelius, since you seem to think you're right


I don't think I'm right. I am right.

Quote:
and fail at making actual counter-arguments I'm going to stop addressing you.


Really? Then what was all the bullsh*t in the rest of your post?

Quote:
Also a lot of your arguments are just you assuming and projecting that you know exactly what I will or won't do, when you don't even know me yourself.


I think your initial contribution to this thread and the subsequent garbage you've contributed since give any reasonable person adequate insight into what's on your mind.

Quote:
As for there being "Starter cities" anywhere, way to miss my point. I said 3 starter cities, and 1 main hub city to begin with. If I'm not mistaken, it's not exactly like that on WoW, or any other game I can think of. Coincidence? Probably. I think you're simply reading too far into singular phrases like that just so you can try to use them against me.


You didn't say anything about "to begin with". You said starter cities and one hub. WoW has starter cities. It also has hub cities. It's not a concept unique to FFXI, and saying that FFXIV's reference to starter cities and a hub means it's going to be like FFXI is a trash argument from a whiny monkey that is trying so hard to recover from a boneheaded snivel post that he's completely lost sight of what matters.


Edited, Mar 3rd 2010 1:18am by AureliusSir
#118EndlessJourney, Posted: Mar 03 2010 at 3:36 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) A few people on Alla =/= "The community". Also everyone knows ratings on this site means jack and if you actually pay attention to them you've already lost the game. If you were to go to BG you'd see most people there are agreeing on the same argument I'm making. Alla is known to be a equality site where it got a reputation for things like "It doesn't matter what job I sub as long as I'm unique and having fun". I'm not saying that's completely bad, but it's a well known fact.
#119 Mar 03 2010 at 3:58 AM Rating: Good
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EndlessJourney wrote:
If you were to go to BG you'd see most people there are agreeing on the same argument I'm making.


Haha, most people? On BG there's a handful of people QQing endlessly about not being selected, and they're more or less being told to shut up because they're being irritating.

Quote:
Alla is known to be a equality site where it got a reputation for things like "It doesn't matter what job I sub as long as I'm unique and having fun".


Yeah, like, in 2004. It's not like BG doesn't have their fair share of morons, either. You're not exactly posting in an exclusive club or anything.

But you can believe whatever you like about people disagreeing with you, such as convincing yourself that nobody is looking at your ingenious arguments instead of just disagreeing with you.

Edited, Mar 3rd 2010 5:01am by Kirbster
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#120 Mar 03 2010 at 4:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kirbster wrote:
Quote:
Alla is known to be a equality site where it got a reputation for things like "It doesn't matter what job I sub as long as I'm unique and having fun".
Yeah, like, in 2004. It's not like BG doesn't have their fair share of morons, either. You're not exactly posting in an exclusive club or anything.
From what I've seen of BG, people tend to think they're smarter than they are. I'm not sure entirely why. Possibly just because they post there and have an elaborate signature and avatar. There are definitely just as many stupid people on BG though.

Personally I think the whole forum rivalry thing needs to die off already, it's too full of complete nonsense on both sides which obscures how incredibly similar the people who post on BG are to the people who post on alla.



As for EndlessJourney, a comparison:

Quote:
We did Wyrm KS99s tonight. I'd consider myself a seasoned veteran of the game who takes special effort to do the absolute most I can on the job I am on. I did not get a Speed Belt on my orb. **** SE to **** for wronging me like this.


Do you understand how insane this sounds?

Random number generators do not bend to a superior willpower or attitude. They just generate numbers randomly.




Edited, Mar 3rd 2010 4:40am by bsphil
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#121 Mar 03 2010 at 8:25 AM Rating: Decent
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I think people have gotten lost in the trolling. I, for one, have not complained nor cared about not getting into Alpha/Beta/Gamma/>Insert Elite Testing phase here< but I think that Patient made a completely valid argument and, while he may be butthurt about not getting in, was expressing sincere concerns about the Beta application. While not having anywhere near the same experience as he does, I honestly found it hard to take the Beta application seriously, which is how I knew it would be a while before I got in. This is not because I felt it wasn't "geared towards people who actually deserve to test the game," because I wouldn't consider myself one of them, but because I knew the questions were so 'however you want to describe them' that the likelihood of my name being pulled out of SE's magical magician's hat were slim to none. While I am sure SE knows what they are doing, their Beta application comes off as less than brilliant, and while it honestly does not bother me in the slightest, what Patient expressed did not sound like a whine-fest to me.

Instead of taking this time to continue to address EndlessJourney's previous complaints and already-known standpoint, I'm disappointed the direction of the conversation did not at least give Patient the credit to agree he shouldn't just be lumped in with the rest of the "crybabies."
#122 Mar 03 2010 at 10:20 AM Rating: Decent
The problem with his argument is that they didn't solely pick people with the issues he stated:

Quote:
There were a lot of casual people picked and some people who have deactivated accounts, or haven't played in a long time, or haven't even gotten a job to 75 yet, or some who even have violations against them.


Just because a few people in that boat posted that they got into the testing, you cannot extrapolate that to the entire rest of the group. Also, just because someone doesn't have a 75 in ffxi, doesn't mean they have never played to endgame elsewhere, and if they haven't played ffxi in a long time, it doesn't mean they aren't in another mmo that might give relevent experience and basis for opinions. These just aren't a great arguments.

Btw, I would be interested to see people trying to break the game while it was in alpha/ beta, maybe we'd have fewer problems with bots etc at the beginning, I still remember the hoards of fishers when I first logged into ffxi in '04 and I kinda miss them because Windurst always seemed full where it's empty now lol (not the inflation tho, I don't actually miss that please don't beat me). And maybe, get some of the toys included that SE hadn't thought of such as was done for ffxi by a few enterprising people rather than leaving them to be illegally added later. So yeah, bring on the violators let's see wtf they break. :P
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#123 Mar 03 2010 at 11:52 AM Rating: Decent
Bluefirefly wrote:
I think people have gotten lost in the trolling. I, for one, have not complained nor cared about not getting into Alpha/Beta/Gamma/>Insert Elite Testing phase here< but I think that Patient made a completely valid argument and, while he may be butthurt about not getting in, was expressing sincere concerns about the Beta application. While not having anywhere near the same experience as he does, I honestly found it hard to take the Beta application seriously, which is how I knew it would be a while before I got in. This is not because I felt it wasn't "geared towards people who actually deserve to test the game," because I wouldn't consider myself one of them, but because I knew the questions were so 'however you want to describe them' that the likelihood of my name being pulled out of SE's magical magician's hat were slim to none. While I am sure SE knows what they are doing, their Beta application comes off as less than brilliant, and while it honestly does not bother me in the slightest, what Patient expressed did not sound like a whine-fest to me.

Instead of taking this time to continue to address EndlessJourney's previous complaints and already-known standpoint, I'm disappointed the direction of the conversation did not at least give Patient the credit to agree he shouldn't just be lumped in with the rest of the "crybabies."


The time to critique the beta application was within a couple of weeks of it having been made available. If it had been done at that time, it might have made for some lively discussion because at that point, nobody had really experienced any "negative" consequences as a result of it. All the information needed to critique the selection process was available then, from the types of questions asked, the absence of a DXDiag scan report, and the notation that participants would be selected at random. Months after the fact when people woke up Monday morning with their life depending on an e-mail with an alpha invite only to come back and whine about the selection process is a little ridiculous. And this first batch of sniveling makes me happy that there's an NDA forbidding those accepted to the beta from discussing it. I can just imagine the rant posts now. "WTF SE?!?! Only four hours of testing this week? WTF do you think I'm not paying for?" Followed by, "GDI can't log in to test this week?!?!? Servers overloaded?!?! WTF SE?!! Get your servers sorted out!!!! This is *****************

And on...

And on.......

And on............

It's not unexpected, but it is unnecessary.
#124 Mar 03 2010 at 11:55 AM Rating: Good
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I smiled thinking about all of the potential posts about the alpha servers being closed for maintenance during EU prime time.
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#125 Mar 03 2010 at 1:17 PM Rating: Good
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AureliusSir the Irrelevant wrote:
The time to critique the beta application was within a couple of weeks of it having been made available. If it had been done at that time, it might have made for some lively discussion because at that point, nobody had really experienced any "negative" consequences as a result of it. All the information needed to critique the selection process was available then, from the types of questions asked, the absence of a DXDiag scan report, and the notation that participants would be selected at random. Months after the fact when people woke up Monday morning with their life depending on an e-mail with an alpha invite only to come back and whine about the selection process is a little ridiculous.


While I do see your point, it doesn't really apply to everyone. I, for one, was not a member of this board back when the Beta was made, whether I applied to be a tester or not. People had also been applying for the Beta up until recently, if not still, which in my opinion would leave the topic open longer than simply two weeks after it being made. For me, Patient brought up a point that I may have discussed had I been on ZAM back in December when I applied. Once again, I honestly did not wake up Monday and morning and scurry to my mailbox because I have other things on my mind, I was merely pointing out the validity in his argument, despite it coinciding with the fact he was not chosen (that we know of).
#126 Mar 03 2010 at 1:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Holy sh*t, will you all just ignore QQEndlessJourney? Just by arguing with him, you're lending him credence. So, we/he/you didn't get an invite. Just move on, it may be in your mailbox next week, or the next, or maybe in May. I'd be happy to get in whenever, just so I don't wander lost for hours in Windurst like I did the first day in 2003.
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#127 Mar 03 2010 at 2:08 PM Rating: Excellent
On the bright side of not having received an invite yet, FFXIII will pass the time nicely until it does come lol.
#128 Mar 03 2010 at 2:44 PM Rating: Default
Bluefirefly wrote:
While I do see your point, it doesn't really apply to everyone. I, for one, was not a member of this board back when the Beta was made, whether I applied to be a tester or not. People had also been applying for the Beta up until recently, if not still, which in my opinion would leave the topic open longer than simply two weeks after it being made. For me, Patient brought up a point that I may have discussed had I been on ZAM back in December when I applied. Once again, I honestly did not wake up Monday and morning and scurry to my mailbox because I have other things on my mind, I was merely pointing out the validity in his argument, despite it coinciding with the fact he was not chosen (that we know of).


There's a fine line between an objective critique that leads to a discussion and irritated whining from someone who is disappointed at not having gotten their way. There's also a fine line between a credible critique and uninformed kvetching. When the "critique" starts leaning too heavily towards the "kvetch" side of things, the valid, objective aspects of the argument tend to be lost in whining. Patient brought up a point, yes, and I left that post alone because for the most part it seemed fairly objective (not to say that I agreed with it...I just didn't disagree enough or so vehemently to comment on it.) Unfortunately, the last paragraph had to contain this little gem:

Patient wrote:
Seriously Square, get your @#%^ing head out of the clouds and stop wasting peoples time with questions like that. The poorly designed application in conjunction with a extremely confusing and yet to be answered process of exactly what the "Alpha/Beta/Closed Alpha Vanafest Secret Bonus Stage/Beta Site" are leads me to believe that they actually have a huge in-house or outsourced testing capability and this entire Beta is more of a preview to instill excitement about the game and not for actual testing.


That's more than an objective critique. That right there is where Patient tipped his/her hand and crossed the line from commentary to complaining. There's a bit too much vehemence in there to label it as objective, and what's worse is that the apparent confusion over what entails the closed alpha/beta/etc. demonstrates that the poster is uninformed. It has been explained by SE. It has been discussed here. You know what I do when not understanding something is bothering me? I find the answer. I don't simply assume that someone else has dropped the ball because I don't understand. In most cases, the information is out there if you take a few minutes to track it down. When you don't do that, or you fail to understand the information that has been presented to you and then turn around and lambast someone else for it, you lose credibility. And in the absence of credibility, all that's left is whining.
#129 Mar 03 2010 at 3:10 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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AureliusSir the Irrelevant wrote:
"WTF SE?!?! Only four hours of testing this week? WTF do you think I'm not paying for?" Followed by, "GDI can't log in to test this week?!?!? Servers overloaded?!?! WTF SE?!! Get your servers sorted out!!!! This is bullsh*t!!!"
Maybe if someone got in who was a total f*cking ******. Or if the game remained in that state up through retail.

Otherwise I doubt it.

Edited, Mar 3rd 2010 3:15pm by bsphil
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#130 Mar 03 2010 at 3:32 PM Rating: Decent
bsphil wrote:
AureliusSir the Irrelevant wrote:
"WTF SE?!?! Only four hours of testing this week? WTF do you think I'm not paying for?" Followed by, "GDI can't log in to test this week?!?!? Servers overloaded?!?! WTF SE?!! Get your servers sorted out!!!! This is bullsh*t!!!"
Maybe if someone got in who was a total f*cking ******. Or if the game remained in that state up through retail.

Otherwise I doubt it.


Judging from the number of people here who have failed to comprehend what we've already been told, I think there would be more than enough ************* retards" to start threads like that.
#131 Mar 03 2010 at 5:47 PM Rating: Good
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EndlessJourney wrote:
Let's say you're a auto manufacturer and you are about to release a new series of sports cars but it's still in development. Do you want a Soccor Mom, a 16 year old, a old man and a few average young people test driving it? Or do you want some very experienced drivers/race car drivers testing it, taking it around the track, so they know what to look for since they have experience with this sort of thing? Sure, you'll eventually want the people from different walks of life to test the sports car, but first you PROBABLY should get the experienced drivers so they can really test it to it's limits and know just what to look for.

Again, people don't understand this simple concept. They just want to jump down people's throats for being anywhat angry that Square Enix isn't using a proper process for initial testing so that the product gets the maximum efficiency from the testing as possible. No, we'll just get put down and told "lol u mad?" time and time again while people argue "BUT IT'S SUPPOSE TO BE EQUAL FOR EVERYONE".


I'll fix your analogy for you: They're not making a series of sports cars. A sports car here, is analogous to a game solely for hardcore players: it's of interest to a select niche of consumers. Rather, FFXIV might be better compared to a more non-specific car. It's intended to be of interest to a wide variety of consumer demographics. I'm sure they'd love to have some soccer moms playing it.

To continue your analogy, but with a different car:

Say you're designing the new Toyota Camry. You mistakenly think that the best way to test it is by having a hardcore group of, as you put it: "experienced drivers/race car drivers" drive test it. Their feedback will be geared towards optimal driving performance, no doubt. But now you run the risk of getting preliminary design feedback that's geared towards a high-performance sports car, or a race car. At the least, you miss out on the feedback from key potential members of your testing demographic: casual drivers, or poor drivers, or maybe even people who generally don't like Toyota Camrys (you may be looking for ways to win some of them over). Each of them might have some unique criticisms, criticisms that are sure to differ in many ways from those of a more niche group.

Your belief that SE should get the most hardcore FFXI players because they will be better at bug-testing in some way is simply not correct. Now, they undoubtedly do have a strength in beta testing. But they're clearly not being discounted in the beta selection. Far from it. My point is that the inclusion of some casual players is by no means a mistake.

Having your beta player base composed 100% of hardcore FFXI players would be foolish. But I'm guessing that if they did just that and you still didn't get in, you'd still be upset.

Edited, Mar 3rd 2010 6:50pm by Eske

Edited, Mar 3rd 2010 6:52pm by Eske
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