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#1 Mar 14 2010 at 3:39 PM Rating: Decent
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- Can you give us anymore information on how the elements come into play in FFXIV?

Okada: In the world of FFXIV, there are 6 elements: Fire, Ice, Wind, Earth, Thunder and Water. They will all have their characteristics as well, such as Water being strong against Fire, but weak against Thunder.

Iwao: Both players and enemies will be affected by their affinity with the elements. Also, there exist forces aligned to these 6 elements called "Star Poles" and "Spirit Poles." They are like the magnetic poles of our Earth, attracting different energies.

[Elmer Point: The poles are called 星極 (sei-kyoku) and 霊極 (rei-kyoku). The first means Star Pole and second means Spirit Pole. As Iwao said, "pole" refers to a magnetic pole, such as the North and South poles of Earth. These sound like Protocrystals, in that they serve as focus points for the energy of a particular element. The official names will most likely be different, though.]



- What kind of effect will these elements have on the player?

Okada: Each player will have their own strengths and weaknesses regarding each element. For example, one person could be particularly strong against Fire.


From: http://ffxiv.zam.com/story.html?story=21825


Who else thinks that this may cause certain players become rather ineffective in some battles if they have a certain elemental affinity? I personally find that it is a good idea but if implemented wrongly can cause a drastic decrease in the usability of some people and especially if endgame revolves around a few major fights, then people with water specialization may take less damage but also deal less against water type bosses. This would benefit Tanks but hinder DD. Thoughts?
#2 Mar 14 2010 at 4:10 PM Rating: Decent
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It depends on how prominent a role these elemental affinities will be and how balanced monsters (and NMs) of each element are in every level range.

Only time will tell.

But to be honest, I like this and would rather take the risk. It could always be balanced later on. I'm always up for potentially more versatile characters than cookie cutters. I hate seeing Thundaga 3 as the end-all-be-all spell to cast on anything not lightning- or earth-based. They will need to do very fine balancing, though.
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#3 Mar 14 2010 at 4:13 PM Rating: Good
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There are also abilities to neutralize an enemy's elemental affinity so that all elements are equally effective against it.

But I doubt this possibility of elemental favorability has slipped SE's mind.
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#4 Mar 14 2010 at 4:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeh I agree is needs alot of thought put into it. But say it loses approx 5% of damage from a DD (which also means one element is gaining 5%), would you rather specialize of go average out on all?
#5 Mar 14 2010 at 4:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Who else thinks that this may cause certain players become rather ineffective in some battles if they have a certain elemental affinity? I personally find that it is a good idea but if implemented wrongly can cause a drastic decrease in the usability of some people and especially if endgame revolves around a few major fights, then people with water specialization may take less damage but also deal less against water type bosses. This would benefit Tanks but hinder DD. Thoughts?
You mean like every other FF? There have always been weaknesses and strengths in final fantasy, including FFXI. Just the way it works. People will figure it out...
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#6 Mar 14 2010 at 4:16 PM Rating: Good
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I am a little worried about it too. To me it all comes down to just how much of an effect it has. If its just enough to give specializers a little boost in defense or offense, then no big deal. However, If not specializing means that you could be severely crippled because your elemental affinity is too low to even make a dent in an endgame boss, then that is broken. If this were the case, then we go from FFXI with certain jobs being left out to FFXIV with certain elemental affinities being left out.

The biggest concern for me would be the effectiveness of spells , weapon skills, and abilities when going up against high level enemies or bosses. Lets say you want to silence a Boss, but silence is wind based. Lets also suppose that said Boss is elementally neutral to wind. So the fact that it is a wind based spell makes no difference to the monster one way or the other. However, what if the effectiveness of the spell is determined by your affinity for wind? Well, if you have a healthy affinity towards all elements, and are not a master of wind, then Silence might not stick at all.

There is a difference between wanting to specialize for a little "umph" and individuality, and needing to specialize in order to even be successful at a particular skill/spell. Another important question is do all spells/abillities have an element attached to them or are some not attached to an element? If the answer is yes, then perhaps even an ability like Gladiator's provoke ability might not work well to gain hate unless you specialized in its element. That could make things interesting if no matter what a Gladiator did his provoke just would not work, because its affinity was just too low or the mob was strong to that abilities element. Anyways, this is just speculation until we really know how it will all work.
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#7 Mar 14 2010 at 4:18 PM Rating: Decent
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I think I read that Thuamaturge can change the elemental affinity to favour surrounding team players much like a Scholar can in FF11, they most likely have the ability to make mobs more suspectible to the oppisite class of magic also.
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#8 Mar 14 2010 at 4:18 PM Rating: Decent
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I think the whole affinity thing will be kind of school, it further differentiates classes from eachother, say one lancer from another. I plan on using either Wind or Water/Ice with my Lancer. The only thing that really worries me is being rejected from parties during certain boss fights; since I would be weak or ineffective to a boss thats the opposite of wind. I guess though you could just make yourself balanced though. One of the interviews said you could raise your affinity in all elements as a conjurer, but you wouldn't be specialized in one element.

Overall, I'm sure it will work out, they always talk about how you can switch classes freely in this game. Could just switch to something that is less dependent on your affinity.
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#9 Mar 14 2010 at 4:20 PM Rating: Decent
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I think it will come down to just how well the system is balanced. Its possible that this "affinity" will be just like every other mmo where it could be in the form of resist or bonus damage gear. This is also one aspect that is very overlooked in most mmo's save for some end game content in which case we just fill in slots with gear. The question is just how much will this affect players and mobs. At the time we just do not know enough about it but I kinda think its not gonna be a key factor.

There also seems to be a sub-section much like the elements. By this Im speaking of the mention in a few interviews of "Gold based mobs" While not directly related to the main elements, it seems to me mobs will also be broken down into these groups as well as the standard fire, water, earth, etc.. Hopefully they do not make things too complex.

If this is not gear based where we just buy various elemental equipment, I can see people who decide to specialize in a certain element, being passed over because they for lack of a better term, "are not as effective" against certain HNM's Another concern I have is if we specialize in say Water, Just how much more damage do we take from Thunder? Depending how much of a factor it is would mean taking much more damage from various mobs we encounter as well. I remember in FFXI using different types of spells made a very noticeable increase. It could make healing an issue in a game where we need to conserve our mp.
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#10 Mar 14 2010 at 4:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Who else thinks that this may cause certain players become rather ineffective in some battles if they have a certain elemental affinity? I personally find that it is a good idea but if implemented wrongly can cause a drastic decrease in the usability of some people and especially if endgame revolves around a few major fights, then people with water specialization may take less damage but also deal less against water type bosses. This would benefit Tanks but hinder DD. Thoughts?


It really depends if they base the game difficulty around min/maxers. If not, then even in worst case scenario, it should only be a moderate disadvantage. I know that either conjurer or Thaumaturge(I think the latter) has an abilty that can balance out an enemies elemental affinities, I wouldn't be surprised if they also had one that does the same to the player.
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#11 Mar 14 2010 at 4:31 PM Rating: Decent
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I know that it is still early to talk about it and that SE will have given it much thought but there will always be that moment or fight where people will just find that X needs to be used and Y is just worthless. It is just worrisome that people may be ostracised for picking an element that they thought was cool.

This is doubly so when you combine this with weapons. Say you use a piercing weapon against a skeleton, you are already dealing less. Combine this with an ice (or dark) element and you are gone. Yes you can change weapons but the point is there will be numerous factors that will cause an element to have a major impact upon your usability.
#12 Mar 14 2010 at 5:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Feyted wrote:
I personally find that it is a good idea but if implemented wrongly can cause a drastic decrease in the usability of some people and especially if endgame revolves around a few major fights, then people with water specialization may take less damage but also deal less against water type bosses. This would benefit Tanks but hinder DD. Thoughts?


Honestly, I think people are freaking out over nothing. Just because someone exceeds in a certain element does not imply that they will be weak against enemies who also exceed in that element. It simply means they will not have an advantage as opposed to someone who spent more time developing the opposite element. Basically, I think specializing in an element will ONLY be a positive thing to make things more interesting for our characters. If you go with water, you'll have an advantage over other DD against certain enemies, but that doesn't mean you'll be weaker than other DD against water-type bosses. You just wouldn't use water-based spells/attacks like every other DD just like how in FFXI you wouldn't use Thundaga 3 on a lightning-based mob. Specializing in an element will most likely NOT mean that all of your attacks are based entirely on this element. That being said, hopefully the enemies ingame are evenly distributed throughout the elemental spectrum. This should be the real concern. I'm sure SE has taken this deeply into consideration with the endgame bosses. I'd also be willing to bet you can change your elemental aim in the game if you want to.
#13 Mar 14 2010 at 5:18 PM Rating: Good
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There is nothing to say that boss and HNM mobs will be weak to any element either, wouldn't surprise me if many turn out to be neutral.
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#14 Mar 14 2010 at 5:38 PM Rating: Decent
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There is nothing to say that boss and HNM mobs will be weak to any element either, wouldn't surprise me if many turn out to be neutral.
@_@ Like every other FF? I'd be surprised if any of the people freaking out about this have even played another Final Fantasy.

People: You do realize there were weaknesses in FFXI, right?
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and I will put my best foot forward.
and I'll thank god I made it out of there
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#15 Mar 14 2010 at 6:03 PM Rating: Decent
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TheShadowWalker wrote:
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There is nothing to say that boss and HNM mobs will be weak to any element either, wouldn't surprise me if many turn out to be neutral.
@_@ Like every other FF? I'd be surprised if any of the people freaking out about this have even played another Final Fantasy.

People: You do realize there were weaknesses in FFXI, right?


The same weaknesses that make us spam Blizzard and Thunder no matter what?

Well I hope they put some more effort into it this time.
#16 Mar 14 2010 at 6:27 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't think it's going to make enough of a difference to not get picked, however, it may make enough difference for someone else to get picked over you.

I do see...
"Our party leader asked two Lancers and you both responded, we only have room for one of you. What's your element? Oh really? I'm sorry _________ is fire based, and the other guy is a water element."

I don't see...
"Ok, we have everyone except a good DD, make sure you only get someone who is wind based."
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#17 Mar 14 2010 at 6:29 PM Rating: Decent
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There were also resistances but people who DD generally had weapons without an affinity and WS were mainly non-elemental as well. There was the odd elemental ones but seriously, who used them except on elementals...
#18 Mar 14 2010 at 8:45 PM Rating: Good
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I get the feeling we won't be locked into a particular affinity if we choose one. We will probably have some way to change it to adapt to different situations. Note that we'll be able to take a balanced approach if we choose, which also leads me to believe we could specialize in two opposing elements, instead of just maxing out one. Overall, I trust the devs to design this in a way that people won't be isolated or rejected just because they chose a particular elemental affinity.
#19 Mar 14 2010 at 8:48 PM Rating: Decent
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I think it's going to be sorta like, every affinity starts at 13(just a random number for example), and every level we get 4 points(why not?) to allocate to them as we see fit.
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#20 Mar 14 2010 at 9:59 PM Rating: Good
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I'm going to train in the seventh element.

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The seventh element is you!
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#21 Mar 15 2010 at 5:58 AM Rating: Decent
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I think it's going to be sorta like, every affinity starts at 13(just a random number for example), and every level we get 4 points(why not?) to allocate to them as we see fit.


If this is the case, then I hope they allow people to reset their affinity as I can imagine a lot of people ******** their characters up.
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#22 Mar 15 2010 at 1:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Diakar wrote:
Quote:
I think it's going to be sorta like, every affinity starts at 13(just a random number for example), and every level we get 4 points(why not?) to allocate to them as we see fit.


If this is the case, then I hope they allow people to reset their affinity as I can imagine a lot of people ******** their characters up.



If you can reset it, then there must be some sort of cost or cooldown so people don't min/max against everything.
#23 Mar 15 2010 at 1:56 PM Rating: Decent
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As long as the cooldown isn't JP midnight.... I hate that phrase!
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#24 Mar 15 2010 at 2:28 PM Rating: Decent
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I dislike elemental systems in most RPGs, because they often become a strategic trap. They seem like they offer greater depth of game play when far too often they reduce it. The problem is that mobs are often only one type of elemental (such as fire flans). Playing rock paper scissors against an opponent who can only play scissors isn't strategic, it's just a test to see if you have a pulse.
Bluefirefly wrote:
Honestly, I think people are freaking out over nothing. Just because someone exceeds in a certain element does not imply that they will be weak against enemies who also exceed in that element. It simply means they will not have an advantage as opposed to someone who spent more time developing the opposite element. Basically, I think specializing in an element will ONLY be a positive thing to make things more interesting for our characters.

It can't only be an advantage, because there is opportunity cost. It doesn't matter if as a fire type you're not any weaker against water than an earth type for example, because lightning types will still be stronger. If an encounter or boss is primarily water type, then people are still going to try to form groups of only lightning types to fight against it; everyone else becomes a last resort.

The two most likely situations in FFXI are that either elemental weaknesses/strengths are fairly minor--so the system might as well not exist--or that they are fairly significant in which case we encounter the problem where players try to create parties of those only strong against the enemy they know they're going to face, and every else is second pickings.

What is far less likely, but would make the game far more interesting, is if mobs rotate their elements or have moments of elemental weaknesses. If a crab uses a water type attack he might can a momentary weakness to lightning based attacks, where lightning element people can opportunistically exploit their advantage, but a little while later the crab may use a earth based attack which would open up opportunities for wind elemental people. In the same fight multiple elemental affinities have a chance to shine, instead of it always being the same one. Because of this there would be a good reason to bring a diverse group of people to a fight.

Edited, Mar 15th 2010 2:31pm by Allegory
#25 Mar 15 2010 at 6:03 PM Rating: Decent
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What is far less likely, but would make the game far more interesting, is if mobs rotate their elements or have moments of elemental weaknesses. If a crab uses a water type attack he might can a momentary weakness to lightning based attacks, where lightning element people can opportunistically exploit their advantage, but a little while later the crab may use a earth based attack which would open up opportunities for wind elemental people. In the same fight multiple elemental affinities have a chance to shine, instead of it always being the same one. Because of this there would be a good reason to bring a diverse group of people to a fight.


Wow! I agree on all your points. Less likely, check. Far more interesting, check. Good reason to bring a variety of different elemental players, check.

Doing something like that would also be a great reason for specific elements to not be tossed to the side and it would allow everyone to use whichever they prefer. It would suck if you level up wind for instance, and in the later half of the game it's completely useless, or worse yet, it would make YOU more liable.
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#26 Mar 15 2010 at 6:09 PM Rating: Decent
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I agree that there should be elemental phases during fights but not during normal enemies because it wouldn't make too much sense. I think it should be included in more event based battles and those which require more planning. Against every day mobs, I reckon it should either be almost negligible or there are so many mobs of different types in one area that there is no reason for a party to spec into 1 element only.

Edited, Mar 16th 2010 12:16am by Feyted
#27 Mar 15 2010 at 6:31 PM Rating: Decent
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It sounds like there are two separate questions being addressed here:

1 - How much impact will this mechanic have in application - which to me is something like, can it singlehandedly make or break an encounter - which most sound to be arguing 'no' it won't be that significant

And 2 - More importantly - how will this mechanic affect player behavior, such as prioritization of invites - which i'd think the answer would be very much so.

I would seem the inherent "unfairness" that would arise from those who get to end game to find they just happened to pick the most useless element would be enough to demand some way to "respec" your affinity. Maybe i'm making too many assumptions here..
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#28 Mar 15 2010 at 6:37 PM Rating: Decent
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What is far less likely, but would make the game far more interesting, is if mobs rotate their elements or have moments of elemental weaknesses. If a crab uses a water type attack he might can a momentary weakness to lightning based attacks, where lightning element people can opportunistically exploit their advantage, but a little while later the crab may use a earth based attack which would open up opportunities for wind elemental people. In the same fight multiple elemental affinities have a chance to shine, instead of it always being the same one. Because of this there would be a good reason to bring a diverse group of people to a fight.


You actually made me think of the fight against Magus in CT. That was a fun fight and he did cycle through all the elements in that exact way by casting that elemental spell.
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