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A Black MarketFollow

#1 Mar 19 2010 at 11:57 PM Rating: Decent
549 posts
I don't know what FFXIV is going to have in place of the Auction house. I was thinking though that it would be kinda cool for there two be two systems, one backed by the city-states, and then a black market.

I don't really know what the differences or bonus' would be of using either. Mostly just doing this to kick up discussion.

Thoughts? Ideas?
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#2 Mar 20 2010 at 12:11 AM Rating: Good
691 posts
I can definitely think of some fascinating mechanics for a black and white market system; but honestly I find it about as likely as seeing them introduce six new races at this point. I'm not sure what it is that seems so unlikely about it, since I can see a lot of very cool things that could be done with the idea if played with enough.... It just doesn't seem to fit with SE's MO.

For the sake of wasting time and speculation however....

Something really cool that could be done with this is have it emulate the real black and white markets. You can buy and sell things on the white market, but due to the tariffs and taxes, the prices would be marginally higher than the black market. Also, the black market would have things that could not be found on the white market (read as r/ex gear). To mix things up though, the black market would have to introduce risk. I would make it so that instead of putting items up and selling them as is, you can put things up as an item of your choosing. What I mean by this is that if you have a Bee Spatha -1, you could sell it on the black market as an Excalibur for 1k (to use FFXI examples and inflation values) and if anyone was silly enough to believe you they would get burned by it. Of course, to make it fair, you would have to add some form of speculation skill (to tell if the item is really what the seller claims it is). I could see this being an offshoot from, say, DoH classes.

Anyway, as I said, I find the idea pretty much totally unlikely, but it's a fun little exercise to think of how you could play with it a bit and come up with some interesting mechanics.
#3 Mar 20 2010 at 12:29 AM Rating: Decent
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VayMasters wrote:
Thoughts? Ideas?

Well usually the idea comes first and the name comes later rather than the reverse :)

I honestly can't think of an idea that both isn't redundant with the AH and is highly functional.
#4 Mar 20 2010 at 12:39 AM Rating: Decent
92 posts
Chances are slim that they will actually install a black market system.

However, from what I know of economics, chances are the players will create a system and it will almost be a black market at that point.

Without an AH, people will be looking for a way to pawn off gear instead of just selling it for said price through a bazaar type thing.

I can see this creating a demand for an AH of a sort which will be probably be carried out by a group of players or most likely RMTs. Reliance on this kind of thing would be a risky venture because you have to rely on a player instead of a program in the system.

Honestly, the rewards would be good enough that I would almost consider forming a group to try to make a "black market" of a sort.(Hopefully cutting RMTs out of the market.) That is assuming it would not break any of SE's rules which wouldn't be too hard.

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#5 Mar 20 2010 at 12:48 AM Rating: Default
549 posts
Which is exactly why I didn't post one myself.
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#6 Mar 20 2010 at 12:52 AM Rating: Decent
492 posts
Dont think the black market would actually be a winner if everybody could disguise an item to be something else before sale, it would surely die before it was brought to light.

I suppose though the black market could be like FFXI appraised Items before you get them appraised. maybe you could come accross some shady wandering NPC's wearing long macs and a face scalf, under certain conditions, who would buy items from you cheap when he has reached another certain condition would have stuff to sell (i.e "??? Boots") but again under certain conditions would have and actual decent pair of boots but the oods would be like 1/1000000 or something stupid of obtaining them.

Quite possibly this could happen in a town, on the market square. This NPC will arrive shouting something like "come one, come all, great items for affordable prices", a gathering of adventures would then bid with each other on certain items haggling in some way, to maybe obtain an item worth all the fuss.

Everyone who buys an item will get some sort of crappy boot etc but one lucky guy may also get in their chat log;
"you find a rolled up piece of paper in the boots"
"obtained Key item : Merchants Note"

upon looking at the key item it could say something like "if your looking for a real bargain meet me at <insert random area name and location spot> when the suns at its lowest."

heading to that area between certain times would trigger a CS, allowing you to part with your boots and more gil for the oppertunity to receive something more satisfying, or then again maybe not!!! depending how evil SE would really be

to add some more depth of making it feel illegal you could also be followed by a patrol officer or something to that standards, in which could possibly render you an outlaw for a couple of days in a town, and scare off this NPC too who would also not go to that town too for a while????

far fetched i know but it is 6am so i'm allowed

Edited, Mar 20th 2010 2:59am by RyderDecree
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#7 Mar 20 2010 at 6:59 AM Rating: Good
11,064 posts
I wouldn't mind NPCs occasionally supplying items that haven't listed by players in a while. Say it's been a month since Fancy Jerkin +1 has been sold, game goes through the price history, averages out a cost (perhaps weighting toward lower end) and then lists it as per usual sales durations.

Otherwise, I could kind of see something similar to XI's guild orders. "Bring me X items, get Y points, and now and then Z might be available for you to buy with your points based on current world conditions." Z could be rare equipment, crafting goods, or maybe even just straight up cash. Though, such an NPC should wander from time to time and in no predictable manner. Where it shows could even determine its inventory, too... like having drops from NMs in the area.
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#8 Mar 20 2010 at 7:32 AM Rating: Decent
1,146 posts
Economy would be ruined if npc supply items that havent been listed in a long time.
That is what makes an item rare.

I would like to see more guild/linkshell trading even guilds could form an allience if certain materials are hard to get.
Maybe make an auction so that guildmember pay less then people outside the guild.
#9 Mar 20 2010 at 10:14 AM Rating: Decent
92 posts
I would also like to see crafting guilds form, however the one thing im afraid of is a few groups making an alliance and setting prices so low that no one else can keep up.


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#10 Mar 20 2010 at 10:54 AM Rating: Decent
144 posts
black market, aka bazaar
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#11 Mar 22 2010 at 8:41 PM Rating: Good
205 posts
This is what my idea of Market Place is like

Player A sells Sword to NPC get gils.
NPC will now have stockpile for swords.
Player B can now buy sword form NPC. (subjectable to stockpile)

Price of sword has a default start/min/max value. Price will move base on supply and demand over time. A Sale difference is in place, ex. u sell the sword for 800gil but to buy it u have to pay 1000gil.

*Max sell value = min buy value, thus u can't "cheat".

Broker Market (the auction house we all know from other MMO)

Player A give "Broker NPC" sword to sell at a certain price.
Wait for player to buy the sword at ur stated price.

Like usual there is a broker tax, ex. u sell the sword at 900 gil u have to pay maybe 45 gil tax to ask the NPC to sell it for u.

I forget the RL name of this type of auction. Black Market (risky market)

Player A give "Broker NPC" sword to sell at a starting price,
this starting price will drop everyday/period at a certain % till someone buys it. (or it hits 50% of the starting value, decay rate set by player)

This will mean once the price drop till a value that someone thinks is acceptable it will be brought, but if the buyer wait out too long someone else might beat him to it at a higher price. Ex. someone place "sword" at 1500gil u think its too expensive so u set a price @ 1000, but when the price drop to 1100 its brought by another person bidding higher.

Thus the sword can potenially sell at 1500 to 750 (player should not be able to take the item out of market once the 1st period start till the item hit bottem price) taxable but less den the broker market (tax base on starting value)

Additonally (edited)
>> Consumable, weapons and armor will likely be sold to the 1st market as u get the gil straight away and there will likely be no price war.

>> 2nd market will likely be for weapons and armor, maybe some bulk consumable.

>> 3rd market Rare equip/potenial high sell value, alot of risk involve. Set too high so that ur btm out value is acceptable to u will result in the item getting kick back to u too often. Price monoploy might exsist.

>> Potenially shorter market time for broker market, ex. like 5 days on the shelf compare to black market 10 days.

Edited, Mar 23rd 2010 3:02am by Sleepymagi

Edited, Mar 23rd 2010 3:05am by Sleepymagi
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#12 Mar 24 2010 at 3:19 AM Rating: Decent
703 posts
Black Market: Sell Ex/Rare items for a hefty fee? Perhaps even a daily access fee of some amount as chocobos used to reach.
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#13 Mar 24 2010 at 6:54 AM Rating: Good
810 posts
Typically a black market sells items that are either obtained illegally, or illegal themselves. I suppose there could be certain useful items that aren't allowed to be sold in cities that you could sell outside of the AH, but I don't think it would really feel like a black market since the game clearly allows you to obtain and sell them. It would just turn out to be an annoyance to players.

RMT is a black market, as well as selling accounts. These two will inevitably occur in FFXIV, but I doubt you'll want to take part in those markets.
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#14 Mar 25 2010 at 4:01 PM Rating: Decent
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If they don't supply an in-game auction house, you know some ******* is going to create an online one that people can use to post trades.

I mean really they are going against the grain for no real reason.
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#15 Mar 25 2010 at 6:52 PM Rating: Good
11,539 posts
I would really hope the game has some form of AH/market. As much as I usually say that I don't want to see 14 be "just like everyone else", the AH is such a fundamental system of FFXI that I can't possibly fathom any positive reason to NOT include it.

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