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New races not yet confirmed! New press is out, anywayFollow

#1 Mar 25 2010 at 6:16 AM Rating: Good
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Saw it on BG, who got it from Core. Nvidia Magazine is featuring FFXIV, woo!

Quote:

"Still, veterans of Final Fantasy XI will see some similarities in the character styles and professions, even though the specific races and classes will be new to the series. "The character creation from Final Fantasy XIV will be much more in-depth than that of previous titles of the series," says Yoshida-san, "Players will be able to generate avatars similar to thos in Final Fantasy XI if they choose to do so, but there will also be some new [player character] types." Want more specifics on the new characters? The devs are keeping that information tightly under wraps. though five distinctive races have been revealed so far."

Maybe new races though?

Link to BG thread
Link to original Core article




Edited to include the links :) and to fix stupidity

Edited, Mar 25th 2010 8:33am by Morsmorde
#2 Mar 25 2010 at 6:23 AM Rating: Decent
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This is in NO way a confirmation of new races.

Edit: Thread starter has changed his post and post title, which originally said that new races were "confirmed".

Edited, Mar 26th 2010 6:35pm by insanekangaroo
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#3 Mar 25 2010 at 6:30 AM Rating: Decent
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How could you read it in any other way? What could an "avatar type" be, besides character race? Especially in the context of that paragraph.

Edit: Oh god, I didn't even think about classes and stuff describing your type of avatar. To be fair, it's 5:30am and I haven't slept...

cleaning up the trash..



Edited, Mar 25th 2010 8:43am by Morsmorde
#4 Mar 25 2010 at 6:31 AM Rating: Good
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how do you delete posts? yahg

Edited, Mar 25th 2010 8:40am by Morsmorde
#5 Mar 25 2010 at 6:32 AM Rating: Good
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Morsmorde wrote:
How could you read it in any other way? What could an "avatar type" be, besides character race? Especially in the context of that paragraph.


Could be a different hair colour. Could be a bad translation.

It's speculation, not confirmation.
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#6 Mar 25 2010 at 6:33 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think what they are saying, is that your actual character model will have more variation than the FFXI counterparts. So using Galka as an example, there really are only 8 different Galka face models, which each have two different hair colors. I believe that comment is saying that the actual character types will have more customization.
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#7 Mar 25 2010 at 6:36 AM Rating: Decent
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insanekangaroo wrote:
Could be a different hair colour.

I do disagree with this, though. There's no way "redhead" constitutes a new player character type ha

edit: tired grammar

Edited, Mar 25th 2010 8:37am by Morsmorde
#8 Mar 25 2010 at 6:45 AM Rating: Decent
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im hoping for a lizzard man race or being able to play as a goblin
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#9 Mar 25 2010 at 6:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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They could be referring to male mithra and female galka(I know galka are uni, but w(e, you know what I mean). I really hope it is at least one new race though. Say what you want, but it would spice things up a bit and make it feel more like a new world instead of an old world rehashed.

I am not saying "OMG FFXIV = FFXI-2" I am merely saying, new and more races wouldn't hurt. Even if that is not what they meant by the info here one can still hope, and fun to have some new info at least. Can't wait for E3!
#10 Mar 25 2010 at 7:34 AM Rating: Excellent
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To me, "generate avatars similar to those in Final Fantasy XI" refers to the selection XI had, meaning you could make your XIV character look exactly like an XI character if you wanted, and "some new [player character] types" means you can make designs that weren't in XI. That's how I read it anyway.

Either way, I think the fact that they are still dodging the race question indicates they may be planning something.
#11 Mar 25 2010 at 10:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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After being filtered through an English translator, the author's preconceptions, and the added/removed context of an article, that could mean a lot of things. I do think new races is the most likely though, and it wouldn't be the first time they've hinted at it.

#12 Mar 25 2010 at 10:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Faldein wrote:
To me, "generate avatars similar to those in Final Fantasy XI" refers to the selection XI had, meaning you could make your XIV character look exactly like an XI character if you wanted, and "some new [player character] types" means you can make designs that weren't in XI. That's how I read it anyway.

Either way, I think the fact that they are still dodging the race question indicates they may be planning something.


I thought it was fairly obvious what it meant, the person I'm quoting is on the right track. I don't know how many of you played FFXI but if you have you should have got it. In FFXI there were only three types of avatar for each race (I think they were actually called Type A, Type B and Type C), other than that the only customization was the size. What the article is saying here is FFXIV will have the same three types of avatars for each race along with some new ones and perhaps some better customization.

So yeah, taken in context of FFXI it is quite clear.

EDIT: And it has nothing to do with a new race.

Edited, Mar 25th 2010 10:25am by Yogtheterrible
#13 Mar 25 2010 at 10:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
What the article is saying here is FFXIV will have the same three types of avatars for each race along with some new ones and perhaps some better customization.

Maybe, but somehow I doubt it. I think it's already been confirmed that characters in this game will be fully customizable - individual resizable features and so on, which means potentially infinite designs. "Some new types" of faces would be a very strange way to describe that.
#14 Mar 25 2010 at 11:09 AM Rating: Decent
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These Forums have really let me down a lot lately. There's a lot of pointless posts coming off like they're actually posting something that's Fact, when it's only speculation.

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#15 Mar 25 2010 at 11:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Borkachev wrote:
Quote:
What the article is saying here is FFXIV will have the same three types of avatars for each race along with some new ones and perhaps some better customization.

Maybe, but somehow I doubt it. I think it's already been confirmed that characters in this game will be fully customizable - individual resizable features and so on, which means potentially infinite designs. "Some new types" of faces would be a very strange way to describe that.


I don't think it's going to be as customizable as they are leading us to believe. Certainly more than FFXI but SE has never been one for customization. I expect you'll be able to change the color of hair and skin...size of the character and perhaps hair style but other than that I doubt there will be much customization.

Besides, just because they provide templates doesn't mean there wont be customization. Whether you believe me or not it is clear to me this article says there will be character templates just like in FFXI. After that if you want to believe they will be fully customizable, go for it, but they have said various times in interviews that the templates from FFXI will be available in FFXIV so you can make your character look exactly like the one you played in FFXI.

Edited, Mar 25th 2010 1:03pm by Yogtheterrible
#16 Mar 25 2010 at 11:27 AM Rating: Good
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Yogtheterrible wrote:
Faldein wrote:
To me, "generate avatars similar to those in Final Fantasy XI" refers to the selection XI had, meaning you could make your XIV character look exactly like an XI character if you wanted, and "some new [player character] types" means you can make designs that weren't in XI. That's how I read it anyway.

Either way, I think the fact that they are still dodging the race question indicates they may be planning something.


I thought it was fairly obvious what it meant, the person I'm quoting is on the right track. I don't know how many of you played FFXI but if you have you should have got it. In FFXI there were only three types of avatar for each race (I think they were actually called Type A, Type B and Type C), other than that the only customization was the size. What the article is saying here is FFXIV will have the same three types of avatars for each race along with some new ones and perhaps some better customization.

So yeah, taken in context of FFXI it is quite clear.

EDIT: And it has nothing to do with a new race.

Edited, Mar 25th 2010 10:25am by Yogtheterrible


Unless you're talking about something else, FFXI was:

5 races, each with
8 faces/hair, each with
2 color options, and
3 size choices

So essentially 240 total choices.

As I read it, the article seems to imply that XIV's character creation will be more robust; e.g.: Oblivion, Fallout 3, Sims 3, etc.

I could definitely see how one could read it as hinting at new races though. If we had any races, I might expect to see Manthra, but that's probably about it. A totally new 6th race (or 7th?) would definitely not be unwelcome though, nor would it be expected, especially if they can keep to original races. Besides the standard Human and Elf, XI did a nice job of staying away from the Orc/Dwarf/Halfling/Ogre list (and no, Taru aren't halflings; halflings are usually waist high and lanky, not knee high and semi-portly). SE tends to have a history of off-the-wall races (Umaro, Nanaki, Freya/Amarant/Quina, Khimari & Hypello/Guado, Fran & Bangaa/Seeq). I know I'm missing a couple, considering I'm skipping some games but you get the idea. Even Allods came out of left field with Gibberlings (looks like Snarf mated with a moogle) and Arisen (looked like techno Egyptians).

So if there are 6+ races in 14, I hope that they're either new and original, or at least rehashes of previous races like Bangaa/Ronso/Yeti or whatnot.

And I did like the idea of racially specific abilities in WoW that, so long as they weren't TOO gamebreaking, would make a nice addition, but I really don't expect to see that at all.
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#17 Mar 25 2010 at 1:11 PM Rating: Good
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Hmm, maybe they added a little since I played FFXI, or maybe I just dont' remember it exactly. Either way there weren't that many choices and everyone looked pretty much the same. If you notice from the pictures given to us about customization the face for the female human is exactly the same for every one.
#18 Mar 25 2010 at 1:41 PM Rating: Decent
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My guess at new playable races (if they did add new ones):

Yag

Quadav

Orc

Only they would name them different like the other races... *sigh*

/sarcasm off

Edited, Mar 25th 2010 3:43pm by vaudian
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#19 Mar 25 2010 at 1:57 PM Rating: Good
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#20 Mar 25 2010 at 3:10 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm hoping for Viera, if any. I thought that they were done pretty well.

Edited, Mar 25th 2010 5:10pm by VayMasters
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#21 Mar 25 2010 at 3:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Skeptic wrote:
These Forums have really let me down a lot lately. There's a lot of pointless posts coming off like they're actually posting something that's Fact, when it's only speculation.

::Sigh::


The title of this thread does read "New races not yet confirmed! New press is out, anyway" right?

Yesterday, at 5:30 in the morning, I posted this thread with a different title (I read it as an unambiguous confirmation of new races the first time. It was late, cut me some slack), then insanekangaroo pointed out my mistake, so within like 2 minutes I edited the thread title. Or so I thought?

Skeptic, if it doesn't read right, then I apologize. If it does, though, then what the **** man?
#22 Mar 25 2010 at 3:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Morsmorde wrote:
"Players will be able to generate avatars similar to thos in Final Fantasy XI if they choose to do so, but there will also be some new [player character] types."

In this context it's far more likely they're talking about new character models than new races. They're saying "You can make FFXIV character look like your old FFXI characters (hair, skin, face) if you want to, but we're not just upgrading FFXI faces and hair, we're adding new faces and hair as well."
#23 Mar 25 2010 at 3:50 PM Rating: Good
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VayMasters wrote:
I'm hoping for Viera, if any. I thought that they were done pretty well.

Edited, Mar 25th 2010 5:10pm by VayMasters

I don't think they'd do Viera. Viera are exclusive to Ivalice. (AKA: Final Fantasy Tactics, Final Fantasy Tactics Advance, Final Fantasy Tactics Advance 2: Grimoire of the Rift, and Final Fantasy XII.)

I can't think of a time where they crossed races over from different worlds, with the exceptions of humans, whom are just a universally used race for obvious reasons.


It would more than likely be something that existed in Vana'diel, although I don't know what that could be. Probably not a Beastman race, which doesn't leave much else to be desired.
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#24 Mar 25 2010 at 5:07 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Skeptic, if it doesn't read right, then I apologize. If it does, though, then what the **** man?


There's a reason why he doesn't have any color to his name. I would not worry overmuch about his opinion.

As for the prospect of new races, I'm trying not to get my hopes up, but I'm not doing a very good job :c
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#25 Mar 25 2010 at 5:29 PM Rating: Good
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The odds are heavily against new races being introduced this far in the development pipeline. I don't really care about them one way or the other, my heart is set on Lalafell.
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#26 Mar 25 2010 at 6:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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Even if I DID have my heart set on something, it would be really nice just to know that I'll be seeing a new race around the towns and in parties ;/
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#27 Mar 25 2010 at 6:10 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
Even if I DID have my heart set on something, it would be really nice just to know that I'll be seeing a new race around the towns and in parties ;/


ALL RACES ARE NOW LALAFELL


that would be awesome


Edited, Mar 25th 2010 5:11pm by Kirbster
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#28 Mar 25 2010 at 6:13 PM Rating: Good
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Even if it wouldn't effect my choice of race, I'll be using an Elezen, I would like to see a few more playable races included in FFXIV.
Of course, I'd like for everyone to finally get their wish and have Manthras. I'd also fall in with the popular vote and say Vieras should show up. While we're making a wish list (that most likely won't ever happen) I'd also like to toss in Bangaas. Why not? I'm sure with that many different races, and enough variation to customize your avatar, you won't feel like every single person you run into later in the game is our twin.
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#29 Mar 25 2010 at 6:22 PM Rating: Good
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Kirbster wrote:
The odds are heavily against new races being introduced this far in the development pipeline. I don't really care about them one way or the other, my heart is set on Lalafell.

Introduced maybe, but they could be already implemented and just not revealed.

Kind of unlikely, I guess. They've already shown the game's intro video (to some people) and I don't remember anyone who saw it screaming "There was a Bangaa!" If they were in the game world, I'm sure they'd be in the intro.

But the thing about MMOs is that the "development pipeline" is infinite. It's perfectly reasonable to expect a new race, say, in the first expansion.

#30 Mar 25 2010 at 6:35 PM Rating: Good
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Borkachev wrote:
Kirbster wrote:
The odds are heavily against new races being introduced this far in the development pipeline. I don't really care about them one way or the other, my heart is set on Lalafell.

Introduced maybe, but they could be already implemented and just not revealed.

Kind of unlikely, I guess. They've already shown the game's intro video (to some people) and I don't remember anyone who saw it screaming "There was a Bangaa!" If they were in the game world, I'm sure they'd be in the intro.

But the thing about MMOs is that the "development pipeline" is infinite. It's perfectly reasonable to expect a new race, say, in the first expansion.



Honestly, if FFXI is any indicator of what to expect (one character with multiple jobs), then I think any and all races should be available at launch.

It's one thing to add new classes (as long as they aren't race specific) because all existing characters can now pick that class up and play it. It's another thing entirely to introduce a brand new race months down the line when people have already built their characters up.

"New races" works in a game where it's one class per character because you can just start a new character as a new class since you'd have to start a new character to play that class ANYWAY. In a case like XI, you'd have to leave your existing character behind and start from scratch; it wouldn't be fair to introduce a new race significantly post release, unless you're going to offer free (or inexpensive) race changes to it, since you're forcing your players who like that race to pick between not playing it, or starting over from scratch.
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#31 Mar 25 2010 at 6:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ehhh.
It could very well be that more races already well established, they're just playing the marketing game for all it's worth.

The coyness in their responses was odd, seeing as how for all their valid wishywashyness on game mechanics they can wield a firm and straightforward 'No' when it comes time to put a quick end to the kind of hype they have no intention of delivering on (jump). That or I'm confusing 'coyness' with 'cold sweat terror', which is a perfectly reasonable response to hearing the same question crop up again and again.


/bah. I'm such a slow poster.



Edited, Mar 25th 2010 8:44pm by Zemzelette
#32 Mar 25 2010 at 6:48 PM Rating: Good
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Zemzelette wrote:
The coyness in their responses was odd, seeing as how for all their valid wishywashyness on game mechanics they can wield a firm and straightforward 'No' when it comes time to put a quick end to the kind of hype they have no intention of delivering on (jump).


Honestly, it seems most SE Q&As are like that. They have a preset amount of information they will willingly give out, and the answer to everything else is some reworded variant that they can neither confirm nor deny something.

The main thing I've gathered from SE over the years is that "No plans at this time" means "No, until/unless we change our minds". Any other answer from that such as "You'll have to wait and find out" or "We don't want to spoil it" or "We don't want to go into detail at this time" is just stalling that sometimes means yes and other times means no.

I haven't really been able to discern any responses that have usually tended to mean "Yes, but we're not telling you". Usually any answer but a yes or a no is just "We're not answering that question."

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#33 Mar 25 2010 at 7:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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I haven't either.
I didn't mean to imply I did, I understand SE is typically wishy-washy. I just meant to highlight they have a vested interest in being vague on alot of topics, but not really this one.

For something like gameplay mechanics, they want to be vague because they want to use the information to fuel the hype machine later and want to keep it away from competitors. For something like Jump, there's no marketable or competitive value, so they're free to be honest with it.

On the topic of Races, if the answer is No, it falls into the same category as Jump. There's no marketable value in not having something, they're not going to add a blank page to the races section of the website and have that little scrolly on the bottom say "New Update! World->Races-> Absolutely nothing!". Similarly there's no competitive value to thin air.

So why the canned phrase fluff?
There's no real benefit to sewing the seeds of confusion. Unless of course, they're genuinely afraid of putting people off. (But, really, if your that scared your bad news is going to turn away customers, why wouldn't you take the 6 month golden opportunity to resolve the issue?)

That's all I'd really meant to say.

Edited, Mar 25th 2010 10:07pm by Zemzelette
#34 Mar 25 2010 at 8:10 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia wrote:
Borkachev wrote:
Kirbster wrote:
The odds are heavily against new races being introduced this far in the development pipeline. I don't really care about them one way or the other, my heart is set on Lalafell.

Introduced maybe, but they could be already implemented and just not revealed.

Kind of unlikely, I guess. They've already shown the game's intro video (to some people) and I don't remember anyone who saw it screaming "There was a Bangaa!" If they were in the game world, I'm sure they'd be in the intro.

But the thing about MMOs is that the "development pipeline" is infinite. It's perfectly reasonable to expect a new race, say, in the first expansion.


Honestly, if FFXI is any indicator of what to expect (one character with multiple jobs), then I think any and all races should be available at launch.

Well, races in FFXI were pretty well the poster child of "PS2 limitations." Remember how much trouble it was for them to add new equipment due to memory restrictions... well, due to the way the game was programmed, adding one new race meant bringing in a new model for every piece of equipment in the game. It was pretty well impossible.

Quote:
It's one thing to add new classes (as long as they aren't race specific) because all existing characters can now pick that class up and play it. It's another thing entirely to introduce a brand new race months down the line when people have already built their characters up.

"New races" works in a game where it's one class per character because you can just start a new character as a new class since you'd have to start a new character to play that class ANYWAY. In a case like XI, you'd have to leave your existing character behind and start from scratch; it wouldn't be fair to introduce a new race significantly post release, unless you're going to offer free (or inexpensive) race changes to it, since you're forcing your players who like that race to pick between not playing it, or starting over from scratch.

That's an argument against it, but it's far from the nail in the coffin. FFXI added things every year that slighted the early adopters far, far worse than a new race would. The RNG nerf, the drop in lvl >50 EXP requirements, the low-level avatar battles... these all caused earth-shaking freakouts among various portions of the playerbase, but they were welcomed by the majority. By comparison, the grumbling over a new race would be miniscule.

You mentioned games based on one class per character. Remember that new races don't "work" any better in those games than they would in this one - they just don't have any alternative. Adding a new race to FFXIV would be the equivalent of adding a new class to those games. People would deal with it.
#35 Mar 25 2010 at 8:20 PM Rating: Decent
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i would get a kick from seeing a Bangaa running down a city.

i'll keep throwing out the name "lizard" everytime one joins a party until i meet someone who gets the reference and see how they react.
#36 Mar 25 2010 at 8:57 PM Rating: Good
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Yogtheterrible wrote:
Hmm, maybe they added a little since I played FFXI, or maybe I just dont' remember it exactly. Either way there weren't that many choices and everyone looked pretty much the same. If you notice from the pictures given to us about customization the face for the female human is exactly the same for every one.


If you are talking about the page on the FF XIV website then I think you are missing the emphasis of that page, which is skin and hair color, and not really having to do with faces or anything else for that matter.
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#37 Mar 25 2010 at 10:02 PM Rating: Decent
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I still think they should've used the Ivalice setting, so we'd have more original races in an MMO context. I mean...Viera, Bangaa, etc...would be fun.

Alas, they chose to follow FFXI very closely. Oh well.
#38 Mar 25 2010 at 11:32 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm really not one to get optimistic, but I wouldn't put it completely past SE to figure that if they spring 5 new races at launch, everyone will completely **** themselves. I would bet money against such a cunning effort, but wouldn't put it outside the realm of possibility, either.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

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#39 Mar 26 2010 at 4:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
I'm really not one to get optimistic, but I wouldn't put it completely past SE to figure that if they spring 5 new races at launch, everyone will completely sh*t themselves. I would bet money against such a cunning effort, but wouldn't put it outside the realm of possibility, either.


Well it seems like, if any company were to do such a thing, it would be SE.

Of course I am itching for new info just as much as the next person, but I do see some advantages with the "SE route". It creates suspense, but also it prevents us from expecting things and then being let down, if SE doesn't really step up to the plate and deliver what they had promised (Pre-release developerss' WAR vs retail WAR or Peter Molyneux's Fable vs the real Fable anyone?).

I guess the bad thing is people start to hope for things, because it really isn't "outside the realm of possibility". This might happen in several aspects of the game, and when we finally get to see the final product, and it is missing all of the things, that albeit a bit crazy, we still had our hopes for, well we end up being just as dissapointed as previously. Something that could have been prevented easily by SE saying "No there won't be...this or that".

I think SE's way of doing it is definately better, IF they actually have at least one or two "big surprises" near the end to reveal. However if we end up without getting any surprises I would say I prefer having been told about it earlier instead of being kept in suspense for no reason, because in the end it will only breed dissapointment.
#40 Mar 26 2010 at 1:39 PM Rating: Good
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Borkachev wrote:
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It's one thing to add new classes (as long as they aren't race specific) because all existing characters can now pick that class up and play it. It's another thing entirely to introduce a brand new race months down the line when people have already built their characters up.

"New races" works in a game where it's one class per character because you can just start a new character as a new class since you'd have to start a new character to play that class ANYWAY. In a case like XI, you'd have to leave your existing character behind and start from scratch; it wouldn't be fair to introduce a new race significantly post release, unless you're going to offer free (or inexpensive) race changes to it, since you're forcing your players who like that race to pick between not playing it, or starting over from scratch.

That's an argument against it, but it's far from the nail in the coffin. FFXI added things every year that slighted the early adopters far, far worse than a new race would. The RNG nerf, the drop in lvl >50 EXP requirements, the low-level avatar battles... these all caused earth-shaking freakouts among various portions of the playerbase, but they were welcomed by the majority. By comparison, the grumbling over a new race would be miniscule.

You mentioned games based on one class per character. Remember that new races don't "work" any better in those games than they would in this one - they just don't have any alternative. Adding a new race to FFXIV would be the equivalent of adding a new class to those games. People would deal with it.


Ok, let's just compare FFXI and WoW, since they're the easiest two.

In WoW, I have an Undead Warrior.
A new class is added, Death Knight. If I want to play DK, I must create a new DK character with the race of my choice to play it.
A new race is added, Blood Elf. If I want to play BE, I must create a new BE character with the class of my choice to play it.

In this example, adding a new class or adding a new race are pretty much the same. I have to create a new character.

In FFXI, I have an Elvaan Warrior.
A new class is added, Samurai. If I want to play Samurai, I take my Elvaan to an NPC, unlock the class through a quest, and my Elvaan Warrior can now ALSO be an Elvaan Samurai, or if I wanted, WAR/SAM or SAM/WAR.
A new race is added, Tonberry. If I want to play a Tonberry, I must make a completely new character that is a Tonberry and start from scratch at level 1 all jobs.

So no, adding a new race in FFXI would be COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than adding a new job. It's not just a matter of "Go to your moogle and race change", it's a matter of starting a brand new character over from scratch at level 1. If this were a game where you were limited to one job per character then it would be the same, but as you can see, it's totally different.

As such, a game like this should add ALL playable races at the start and NEVER add any new ones. New jobs are easy to pick up on an existing character; new races mean new characters. And if there's anything most FFXI players will tell you they like about the job system, it's the fact that you don't have to have multiple characters to play multiple jobs, like most other MMORPGs out there.

EDIT: Also, xp tnl nerfs and class nerfs don't have nearly a game shattering affect as a new race. Lowered xp tnl still benefits anyone who will continue to level new jobs (I leveled two to 75 prenerf and three after). Job nerfs don't preclude you from still playing that job (albeit needing to relearn it) or changing job but remaining on the same character. Neither reduced xp nor job nerfs actually force you to start a NEW CHARACTER from scratch. Adding a new job does not force you to start a new character from scratch. Adding a new race -after release- does.

EDIT2: Brain ****; corrected.

Edited, Mar 26th 2010 3:43pm by Mikhalia
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#41 Mar 26 2010 at 2:01 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
So no, adding a new race in FFXI would be COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than adding a new job.

Different from adding a new job in FFXI, but not different from adding one in any other game, as you explained.

A game like WoW requires new characters when either a new job or a new race are added, and people deal with it. FFXI/XIV happens to have the luxury of not requiring a new character in one of those cases. It's a bonus! Just because people are used to not having to create new characters as often as in other games doesn't mean they should have an absolute expectation that they never will.

Quote:
EDIT: Also, xp tnl nerfs and class nerfs don't have nearly a game shattering affect as a new race. Lowered xp tnl still benefits anyone who will continue to level new jobs (I leveled two to 75 prenerf and three after).

Just as new races benefit anyone who creates new characters.

Quote:
Job nerfs don't preclude you from still playing that job (albeit needing to relearn it) or changing job but remaining on the same character.

And a new race doesn't stop you from continuing with your current character. Job nerfs are a much, much bigger deal than a new race because they actually negate what you've already achieved instead of just offering you more options.

Quote:
Neither reduced xp nor job nerfs actually force you to start a NEW CHARACTER from scratch. Adding a new job does not force you to start a new character from scratch. Adding a new race -after release- does.

What's the huge, life-ending problem with starting a new character? People did it all the time in FFXI - on a whim, even - and they sure as **** do it in other games. You lose a few skills (I don't know exactly what will carry over between jobs in XIV) and you have to come up with a new name. Your knowledge of the game and the items/money you've collected can be transferred over, and those are the real time sinks.
#42 Mar 26 2010 at 2:20 PM Rating: Good
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Borkachev wrote:
Quote:
So no, adding a new race in FFXI would be COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than adding a new job.

Different from adding a new job in FFXI, but not different from adding one in any other game, as you explained.

A game like WoW requires new characters when either a new job or a new race are added, and people deal with it. FFXI/XIV happens to have the luxury of not requiring a new character in one of those cases. It's a bonus! Just because people are used to not having to create new characters as often as in other games doesn't mean they should have an absolute expectation that they never will.


If you have to use the words "people deal with it", doesn't that inherently imply it's a problem? People don't "deal with" things they like. Yes, FFXI players had the absolute expectation that they should never have to create another character. Yes, FFXIV characters should have that same expectation.

Borkachev wrote:
Quote:
EDIT: Also, xp tnl nerfs and class nerfs don't have nearly a game shattering affect as a new race. Lowered xp tnl still benefits anyone who will continue to level new jobs (I leveled two to 75 prenerf and three after).

Just as new races benefit anyone who creates new characters.


New races don't benefit new characters so much as they penalize existing ones. They provide a minor benefit to new players (A new bit of customization) at the expense of SEVERELY PUNISHING your existing players (Either don't play the new class or start over from scratch)

One of the best parts of FFXI's job system (and FFXIV is already going to be the same in this respect) is that at NO POINT does the game ever FORCE you to start over entirely from scratch. No matter what crafts or jobs you level, you always have your character and your name, your reputation levels and your skills.

Even completely nerfing a job into the ground doesn't force you to make a NEW CHARACTER, it just forces you to choose between a new job on the SAME character or to continue playing your current one.

Adding a new race post release is the only way that a player would be FORCED to make a new character from scratch in order to enjoy part of the new expansion's content (the new race).

Again, if a new class meant a new character ANYWAY, then everyone has so many characters that "What's one more?" but I dare say the vast majority of FFXI players only had one character that they ever played to the point that it wasn't considered a mule. I had two mules, but only one main. comparatively in WoW, I wanted to play all 10 classes so I had 10 characters.

If BLU, COR, PUP, DNC, and SCH all came with the caveat that "You must create a new character to play these classes", the player base would have been in an absolute uproar. There is no positive benefit to be had from making your older players start a second character because their current one cannot enjoy a major selling point of the expansion (A new race).

Borkachev wrote:
Quote:
Job nerfs don't preclude you from still playing that job (albeit needing to relearn it) or changing job but remaining on the same character.

And a new race doesn't stop you from continuing with your current character. Job nerfs are a much, much bigger deal than a new race because they actually negate what you've already achieved instead of just offering you more options.

Quote:
Neither reduced xp nor job nerfs actually force you to start a NEW CHARACTER from scratch. Adding a new job does not force you to start a new character from scratch. Adding a new race -after release- does.

What's the huge, life-ending problem with starting a new character? People did it all the time in FFXI - on a whim, even - and they sure as **** do it in other games. You lose a few skills (I don't know exactly what will carry over between jobs in XIV) and you have to come up with a new name. Your knowledge of the game and the items/money you've collected can be transferred over, and those are the real time sinks.


Already covered this earlier in this same post, but to repeat: Job nerfs, at worst, result in the SAME character playing a new job. New races require a COMPLETELY NEW CHARACTER to play. So yes, they're worse. No, a new race doesn't stop you from playing your current character, but it does force you to split your time between two different ones.

As I stated before, one of the best parts of FFXI was that regardless of your job, you were always your character. Whether I was Mikhalia the BLM, Mikhalia the BRD, Mikhalia the DRG, I was still the Elvaan Mikhalia with the same linkshells, the same equipment, the same money... If I had to make a new character, that means I have to constantly send my money and items back and forth between characters (especially in situations like BLM/WHM/BRD where there's a ton of overlap).

If you want a game where you have to remember that all of your friends have 5 different alts and have to constantly log off and on to change class then go play... every other MMORPG out there.

In a game where one character can be every class, forcing a player to make a new character (and level those classes and skills over from scratch) is an unnecessary inconvenience with minimal to no positive benefit.
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#43 Mar 26 2010 at 5:02 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'd sooner like to see a race switch option than have any kind of restriction on adding new races. That's the kind of fluffy service I'd prefer seeing Crysta being used for, and that anti-alt-itis community appeal wouldn't be tarnished as that's all really in the character's Name. Seems like a winning situation all around.



Edited, Mar 26th 2010 7:09pm by Zemzelette
#44 Mar 26 2010 at 5:54 PM Rating: Good
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Zemzelette wrote:
I'd sooner like to see a race switch option than have any kind of restriction on adding new races. That's the kind of fluffy service I'd prefer seeing Crysta being used for, and that anti-alt-itis community appeal wouldn't be tarnished as that's all really in the character's Name. Seems like a winning situation all around.


Normally I'd balk at a race switch option, because it seems so... it's hard to say really what irks me about it. Just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. But a choice to use Crysta to change race (not name) is an alright compromise in my book, provided that people wouldn't be able to change race over and over and over again.
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#45 Mar 26 2010 at 8:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
New races don't benefit new characters so much as they penalize existing ones. They provide a minor benefit to new players (A new bit of customization) at the expense of SEVERELY PUNISHING your existing players (Either don't play the new class or start over from scratch)

This makes no sense! If it's a minor benefit, then why would people be forced to play it? The ones who want to play the new race will decide whether it's worth starting a new character for. That's what we would call a "happy dilemma": the need to choose between two desirable options. The players who don't care will go on with their lives, at least happy to see (as Kachi said) a bit more variety in the people around them. It's inherent to the whole concept: the only people who can possibly be "punished" are those who badly want to try the new race.

As far as I can tell, your argument boils down to this: you would rather be denied access altogether to something you want than face having to make the decision to pay the price for it. And everything in this world has a price. How do you get by in your everyday life? When a new car comes out that you want, do you curse the manufacturer for FORCING you to pay $25,000 for it?

Quote:
If BLU, COR, PUP, DNC, and SCH all came with the caveat that "You must create a new character to play these classes", the player base would have been in an absolute uproar.

Yes, probably. But that would have meant Square was changing the rules. The direct comparison would be a new race released with that expansion, which I'm positive would have been met with overwhelming support. People were calling for new races constantly when I was playing.

Edited, Mar 26th 2010 9:59pm by Borkachev
#46 Mar 27 2010 at 4:53 AM Rating: Decent
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I wouldn't be surprised if they added the Female Only Race of "Gria" ( http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Gria ). I imagine SE would give them a new name for that race instead of Gria if they did ad them to FFXIV. They could also then add Male Miqo'te (Male Mithra) because of the popular demand. One thing I noticed was in the concept art picture on FFXIV website under the guildleves tab. If you notice the short girl on the far left of the picture you will notice she has little horns sticking out from her hair and small pointed ears. Now while this could just be a really tall Female Lalafell with some type of helm, if you notice the Male Lalafell at the table and look closely she doesn't really look like a Lalafell. More like a small Hyur female with pointed ears and little horns sticking out of her hair. I thought it was at least interesting for those who haven't already noticed.

Edited, Mar 27th 2010 6:53am by AeramisWolfLord
#47 Mar 27 2010 at 5:08 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't remember where I saw it, or if I am just pulling this out of a hat, but didn't SE go out and say that they will not have Gria? I seem to remember something like an interview where the question was asked, due to the same reasons you give now, and SE said no.

Like I said, I could be totally off and I can't provide any link to where it was said, maybe someone else knows more.
#48 Mar 27 2010 at 12:13 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
I'm really not one to get optimistic, but I wouldn't put it completely past SE to figure that if they spring 5 new races at launch, everyone will completely sh*t themselves. I would bet money against such a cunning effort, but wouldn't put it outside the realm of possibility, either.


I agree that springing at least two new races at launch would definitely generate a lot of excitement among their customer base, and might even encourage a few people to take a second look at FFXIV who decided to pass on the game originally.

However, I would put new races past the realm of possibility at this point.

The first few rounds of interviews and media made it pretty clear that SE did not plan on adding new races initially. That means adding new races would require SE to divert resources (however insignificant they might seem) from other projects. Since SE has admitted that the game is only 50-60% completed, I just don't see this happening in light of their hard 2010 deadline.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see new races, but honestly, if you watch the FFXIV portion of the Vanafest Coverage, it seems like Komoto has enough on his plate already.
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#49 Mar 27 2010 at 2:32 PM Rating: Decent
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KatoArabel wrote:
I still think they should've used the Ivalice setting, so we'd have more original races in an MMO context. I mean...Viera, Bangaa, etc...would be fun.

Alas, they chose to follow FFXI very closely. Oh well.
You're right, we would have...

Viera (And Feol Viera too, if you want to include both.)
Bangaa
Moogles
Baknamy
Human
Garif
Uruta-Yensa (Although they really don't count, tbh.)
Aegyl (Granted, they departed from Ivalice, but I still think they should count.)
Gria
Seeq
Helgas (Probably wouldn't count.)
Rev


That's 10 to 13 different variations. And there are probably a few I forgot. So yeah, it would have been a better platform for them to have run with. But oh well. :(

PS: If we did have Ivalice races, which ones would you guys be? I'd probably pick Gria or Human, because I'm boring. :(

Edited, Mar 27th 2010 4:35pm by Zackary
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#50 Mar 27 2010 at 2:36 PM Rating: Decent
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I dream of the day that a Final Fantasy is released that lets me play as a play as a moogle. /sigh
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#51 Mar 27 2010 at 3:08 PM Rating: Good
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Zackary wrote:
KatoArabel wrote:
I still think they should've used the Ivalice setting, so we'd have more original races in an MMO context. I mean...Viera, Bangaa, etc...would be fun.

Alas, they chose to follow FFXI very closely. Oh well.
You're right, we would have...

Viera (And Feol Viera too, if you want to include both.)
Bangaa
Moogles
Baknamy
Human
Garif
Uruta-Yensa (Although they really don't count, tbh.)
Aegyl (Granted, they departed from Ivalice, but I still think they should count.)
Gria
Seeq
Helgas (Probably wouldn't count.)
Rev


That's 10 to 13 different variations. And there are probably a few I forgot. So yeah, it would have been a better platform for them to have run with. But oh well. :(

PS: If we did have Ivalice races, which ones would you guys be? I'd probably pick Gria or Human, because I'm boring. :(

Edited, Mar 27th 2010 4:35pm by Zackary


Maybe if they only allowed five or six of those races.
More races = a significant amount of more modeling, texuring and animation labor for differing armors and weapons. I'd rather have fewer races with more unique armor sets than more races with more reskinned armor.
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