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#1 Mar 09 2010 at 8:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Slow work night, got to thinking about the stats.

Ok so in ffxi as you leveled the jobs, you auto got stats for the job. In ffxiv since there no levels. So how does every1 think the stats are going to work?
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Example:

Say str, dex, vit, agi, int, mnd, chr all cap at 99
Atk, def cap at 999
HP/MP cap at 9999

Say you are leveling(to say) a tank class, and your working on vit/hp most. As you are using your shield, and as that levels up(to say) would ur vit/hp level up at all for that class?

Also to make it so no1 could 'max out' every stat area you would only get so many points to use before you would hit 'max level (to say)'

If you add all the stats together. You would get 693 (99x7), and say you only got a total of like 300(to say like max level) stat points for each job to use as you level.

Atk, def, hp/mp didnt really think to much about.
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So to say with that example as you level your weapons you use, you level up certain stats only.

Well just my random thought on it. Forgot most of what I thought about it at work, to when I got off this morning.(and I know i'll be 100% wrong lol)

How do you all think stats well work in ffxiv as you level the jobs?
#2 Mar 09 2010 at 9:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Zalongamer wrote:
How do you all think stats well work in ffxiv as you level the jobs?

Each job will have its own stat growth, independent--save racial discrepancies--of character stats. I don't expect there to be any randomness or choice in the system--save special situations such as any type of merits or talents.

Were stats actually increased for your character based on what you played, then you'd have players who leveled up their entire time playing tanks and now want to play DPS, but can't because their vit are so high and their str is so low. It'd be a serious flaw that I don't expect SE to overlook.
#3 Mar 09 2010 at 9:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
So to say with that example as you level your weapons you use, you level up certain stats only.


I like this. This would be an interesting way to work it, but something I would wonder is about if skill caps would come into play with the job switching.

For example,
If I start the game playing some kind of tanky class and use a shield a lot thereby raising Shield skil, Vit and, HP a lot. Then I switch off to a glass cannon nuker type, does that shift lower my skill cap in Shields to reflect that I'm focusing on magic at the time, or will my shield skill remain high and make me a meatshield nuker that can block?
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#4 Mar 09 2010 at 9:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Elmyrsun wrote:
or will my shield skill remain high and make me a meatshield nuker that can block?

I really hope not. It locks people into certain classes on a particular character, which seems to go exactly against SE intention in both FFXI and FFXIV. And it creates ridiculous situations where people who want to play lancer for example might level up to max level solely as a gladiator because the gladiator stats happen to be better for lancer than lancer stats.
#5 Mar 09 2010 at 10:09 AM Rating: Good
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Mabey you can level gladiator like 2 times. One as DD, another as tank, but dont think so. Unless when you like change jobs, (say when your in your moghouse for ffxi) instead you pick a job type, gladiator to say, level it as a tank in the first slot. Then pick a new slot and level gladiator again, but as a dd, so you have 2 gladiator jobs leveled, but 1 tank, 1 dd.
#6 Mar 09 2010 at 10:19 AM Rating: Good
Zalongamer wrote:
Mabey you can level gladiator like 2 times. One as DD, another as tank, but dont think so. Unless when you like change jobs, (say when your in your moghouse for ffxi) instead you pick a job type, gladiator to say, level it as a tank in the first slot. Then pick a new slot and level gladiator again, but as a dd, so you have 2 gladiator jobs leveled, but 1 tank, 1 dd.


I'm all for speculation and imagination, but it helps in the speculative end of things to consider it in the context of what has already been said. You won't level a class, you'll level skills. Stat gain will likely be based on what you do. If you get smacked around a lot, you'd expect to see increases to stats like Vitality. If you use 2h weapons a lot, you'd expect to see substantial gains in stats like Strength. Smaller weapons -> Agility. Offensive magic -> Int. Etc. How SE works archetypes into the mix and what effect having say, a sword and shield equipped on a character that has learned various different spells is yet to be seen. What it would appear SE has learned (and what most people have already figured out) is that this is an MMO, not a standalone game, and defining hard capped levels, skills, or attributes at any point is a bad idea.
#7 Mar 09 2010 at 11:04 AM Rating: Decent
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True. I think i've played to many free mmos when u level u get stat ponits to put in ur char(which is stupid but kidna nice at the same time) when i had this run through my head + being sleepy helps too
#8 Mar 09 2010 at 12:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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736 posts
Well,
Other skill/class hybrid systems have tackled this problem in alot of ways. Any game involving skills has you manage them in two different ways, Use-based and Points-based. Normally this applies to abilities, but when the game is level-less stats usually get rolled into whatever system the abilities are using.

In Use-based systems (ala' XI's schools of magic/weapons; where you use a skill to increase it's effectiveness); stats get raised as you do things associated with them. Either using abilities like "using Steal raises agility", or general combat like "an enemy missing an attack raises agility".

In Points-based systems (ala' Sphere Grid/Talent Tree; where you you activate and strengthen skills by assigning points to them in a way that's either linear or cherry-picked), fixed increases of stats requires points to be "set".

There are also options that could be used with either system; the 100% paperdoll system where every last iota of your stats was determined by your armor, or training with mobdrops/xp/money to increase stats (back when trainer NPCs were all the rage, which has gone the way of Encumbrance).

Of all those options, I like #2 the best.
If you take the Sphere grid, segregate abilities and stats into classes instead of putting everyone on the same grid at different places, only use Linearity to stop specific gamebreaking combinations, and allow certain things to be "set" regardless of what class you are. You essentially fulfill all of Squeenix's campaign promises in a way that's flexible enough to make magic/melee hybrids, individual enough that classes and the holy trinity is preserved, but impermanent enough to keep a player from being horribly overpowered when they switch to a lower job.






Edited, Mar 9th 2010 1:38pm by Zemzelette
#9 Mar 09 2010 at 12:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I'm all for speculation and imagination, but it helps in the speculative end of things to consider it in the context of what has already been said. You won't level a class, you'll level skills. Stat gain will likely be based on what you do. If you get smacked around a lot, you'd expect to see increases to stats like Vitality. If you use 2h weapons a lot, you'd expect to see substantial gains in stats like Strength. Smaller weapons -> Agility. Offensive magic -> Int. Etc.


This is how I'm picturing it. When I first heard about the skill ups I was thinking if it was similar to a Saga (Saga Frontier, Romancing Saga, etc.) style game. Oh, and FFII followed a similar stat up system.
#10 Mar 09 2010 at 12:52 PM Rating: Decent
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I sort of imagined they would do something like what Ultima Online did. It's been a loooong time since I played that but I remember there not being classes at all and maybe even stats like int or str, can't remember. You would just level skills. So if you decided you wanted to perform magic you would use spells and gradually your magic skill would increase. Want to use a sword? Grab one and swing at stuff and your sword skill would increase. The crafting skills worked exactly the same way. Oh, and there was a cap for the total number of points you could have distributed through all of the skills so you couldn't create some uber character that was maxed out at everything. So I figured it would be something like that, though they also sound like they will have classes in a round about way by having you equip weapons. Maybe you will have certain skill sets available to you when you have certain weapons equipped and then you level those skills through various activities.
#11 Mar 09 2010 at 1:45 PM Rating: Decent
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AureliusSir the Irrelevant wrote:
You won't level a class, you'll level skills.

I admit I'm not as on the ball with FFXIV news as some here, but everything I've heard so far has pointed to the armory system being a hyped up moogle replacement. There will be classes, though they may not be called classes, and there will be levels, though they may not be called levels. They'll function basically the same though, with perhaps the most major difference being that you can job change in the field instead of having to return to town.
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