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Leaked Information: Why or Why not?Follow

#1 Mar 02 2010 at 12:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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I proposed this question while my husband and I ate lunch together. With FFXIV entering Alpha/Beta trails rather soon and also with SE already cracking down on ZAM for even giving a description of a secret video from VanaFest, what does this hold for information being leaked from the trails?

My husband's response was simply that SE doesn't want to mislead the outside world about their upcoming title. They don't want people to see what could hinder their choice about the game or not. Now, with that being said; I can agree that it would be bad publicity for unfinished game to be viewed by the public. For example, there were already complainers out there about the leaked Gamescon footage with SE clearly stating that it was only 50% complete and in Alpha phase.

What I am asking the ZAM community today is whether or not despite what I've said above if you believe that information should be leaked or not? What kind of info do you want to know about? What do you want to see or what don't you want to see?

A side question: SE is watching all the major FFXIV reporter sites, and ZAM is no exception. IF footage/info is to be released where will we find out about it? How long will the info be available? Who will be there to notify the community?

My Answer: I want to see the good parts of the game leaked, I want to see some extensive Char Creation images/info/vids. I also want to see how Combat will work and the other quirks of the game. Glitches and bugs are funny, they won't deter me from playing the final product but I don't want to hear about characters clipping into the ground or things like that.

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#2 Mar 02 2010 at 1:05 PM Rating: Good
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I want to see as much leaked info as possible, as long as it doesn't contain spoilers of the game/story.
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#3 Mar 02 2010 at 1:44 PM Rating: Good
The issue is one of policing. If SE were to allow any sort of leaked details, there would be a broad mix of objective information (ie. combat mechanics, details on how guildleves, character progression and crafting work, etc.) and an enormous amount of subjective opinion. The objective information can change at the drop of a hat as SE tweaks and tunes the game for retail release. The subjective information could range from glowing reviews to, "This game suxx don't waste ur time." Either way, allowing information to be leaked stands as much chance of harming the game as it would of helping it, so as a developer how do you manage the information? The easy answer is that you don't allow people to leak information that would require managing. Problem solved.

If I don't get a closed beta spot I'm content to wait for the open beta. Open beta, despite still being a platform for final testing, is more about having a chance to try the game before it hits retail shelves so you can decide whether or not you want to buy it. Closed beta is about the testing and feedback but you gotta know that 90% of the people in the closed beta just want to play the game and have no intention of offering feedback or submitting bug reports each time they encounter a glitch or something doesn't work the way one might expect it to. I don't want 9 out of 10 people giving biased reviews about a game thinking that they're playing an exceptionally buggy final version.

In the end, if I need to curb my enthusiasm until a month or two before retail launch for the sake of making an accurate, informed decision, so be it. We're starting to see a lot of impatient excuses and whining cropping up from people who just can't seem to wait to get their hands on the game and it's already getting old. I don't plan on being one of those people.
#4 Mar 02 2010 at 1:51 PM Rating: Decent
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I have a better idea...why doesn't SE actually just give us what they want us to know about combat/class/etc info instead of having to battle the NDA. If enough information was given not only would the beta members be less likely to say anything, but as well those not in beta would be content with the info given and not hound beta members for it.


SE will start testing out the new magic classes...before the beta client update is done they update their site with magic info. Now instead of beta members divulging magic class info, SE is the one doing it and dictating what is being said. Problem solved.
#5 Mar 02 2010 at 1:56 PM Rating: Good
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I would love to see any and all leaked information, personally. I've never paid much attention to the plots of MMORPGs (they're just not what I go to the genre for), so there isn't really much in the way of spoilers to worry me there. I also have a real interest in game development, so I like to watch how a game evolves as it goes through these early stages. I like to think that I can keep the early-build hang-ups in perspective, and realize that it's not necessarily indicative of the game's final build quality. So I'll take anything I can get.

I fully understand the logic behind the NDA though. I won't be sweating it if we don't hear anything from the closed beta. Though some official updates from SE are seriously overdue.
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#6 Mar 02 2010 at 2:00 PM Rating: Good
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What you want, is generally what you get (and what I want to hear).
It makes sense, right? People want to know about the game, and aren't really interested in the trivialities that are bugs unless they just so happen to be funny or amazingly game-breaking. So we'll gossip endlessly about the structure of Guildleves but essentially ignore the two planes zfighting on the southmost wall of Gridania.


Should it be leaked...is a really sticky question.
(This is a developer roundtable on massively that touches a bit on what I'm about to say)

As much as the bug testing potential of hundreds of thousands of people trumps even the best company's QA, first impressions make or break a game. They tried NDAs for a while to have their Beta cake and let PR eat it too, and split the betas between Developer Beta (Closed) and Marketing Beta (Open) which did a fantastic job of curbing media outlets but did next to nothing against individuals. Slowly but surely, Marketing has taken a command control of both Betas. Marketing knows very well that people get excited gossiping over secrets, so a situation which the NDA keeps the information Taboo but human nature makes it pseudo-available plays into their hands perfectly. However, a game with actual bugs and in need of honest gameplay revisions doesn't.

What remains of Beta today is more Hype Engine fuel than honest-to-god testing. (not to imply testing has died out completely, just overshadowed by ulterior motives).

So, should you? Actually I don't know. There's something about Squeenix's moves, especially with the willingness to show a public Alpha at Gamescon, that kind of adds an air of "No, I actually mean it" to their actions. If devs want to go back to the days of public testing, I actually think that's much more efficient. Then again, if it's in Marketing's hands, not only is leaking likely - in a twisted way it's expected. Personally I'm going to try my damnedest not to contribute to the rumor mill in case they really are serious (but I'll still be selfishly enjoying what other people leak :p ).



Edited, Mar 2nd 2010 3:11pm by Zemzelette
#7 Mar 02 2010 at 2:09 PM Rating: Decent
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I think SE are simply protecting their investment/venture as much as possible until its released. Leaked info (when a game is at this stange in development) is usually not true to what the finished product will be. We accept the fact that all MMOs out there are never actually finsihed because they incorporate a kind of open-ended finale meant to branch into the next chapter once it's been writen. So when they say the game is only 50% complete at the time the footage was leaked its usually right, but they STILL come under-fire for not producing the finished/polished product, despite the fact they haven't!

More than these reasons however is I think it gets the hype they need, its all about getting the word out there that they're making a new MMO but labelling it 'top secret' adds a bit of mystery and being Humans, we just NEED to know more because of the fact.

SO I think its a mix.

1: It keeps the advertising (good or bad) firmly under SE's control.
2: Mystery makes it a more desirable product.
#8 Mar 02 2010 at 2:12 PM Rating: Good
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I think WAR was destroyed by promises they made during beta about launch but failed to accomplish. Mythic was very up front about a lot of what it was doing and planning to do with WAR and even though most of what they had promised they kept eventually, it cost them not having it when they promised (at launch). In this sense keeping all information from the public would be a good way for SE to avoid the trouble Mythic found themselves in. Keep the public from knowing anything at all and they'll have no expectations. You get to a point, though, where you cut off the public so much that they lose interest and don't buy the game at all. So I think there needs to be some kind of balance between the two.

I probably wont buy the game unless I can play it beforehand so honestly I don't care what they publicize as long as I'm in beta (be it closed or open) eventually. I wouldn't mind learning more about the combat and careers right now, though.
#9 Mar 02 2010 at 2:23 PM Rating: Good
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SE hasn't told us hardly anything and hasn't promised anything. I like it.

I hate games that promise things and then don't deliver almost as much as I hate it when games go and release a retail version of an incomplete game. about 90% of the new mmo's i've seen should probably have been in beta for another 3 months or at least had the rest of their content added in instead of assuming they could release it and then not have content for the first month cause no one would make it that far in the game...
#10 Mar 02 2010 at 2:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Seems this discussion is going quite well, I'm happy. I have to admit I was expecting a lot of backlash but the reactions are nicely mixed. Personally I don't want to be admitted into Alpha or Beta, my reason being is that I want a finished product. During these phases of testing a lot is going on, a lot of mechanics that one could experience during the testing phase could very well be removed before the final product. With FFXI during beta Alpha/Beta trails there were a very areas taken out of the game in general that still have remnants in the final product.

Example: Bastok's monorail system/the area that would have contained a chocobo forest.

Back on topic though, I wish to relieve a steady flow of info during Beta trails. I believe a weekly/monthly journal should be produced on the Beta Tester Website talking about what they are experiencing, of course with regulation of Square Enix.

On another note, a lot of posters are answering my questions except the one about where would we receive said leaked info. Lets here those ideas!
#11 Mar 02 2010 at 2:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Unfortunately, leaked information is going to happen no matter what Squenix does. The last few days have been a poignant reminder of that. The question then turns from whether or not to leak, to whether or not we as a community will consume the leaked information. For a lot of people, there's no question, and as soon as information is released, they'll be there, regardless of the source. For other people, they'll remain on the moral high-ground and refuse to look at anything that hasn't been released by Squenix.

It's a situation similar to spoilers for your favorite tv show or movie. For instance, LOST is currently filming the very last episodes that there will ever be for the show. Spoilers are flying fast and furious over the interwebs, and people are eating them up like candy. Other people are staying away from them like the plague, wanting to keep the experience pure. In a situation like this, it's all about how you want to handle the information and whether or not you want to remain in the dark. LOST, however, isn't selling anything other than air time for commercials, so having spoilers leak out isn't harming profit (or at least not enough to clamp down on security).

Squenix, if they want to get the most bang for their buck on release day, is going to have to police leaks strongly. As others have said, leaks for other MMOs during beta periods have made or broken games, and Squenix knows this, I'm sure. It does seem though, that Squenix is being smart with the betas, and are only using a very small portion of the game for testing. The devs have said that only 10% of the story/game will be used in beta, leaving the rest to be discovered on release day and beyond. This is incredibly smart of them, and hopefully will help to remove leaks before they happen. Unfortunately though, they will, no matter what Squenix does. It then becomes a question for us, the consumers, as to whether we'll check out the leaks, or stay away from them as Squenix wants us to.

Leaks also bring up the question of validity. It's easy to watch a video of gameplay and verify what is going on. It's much harder to read an account of gameplay and trust that what is being written about is what is really happening. It would be very easy for someone to hop on a forum and write all of these lovely or hateful things about the game, only for them to turn out to be completely false. Something like this could irreparably harm the game for many players.

I think the safest bet is to stay away from leaks and leakers, and wait until we can participate ourselves. It won't be that long, and exercising patience is never a bad thing. I want to know about the game as much as anyone else, but I want to experience it for myself, and not have to live through someone's secondhand account that may or may not be true. For me, just like with LOST spoilers, I'm trying to stay away until I can be in the game myself, because I want the experience to be pure, and my own. It's just a matter of time and a small expenditure of self-control.

#12 Mar 02 2010 at 3:35 PM Rating: Decent
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I want to know everything and more. Solid info that will end the various speculations, about, yeah well about everything. I really look forward to the various blogs, pics and vids that will be available on the internet in a short while. I will have a field-day this month to come. =)
#13 Mar 02 2010 at 3:36 PM Rating: Good
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I think there's something voyeuristic about seeing leaked info from closed betas. Like you know it's wrong, but it's hard to resist.
#14 Mar 02 2010 at 3:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Personally, I don't see anything wrong with obtaining information that is leaked because you're just going to find out anyways when the game is released. I'm interested in finding stuff out ahead of time minus the story.

People compare this stuff to movie spoilers but I think it's totally different. Spoiling the 5 mage jobs is completely different from spoiling the first 10 minutes of the story in ffxiv. They'll tell you the mage jobs before the game is released, they won't tell you the entire story though. Besides that point, if you don't want to know this information, don't look for it.
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#15 Mar 02 2010 at 4:57 PM Rating: Good
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I can't wait until we get some official info so then we can talk about that instead of leaked maybe not 100% correct info. Either way I think/hope some info will be coming after FFXIII comes out next week because their probably waiting to get that game out first. Whatever the case back to waiting.......
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#16 Mar 02 2010 at 5:36 PM Rating: Decent
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It's a simple situation. Customers always want all information leaked. Businesses never want any information leaked.
#17 Mar 02 2010 at 5:41 PM Rating: Decent
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I guess SE didn't want to reveal the trailer, because then they wouldn't have anything for their next FFXIV show.
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#18 Mar 02 2010 at 5:41 PM Rating: Decent
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I prefer some information leaked.. at least the information that will help me make a decision as far as which area to start in (if you get different benefits for this) and available character models. With that said:

I appreciate the sacrifice you are making in keeping this quiet and I think that it is understandable because you wanted to have someone to talk about the beta with.

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#19 Mar 02 2010 at 7:04 PM Rating: Decent
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i'm kinda mixed on this im for info shown to a group of people but if the group agrees to nda then i would respect that
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#20 Mar 02 2010 at 7:21 PM Rating: Good
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Right now I am all about seeing new info, but I don't want to get too much. The person who brought up LOST poses a great example. I am an avid fan of that show and after the season 5 finale I read Lostipedia because I was so confused (stay the F away from this site if you want to enjoy LOST) and saw some theories. When season 6 started up I was totally unsurprised by many of the big answers in the premiere because I had read and formulated my own theory which in the end was correct.

FFX was my favorite game ever, and I attribute that to knowing nothing about it when I bought it (my first FF). When FFXI came around I was not in to researching video games online, and simply bought it because I liked the previous Final Fantasy. It too was incredible playing for the first time and know absolutely nothing. Honestly I am excited to see the battle system and look at screen shots of the cities and such, but I don't want to see entire areas explored right before my eyes unless it is me exploring them.
#21 Mar 02 2010 at 7:31 PM Rating: Good
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Officially, I don't want the NDA broken.

Unofficially, I will be scouring the net for any possible leaked info on Disciplines of Magic.
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#22 Mar 02 2010 at 7:48 PM Rating: Decent
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My favorite line to say when that ventrilo channel was running was "I can't really talk about that at this time" when we were talking about ffxiv stuff. We were always joking around like that in there. Does anyone know what happened to the owner of that ventrillo server?
#23 Mar 02 2010 at 11:22 PM Rating: Good
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The main problem I believe SE has with regards to leaking information is not so much the consumers gaining access to the information, but also other companies. If you have a completely unique and interesting system that is in your new MMO, you don't want the competition getting wind of that idea and it's implementation prior to the launch of your game. To do so allows them the resources they need (time) incorporate that system into their game.

Lets say that there was no auction houses in any MMO to date, instead there was only trading. If a new MMO was to house a brand new auction house system as a critical component of the game, a selling point as it were, then having the competition construct a similar auction house feature will prevent people from flocking to your game if they saw that as an advantageous enough system.

There is, of course, the consumer impact. Poor decisions are made throughout life, and the development of a game is no different. Testing of a game is not only to root out bugs and things that work incorrectly, but get feedback on components of the game that may or may not be to the liking of the general public. A quest that requires you to kill 999,999 monsters in order to progress, for example, may look like an interesting enough quest during a 72 hour fatigue driven working stunt, but in reality most people would say that that is completely unrealistic a goal. If a leak was to expose this poorly thought out quest, it would stand to human nature to extrapolate this flaw to all aspects of the game yet unknown. Ultimately in the release version, all traces of the quest in its entirety may have been reworked to grant a pleasing experience, however, the stigma would be hard pressed to be erased.

I believe that information should not be leaked, at least not in a "perfect world." I believe that information will be leaked, at least I don't think that this is a perfect world. I would imagine that things like combat system, magic system, class systems, and other fundamental systems would be the target for information breaches. Areas and storyline are not exceptions, possibly some items to showoff graphics and/or possible attributes. Just about anything and everything that is worth knowing about will probably be leaked.

I could only imagine that SE will be watching who and what is leaked, they will demand that classified information be taken down and for the most part the communities will comply (at the very least the large company based ones). It's going to be a "whack-a-mole" type game with leaks popping up everywhere and SE and fan sites cleaning up leaks as they find them. Forums will play a popular role in distribution of leak without a doubt, as well as people spamming search engines for any possible thread of relevance.
#24 Mar 03 2010 at 3:11 AM Rating: Decent
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I wouldnt even want to know about the leaked information if I had at least some Idea of what the game is going to be like, I look at the SE FFIV page and just shake my head, Is that all they could give us after all this time? I dont even feel like playing the game anymore
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#25 Mar 03 2010 at 9:47 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I have a better idea...why doesn't SE actually just give us what they want us to know about combat/class/etc info instead of having to battle the NDA. If enough information was given not only would the beta members be less likely to say anything, but as well those not in beta would be content with the info given and not hound beta members for it.


SE will start testing out the new magic classes...before the beta client update is done they update their site with magic info. Now instead of beta members divulging magic class info, SE is the one doing it and dictating what is being said. Problem solved.


Because It's Not Finished Content. Customers dont like being lied to, and no matter what SE says about "the product is still not finished" when people hear "there will be 5 magic classes in the game that work like X" then that becomes a fact for many, and when the product is released and things are different people act like they've been lied to.
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#26 Mar 03 2010 at 10:30 AM Rating: Default
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Because It's Not Finished Content. Customers dont like being lied to, and no matter what SE says about "the product is still not finished" when people hear "there will be 5 magic classes in the game that work like X" then that becomes a fact for many, and when the product is released and things are different people act like they've been lied to.


Completely and utterly agree.

From a user perspecitve we want it all, we want to know how it's good, how it's bad and how we can change it... since it kind of is OUR game.

From the Devs though they don't want any bad rep or views from an unfinished game. Most games carry disclaimers like "this game is in an unfinished state and is not a representation of the final product". Usually you can get a good idea but so many games i have played have changed tons during beta and over the 3-4year lifespan of release probably as much as the beta if not more.

Most people here have to remember, we are ALL here because we want to know. I'm sure there are thousands of people out there that will play the game or played FFXI and really aren't 1/10th as concerned as we are, they are the majority.

I look forward to leaked beta reports, they will come... how the game stacks up. Visually i know it is going to be a killer, lore-wise SE has never... ever let us down. It really comes down to if the game "jives" for you. I like the idea of WoW but can't get over the little things like anonimity, childlike graphics, the immersive ruining things like... zomg... mohawk grenades etc. So hopefully in the end if i don't get into beta i don't care, i've been waiting years for this game another 8-10 months won't kill me. I will buy it regardless... i mean sheet... i bought Age of Conan lolz...

#27 Mar 03 2010 at 1:37 PM Rating: Good
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I'd like to see the minimum PC specs.
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#28 Mar 03 2010 at 2:21 PM Rating: Good
AngusX wrote:
I'd like to see the minimum PC specs.


I really would too. I don't see how THIS would hurt. A lot of us are starting to think about possible upgrades to our machines. It'd be nice to know what we should shoot for.
#29 Mar 03 2010 at 2:51 PM Rating: Good
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Osarion wrote:

AngusX wrote:

I'd like to see the minimum PC specs.


I really would too. I don't see how THIS would hurt. A lot of us are starting to think about possible upgrades to our machines. It'd be nice to know what we should shoot for.


The reason why they won't is because during alpha, and beta stages the code that is used in the game is generally rough. It isn't optimized to run well but rather to run period. As final decisions are made the "polishing" up of content begins, this more than likely includes optimization which allows the system requirements to drop significantly than what they were prior.

At best they could possibly say what they HOPE to shoot for, but if they do that and say you'll be able to play it just fine with X rig (and people go and build such a rig) then they find out that it is nearly impossible to obtain that level of optimization making it impossible to play on X rig, people will complain. Silence is usually the best policy for them during the development phase for many reasons.
#30 Mar 03 2010 at 2:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
I have a better idea...why doesn't SE actually just give us what they want us to know about combat/class/etc info instead of having to battle the NDA. If enough information was given not only would the beta members be less likely to say anything, but as well those not in beta would be content with the info given and not hound beta members for it.


SE will start testing out the new magic classes...before the beta client update is done they update their site with magic info. Now instead of beta members divulging magic class info, SE is the one doing it and dictating what is being said. Problem solved.


Because It's Not Finished Content. Customers dont like being lied to, and no matter what SE says about "the product is still not finished" when people hear "there will be 5 magic classes in the game that work like X" then that becomes a fact for many, and when the product is released and things are different people act like they've been lied to.


Unlike when they tell you that there will be new avatars completely different from the past ones, with less reliance to BP:timers, because they hear most Summoners want to keep their avatars out longer, then give you Odin and Alexander as a 2 hour only?

At this point I'm more likely to feel offended that SE spoke the truth about something, because I just assume all they say are lies.
#31 Mar 03 2010 at 3:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Looks like this thread has been rated as Excellent, I'm surprised. I would like to weigh in on SE possibly lying to the public in regards to leaked info/promises they can't keep. Every company has this problem they generate so many great ideas but when it comes to the actual transitioning into the game, sometimes plans fall apart. SE, however is a notorious hush-hush company, I can't blame them if they don't want to say anything to us. However, in order to keep the general public interested in FFXIV/any game they wish to create. I believe it is common courtesy to at least provide us with a monthly news letter telling us how Beta is coming along.

On another note, does anyone remember when SE said that FFXI would have amazing Character Creation engine? So sophisticated that we wouldn't need names, that we would recognize each other from pure looks alone? Man that was fun....

Anywho, continue on!
#32 Mar 03 2010 at 4:09 PM Rating: Good
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I have assorted feelings on the matter.

On one hand, The game might as well be live if all the information about it leaked. On the other hand, to think that no information will be leaked is just naive. The "premier sites" like alla, wiki, etc can all take a firm stance of "We're deleting, nuking, and banning for any leaked information" but unless SE is going to go as far as banning people for it, that's not a huge inhibitor. And even if they were, who is to say that some poster named Mikhalia on Allakhazam.com also happens to be Mikhalia on FF14 Alpha? What's to stop you (someone who got in) from making a character named Mikhalia, I post "Hey I got in to the Alpha test! I'm playing a Sorcerer, and the magic cast system has a cool minigame that works like paper-rock-scissors and you can get damage increases!", then all of the sudden, you get banned when you did nothing wrong.

Beyond that, while the premier sites have agreements with SE, there's nothing stopping someone who gets accepted from posting something on Youtube/Livejournal/Facebook/Twitter/Myspace/4chan/Reddit or even their own personal website, complete with pictures and charts and everything? Honestly, even if SE were to go to the administrators of the site and say "Please remove these posts, they are in violation of an NDA", the NDA is between SE and the person posting the leaked content, and that's where the violation lies. SE can't sue (insert social networking site here) because one of their users broke an NDA, the best they can do is ban the user from FFXIV and ask the SNS nicely to take it down.

Would I personally leak any information if I got in? No, because I'm not going to risk it. At the same time, do I expect information to be leaked all over the web? Of course I do. Alpha goes live on the 11th, I'd be surprised if it took as long as the 12th before pictures and video and descriptions were publicly available.

"Closed" Alpha/Beta doesn't mean closed unless you have all your players in a room with a LAN disconnected from the outside world with no cameras or phones, and even -then- there's still word of mouth. I know two people that got in to the Alpha that I found out about over an IM, and I'm sure that if I really wanted to ask, I could.

So the NDA doesn't exclude anyone from saying anything, it just means that less people will talk about it, and you'll have to go hunting for conflicting information based on perspective, as opposed to having one source of accurate unbiased information. I think SE would be doing themselves more of a service by just publicly releasing the information themselves, rather than leaving their game to be virally marketed in a semi-restricted over the course of the next 6 months (give or take).

Personally, I'd rather see an official release on Alla about changes as they happen than have to read through an individual account of "This is my character" "This is me casting Fire" "This is me talking to an NPC". Don't care.

It's up to SE to set their own terms of use on their product, but it's unrealistic of them to expect everyone to obey them. Technically Windower was a ToS violation in 11, and you see how that resulted in absolutely no one at all using it, right?

Besides, considering SE put zero marketing stateside into 11 compared to the advertising budget that Blizzard sunk into WoW, If SE is confident in the quality of their own product, why -wouldn't- they want to promote it? Sure they have a built in player base of people who want to "move on past 11" and people who quit 11 but "Hope 14 is better" as well as the inherent audience of "It's a FF game so I will play it", but why not move past that? "Is WoW boring the everliving **** out of you? Are all the WoW clones leaving you feeling like no one does anything original anymore? Try FFXIV!" would easily drum up a lot of buzz about it. ****, I went into game stop to get Miles Edgeworth and put a preorder in on FF13 (and the fiancee put 5 bucks on the new Pokemon)... there's FF13 ads plastering the front of the store. Put that kind of marketing into 14, ffs!

It's just like Fight Club. You can say not to talk about it, but breaking that rule is the main thing that leads to growth. I'm not advocating breaking whatever rule you like, whenever you like, but SE's "First rule of Alpha: Do not talk about Alpha" is more likely to hurt than than help them.
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#33 Mar 03 2010 at 4:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Regarding the trailer, imo if they wanted such a tight leash kept on their opening movie they just shouldn't have shown it or they should have had attendees at VanaFest sign something. If you don't do that, then I really don't see how you can come out of that situation in a positive way. I wasn't happy with having to completely remove Elmer's work, but I understand the reasoning behind it now.

I agree that leaks too early can kill the game before it's even had a chance to stand on its own two feet. Word of mouth is extremely strong with gamers.
#34 Mar 03 2010 at 5:37 PM Rating: Decent
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You are absolutely right, one of SE's biggest problems within FFXI itself is the fact that they cater to the higher level player base, completely forgetting about the little people. It is tough enough getting accustomed to FFXI in the beginning, the player retention rate was unbelievably low.

FFXIV seems to be catering to the fan base, that's all well and good but what about those people on the fence about the game? Those who gave FFXI a try and gave up because of the low amount of low level content? SE really needs to step up to the plate and get FFXIV out there or else because of the pure fact that it wasn't publicized well enough the game could go up in flames.

I respect SE for being secretive about their products, but in this generation we are more less likely to give a game a try without adequate information/review. SE needs to push through and get this game out there, they need a steady flow of regulated info to be released frequently or people will just lose interest.
#35 Mar 03 2010 at 7:19 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Regarding the trailer, imo if they wanted such a tight leash kept on their opening movie they just shouldn't have shown it or they should have had attendees at VanaFest sign something. If you don't do that, then I really don't see how you can come out of that situation in a positive way. I wasn't happy with having to completely remove Elmer's work, but I understand the reasoning behind it now.

Square is notorious for this. It's some kind of holdover from the pre-internet video days 15 years ago, and they've never quite caught up with the rest of the world in this regard (although they seem to have been getting better in the last year or so). They're still using "secret" trailers and letting a select few whisper about them to the world, as if that builds up hype better than just posting the **** thing online.

That said, this one was kind of different. It wasn't a teaser trailer for bored journalists - it was the opening video of the game shown as a reward to the most enthusiastic fans. Opening videos don't have the same purpose as trailers, and they're not normally distributed the same way.

Even so... I can't say I agree with Allakhazam's policy on these things. No credible games journalism site would remove legally obtained content simply because a company asked them to. But I guess Zam isn't really supposed to be a games journalism site. Until they've got the budget to do that kind of work, they've got to settle for what crumbs the developers throw them.
#36 Mar 03 2010 at 8:42 PM Rating: Good
Borkachev wrote:
Even so... I can't say I agree with Allakhazam's policy on these things. No credible games journalism site would remove legally obtained content simply because a company asked them to. But I guess Zam isn't really supposed to be a games journalism site. Until they've got the budget to do that kind of work, they've got to settle for what crumbs the developers throw them.


ZAM had nothing substantial to gain from keeping that article posted after being asked to take it down, and a great deal to lose. Not saying it's right, but that's just the way it is.
#37 Mar 03 2010 at 9:22 PM Rating: Good
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AureliusSir the Irrelevant wrote:
Borkachev wrote:
Even so... I can't say I agree with Allakhazam's policy on these things. No credible games journalism site would remove legally obtained content simply because a company asked them to. But I guess Zam isn't really supposed to be a games journalism site. Until they've got the budget to do that kind of work, they've got to settle for what crumbs the developers throw them.


ZAM had nothing substantial to gain from keeping that article posted after being asked to take it down, and a great deal to lose. Not saying it's right, but that's just the way it is.


Yeah, to elaborate: in areas of journalism like this, I think you have to tread the line between providing information to the public and maintaining a good relationship with your source. Obviously they want to give us as much info as they can, but doing so against SE's wishes hurts the company's trust in the fansite. That might mean missing out on information or promotions. Doing so could thus do harm in the long term that overrules the short-term benefit of providing the info.
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#38 Mar 03 2010 at 9:23 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
No credible games journalism site would remove legally obtained content simply because a company asked them to.


Allakhazam is a community site, not a journalism site.
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#39 Mar 03 2010 at 9:59 PM Rating: Decent
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No credible games journalism site would remove legally obtained content simply because a company asked them to.


Yes they would, and I have seen many do so, SE and Sony are the worst offenders for asking for content to be removed.
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#40 Mar 04 2010 at 2:26 AM Rating: Good
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Eske wrote:
AureliusSir the Irrelevant wrote:
Borkachev wrote:
Even so... I can't say I agree with Allakhazam's policy on these things. No credible games journalism site would remove legally obtained content simply because a company asked them to. But I guess Zam isn't really supposed to be a games journalism site. Until they've got the budget to do that kind of work, they've got to settle for what crumbs the developers throw them.


ZAM had nothing substantial to gain from keeping that article posted after being asked to take it down, and a great deal to lose. Not saying it's right, but that's just the way it is.


Yeah, to elaborate: in areas of journalism like this, I think you have to tread the line between providing information to the public and maintaining a good relationship with your source. Obviously they want to give us as much info as they can, but doing so against SE's wishes hurts the company's trust in the fansite. That might mean missing out on information or promotions. Doing so could thus do harm in the long term that overrules the short-term benefit of providing the info.


Quoting myself to show this good example of my point:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=21779

ZAM is now part of an offer for early beta entry. That's a privilege that I doubt they'd be able to offer if they had refused SE's request to pull the information.
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#41 Mar 04 2010 at 4:02 AM Rating: Good
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Eske wrote:
Eske wrote:
AureliusSir the Irrelevant wrote:
Borkachev wrote:
Even so... I can't say I agree with Allakhazam's policy on these things. No credible games journalism site would remove legally obtained content simply because a company asked them to. But I guess Zam isn't really supposed to be a games journalism site. Until they've got the budget to do that kind of work, they've got to settle for what crumbs the developers throw them.


ZAM had nothing substantial to gain from keeping that article posted after being asked to take it down, and a great deal to lose. Not saying it's right, but that's just the way it is.


Yeah, to elaborate: in areas of journalism like this, I think you have to tread the line between providing information to the public and maintaining a good relationship with your source. Obviously they want to give us as much info as they can, but doing so against SE's wishes hurts the company's trust in the fansite. That might mean missing out on information or promotions. Doing so could thus do harm in the long term that overrules the short-term benefit of providing the info.


Quoting myself to show this good example of my point:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/story.html?story=21779

ZAM is now part of an offer for early beta entry. That's a privilege that I doubt they'd be able to offer if they had refused SE's request to pull the information.


Indeed. With all the shineys that Alla gives us courtesy of SE, sometimes you gotta pick your battles.
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#42 Mar 04 2010 at 5:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Nyewchu wrote:
... the player retention rate was unbelievably low.
...


link? statistics?
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#43 Mar 04 2010 at 9:55 AM Rating: Excellent
Yesterday I was leveling in the dunes and a party member said he thought FFXIV was going to suck because "you can change your jobs during battle which makes battles too easy." This exemplifies the inability for some to gather facts and then broadcast them accurately. If you talk to people playing FFXI you will quickly see that there are many false ideas about FFXIV already circulating the interwebz. This leads me to believe that some moron will get beta and then, due to his own lack of skill, decide that the game sucks for (x) reason and then leak what he thinks makes the game horrible and not worth buying. Then his moron friends will believe him and start the rumor mill.

Leaks can be a good thing -- when they come from a salaried PR specialist and are carefully crafted to generated positive PR. Then again that's called a press release I suppose. I don't want to hear some Joe Schmo tell me all about what he saw somebody type in some IRC while watching Vanafest -- they are frequently talking out of the wrong *******. It's an age-old problem of who reads the Times and who reads the Enquirer...
#44 Mar 04 2010 at 9:58 AM Rating: Decent
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In response to Insane, if there were a lot of low level players there would be content for them, no? SE caters to the higher-level player base. You need proof? Look at the expansions from Treasures and on. I've met countless players who quit after just a couple of weeks, why? I can't answer that, FFXI isn't for everyone.




Edited, Mar 4th 2010 11:00am by Nyewchu
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