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#1 Mar 09 2010 at 7:40 AM Rating: Decent
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i know it is pretty early for this but i just wanted peoples thoughts. with weapon swapping being the new way to switch "jobs" how do you think SE will handle all the staff swapping mages did in ffxi? i know as a blm every spell was macroed with a staff to go with it. i believe i read somewhere that you could not switch weapons during battle. so do you think that there will be some sort of other slot on our toons that will facilitate an elemental item that will boost coinciding spells. or do you think there will be no need for something like this in ffxiv?
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#2 Mar 09 2010 at 8:50 AM Rating: Good
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Ideally, they'd allow for you to switch from Staff A to Staff B, but simply disallow Staff a to Sword A. Its either that or not tie any stats to weapons at all except for you job class.
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#3 Mar 09 2010 at 9:14 AM Rating: Good
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Unless weapon swapping is an explicit tool SE wants players to utilize in combat, and I don't believe they do based on the tie to jobs, then I don't see them slipping up and allowing it again. It's not really a necessary or beneficial game feature.
#4 Mar 09 2010 at 9:43 AM Rating: Decent
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Depends on if they let you swap armor in combat or not. It's also depends on exactly how the how weapons thing works. Are weapons the same as in FFIX in which you learn different abilities based on the weapon you equip? An example would be equipping a red staff give you the ability of Fire I while the blue staff give you Blizzard I?

Also equipment swap was a good tool in FFXI because it kept the life span on alot of weapons and armor useful like AF1. Without it alot of stuff would have been just useless after the next update.

Edited, Mar 9th 2010 8:46am by dyvidd
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#5 Mar 09 2010 at 10:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Don't have the link handy at the moment, but haven't they already said that gear swapping during combat is not allowed in this one?
#6 Mar 09 2010 at 10:51 AM Rating: Good
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I think they will allow the swap if the weapon is connected to the class you are currently on. Like someone has already said (and this has been my own theory for some time), swapping from staff to sword will be a no no, but from sword to sword or staff to staff will be allowed as there will be no change in the class anyway.
#7 Mar 09 2010 at 10:56 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Depends on if they let you swap armor in combat or not


It has already been mentioned in interviews (I couldn't tell you which ones at this point) that swapping classes during battle is not possible, of course. So that would seem to indicate you can't change Staff A to Sword A during battle (to pull from an earlier example, pardon me). However, it may still be possible to switch from Staff A to Staff B still during battle, allowing for same-to-same armor switches or non-weapon armor switch during battle.

It all depends on how they've designed the game I suppose... It really is far too early to speculate.
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#8 Mar 09 2010 at 12:10 PM Rating: Decent
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SE said you can't switch classes during combat but, at the same time they haven't said anything about the ability to swap weapons without changing your class in the process. For example: you are a "warrior" (i dont know the classes yet so yeah :P) and you swap from your 2h sword to your 2h axe. I think there has to be more involved in changing classes than just swaping weapons. But i can't tell, we are just gonna have to wait and see.
#9 Mar 09 2010 at 12:16 PM Rating: Decent
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I hope they lock out ALL gear swaps while engaged. This was one of the biggest mistakes they made in ffxi. It was annoying, helped fuel the elitism, and was so stupid to blink like a christmas tree during a fight. Not to mention insanely unrealistic. I understand its a fantasy game, but all other "fantasy" elements of the game were explainable, i.e. magic. How about taking on/taking off 7 different complete sets of armor in under 3 seconds while carrying out 8 different job abilities??

I want no swaps in battle. It would be more fun, more realistic, and would force players to make tradeoffs. Sorry, you can't have the best of everything for every action. Make the sacrifice to have defensive gear, or offensive gear, or whichever you prefer, but not both.
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#10 Mar 09 2010 at 2:58 PM Rating: Decent
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I was under the impression that SE didn't want gear swaps in FFXIV. It got out of hand from what they intended for FFXI. Again, that was just what I got from different interviews.

As for weapons changing class, does that mean that only one class can use daggers, only one class can use a sword, only one class can use a lance.....
That would suck.
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#11 Mar 09 2010 at 3:00 PM Rating: Decent
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I think base weapons will influence your class (and skills would be learned via these weapons) - but that 'advanced' classes might require knowledge of multiple weapon types and or learned-skill combinations down the road.
#12 Mar 09 2010 at 3:02 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
As for weapons changing class, does that mean that only one class can use daggers, only one class can use a sword, only one class can use a lance.....
That would suck.


If you read through the interviews, this has basically been confirmed -- a weapon change = a class change, the active skill set changes when you change the weapon, and so on ... however, whether or not SE will implement a way to change your weapon while opting out of changing your class and retain the skill set of the original weapon, I'm not sure. They haven't indicated that this was part of the plan, but then again we've received limited information relative to the scope of the game.
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#13 Mar 10 2010 at 1:07 AM Rating: Decent
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It all depends on how they've designed the game I suppose... It really is far too early to speculate.


Its never too early! However, it is too early to speculate and be right about it. (Well, 99% of the time anyway.)
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#14 Mar 10 2010 at 1:12 AM Rating: Good
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I believe they *are* looking for our input as to how the game plays. If everyone shouts for it, who knows what they might alter in our favor. We will be the ones playing it, after all.

Don't shout too loud though, the more things they decide to add/change based on the community's response.. the longer it will take for the game's completion.
#15 Mar 10 2010 at 7:22 AM Rating: Good
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Have they not already said that they wanted to take away the need for armor and weapon swaps during battle.

Quote:
Don't shout too loud though, the more things they decide to add/change based on the community's response.. the longer it will take for the game's completion.


This works both way though, don't shout enough and the game is released in a poor state.

Edited, Mar 10th 2010 8:23am by Diakar
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#16 Mar 10 2010 at 10:41 AM Rating: Decent
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A possible solution could be to add a timer on weapon (class) swapping.
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#17 Mar 10 2010 at 11:27 AM Rating: Good
Threx wrote:
A possible solution could be to add a timer on weapon (class) swapping.


I think it's easy to over-complicate things. People who have played FFXI as their MMO of choice are accustomed to regular weapon swapping. They want to preserve that concept because they enjoyed it. Personal preference is personal preference. People who have played MMOs where swapping weapons (or any gear, for that matter) in the middle of a fight is not allowed may not see what all the fuss is about. They've learned how to play a game where the gear you're wearing when you start the fight is always the gear you're wearing when the fight is over and that's that.

To a lot of people, gear swapping mid-combat is a clunky mechanic. It's a response to horizontal progression. If you've got the best you can hope to get for your job's role in a general sense, what is there left to strive for for the next 3 years? Uber-grind demigod bits and...offset pieces. Yes. The carrot dangling to the side is adequately enticing in the absence of a carrot in front of you, so off we go! Of course, that inevitably leads to complaints about inventory. The developers likely didn't intend for its players to be carrying around 2/4/8 different weapons and multiple doodads and armor bits to be swapped around in combat. And since most gear swaps were automated by macro associated with a particular spell/ability, it only added the illusion of depth. I can cut and paste a macro like nobody's business and once I've done so, the actual act of triggering that macro is no more complicated whether the macro contains 2 gear swaps and an ability or a simple taru leg humping emote. Yay I've got the gear. Yay I've got the macro. I'm fooling myself if I think it means much of anything.

Of course the simple, objective solution to all of this is that when SE says no weapon swapping mid-combat, they mean no weapon swapping mid-combat and to have everyone accept it at face value. Since we know that we'll be able to change weapons in the field in order to change classes it makes sense that some inventory accommodations will be made to account for it. Start throwing in multiple swappable bits for multiple classes and I think the inventory demands would get out of hand pretty quickly. I also think that in a more involved and dynamic combat setting, people aren't going to miss swapping gear. They'll be too busy doing other things to really think about it.

It's too early to start proposing changes to a combat system we haven't seen in detail yet in order to preserve a dated combat system that I think a lot of people would prefer to largely do away with. It might be better to take a close look at what SE is offering before we round up the posse and start pushing for design adjustments to accommodate an aversion to change.
#18 Mar 10 2010 at 1:41 PM Rating: Good
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I don't have the links personaly but they have said a few times that swapping weapons in battle will not be happening, try searching the forums for it...

I might have read more into it than what they have said but it sounded like they wanted to eliminate gear swapping in combat alltogether, or it could just be wishfull thinking. :P
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