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FFXIV Class Forums?Follow

#1 Mar 13 2010 at 5:14 AM Rating: Good
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Slowly detailed information about classes is coming out. Threads are starting to emerge, discussing various aspects of specifik classes. It seems to me that the time has come to create the various class forums. (>°°)b
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#2 Mar 13 2010 at 5:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Good suggestion is good!
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#3 Mar 13 2010 at 5:40 AM Rating: Decent
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No it's too early. It's not good having to click around 8 different sub-forums with one thread in each. Wait for game launch, then we'll get our class forums ^^
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#4 Mar 13 2010 at 11:38 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't think it's the time yet. It would just be seven (or 15, if you include the crafting and gathering classes) more forums pikko and elmer (or whoever) would have to monitor for NDA breaking. There's no reason to have class forums yet as there isn't anything you can do with classes yet but speculate and say which one you want to play.
#5 Mar 13 2010 at 12:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, I'm sorry, but we're not going to create 9 splintered forums at this point, it's just too early. I'll talk to the devs and see what they say about a general class forum for now though, but I don't know that we'd even do that.

This might be a good thread for you guys to suggest forums that you'd like to see once we do expand though. I know that we'll end up with a Crafting forum. We'll definitely NOT do race forums because those were just terrible for XI.
#6 Mar 13 2010 at 12:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Pikko wrote:
Yeah, I'm sorry, but we're not going to create 9 splintered forums at this point, it's just too early. I'll talk to the devs and see what they say about a general class forum for now though, but I don't know that we'd even do that.

This might be a good thread for you guys to suggest forums that you'd like to see once we do expand though. I know that we'll end up with a Crafting forum. We'll definitely NOT do race forums because those were just terrible for XI.


I think a general class forum might be a good addition for now. I'd feel a lot more comfortable blathering about job information and speculation there, plus we could have a sticky for all existing information about the classes.
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#7 Mar 13 2010 at 1:35 PM Rating: Decent
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I know it's very early but under the other hand there are threads being made now that I would like to see in class stickies. It's data that you want to look back up and want also want other people to see / not get lost in the sea of random threads. For example:Class info compiled.

And would we really want the trend of 9 threads with the same title, but different class ("Fear and worries class X") spamm?
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#8 Mar 13 2010 at 1:39 PM Rating: Default
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I don't see why not. There's not exactly a ton of activity around here, even now. All the info we know of each class is available in that one thread or on the official website now. We don't know any more than that.
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#9 Mar 13 2010 at 2:03 PM Rating: Decent
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I know that we'll end up with a Crafting forum
Well I'm think the class and crafting forums would be hand in hand since everything is Disciplines now. Maybe just a general, suggestion/feedback, server, and discipline (either broken up into the four categories or just all of them listed).
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#10 Mar 13 2010 at 2:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well, I can't make any official requests until Monday, so if we can come to a general consensus now, I'd love to have something ready to request.
#11 Mar 13 2010 at 3:47 PM Rating: Decent
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I think it's either class forums or wait. If you made a simplified version now, you would have to change it later again and the threads would be kind of lost.

Some crafter/gather classes having their own section might be over the top(Like Race forums now), but it might make people creative with map / recipe threads?
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#12 Mar 13 2010 at 4:01 PM Rating: Decent
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We just don't know enough about the crafting or the crafting jobs yet to really tell. Have to see how in depth their battle abilities are. Clumping them all together may or may not work.
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#13 Mar 13 2010 at 4:02 PM Rating: Decent
Should Pikko petition the ZAM devs to add sub-forums to the FFXIV boards?
Yes, individual class forums would be good.:7 (12.5%)
Yes, a single sub-forum for discussion of classes while the game is in beta would be good.:17 (30.4%)
Yes, might as well fill out the entire sub-forum structure now (classes, crafting, endgame).:1 (1.8%)
No, wait until the game is near release.:31 (55.4%)
Total:56
#14 Mar 13 2010 at 4:14 PM Rating: Decent
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I say leave the forums as it is for now. Class specific discussions consist mostly of speculation and polls on who wants what etc. I don't see any point in catagorizing threads until SE releases so much info that a sigle forum can no longer cope with all the discussion taking place. I check the forums almost daily, and I never have to go to page 2 to read all the active threads.

Frankly I don't see the need for more forums until the games been released when people start coming up with strats etc for the different jobs and guildleve's etc.
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#15 Mar 13 2010 at 5:47 PM Rating: Good
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Stick with one board for now. Always felt XI's number of boards were far too numerous with even Job Specific ones being questionable at times.
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#16 Mar 13 2010 at 5:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Forums need to be left the way they are for now. I understand the desire some users feel to have sub forums set up so early. We're all eager to prepare for FFXIV and just sitting on your hands waiting isn't fun. But There isn't enough traffic, threads, or information to warrant a splinter yet, there will be, but not yet.
#17 Mar 13 2010 at 8:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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We actually really like dyvidd's suggestion of making disciple forums. We might do that and then leave it that way instead of making a forum for every class. That is, unless you all feel that'll be necessary?
#18 Mar 13 2010 at 10:06 PM Rating: Decent
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At this point I think all we need a class forum and a general forum, unless you just want to prepare for later.
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#19 Mar 13 2010 at 10:18 PM Rating: Good
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Too early to tell, really. On one hand, segregating conversation might get you more concise info, but on the other hand, more conglomerated conversation could result in points coming up that people of the job/class themselves may not have specifically considered.

My crack at XI's job forums was sort of along the lines of people who have never touched or gone to the RDM board still mysteriously knowing how the job should play in every situation. And while the RDMs can prattle at each other all they want, isolated chatter or strategy can't really change player opinion both without them seeing it (in action) and accepting it.

If it turns out we can mix and match job abilities based on what we've learned over time, niche forums becomes somewhat counterintuitive since one person's pugilist can be totally different than another's, and still effective at what they'd been setting out to do.

If I were to consider a future set of forums, it'd possibly be these:
1) Official SE announcements and Update Information (New posts locked to administrators only, general posting/reactions within topics okay)
2) General Discussion.
3) Feedback and Bug Reports (Bonus points if SE's more active here this time around)
4) Class Discussion
5) Information/Exploration (Talk about zone layouts, mob locations, loot, leve objectives... in other words, be helpful here and not a condescending jackass like select XI personalities)

Naturally, you're going to have some carry-over no matter how you try to splinter things. 2 and 5 might be the biggest violators of this, but I'm thinking things like loljob crap can stay out of 5 or bragging about how if you can't do X with Y, you're noob. Info on 5 can also be converted toward Wiki information with enough confirmation of trimming of fat.
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#20 Mar 13 2010 at 10:57 PM Rating: Good
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We actually really like dyvidd's suggestion of making disciple forums. We might do that and then leave it that way instead of making a forum for every class. That is, unless you all feel that'll be necessary?


I would advise against. There's no telling at this point how things will shape up. Even though SE clearly intends for Hand and Land to be major game elements, it's still very possible that they'll be completely overshadowed by the combat disciplines, and you may end up wanting to do class-specific forums for the combat disciplines but not Hand/Land. There's also no real need to distinguish between magic and nonmagic classes at this point, and there may never be.

I'd wait for at least one more major update. There are still too many unknown mechanics that depend on the community's response to the gameplay. At this point, the absolute most I would do is create a forum for class-related discussions (if that's what you meant, creating a single "Disciplines" forum, then that's not a bad idea).

Edited, Mar 13th 2010 9:01pm by Kachi
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#21 Mar 13 2010 at 11:03 PM Rating: Decent
Pikko wrote:
We actually really like dyvidd's suggestion of making disciple forums. We might do that and then leave it that way instead of making a forum for every class. That is, unless you all feel that'll be necessary?


I think that a forum for each combat class will eventually be necessary. DotH/DotL would probably warrant one combined forum since it's not too likely that it would need an entire subforum to discuss gathering, but for each combat class there's only so much information that can be accurately conveyed in the wiki. On the surface the classes will likely be fairly straightforward but when people start looking into adding skills from other classes to augment their main class, having DoW/DoM lumped into just a couple of forums could become very unwieldy. If I'm playing a Gladiator and wondering what kind of skills from other classes I might want to be incorporating into my build and, perhaps more importantly, discuss how to make best use of them, sifting through myriad threads totally unrelated to Gladiators is just going to be frustrating.

Edited, Mar 13th 2010 9:04pm by AureliusSir
#22 Mar 14 2010 at 4:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Actually as of right now Pikko all that would really matter to me is a general class forum. There is no need for forums for individual class/discs(whatever u wanna call em) As of right now just making a General class forum would be enough and putting stickies or what not of the info that we have at this current time for each class/disc in that forum. Leaving this forum for SE announcements and the mindless banter and drooling that we've been doing anyways lol. Just my 2 cents.
#23 Mar 14 2010 at 12:15 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, I think one class forum is good at this point, but then we have to think about how to splinter that forum once the game is released. I guess what we could do is just completely close down that forum (but leave it visible) similar to what we're going to do for some XI server forums. We could move any really good threads that stand out. Thoughts on that?
#24 Mar 14 2010 at 12:22 PM Rating: Decent
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I think there's enough info floating around that one class forum is acceptable. Even if just for speculation.
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#25 Mar 14 2010 at 12:34 PM Rating: Good
Pikko wrote:
Yeah, I think one class forum is good at this point, but then we have to think about how to splinter that forum once the game is released. I guess what we could do is just completely close down that forum (but leave it visible) similar to what we're going to do for some XI server forums. We could move any really good threads that stand out. Thoughts on that?


I'm still seeing an abundance of posts on the first page of threads from two days ago. I don't think the level of traffic right now warrants another forum, and I'd be concerned about the impact a closed but viewable forum would have later on down the road. For a new game with new players clicking around looking for information, having a dead sub-forum hanging around from beta days would likely just lead to confusion. I would say that if it goes a solid week where you have to go to page two to see all of the threads that have been active on the current day then yes, it might warrant adding another forum. Until then, my personal opinion is that it would just be making more work for a marginal benefit.
#26 Mar 14 2010 at 12:46 PM Rating: Good
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Pikko wrote:
Yeah, I think one class forum is good at this point, but then we have to think about how to splinter that forum once the game is released. I guess what we could do is just completely close down that forum (but leave it visible) similar to what we're going to do for some XI server forums. We could move any really good threads that stand out. Thoughts on that?


I think you can't leave out the notion that the level of discussion will increase if another forum is added, which I think is definitely possible. Plus, with the beta going underway soon, there's bound to be more information on the horizon. I think that whether or not the forum topics currently extend past the first page is kind of an arbitrary way of deciding when a new forum should go up. So I'm in favor of adding a new one for the disciplines, yeah.

I don't see the harm in moving the best threads to new class forums as the need arises. Don't know about leaving a dead forum visible, though it would be interesting in an internet-archeological thing, heh.

Edited, Mar 14th 2010 1:47pm by Eske
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#27 Mar 14 2010 at 4:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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AureliusSir the Irrelevant wrote:
I'm still seeing an abundance of posts on the first page of threads from two days ago.


This is actually why a dev prompted me to figure out what forum(s) to make.
#28 Mar 14 2010 at 9:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Just move all old threads to the General forum. It's not like it will be vital at all for them to be categorized properly.
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#29 Mar 14 2010 at 10:05 PM Rating: Good
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Pikko wrote:
AureliusSir the Irrelevant wrote:
I'm still seeing an abundance of posts on the first page of threads from two days ago.
This is actually why a dev prompted me to figure out what forum(s) to make.
New forums wouldn't make more new threads appear on the front page, though. In fact, it'd make less since they'd be split apart. The only way it'll pick up is when new information is put out, and I think we all know how forthcoming Square tends to be with new information.

That being said, it just makes more sense to keep all speculation on a game that isn't released yet in one place. In fact, once that game is released, the speculation forum should be locked to prevent inane necrobumping. XI is already getting a few "HUR HUR SERVER MERJ I IS AM RIT" bumps. Once the game comes out, make some job threads, and that should be enough. No reason for a tradeskill forum, since that's (apparently) going to be a job, anyway. Race forums are ... well ... let's just leave that alone. Server forums maybe. End game can wait. A Feedback forum would be useless, too. They don't read that, and its just a lot of painful to the gray matter fanfiction.

At least, that makes organizational sense to someone that postswhores. Jus' sayin'.
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#30 Mar 15 2010 at 12:02 AM Rating: Good
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Pikko wrote:
Yeah, I think one class forum is good at this point, but then we have to think about how to splinter that forum once the game is released. I guess what we could do is just completely close down that forum (but leave it visible) similar to what we're going to do for some XI server forums. We could move any really good threads that stand out. Thoughts on that?


Does your forum software allow thread prefixes? I know vBulletin allows this, and maybe others do as well.

If so, by forcing the user to select a pre-defined thread prefix for the class or discipline being discussed, it would keep things organized enough to make splitting everything into individual forums feasible in the future.

For example, the available thread prefixes could be the following along with color coding:

[DoW]
[Archer]
[Gladiator]
[Lancer]
[Marauder]
[Pugilist]


[DoM]
[Conjurer]
[Thaumaturge]


[DoL]
[Botanist]
[Miner]


[DoH]
[Alchemist]
[Blacksmith]
[Culinarian]
[Tanner]
[Weaver]


[General]
#31 Mar 15 2010 at 2:57 AM Rating: Good
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good idea, but probably better to wait until beta comes out and the NDA is lifted.
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#32 Mar 15 2010 at 3:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Well to be honest as long the game isn't far in the beta we only get limited info so what use is it to do it now.
The only information we get now is the info we get from the site or devs.

And seeing there are only like 15 threads on the first page that are from today and yesterday i don't think it is needed aslong it doesn't become more active.
#33 Mar 15 2010 at 4:21 AM Rating: Decent
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The FFXIV leg of Zam started days after the announcement when we didn't know anything but it was still fun to speculate and imagine. Now that we know the classes it is time to branch off the forums. It would be interesting to read posts from people with similar job interests as myself.
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#34 Mar 15 2010 at 4:56 AM Rating: Decent
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I was wondering if it would be technically possible to make a forum which posts threads from all the other forums together?

It wouldn't be a forum where you would be able to post a new thread, just reply to the original threads.

It would be kind of like a hot topics forum, showing where the most recent posting action is.

The exposure this forumtype gives would counter creepy back alley sub forums where the most notorious shifty trolls hang too.

Right now this forum type wouldn't have any use, but in conjunction with the subforums later I think it would help.
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#35 Mar 15 2010 at 5:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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The FFXIV leg of Zam started days after the announcement when we didn't know anything but it was still fun to speculate and imagine. Now that we know the classes it is time to branch off the forums. It would be interesting to read posts from people with similar job interests as myself.


while thats all well and good, youre comparing an aspect of a game to an entire game. whereas the main FF14 forum is filled with anything from class discussions, to world discussions, to release dates, what would class forums be filled with that would require their own forums?

not much. if you look at the FF11 class forums, there are mechanics discussions, item builds, party setups, optimal leveling, banter threads....the works. having a dedicated class forum for FF14 wouldnt be able to accomplish any of that because, well, we dont *know* any of that. we dont know what items, spells, party setups, or what have you will be optimal (or preferred, or most fun, or whatever).

in short, there just arent enough topics to fill up specific class forums. plus the game is barely into beta; how do we know a class wont be added, or worse yet, removed, by the time the game is launched?

so, for now, the general forum suffices. im sure if you want to start a "thaumaturge" thread people will be happy to post in it and speculate (i might join you, as thaumaturge and marauder seem to appeal to me the most). but class forums themselves are dedicated to getting down into the nitty-gritty aspects of a class, something that we just arent capable of doing right now.
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#36 Mar 17 2010 at 1:07 AM Rating: Decent
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We'll for sure need class forums when the game launches. Not only did those forums in many cases develop strong, helpful communities (WAR forums), they were also great tools for learning the nuances and details of each job (including number crunching, which yes, I'd say is important if you're looking to optimize your performance). Often at times too, the forums were places for people with shared passion for a job to discuss things that those who are not of said career don't give a flying **** about- for example, on the thief forums fane baselard augments.

As of yet, such forums aren't really needed, though.
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#37 Mar 17 2010 at 1:19 PM Rating: Good
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I have a question!

How are you guys thinking of managing the crafting disciplines as of right now (meaning, with the information you currently have).

It feels to me like each one should still get its own forum, if other jobs do, since they aren't meant to be side things like in other games. Considering battle strategy will be part of their class, even minimal, and that (presumably) they will each be fairly unique, it seems like it would be a good idea.

And, if you DO end up with separate forums, I'm assuming you wouldn't have a crafting forum at all?

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plus the game is barely into beta


Even worse, it's barely into closed ALPHA. Closed Beta comes later. And after that, we *might* see an open Beta.

Edited, Mar 17th 2010 3:21pm by idiggory
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#38 Mar 17 2010 at 2:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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We're not sure yet, it really depends just how complex the DotH and DotL classes are, which we can't determine until later this year.
#39 Mar 17 2010 at 2:47 PM Rating: Good
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Understood, thanks for the response.
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#40 Mar 18 2010 at 6:16 AM Rating: Decent
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Way too early. We have very little actual information, nothing that we DO know is set in stone. What we have is 90% speculation and 10% "as far as we know". It doesn't make any sense to me to create Forums that in all likelyhood would have to be completely remade once the game actually launches
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