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#52 Mar 11 2010 at 6:25 PM Rating: Decent
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sixgauge wrote:
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If distance is even MORE important, I hope they give us the natural ability to gauge it somehow without having to guess.

As soon as I saw the reference to distance for melee, I thought of the messages they implemented on XI for RNG (e.g. - X hits Y squarely, pummeling, etc.).


Yeah, I don't want the windower to be a necessity, but if they don't give an easy way to gauge distance, and it is of that much importance, it might become a necessity.

One option is they could support 3D TVs, to let us judge the distance easily ourselves!
#53 Mar 11 2010 at 8:54 PM Rating: Default
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My fear right now is that this game may be merely a Final Fantasy in name.

Some say that about XI; I never felt that. But these names, places, and art styles are extremely unlike anything we've seen. It isn't that it's different. It seems antithetical.

We shall see.
#54 Mar 11 2010 at 9:00 PM Rating: Default
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As someone who likes to play as the Black Mage/Nuker I am a little worried about Conjurer having healing magic too. I also like Archers and Thiefs and I don't see anything that resembles a THF class.
#55 Mar 11 2010 at 10:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Soooo... crafting is going to be a serious class to play? I was just assuming at this point that the blacksmith talk I've been seeing for months on their website was like just there to show it's in the game, but uh as a class? Ah well, whatever I guess. I'm up for advancing the genre. I just don't know if the craft aspect of MMOs should really be thrown onto the battlefield. I don't even have a clue how a miner is going to help a group, much less who will want to play such classes over the others. Gotta be more interesting than what we've had for the past 12 years, though. I'm down with punching the mob in the face as a blacksmith.
#56 Mar 11 2010 at 11:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think with how many classes there are, SE is really doing a great thing by giving us options for everything. I would assume there will be many options of places to gain experience, much more then FFXI. You can fight regular mobs with a standard party, or you can go to the snow area and destroy enemies with fire archers/fire marauders/fire conjurers. You can bring a mechanic along and fight mechanical mobs if the caverns are too crowded. For everyone who is worried about the lack of thief, there is no such lack. You are essentially creating your own class, if you want to be a thief play pugilist and fight from behind the mob and steal/sneak attack a lot. It will mold and you will have a more nifty thief then you ever could have had in FFXI. I wouldn't be surprised if you could be a healing Ranger if you worked on it enough, since they said some arrows will have healing properties. If I am understanding this system correctly, it is simply incredible and redefines the term "freedom of the player" for MMO's. I would imagine it will create problems with grouping and such, but I am sure SE has a tested theory to work around this.

Kudos to them for sticking with their original plan. I am loving this system, and have been thinking all day about the possibilities for my character.
#57 Mar 11 2010 at 11:14 PM Rating: Decent
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I cannot believe that from all the images shown, none was showing a Miqote!
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#58 Mar 11 2010 at 11:32 PM Rating: Decent
Cyiode wrote:
sixgauge wrote:
Quote:
If distance is even MORE important, I hope they give us the natural ability to gauge it somehow without having to guess.

As soon as I saw the reference to distance for melee, I thought of the messages they implemented on XI for RNG (e.g. - X hits Y squarely, pummeling, etc.).


Yeah, I don't want the windower to be a necessity, but if they don't give an easy way to gauge distance, and it is of that much importance, it might become a necessity.

One option is they could support 3D TVs, to let us judge the distance easily ourselves!


There's no such thing as an unsanctioned third party utility that is a necessity. If you need to cheat to get the job done, play a standalone game and mod to your heart's content.
#59 Mar 12 2010 at 1:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Another huge amount of information from Dengeki -- here's the link!

This thread is now about all the information from magazines this week.
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#60 Mar 12 2010 at 1:45 AM Rating: Decent
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電Writer: I wonder if the alpha will start in a month.
ಠ_ಠ
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#61 Mar 12 2010 at 2:01 AM Rating: Good
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Most of that seems like pretty practical information.
Thank you Elmer, you've been working pretty hard these past two days. :)


Quote:
- Can Archers make arrows by themselves?

A: Only Disciples of the Hand will be able to make arrows. However, in the future, by putting abilities from a Disciple of the Hand on an Archer, they could attain some limited crafting ability.


Eeeehhhh?
Doth I hear something that lends itself to the idea of adding the abilities of an inactive class to an active one?
That's what I'd like to hear anyway. I can't believe they're still kinda' tiptoeing around this subject with fuzzy language. Oddly much like that damned DoM/DoW comment*, it can be taken either way; that you can add crafting abilities to your archer class, or you can add crafting abilities to your character whom is primarily considered an archer because it's the highest skill but would still require a job shift to perform the crafting actions.

Little late in the game to still be playing verbal footsie, guys.



*By which I mean this, from ages ago.
Quote:

Q:Can classes other than Disciples of Magic use magic? Also, can Disciples of Magic use swords or other weapons?
A:Classes are somewhat pre-defined, but that isn't to say there won't be the possibility as you continue to level and grow your character.


Edited, Mar 12th 2010 3:03am by Zemzelette
#62 Mar 12 2010 at 2:06 AM Rating: Decent
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That's what I'd like to hear anyway. I can't believe they're still kinda' tiptoeing around this subject with fuzzy language. Oddly much like that damned DoM/DoW comment*, it can be taken either way; that you can add crafting abilities to your archer class, or you can add crafting abilities to your character whom is primarily considered an archer because it's the highest skill but would still require a job shift to perform the crafting actions.


I don't think they're tiptoeing around the subject of adding a subjob-type element to the game, but they're unsure about the exact details and what they'll allow to be used as a subability and what not. They're probably waiting for alpha/beta feedback before making their final decision.
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#63 Mar 12 2010 at 2:08 AM Rating: Decent
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from eorzeapedia regarding Conjurer...
Quote:
Purge: You can balance off the elemental status of you and the enemy (translation note: I really don’t know what they mean by that)


i dont normally get stuff but i got this one i bet!!
the developers mentioned specializing in an element of your choice, i bet this means that if your are a wanting to attack something that is naturally resistant to an elemental spell you want to cast on it, this abilitiy will make it to where it isnt so resistant on that element for that one spell. did i do good!?
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#64 Mar 12 2010 at 2:30 AM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
Quote:
電Writer: I wonder if the alpha will start in a month.
ಠ_ಠ


Quote:
Editor: If the alpha test comes after a month, then I predict the beta starts in half a year.


Wat
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#65 Mar 12 2010 at 3:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Very good info from Dengeki. That allays some of my fears about certain weapons being excluded and combat jobs being limited to the seven presented. Definitely seems like there may be some other starting jobs as well as some other jobs that branch from the starting ones.
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#66 Mar 12 2010 at 3:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
from eorzeapedia regarding Conjurer...
Quote:

Purge: You can balance off the elemental status of you and the enemy (translation note: I really don’t know what they mean by that)


i dont normally get stuff but i got this one i bet!!
the developers mentioned specializing in an element of your choice, i bet this means that if your are a wanting to attack something that is naturally resistant to an elemental spell you want to cast on it, this abilitiy will make it to where it isnt so resistant on that element for that one spell. did i do good!?


The Japanese description says Purge lets you "project your thoughts onto others without limitation" which it then defines as being able to "equalize the elemental affinity of party members or enemies."

Best guess is it evens out all elemental affinities to some base value, so the enemies or players you affect are not weak to anything or strong to anything. But is it an instant effect? Is the effect a perpetual AoE around the Conjurer, only active on people/enemies that are close enough? We just don't know yet.

Quote:

bsphil wrote:
Quote:
電Writer: I wonder if the alpha will start in a month.
ಠ_ಠ


Quote:
Editor: If the alpha test comes after a month, then I predict the beta starts in half a year.


Wat


Yea, I didn't get that part either. It didn't sound like they were talking about periods of time, which would make more sense, but they must have been. I'm going to reword that.

Edited, Mar 12th 2010 9:15am by Elmer
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#67 Mar 12 2010 at 3:42 AM Rating: Decent
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I really don't see the point of having miners in a fighting party. Dengeki says it will increase the amount of treasures, but wouldn't it be very boring for the miner being in a fighting party?
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#68 Mar 12 2010 at 3:59 AM Rating: Decent
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- While storing up power, is it impossible to perform any actions that require movement?

A: Moving cancels the act of storing power.



I'm really not sure what to think at this point. Supposedly they've been working on this for over 5 years now? It just seems really rough to me. Not having any type of auto-attack kinda puts me off. Have I missed some sort of info on how this element is going to work? Do you initiate this 'active mode' and just wait for TP to build based on some sort of timer or maybe some of the abilities are inherent and just use a cooldown of some sort? Really not sure about this style of play. They say that the party play is supposed to be nomadic, but the restoral of TP does not work while moving. It doesn't sound like roaming groups will be efficient in building up power for stronger attacks to support this. If they are then it seems they would roam around in some sort of flying V formation with the tank and melee at the head, the archers in back and the casters/lancers in the middle moving in and out of close range to share effects with melee and archers. SE devs have always been kinda secretive and they like to dance around questions, but alot of this info seems to be conflicting.

Quote:
- In a party, a Miner can "let fly some pebbles." Does this mean that pebbles will be their only weapon?

A: Currently, that is the case, but we may prepare something else for them to use as well.

- Can they only use pebbles to weaken ore-based enemies?

A: We are investigating ways for them to use items instead of weapons -- for example, using aqua regia (a corrosive compound that dissolves gold) on a gold-based enemy to weaken it.



Even though we haven't seen how they intend to make them work together it seems like the crafting type classes are more of a burden than something that adds a new dimension or more depth to the group. Miners 'letting fly with pebbles'? What the **** do I wanna toss rocks for when I could just bury a pickaxe in a mob's neck? The aqua regia stuff sounds more like it would fall under the realm of the alchemist rather than the miner. Blacksmiths having to verify your approval before inspecting weapons for repair? What else would a smith bring to your group for? Needing deciples of land to craft arrows makes sense, but not being able to support your class with a craft...or at least not to the full extent that someone who focused solely on that discipline would be? I'm baffled.
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#69 Mar 12 2010 at 4:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Have I missed some sort of info on how this element is going to work? Do you initiate this 'active mode' and just wait for TP to build based on some sort of timer or maybe some of the abilities are inherent and just use a cooldown of some sort? Really not sure about this style of play. They say that the party play is supposed to be nomadic, but the restoral of TP does not work while moving.


I think you're missing something here. Marauders aren't going to stand around charging TP. While they're -in battle- they can basically choose to increase the delay of their attacks for more powerful effects, but they also have to release those attacks before the enemy moves out of range.
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Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

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#70 Mar 12 2010 at 4:11 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm really not sure what to think at this point. Supposedly they've been working on this for over 5 years now? It just seems really rough to me. Not having any type of auto-attack kinda puts me off. Have I missed some sort of info on how this element is going to work? Do you initiate this 'active mode' and just wait for TP to build based on some sort of timer or maybe some of the abilities are inherent and just use a cooldown of some sort? Really not sure about this style of play. They say that the party play is supposed to be nomadic, but the restoral of TP does not work while moving. It doesn't sound like roaming groups will be efficient in building up power for stronger attacks to support this. If they are then it seems they would roam around in some sort of flying V formation with the tank and melee at the head, the archers in back and the casters/lancers in the middle moving in and out of close range to share effects with melee and archers. SE devs have always been kinda secretive and they like to dance around questions, but alot of this info seems to be conflicting.


It's a strategic element given to the Marauder. If you position yourself correctly, you can trigger the skill and do a lot stronger attacks as long as you don't move around. If there are enemies near you, all of them are getting their share of pain. It doesn't mean you'll store more tp, but the attacks will become AoE for example, and skills will work differently.

However, if the monsters move around or you're positioned wrong, the skill won't be as effective and you have to move.

When you're fighting, you don't move around as much. But when the monsters have been killed, you move on. There's no need to use this skill when there are no mobs around. And when fighting, all you have to do is position yourself correctly- the nomadic exploration does not affect this skill in any way.
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#71 Mar 12 2010 at 4:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Well obviously you wouldn't swing at dead mobs, but the way they make it sound is that if you have to move for any reason you cease to gain TP. You can't attack on the move? I guess thats what they mean by the positioning being so important so you don't have people moving around everywhere, but there really isn't mention of how the attacks work. Are some attacks just normal like auto attack and other stronger attacks based on TP? I guess that is what really throws me off. I get a mental picture of running up to a mob and pulling out my weapon, but being unable to attack at all until I have somehow stored up some TP to attack it. This does however make sense for casters or archers and other ranged attackers as they might have some sort of aim or elemental focus mechanic.
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#72 Mar 12 2010 at 4:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Well obviously you wouldn't swing at dead mobs, but the way they make it sound is that if you have to move for any reason you cease to gain TP. You can't attack on the move? I guess thats what they mean by the positioning being so important so you don't have people moving around everywhere, but there really isn't mention of how the attacks work. Are some attacks just normal like auto attack and other stronger attacks based on TP? I guess that is what really throws me off. I get a mental picture of running up to a mob and pulling out my weapon, but being unable to attack at all until I have somehow stored up some TP to attack it. This does however make sense for casters or archers and other ranged attackers as they might have some sort of aim or elemental focus mechanic.


Who has said that you can't attack on the move? Marauder has a SKILL, that when used, allows for the Marauder to do attacks in a wider range, but only when you're not moving around. When you start to move, the skill cancels, but you can still fight normally but only single target enemies.

You generate TP from every attack or spell you do. With enough TP you can use the aforementioned skill. Normal attacks generate TP, not consume it.


Edited, Mar 12th 2010 1:31pm by Hyanmen
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#73 Mar 12 2010 at 4:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Well I don't speak or read romanized japanese or kanji so I kinda have to guess at what they mean. What the **** does 'storing power' mean? I took it to mean gaining some form of TP to use for a more 'powerful' move. I guess teh powa is different than TP. Either way they said that power will not continue to build if you have to move. So if the mobs move then you unleash the mighty whiff or you reposition and "I'm chargin mah powa!" again...

I dunno, I guess I thought that there was no form of auto attack and that you had to stand there building power for some reason to attack something.
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#74 Mar 12 2010 at 4:46 AM Rating: Good
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Think of "building power" as a cast time for melee attacks. If you let it build, you'll "cast" the desired move, but if you move or whatever, you'll have to start over.

Edited, Mar 12th 2010 5:52am by Seriha
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#75 Mar 12 2010 at 5:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Well I don't speak or read romanized japanese or kanji so I kinda have to guess at what they mean. What the @#%^ does 'storing power' mean? I took it to mean gaining some form of TP to use for a more 'powerful' move. I guess teh powa is different than TP. Either way they said that power will not continue to build if you have to move. So if the mobs move then you unleash the mighty whiff or you reposition and "I'm chargin mah powa!" again...

I dunno, I guess I thought that there was no form of auto attack and that you had to stand there building power for some reason to attack something.


Me neither, but I still get the point.

When you're doing a skill, you can choose to boost it's power by maybe holding down a button or something. If you store enough power this way, the skill becomes stronger, AoE, etc. However, if you move, the bonus goes away. "Storing power" makes the skill you use with TP stronger, not make more skills available by storing more TP.

There is no auto attack. Why you think this is a bad thing, I don't know. You can choose when to attack and when to not to. Fast and accurate strike, or strong and inaccurate strike... blunt or slashing or piercing attack...
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#76 Mar 12 2010 at 5:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Thats exactly what came to mind. I'm standing there charging up my furious whirlwind of fiery death and the mob moves for whatever reason so I start back at square one. The reason I ask is because in the only game footage I've ever seen there is a character with a sword and shield (I'm guessing NOT a Marauder, the job specifically stated as storing up this mysterious 'power') and he runs up to a mob with sword drawn. After standing there facing the mob for(what seemed like an eternity) literally 5-6 seconds he makes a quick lunge and strikes at the mob. Then about 8 seconds later he does some sort of spinning attack and appears to strike another target next to his original target as well.

So am I understanding it correctly that you DO have an auto attack and you just specify that you would like it to be a short(if you call 5 seconds short) and quick, medium(did it just take me 10 seconds to perform that?) and somewhat strong or long(I'm going for a smoke break) and very strong AoE attack; all of these building TP for the other abilities?
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#77 Mar 12 2010 at 6:10 AM Rating: Decent
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For the people saying, ice mage this, light mage that. Like they said in the interview, it's not going to be a 1 mob back to camp type game. You move around meaning most likely each mob u fight is different, and if u encounter that one mob that ur mage is not good against, i guess thats where the skill comes into play.
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#78 Mar 12 2010 at 6:13 AM Rating: Good
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Thats exactly what came to mind. I'm standing there charging up my furious whirlwind of fiery death and the mob moves for whatever reason so I start back at square one. The reason I ask is because in the only game footage I've ever seen there is a character with a sword and shield (I'm guessing NOT a Marauder, the job specifically stated as storing up this mysterious 'power') and he runs up to a mob with sword drawn. After standing there facing the mob for(what seemed like an eternity) literally 5-6 seconds he makes a quick lunge and strikes at the mob. Then about 8 seconds later he does some sort of spinning attack and appears to strike another target next to his original target as well.

So am I understanding it correctly that you DO have an auto attack and you just specify that you would like it to be a short(if you call 5 seconds short) and quick, medium(did it just take me 10 seconds to perform that?) and somewhat strong or long(I'm going for a smoke break) and very strong AoE attack; all of these building TP for the other abilities?


I will explain what happened in the game footage:

Character with a sword and shield (Gladiator) runs up to a mob with his sword drawn. As he stands there, chat log shows a spam of text- particularly "You cannot use that skill at this time."

Why is this? Because the player did not understand the concept of storing your TP with normal attacks before using special skills. He keeps spamming the special skill but due to not having any TP he cannot strike the mob. After a while he succeeds in attacking the monster with a normal swing that generates TP, but after that he spams every special there is but with no success, because he still has no TP after one swing. At the same time, the monster he's facing keeps hitting him time and time again and that generates TP to the player as well- and after 8 seconds the player has finally generated enough TP from the mobs hitting him that he can unleash the spinning attack on the monsters.

Yes, you can choose which attack to perform.. short but agile, or if you wait longer, strong but inaccurate. However, you're not stressed to press the attack button as soon as it's up, because it will keep getting stronger even if you don't press it immediately. These attacks generate TP for other abilities like the Spinning attack. But- it's not as long wait as the game footage seemed to show- it's just that the player sucked at playing the game. 3 to 4 seconds should be enough to do a fast strike. I'd also assume that once the battle goes on for longer, there are multiple mobs and some classes have the ability to conserve TP, you have a lot to do in the fight aside from just using the normal attacks. However at the start of the fight you might have to use some normal attacks before the fight really gets rolling. Speculation, though.

Edited, Mar 12th 2010 3:18pm by Hyanmen

Edited, Mar 12th 2010 3:18pm by Hyanmen
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#79 Mar 12 2010 at 9:38 AM Rating: Good
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Zemzelette wrote:

Quote:
- Can Archers make arrows by themselves?

A: Only Disciples of the Hand will be able to make arrows. However, in the future, by putting abilities from a Disciple of the Hand on an Archer, they could attain some limited crafting ability.


Eeeehhhh?
Doth I hear something that lends itself to the idea of adding the abilities of an inactive class to an active one?
That's what I'd like to hear anyway. I can't believe they're still kinda' tiptoeing around this subject with fuzzy language. Oddly much like that damned DoM/DoW comment*, it can be taken either way; that you can add crafting abilities to your archer class, or you can add crafting abilities to your character whom is primarily considered an archer because it's the highest skill but would still require a job shift to perform the crafting actions.

Little late in the game to still be playing verbal footsie, guys.

That was the answer that stood out for me too. It sure sounds to me like they're talking about equipping subskills. They've hinted about it enough times (I can't remember all of them now) that I figure this has got to be a feature. But you're right that they're still being kind of vague about it for something so fundamental to the game.
#80 Mar 12 2010 at 9:56 AM Rating: Good
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insanekangaroo wrote:
I really don't see the point of having miners in a fighting party. Dengeki says it will increase the amount of treasures, but wouldn't it be very boring for the miner being in a fighting party?

I think there was a comment made in a previous interview regarding Disciples of the Hand/Land having limited fighting ability. I would imagine that Miners would be able to defend themselves with their picks if necessary.

Also in before lolgaxe's comments about pictures of the miners being Roegadyn.
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#81 Mar 12 2010 at 10:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Ralrra wrote:
insanekangaroo wrote:
I really don't see the point of having miners in a fighting party. Dengeki says it will increase the amount of treasures, but wouldn't it be very boring for the miner being in a fighting party?

I think there was a comment made in a previous interview regarding Disciples of the Hand/Land having limited fighting ability. I would imagine that Miners would be able to defend themselves with their picks if necessary.

Also in before lolgaxe's comments about pictures of the miners being Roegadyn.


It was stated somewhere in Elmers text that miners can attack using pebbles. I don't really see how this could 1) contribute to the party, or 2) be any fun for the miner.

Why not change job to a fighter type job before engaging in fight with a party?
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#82 Mar 12 2010 at 11:34 AM Rating: Good
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Seeing the emphasis on Guildeves for leveling, I would guess that a lot of these DoH/DoL party situations are in the individual Guildeves. In that case, you may choose one that requires a miner to dig a rare ore and a blacksmith to forge a key to open a door to allow access to a boss.
SE likes to have requirements like this for missions (3 mage gate in low-end Horototo comes to mind)
I also thought blacksmiths might get the armor reducing skills that were stuck of Great Axe WS's in FFXI (Armor Break, etc)
It seems that parties including DoH/DoL may very well be in Guildeve situations more so than wandering the world map killing random mobs. In fact, world map wandering parties may be the exception rather than the norm, with everyone crowding into Guildeve leveling situations, whether those be instanced or in the open.
Although, I think it would be funny to see 6 culinarians stabbing a pugil with filet knives...

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#83 Mar 12 2010 at 11:37 AM Rating: Good
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Sooo......the beta is going to finish in 6 months, or we won't be able to play the beta for another 6 months...?
#84 Mar 12 2010 at 12:10 PM Rating: Good
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Think about it this way.
You have a party of 6, and have about 3 guildleves that in some way relate to the point you can group together and amass this epic campaign of glorious reward. But the lalafell chirps up that he has this Miner friend, and he's got this guildleve to mine some adamantium right where you happen to be going. Sure, why not give the guy an escort? More gil during the battles themselves, in not like he's going to encroach on your 'exp', and you'll be all over the place anyway; between that epic dragon fight, your grindy leve, and that fetch a ??? quest, so it's not like it's out of your way.

Now think of this from the Miner's perspective. He's not going to want to sit there helplessly (and bored) while the rest of the group is working hard. Even if he never touched a DoW/DoM, The Miner wants to contribute.
#85 Mar 12 2010 at 12:58 PM Rating: Good
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I am a bit dissappointed that THF isn't really making the transition from FFXI to FFXIV, although Lancer and Pugilist get some of their abilities, if pugilist can use weapons other than H2H (Dagger), I might try one of those, or maybe a lancer.
#86 Mar 12 2010 at 1:07 PM Rating: Decent
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Hmmm....seems Lancers are going to be inheriting the core abilites of FFXI Thieves with Collison(Trick Attack) and and Overrun(Sneak Attack). All and all I'm liking that Lancer is shaping up to be more of a tactical class then an all out brawler. Hopefully with thier hate management, support, and debuff skills Lancers with be able to shake off the I'm a moron stigma and get a decent amount of PT invites.

There was mention of guncrafting being an advance style of blacksmithing. It was said that Archers can't use crossbows, then I doubt they'll use something as gauche as a a rifle or pistol. So the question is, who uses the crafted guns? Maybe an unintened hint at an advance or unrevealed job/class.

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#87 Mar 12 2010 at 4:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Hyanmen wrote:
3 to 4 seconds should be enough to do a fast strike. I'd also assume that once the battle goes on for longer, there are multiple mobs and some classes have the ability to conserve TP, you have a lot to do in the fight aside from just using the normal attacks. However at the start of the fight you might have to use some normal attacks before the fight really gets rolling. Speculation, though.



I really hope it doesn't take that long. 4 seconds to charge up a weak strike with a one handed weapon... I'd stroke out waiting for a powerful strike with a two-hander. I don't want it to be so fast you don't have time to think, but I think they had it right with the delays they were working with in XI. Maybe they will scale this down a bit for the actual release.
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#88 Mar 12 2010 at 5:20 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I really hope it doesn't take that long. 4 seconds to charge up a weak strike with a one handed weapon... I'd stroke out waiting for a powerful strike with a two-hander. I don't want it to be so fast you don't have time to think, but I think they had it right with the delays they were working with in XI. Maybe they will scale this down a bit for the actual release.


XI had a delay of 4 seconds at best, too. Swinging a scythe took nearly 8 seconds. I don't know what you're looking for anymore. It can't be as slow as XI, but it's gotta be as fast as in XI. I'm confused.

4 seconds is quite enough to think what you want to do. Faster than that, and there might be too much information, especially when your position and direction need be considered as well as reacting to monster's attacks. When you gain abilities like Haste things get even more hectic. We need to remember this game's combat is strategic, not twitch-based.
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#89 Mar 12 2010 at 7:50 PM Rating: Good
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People complaining about the pacing of the fight and the amount of time needed to attack need to stop thinking in the DoT and standard auto-attack and button mashing fests that plague a lot of MMORPGs (even FFXI in this case) and start thinking more along the lines of the ATB system in a ton of other Final Fantasy games. You are not autoattacking, you are choosing a command for everything on a gauge, when the gauge fills up, you initiate what you put into the gauge. It could be a simple attack, it could be you decide to use the 'defend' command till your gauge comes back up to be used. You could be selecting a spell to be used, an ability that uses tp etc. This is a real time/turn based combat engine that asks you to think ahead for every action including just making a simple attack.

The way I saw the marauder info is this. You must still wait for the normal gauge to fill up, and than when the ability intiates after the gauge is filled you are given the ability to store up the power on another gauge (Store TP gauge or something), while this gauge fills up ready to be executed, you can't move or it will cancel the affect, however you can move while waiting for the action gauge to fill and thus a simple sword swipe would just go off automatically once the gauge fills and wouldn't be interuppted. This also means spells like haste will have a more visual affect. Your ATB gauge would change color and fill faster, allowing for more abilities and spells to be used including your normal attack, but its YOU that chooses what comes with what.

A good example of what this system might end up being like is a slower version of the FFXIII battle system. You still must enter commands manually although in FFXIII there is a computer based 'auto-attack' that you select that gives you a command to fit a given situation and than just initiate it (not in this game but in FFXIII). In that game you can store up abilities on the ATB gauge to be fired off when its fully charged. The difference is of course in FFXIV you are only storing up for one ability, where as FFXIII you can micromanage your next 1-4 abilities used in sequence or cut it short and initiate the first ahead of a complete fill.

Once again, don't look at this system like the normal MMORPG style system, but more like a party based ATB from all the previous Final Fantasy games (except FFXII, since that one actually did have an auto-attack).
#90 Mar 12 2010 at 8:16 PM Rating: Good
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I am very happy with the direction so far for the most part. Like others here have mentioned, they are being vague about it, but it seems like sub-class skills will be available. I do hope this is the case, and I still am hoping for a system similar to BLU's ability assignment. Being able to pick and choose abilities and spells from several different classes sounds good to me. Take Pugilist and add to it the flee and hide from Archer, and the TA from Lancer, and the TH from Blacksmith mayhaps? Just speculation on my part, but it is sounding like a reasonable scenario based on the collective info and the concept of customizable classes.

As for the whole bit about maybe giving race bonuses, I really hope not. If they are waiting for player feedback, I hope it comes back to keep stats the same between races. I'm in the "I don't wanna feel guilty about being a taru tank" crowd. I think it will be sufficient to have stat differences based upon class or "growth".

Another thing that bothered me was the part about switching classes durring battle. Now they said, that players wouldn't be able to switch classes durring battle. But here they state that you simply need to change from "battle mode" to passive mode...........huh? Maybe they just didn't explain it well, or maybe its just SE being more vague and secretive. All I do know is if its a simple as it sounds, then what would prevent people from just putting away their weapons for a second and coming back out with a new one? I guess only time will tell, but this makes me think of several older speculation threads worried about everybody being uber gods. Anyone else concerned about this, or should I not read too much into it and trust in the almighty SE?
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#91 Mar 12 2010 at 8:55 PM Rating: Decent
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AmsaimSutavarg wrote:
I am very happy with the direction so far for the most part. Like others here have mentioned, they are being vague about it, but it seems like sub-class skills will be available. I do hope this is the case, and I still am hoping for a system similar to BLU's ability assignment. Being able to pick and choose abilities and spells from several different classes sounds good to me. Take Pugilist and add to it the flee and hide from Archer, and the TA from Lancer, and the TH from Blacksmith mayhaps? Just speculation on my part, but it is sounding like a reasonable scenario based on the collective info and the concept of customizable classes.

As for the whole bit about maybe giving race bonuses, I really hope not. If they are waiting for player feedback, I hope it comes back to keep stats the same between races. I'm in the "I don't wanna feel guilty about being a taru tank" crowd. I think it will be sufficient to have stat differences based upon class or "growth".

Another thing that bothered me was the part about switching classes durring battle. Now they said, that players wouldn't be able to switch classes durring battle. But here they state that you simply need to change from "battle mode" to passive mode...........huh? Maybe they just didn't explain it well, or maybe its just SE being more vague and secretive. All I do know is if its a simple as it sounds, then what would prevent people from just putting away their weapons for a second and coming back out with a new one? I guess only time will tell, but this makes me think of several older speculation threads worried about everybody being uber gods. Anyone else concerned about this, or should I not read too much into it and trust in the almighty SE?


I would think that once you've drawn your weapon, entered "battle mode", and engaged an enemy you can't switch to passive mode until you've either defeated the enemy or escaped the battle.
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#92 Mar 12 2010 at 9:50 PM Rating: Decent
I am a little disappointed no pet class made it to FFXIV but you never know, if they have a hunter class maybe they will morph or charm. Still I'm happy it isn't just a copy of FFXI and I'm really excited about the way it seems to be developing. I am just a bit surprised we don't seem to have a class that fills the roll of rogue/thief, something that was slightly evil but in a good way. Lalafell like Tarutaru seem to play devious characters so well I would hate to think of everyone as all "Goody Two Shoes" that could be a little bland.
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#93 Mar 12 2010 at 10:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
I am a little disappointed no pet class made it to FFXIV but you never know, if they have a hunter class maybe they will morph or charm. Still I'm happy it isn't just a copy of FFXI and I'm really excited about the way it seems to be developing. I am just a bit surprised we don't seem to have a class that fills the roll of rogue/thief, something that was slightly evil but in a good way. Lalafell like Tarutaru seem to play devious characters so well I would hate to think of everyone as all "Goody Two Shoes" that could be a little bland.


The only quote we have of them in regards to pet classes is that there wouldn't be any at the start of the games launch. What most don't know about FFXI (since most came on for the NA launch) is that FFXI also didn't start with any pet jobs. They didn't come till after a couple of patches later when they introduced the advanced jobs and even than it was just BST. SMN didn't show up till around the zilaart release and DRG obviously didn't come till than too. Plenty of time and room for them to be add later if the mechanics will work for it.

I also commend them on actually experimenting with play styles and not go the generic Dungeons and Dragons and old school style FF jobs. This allows them more room to actually create new play styles and make it feel fresh for long time MMORPG players. I have a feeling we will see a dagger class down the line, but the question is will it be Disciple of War or will it be something coming from Disciple of the Land or Hand. Like a skinning knife for instance. I also see the possibility of an Assasin style of class coming later that also might come from a dagger instead. They would just get battle abilities with a different focus than the THF's in FFXI (Like the knights break abilities in FFT and various status anomalies that cripple foes is how I envision another class playing out :)).

#94 Mar 12 2010 at 10:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
XI had a delay of 4 seconds at best, too. Swinging a scythe took nearly 8 seconds. I don't know what you're looking for anymore. It can't be as slow as XI, but it's gotta be as fast as in XI. I'm confused.


I guess its unfair to make conclusions based on a character who we have no idea what kind of stats he's working with. Delay in XI is slightly quicker than what I saw in the video, but I guess I was just hoping it would be faster. It shouldn't be so fast that you need catlike reflexes to play(1 second cooldowns come to mind), but not so slow that you don't have any interaction with the battles.

Quote:
4 seconds is quite enough to think what you want to do. Faster than that, and there might be too much information, especially when your position and direction need be considered as well as reacting to monster's attacks. When you gain abilities like Haste things get even more hectic. We need to remember this game's combat is strategic, not twitch-based.


4 seconds is a little bit longer than the delay you would have if you bought a starter sword in sandy and went out to whack some rabbits. IIRC with a level 1 wax sword your delay for a normal swing would put you just over a 3 second swing timer. To me this or something a bit lower is a more comfortable range for one handed weapons. There isn't much strategy involved in killing a mindless dodo I'd imagine, so not much to think about. My hope was that these stances they spoke of would allow you to dictate a bit more of what you are trying to do in a battle.

For example you might choose 'attacker' stance as a gladiator to give up some of your defensive abilities for faster attacking or higher attack power. Perfect for mowing down weaker enemies. Alternatively you might choose 'defender' stance and give up your heavier attack abilities and speed. This could be used against more dangerous foes you encounter where keeping yourself from taking massive damage is more important. Weather or not the scale of the battles is so strategic that we need more time remains to be seen. I was just hoping for a faster paced experience.
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#95 Mar 13 2010 at 12:27 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm still waiting for news of a dagger-using class. ; ;

Quote:
XI had a delay of 4 seconds at best, too.


4 seconds is what it took me to swing twice, at worst. <.<; Sometimes, I even swung 6 times in 3 seconds!

Edited, Mar 13th 2010 5:33am by Deadgye
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#96 Mar 13 2010 at 12:31 AM Rating: Decent
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I thought the note about adding new weapon types at a later date was interesting. Where do you all think the other weapon types would fall in terms of job distribution? Up to this point we haven't seen that any weapon types are shared between jobs with the exception of staff.

Unused from FFXI...


* Axe
* Club
* Dagger
* Great Katana
* Great Sword
* Katana
* Marksmanship
* Scythe
* Throwing
* Instruments

They mentioned GS maybe going to Marauders, but that's pretty much the only one I can see fitting with the current jobs. Club might turn into wand and become a caster type weapon, but Gladiator is the only job at this point that can use one handed weapons and the chances of them getting Axe, Dagger and Katana seems slim.

Just give me a ninja class and I'll be happy ; ;
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#97 Mar 13 2010 at 2:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
People complaining about the pacing of the fight and the amount of time needed to attack need to stop thinking in the DoT and standard auto-attack and button mashing fests that plague a lot of MMORPGs (even FFXI in this case) and start thinking more along the lines of the ATB system in a ton of other Final Fantasy games. You are not autoattacking, you are choosing a command for everything on a gauge, when the gauge fills up, you initiate what you put into the gauge. It could be a simple attack, it could be you decide to use the 'defend' command till your gauge comes back up to be used. You could be selecting a spell to be used, an ability that uses tp etc. This is a real time/turn based combat engine that asks you to think ahead for every action including just making a simple attack.


After reading this, the Crono Trigger battle music literally started playing in my head. I never had a problem with that battle system, a more in-depth one shouldn't hurt...
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#98 Mar 13 2010 at 5:55 AM Rating: Decent
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Hey there.

All this is merely speculation of course, but its all fun to make these images of how the game will eventually turn out to be in the end.

Axe: one-handed axes could very well be used by gladiators.
Club: Blacksmith, Marauder maybe...
Dagger: Well, atleast not the lancer!!!
Great Katana: Hoping for another class with some samurai/ninja skills.
Great Sword: Marauder for sure.
Katana: As mentioned before ninja class type of something something.
Marksmanship: dunno.
Scythe: Maybe ive been eating too much fresh mugworth but i see the scythe as a tool as well as a weapon, so i was thinking this could be used by Diciple of the land maybe???
Throwing: Miner or Blacksmith.
Instruments: Maybe the bards will be included after some patches, who knows.

Pure speculations of course, it will be fun to see what it all turns out to be. I know i will love to see those shiny armors and the details flashing before my eyes in XIV. Hoping SE will add so much gear in this one that no one will be alike (Not complaining about XI)
A change is not far from us.
Trying to see this as it is, a new game with similarities to XI but in general a whole new game with a world undiscovered and ready to be explored. Im thrilled!!!

Battlesystem seems to become an adrenalin rush and thumbs up for new chat options/linkshell(community)options.
Graphics looks awesome and the options for crafting may be even more in-depth than ever (or so, im hoping).
And i hope for even more fish-types as i was kind of hooked on the fishing in XI. XD
While im at it im also hoping for some better solutions for inventory without making things too easy. (Maybe separated inventory slots for quest-items. Key-items should remain the same as in XI imo.

This is actually my first post, sorry for the bad writing. Ive been a member here for some time but never really gotten myself to involve in conversations, most because i see much has been answered before or that im waiting for it to be mentioned as i predict in many cases it will be brought into discussion :D.

Im a big fan of this forum and all the people and opinions they share.
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#99 Mar 13 2010 at 9:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Keiro wrote:
Unused from FFXI...


* Axe
* Club
* Dagger
* Great Katana
* Great Sword
* Katana
* Marksmanship
* Scythe
* Throwing
* Instruments


Well throwing is split. Miners can throw stones, pualists can throw chakrams I think. As for the rest, they may not be given to existing jobs. They may not even be in there at launch and being saved for other classes down the line. They did mention guns so there may be a gun class they haven't mentioned yet. I'm sure something will use a dagger eventually. Other than that, who knows.
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#100 Mar 13 2010 at 9:28 AM Rating: Good
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Raymund wrote:
Keiro wrote:
Unused from FFXI...


* Axe
* Club
* Dagger
* Great Katana
* Great Sword
* Katana
* Marksmanship
* Scythe
* Throwing
* Instruments


Well throwing is split. Miners can throw stones, pualists can throw chakrams I think. As for the rest, they may not be given to existing jobs. They may not even be in there at launch and being saved for other classes down the line. They did mention guns so there may be a gun class they haven't mentioned yet. I'm sure something will use a dagger eventually. Other than that, who knows.


The official site's tab for Marauders says that "Throwing axes such as the francisca supplement the marauder's aresenal" As a real-life throwing axe, the francisca is a one-hand weapon. Perhaps Marauders will be able to wield them at melee range, as well.
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#101 Mar 13 2010 at 9:50 AM Rating: Decent
Munba wrote:
Jp site update with new Battle Music, yup. :D

http://jp.finalfantasyxiv.com/


Play this music while watching bsphil's avatar. Mesmerizing. Smiley: nod

Edited, Mar 13th 2010 9:51am by Chialing
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