Forum Settings
       
This Forum is Read Only

Leveling your char, or leveling your skill?Follow

#1 Mar 24 2010 at 8:34 PM Rating: Decent
10 posts
FF11 was the first mmo i ever played! Loved it, but it did become a grind. I have recently talked to some more of my friends in the MMO world that play alot more games than i do and have been asking them questions about what they are seeing about this FFxiv as opposed to my old one or even how they think this game is going to play.

From a couple of friends that i respect thier opinion alot, that thre WONT be expierence points anymore? Not like we had in FF11? Thats the way alot of the newer mmo's are going torwards this new deal of leveling your armor,swords and such? Is this true? Is this how the games have played out? Wll it be more like when you hit 75 in FF11 that we were doing skill up partys? Is this the createors way of getting rid of the grinding that we became used too, and tired of. No more exp?

I hope this is not true! I do want to get rid of the grinding but i also loved the feeling of leveling my char from lvl to lvl! I have only played W.O.W for a few levels, but the people that i respect have played it to its fullest and that game has managed to take the grind out "if you want". But still managed to have the ability to lvl your char in a party setup or solo if you like! This is want i have wanted to see from FFXIV!

If anyone has anymore info on this it would be great! Thx all Cant wait till i get my galka back or whatever hey are calling him now!
#2 Mar 24 2010 at 8:45 PM Rating: Decent
There will be no explicit character levels, and there will be no xp. You will level skills instead, and the skills you focus on will shape the development of your character. There are base character classes to choose from, with the ability to use learned skills from one class on another (similar to the sub-job system, though a little more open ended).

There isn't a whole lot of information to be found beyond that. The game has still in alpha (as far as we know) with the closed beta to follow with an NDA ensuring that the only information we get is the information SE gives us which may or may not be comprehensive as they tweak and adjust based on their own observations and tester feedback. Here is a link to a compilation of key points from the interviews that have taken place since the game was announced. If you can't find the answers you're looking for there, chances are you won't find them until subsequent releases from SE.
#3 Mar 24 2010 at 8:51 PM Rating: Good
Sage
****
6,470 posts
My suspicion is that this won't change the day-to-day of the game much at all from FFXI. As in, you'll still be in parties, you'll still be questing, you'll still be killing whatever mob gives the most bang for its buck ad nauseum. It'll just be a different number that's going up.

Won't know until we see it all in action, of course. But I wouldn't sweat the change.
____________________________
Latest Articles:
Monaco: What's Yours is Mine Review

Follow me on Twitter!
#4 Mar 24 2010 at 9:05 PM Rating: Decent
10 posts
Do you think there will be subjobs again? Or for exp say you choose the path gladiator, then at some some you would end up choosing say paladin? where you would start over again as we once did but without the use of subjob? Or as originaly say you pick archer is this something you would just take this all the way as people did with warrior?

Ans question my buddy had, im not seeing anything that looks the part of white mage? The 2 they have list look more the part of blk mage and red mage?
#5 Mar 24 2010 at 9:26 PM Rating: Good
Sage
****
6,470 posts
Galkahudson wrote:
Do you think there will be subjobs again? Or for exp say you choose the path gladiator, then at some some you would end up choosing say paladin? where you would start over again as we once did but without the use of subjob? Or as originaly say you pick archer is this something you would just take this all the way as people did with warrior?

Ans question my buddy had, im not seeing anything that looks the part of white mage? The 2 they have list look more the part of blk mage and red mage?


As Aurelius mentioned, it's looking like there'll be something similar in spirit to the subjob system, but not quite the same. It's been suggested that you'll be able to port some of the abilities from one class over to another one. One suspects that there will be some limits placed on it, but that's about as much as we know.

Currently, conjurer looks like the closest thing to a WHM, though it's not an exact match. The wikibase is pretty up-to-date; check it out for info on the classes and the job system.

Edited, Mar 24th 2010 11:27pm by Eske
____________________________
Latest Articles:
Monaco: What's Yours is Mine Review

Follow me on Twitter!
#6 Mar 24 2010 at 9:42 PM Rating: Good
10 posts
thx alot for the help guys, ill be looking forward to talking to you all on these forums!
#7 Mar 24 2010 at 11:14 PM Rating: Decent
Sage
*
182 posts
I have to say these have some of the most mature and helpful posts to an OP's questions Ive heard.
____________________________
#8 Mar 25 2010 at 8:56 AM Rating: Excellent
Scholar
***
1,536 posts
WoW didn't take the grind out "if you want", there was no grind to speak of in WoW...in fact I accomplished so much crap in WoW in two months time than I managed in 2 years time playing FFXI. WoW is dumbed down to the maximum attainable dumbness scale and that is why its so successful (not calling anyone dumb here but its more accessable this way). I want FFXIV to be nothing like WoW.
____________________________
MUTED
#9 Mar 25 2010 at 9:12 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
279 posts
How dare you be able to accomplish something in under 2 years.
#10 Mar 25 2010 at 9:45 AM Rating: Good
**
423 posts
Quote:
How dare you be able to accomplish something in under 2 years.


Not something, everything.

In WoW you can pile to 80 in... 3-4weeks? You grind rep for your achievements and get your endgame gear. The only thing that keeps people is they completely obliterate all you have done in the next patch and you rinse repeat for extra nice to have's and the new raid gear that will eventually as well... become obsolete. They don't challange you, they don't make you think, it's basically whoever gets to the best gear the fastest.

I am not saying that's bad, if you like that it's good. Personally i want to be challanged, for FFXI it wasn't the amount of time to level or anything such that made me quit... it was the lack of solo-ability, terrible drop rates, long wait times for parties, excessive travel time, death punishment and many other things that just made the game feel like a chore rather then relaxation.
#11 Mar 25 2010 at 10:13 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
214 posts
The way I see it is that you gain SP instead of XP in battles now, and spend those SP on the skills of your choice, I am really hoping they have some kind of board similar to FF13's Crystalrium system which is linked to the weapon you have equiped.

Edited, Mar 25th 2010 12:13pm by Diakar
____________________________

#12 Mar 25 2010 at 11:31 AM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
The last couple of posts are giving me a very strong feeling of de ja vu...
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#13 Mar 25 2010 at 12:47 PM Rating: Good
10 posts
Well im not saying W.O.W does or does not have grind? Im only going off watching my oomate at the time and he was grinding! Im just saying that you had the option. That you could get the feeling of getting on for an hour or 5 hours depending on what you wanted to do and still felt like you did something!

You guys tell me i dont know, like i said in a earlier posts i have heard games are going more to this skill up party type game. How do you go about assembling partys? Is the search engine for looking for people looking for the skill lvl needed? And my only problem with this is, these types have come out and people are still playing WOW! Is that something to be said for the types of games that are coming out now that people arent liking and FFxvi is getting ready to go down that route? Im alittle worried to be honest! I have been wanting this game for awhile and dam i just dont want it to suck!
#14 Mar 26 2010 at 11:55 AM Rating: Good
***
2,890 posts
Galkahudson wrote:
I have been wanting this game for awhile and dam i just dont want it to suck!


Honestly I think that is exactly what we are all saying one way or another.

One thing about leveling skill points vs experience points however is that it shows a greater potential for the games core progression to be splintered in a variety of different ways rather than a unified progression that everyone must partake.

What allot of people I think are missing is that there is a fundamental difference between a skill based system vs an xp based system. Skill based systems mean combat and taking down bosses would only be what you do if that is what you want to do. While a fisherman spends most of his time chasing down that epic fish the cook needs to finaly slay that epic bowl of soup that provides a stat boost that merely helps carpenters build that epic house. ( Notice the soup didn't have any combat related stats )

Both FFXI and WoW core progression is through combat, through combat I fight bigger things and get stronger. This system implies a dichotomy of do what ever you want vs fight raid bosses for epics and profits.

Now to me, spending months to finally make an epic batch of cookies might sound silly but even in the case of Ultima Online combat was most likely one of the larger reasons to become a great cook. After all soldiers are hungry and there will always be an ever present war effort.

In the end this skill based system may very well mean a drastically different experience overall where I spend most of my time not even fighting anything at all in what would normally be an end game environment right from the start rather than after 80+ levels of grinded xp doing forgettable tasks the entire time... ( End game with no combat? SAY IT AINT SO!)

That is what I find most interesting about this concept.

Edited, Mar 26th 2010 2:06pm by thorazinekizzez
#15 Mar 26 2010 at 2:27 PM Rating: Excellent
*****
11,539 posts
thorazinekizzez wrote:
spending months to finally make an epic batch of cookies


I would like some of these epic cookies you speak of.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#16 Mar 26 2010 at 2:31 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
549 posts
One thing I've been wondering about is how will the game determine the enemies strength relative to the player parties strength?

In FFXI it was easy (though inaccurate, Even Matches were far from even in most cases), I'm level 28, then enemy is level 28, so he's even, if he's a higher level it goes up.

I wonder how complex it'll be to determine this in FFXIV.
____________________________
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
#17 Mar 26 2010 at 5:21 PM Rating: Decent
***
2,890 posts
VayMasters wrote:
One thing I've been wondering about is how will the game determine the enemies strength relative to the player parties strength?

In FFXI it was easy (though inaccurate, Even Matches were far from even in most cases), I'm level 28, then enemy is level 28, so he's even, if he's a higher level it goes up.

I wonder how complex it'll be to determine this in FFXIV.


It depends mostly on the model SE uses to determine power growth in the game. A high power growth climb increases the importance of having a more robust way to guage a monsters strength where as a relatively low power growth can negate the need to have a gauging system at all since it will be easier to determine a relative strength of everything in the world by trial and error. A dragon will always be a dragon while a rabbit will always be a rabbit.

Skill based systems tend to lean more toward lesser power growth models in general since you do not have levels. The reason I say this is that it then becomes harder to designate location in the world to certain level ranges such as the dunes are where players go for levels 10-20 or the Ungorro(s) crater are for players between 50-56. Meaning that we will most likely see a more open and organic world where creatures of all strengths tend to exist more randomly yet their strengths will be more visible and memorable at a glance rather than forcing us to gauge every rabbit in the game manually.

Edited, Mar 26th 2010 7:22pm by thorazinekizzez
#18 Mar 26 2010 at 5:48 PM Rating: Excellent
Sage
*
155 posts
If anyone here has played Ultima Online, I believe their system to be kind of similar in a way to how I expect the lvl and class system to work in FFXIV. You character itself doesn't have a level, but your base stats, skills with specific weapons, tools and skills themselves do gradually increase with use. Class is determined by your stats and skillsets and changes over time as you characters stats and skills do. What I'm thinking we will see for 14 is something along those lines. I'm thinking it will be like this.

You start by choosing one of your basics classes. Say you choose Gladiator. While there will be numerous Gladiators there will be differences depending on how you actually play your char and how you develop him/her.

1 person can opt to use a dagger for example so he would obviously develop proficiency with dagger styled weapons as he uses them more and eventually unlock new Class Skills and Weapon Specific Skills that he can opt to learn if he so chooses at a cost of course. I'm assuming that in time, you may be able to learn ALL skills in the game, but for balancing purposes you may only have a certain number of skills assigned at any given time.

The same would go for the Gladiator who chooses a 1H Sword, 1H Sword and Shield, 2H Sword etc...

Depending on which weapon(s) you've choose to equipt, along with the skill lvl for said weapon(s) AND the specific skills you currently have assigned will all be calculated together. Then the game would now assign your Base Class Gladiator a Class Title or be replaced altogether. Be it Barbarian, Knight, Warrior etc.... As you develop your character further, you may stay along the same/similar path of what your Class Title is or it may very well change depending on how you progress and build your char over time aswells when as you change weapon/class layout..

As you delve deeper into the game, you'll more then likely to have dabbled in varying classes and weapons trying to decide where exactly you fit in and what suits you. Well, don't get too comfortable. Here's where the fun starts and it begins to get very interesting indeed.

While Weapon Skills would obviously be weapon specific. How about those Class Skills? I'm thinking S/Es talk about hybrid classes may very well involve something along the lines of the mixing and matching of these skills to unlock new Class Titles within each Base Class.

These are just my thoughts of how I think 14s system may be set up. I am in no way saying this is how it will actually be.. ;)


Edited, Mar 27th 2010 3:10am by Faaeng
____________________________
*Thievery* is not a job, but a lifestyle.
Now, let us show you how we live.
#19 Mar 26 2010 at 10:31 PM Rating: Decent
10 posts
very interesting! thx for the insight to someone who has never played anything other than FF11! well at least in MMO form!
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 24 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (24)