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Accentuate the Positve!Follow

#1 Mar 17 2010 at 8:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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I was originally going to respond to some of the posts that this is concerning, but I’ll just make a new topic.

-The top 10 things you don’t want to do in 14
-Boring things
-What's the deal...


Final Fantasy is one of the only game franchises that focus on friendship, positivity, and overcoming adversity. Yet, certain posts I see come from a negative mindset. Final Fantasy 14 looks amazing and it seems like they learned a lot about what worked and didn’t work from 11, so I see no reason to speak or think negatively about a game not even out yet.

If you sit around and worry, that helps any one how? If you want certain things in the game, then let's get to writing Square. Make petitions and think in happy happy joy joy thoughts. Positive breeds positive and this is a game.


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#2 Mar 17 2010 at 9:06 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah. I've noticed the same thing. A lot of people have been focusing on announcements they don't like (or even things that haven't been announced, and they are just ******** about it for no reason).

I get it at all. With excitement comes the fear that it won't be as good as you imagine.

But this is common on game forums this early. People don't have a lot of information, so they judge what they have been told against something they know (most common on this board is XI and WoW).

So, you hear that X will be the case. Even though it will likely turn out to be new and original, you gauge it against something else.

For instance, the lack of auto-attack. You hear that and, not knowing how the combat will actually work specifically, you imagine it in terms of something else--maybe you picture it like XI, but you have to press a button for each swing. Does that sound fun? No, so you worry.

But the chances that that is ACTUALLY what the game will be like are slim.

I'm trying to be positive overall, since I have such limited knowledge. And I know it's going to be unique, so I don't want to make comparisons.
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#3 Mar 17 2010 at 9:59 AM Rating: Decent
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That's what I love about the Final Fantasy series. The boring things you don't have to do. And in an MMORPG setting that's even more things that you don't have to do. You get so much freedom. Let's say I don't want to do any of the storyline, I don't want to craft, I don't want to do anything but endgame. Then that's it, endgame it is.
#4 Mar 17 2010 at 10:04 AM Rating: Decent
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idiggory wrote:
I'm trying to be positive overall


This is also what I'm doing. When something is announced, I generally try to see that as a building block and think about the -potential- it can grow into...instead of thinking that it is something already final.

However, there still are a couple things that irk me. One is that they've implied that the ideal party is 6-8 players. I was hoping of a 3-5 player ideal party. Thank god Archer will be a solo friendly class.

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#5 Mar 17 2010 at 10:19 AM Rating: Decent
I agree with OP.

Some people don't like change;, I on the other hand love it. All info out now shows FFXIV will be a very unique MMORPG. You can't tell what it's going to be like until you play it.

If Square-Enix succeeds in making FFXIV a fun and entertaining game, then I'll play it for a very long time.

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#6 Mar 17 2010 at 10:51 AM Rating: Good
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However, there still are a couple things that irk me. One is that they've implied that the ideal party is 6-8 players.


I don't think you have to worry. It seems like content in XIV isn't going to be like other games--there isn't going to be a "system" to parties like XI or WoW has (6/5 players, 1 tank, 1 healer, 3 DpS [and 1 support]).

I'm sure many guildleves will take 3-5 players. More difficult ones will take 6-8. Some guildleves can be soloed or duo-ed.

I wouldn't worry. From what I can tell, we are looking at far more diverse levels of content than other games on the market now provide. Look at WoW--you basically have 3 options--5, 10 or 25 people. You CAN do the dungeons/raids with fewer people, once you are all geared, but in the beginning you generally need that number.

I think the 6-8 member parties are meant to be the hardest low-scale battles. More than that and you are probably going to be doing the larget ones.

Especially because, well, there are only 7 combat jobs currently released. It would be weird to require players to form parties.

But there is one big pro to larger parties--people are more likely to bring crafters/gatherers with them. If you could only have 5 people, you would need to sacrifice DpS to include them. Now you can get a bunch of DpS, and bring along 1 or 2 market jobs.
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#7 Mar 17 2010 at 11:31 AM Rating: Default
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I agree with OP.

Some people don't like change;, I on the other hand love it. All info out now shows FFXIV will be a very unique MMORPG. You can't tell what it's going to be like until you play it.

If Square-Enix succeeds in making FFXIV a fun and entertaining game, then I'll play it for a very long time.


For me, if FFXIV is a bad game I'll still play it for the next 5 to 7 years to come. Lately Square Enix has been making terrible Final Fantasy games. Final Fantasy XII was terrible. Final Fantasy XIII wasn't much better, and Final Fantasy XIV is looking great...

Really hoping they'll turn it around, but again, if they don't, I don't mind at all. Will still play it for the duration of my MMO time.
#8 Mar 17 2010 at 3:29 PM Rating: Decent
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I believe I fall into the category of one of the negative nancies we've seen on the forum. I don't know about the others, but I'm just tired of the hype. I've played a lot of MMORPGs and I've seen a lot of launches, successful and less so. It's always the same fervor among fans.

I see many others as wanting to play FFXIV, and hoping it's a good game. The differences between us are that I want to play a good game, and I hope that is FFXIV.
#9 Mar 17 2010 at 5:28 PM Rating: Decent
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The way I see it all SE has to do to make FFXIV great is to make it better than FFXI. As long as this is the case I'll be thrilled. It's not hard either. FFXI has dated graphics, poor framerate performance, cumbersome battle mechanics, permanent balance issues, boring exp grind gameplay, an economy unfriendly to crafting, tons of useless pieces of equipment and a very messy mission and quest system.

SE has put a lot of band-aids on FFXI over the years. A new game built from the ground up is what's really needed to fix the many flaws present in FFXI. So I'm very optimistic about FFXIV.

Edited, Mar 17th 2010 7:29pm by TauuOfSiren
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#10 Mar 18 2010 at 12:40 AM Rating: Decent
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For me, if FFXIV is a bad game I'll still play it for the next 5 to 7 years to come. Lately Square Enix has been making terrible Final Fantasy games. Final Fantasy XII was terrible. Final Fantasy XIII wasn't much better, and Final Fantasy XIV is looking great...

Really hoping they'll turn it around, but again, if they don't, I don't mind at all. Will still play it for the duration of my MMO time.


Speak for yourself. FFXII and FFXIII are pretty **** good games but lately it seems people expectations are just too much. Plus, how are you into MMOs and you didn't like FFXII? it doesn't make sense to me since that game was virtually an offline MMO.
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#11 Mar 18 2010 at 12:53 AM Rating: Decent
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FF12's gameplay wasn't engaging enough to me, but the art direction, story and setting was more than perfect. On the other hand, I found FF13's setting problematic. I had trouble suspending my disbelief in regards to FF13, and felt that the way the world was designed just was meant to facilitate an over-the-top presentation that just didn't give it any way to be taken seriously.

I personally think FF14 will be better than most of the FF's that have been released in the last five or six years.
#12 Mar 18 2010 at 3:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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If you sit around and worry, that helps any one how? If you want certain things in the game, then let's get to writing Square. Make petitions and think in happy happy joy joy thoughts. Positive breeds positive and this is a game.


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#13 Mar 18 2010 at 3:26 AM Rating: Default
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I just wonder if they are able to get WoW players over to ffxiv.
If you look at all online players WoW has the most players at the moment and while in Asia ff series are huge in europe and even in the US it isn't as big as it is in Asia.

So if they want to have success in europe and US they need to have things to draw players from WoW.
#14 Mar 18 2010 at 3:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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I was originally going to respond to some of the posts that this is concerning, but I’ll just make a new topic.

-The top 10 things you don’t want to do in 14
-Boring things
-What's the deal...


Fair enough.

Quote:
Final Fantasy is one of the only game franchises that focus on friendship, positivity, and overcoming adversity. Yet, certain posts I see come from a negative mindset. Final Fantasy 14 looks amazing and it seems like they learned a lot about what worked and didn’t work from 11, so I see no reason to speak or think negatively about a game not even out yet.


Blanket statements like this generally don't have much merit. No, FF is not the only game around that focuses on those things. I'll admit, FFXI does tend to have a much better community than most games do. This, I think, was mostly due to the fact that you had to know people to get very far into the game.

As for the negativity: it has its place. If we see problems (real or not at this point), we have a HUGE opportunity to let SE know about them BEFORE the game gets released. Constructive criticism should be welcomed. Admittedly, since we know very little about the game, its hard to find out what is a problem and what isn't.

Quote:
If you sit around and worry, that helps any one how? If you want certain things in the game, then let's get to writing Square. Make petitions and think in happy happy joy joy thoughts. Positive breeds positive and this is a game.


Being positive about things has its uses, sure. But to put on blinders and pretend FF14 will be the best game ever and that there won't be any problems is setting you up for a huge letdown. Instead, I suggest cautious optimism with a healthy does of pragmatism tossed in.
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#15 Mar 18 2010 at 6:50 AM Rating: Default
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#16 Mar 18 2010 at 7:58 AM Rating: Decent
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I just wonder if they are able to get WoW players over to ffxiv.
If you look at all online players WoW has the most players at the moment and while in Asia ff series are huge in europe and even in the US it isn't as big as it is in Asia.

So if they want to have success in europe and US they need to have things to draw players from WoW.


They will get me, but I'm not a loyal WoW player. Graphics in WoW are aweful and hardly improved since initial release. There are too many quests and no indication which ones relate to the story. Story is weak too. However, gameplay in WoW is very polished; it's easy to control your character and camera.

We already know FFXIV will have superior graphics and story. If gameplay is just as good or better then WoW there will be a lot of non loyal WoW players like myself leaving WoW for FFXIV.

My only worry is that there will be console awkwardness in the pc version like FFXI.
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#17 Mar 18 2010 at 8:59 AM Rating: Decent
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SolidMack wrote:
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For me, if FFXIV is a bad game I'll still play it for the next 5 to 7 years to come. Lately Square Enix has been making terrible Final Fantasy games. Final Fantasy XII was terrible. Final Fantasy XIII wasn't much better, and Final Fantasy XIV is looking great...

Really hoping they'll turn it around, but again, if they don't, I don't mind at all. Will still play it for the duration of my MMO time.


Speak for yourself. FFXII and FFXIII are pretty **** good games but lately it seems people expectations are just too much. Plus, how are you into MMOs and you didn't like FFXII? it doesn't make sense to me since that game was virtually an offline MMO.


Absolutely agree, while I can't speak much for 13 since I haven't played it, I VERY much enjoy 12. I know 12's battle system is something you either love or hate and I really liked it /shrug.
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#18 Mar 18 2010 at 12:29 PM Rating: Good
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Caia wrote:
retort


I agree with the devil's advocate side of the issue here. While undoubtedly there isn't any merit to hand-wringing, "the sky is falling" sort of threads, you have to be open to some negativity. Caia summed it up pretty well; I'll only add that it's not just about criticism that could be leveled directly at SE, but that there's also merit to discussion solely within the ZAM community about issues that we feel might arise. Things like that help us here understand all sides of issues relating to the game, to gain an enhanced perspective. It may dampen the mood a bit but it's an inherently healthy thing to do, especially when contrasted with stubborn optimism.

Edited, Mar 18th 2010 2:30pm by Eske
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#19 Mar 18 2010 at 2:43 PM Rating: Good
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Sometimes you have to be negative to make your voice heard. Positive discussion is fine, but I much prefer constructive discussion. It's true, the negative threads do get a bit tiresome, but I don't think there's any denying that everyone here is excited for FFXIV. The biggest problem is when discussions turn negative because of close-mindedness, poor communication, personal attacks, and wild speculation. Don't forget that optimists are just as prone to poor judgment and being mistaken as pessimists.

Sometimes it does seem like certain people are quick to point out why they don't like XYZ, and they really don't have any solid reasoning to back it up. But that's when the rational, logical people come in and try to balance things out. Any thread, positive or negative, is a good thread if it promotes critical thinking and sound arguments. And if it doesn't, enjoy your Sub-Default.

SolidMack wrote:
Plus, how are you into MMOs and you didn't like FFXII? it doesn't make sense to me since that game was virtually an offline MMO.

How are you into <insert genre here> if you didn't like <insert single example of aforementioned genre here>? Am I not into MMOs because I don't like the flavor-of-the-month F2P Korean MMO? Am I not into FPSes because I don't like Halo? Am I not into racing games because I didn't like Big Rigs?

Edited, Mar 18th 2010 4:51pm by TraumaFox
#20 Mar 18 2010 at 5:46 PM Rating: Decent
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Good points and counterpoints every one. I never intended to mean that blind optimism is the way to be. Just that, unwarranted worry and negativity is really a drag and doesn't get things done. Especially with some thing we are all excited for.

I was thinking more towards critical positivity.
#21 Mar 18 2010 at 5:52 PM Rating: Decent
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So one plus to me about this game is the possibility of going through quest and missions without leveling up a combat class. I spent way to much time in FFXI leveling up and didn't even make it to 75 after 5 years :(. Not to mention I barely completed basically none of the story line in the game. It was just too hard and time consuming, but I enjoyed it enough to stay on. Hopefully, the FFXIV will be friendlier to players like me...
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#22 Mar 23 2010 at 7:41 PM Rating: Good
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SolidMack wrote:
Quote:

For me, if FFXIV is a bad game I'll still play it for the next 5 to 7 years to come. Lately Square Enix has been making terrible Final Fantasy games. Final Fantasy XII was terrible. Final Fantasy XIII wasn't much better, and Final Fantasy XIV is looking great...

Really hoping they'll turn it around, but again, if they don't, I don't mind at all. Will still play it for the duration of my MMO time.


Speak for yourself. FFXII and FFXIII are pretty **** good games but lately it seems people expectations are just too much. Plus, how are you into MMOs and you didn't like FFXII? it doesn't make sense to me since that game was virtually an offline MMO.

I would argue that XII had almost nothing in common with MMOs except some small cosmetic things that simply remind players of MMOs. Everything in the game was present in at least one single-player RPG before MMOs became even remotely prolific or even existed, and many were in previous Final Fantasy games. Name one thing about the game that is like "an offline MMO" and I'll give you a game that had that feature long before MMOs commonly did. If you turn off gambits, set the game to Wait mode, and control everyone's actions individually it plays almost exactly like an older FF game without a separate battle screen.

And I haven't seen a whole lot of negativity about XIII as a game exactly, more just from people who are upset with it abandoning everything but chocobos and a Blizzaga spell from the rest of the series. Completely different battle system, nothing to do but fight and open treasure boxes (spheres actually, not even that's the same) in virtually every area of the game, no ability to backtrack until the final areas, no towns or NPCs to interact with in any meaningful way, and no side quests except a bunch of palette-swapped enemy hunts and a single robot that gives you stuff. None of that makes a bad game, but none of it was really like the first twelve games in the series either.

Sorry for being off the topic here. As far as that goes, I'm somewhere in the middle. Excited for a new start as I am with all MMO launches, somewhat aided by the fact that it's being developed by people who made the only MMO I stuck with for several years. Some caution has to be taken though, especially given the lackluster updates to XI as of late, as well as the skepticism we've all conditioned ourselves with to avoid disappointment.

When someone sees something like the only mage class that's been announced to have a classic damage spell (Fire) is also the only mage class that's been announced to have a classic healing spell (Cure), if that person is used to getting their hopes up and then being disappointed with other MMOs and with FFXI in particular (again, because it's the same people behind it) then it's only natural that they worry that there will be no DD mage that casts Fire and Thunder because they'll be forced into healing. That may not be realistic considering the limited amount of information we have at this point, but it is understandable.

This post came out sounding really negative...but I really am excited about XIV. I don't even normally stop in to post opinions instead of translation factoids, so that should say something for my excitement.

Edited, Mar 23rd 2010 6:42pm by TheMoreYouKnow
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#23 Mar 23 2010 at 8:12 PM Rating: Decent
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I would argue that XII had almost nothing in common with MMOs except some small cosmetic things that simply remind players of MMOs. Everything in the game was present in at least one single-player RPG before MMOs became even remotely prolific or even existed, and many were in previous Final Fantasy games. Name one thing about the game that is like "an offline MMO" and I'll give you a game that had that feature long before MMOs commonly did.


Many players observed that FFXII was like an offline MMO, myself included. It just is.

I'm sure you could name aspects of the games with similar features before MMOs commonly had them, which would be completely meaningless. What defines a game is the SUM of its parts. Just because you can pick and choose elements from other games of a different genre doesn't mean that the game in question comes from that genre.

Fact is, that it shares MANY elements from MMOs both online and offline. Whether it shares one element from old school RPG X and another from RPG Y amounts to squat.

Calling it an offline MMO isn't an insult, either.
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#24 Mar 23 2010 at 8:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kachi wrote:
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I would argue that XII had almost nothing in common with MMOs except some small cosmetic things that simply remind players of MMOs. Everything in the game was present in at least one single-player RPG before MMOs became even remotely prolific or even existed, and many were in previous Final Fantasy games. Name one thing about the game that is like "an offline MMO" and I'll give you a game that had that feature long before MMOs commonly did.


Many players observed that FFXII was like an offline MMO, myself included. It just is.

I'm sure you could name aspects of the games with similar features before MMOs commonly had them, which would be completely meaningless. What defines a game is the SUM of its parts. Just because you can pick and choose elements from other games of a different genre doesn't mean that the game in question comes from that genre.

Fact is, that it shares MANY elements from MMOs both online and offline. Whether it shares one element from old school RPG X and another from RPG Y amounts to squat.

Calling it an offline MMO isn't an insult, either.

Forgive me if I don't find "it just is" a compelling argument.

Ignoring the fact that the only thing that actually makes an MMO is the fact that it's a bunch of people playing the game online in the same world and without that nothing can be one, I fail to see the connections so many people are drawing here.

The combat is menu-driven, which I've only really seen in one MMO, FFXI, and most people don't use the menu there anyway. There is no persistent log of damage or dialog, only more than one line of information shown at a time, which is common in a lot of other games. Things such as weather and enemy appearance do not use any sort of artificial or actual time table to occur, only the entering and exiting of areas. The game uses the ATB system found in most FF games since it was introduced and not used in the only one that's an MMO. You either play as all the characters or you set up their AIs in a very specific IF-THEN manner which is hardly like playing only one character while other people control others. Equipment and setup (the license board) are nothing like any MMO and everything like typical FF games or Japanese console RPGs in general. All the hidden areas and backtracking exploration is entirely console RPG styled as well.

Sometimes it seems like everyone who says that it's an "offline MMO" have only played Japanese console RPGs and MMOs, so getting in fights that don't take place in a separate screen/system "feels" like an MMO to them. I know that's probably not the case, but it just doesn't make any sense to me. I'm not saying it's an insult either - I enjoy both MMOs and single-player RPGs a lot. I just don't see where people come from saying that XII is so much like an MMO and suggesting it to people who play MMOs or saying people who don't like MMOs should steer clear.
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