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#1 Mar 25 2010 at 3:30 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm kind of concerned about something I see as a real possibility. Many- MANY, players of FFXIV will be coming from FFXI and well be referencing things from FFXI as well. It's already happening with all the "Conjuror is like RDM" and "I'm not going to call Galka 'Roegadyn'. It's stupid".

I can seriously see this behavior ending a couple different ways:
1) The people who didn't play FFXI will be subject to some form of discrimination & prejudice ('Oh you're one of those people who doesn't understand FF MMO mechanics. n00b.' -forexample-)
or
2) The players who weren't around for FFXI will have to get used to using two names for all the races, jobs, etc. (-forexample- "Party for M2-3 looking for Manthra Monk, Rog. Tank, and taru any mage job.")

Do you think it's possible that we'll see some sort of civil disorder b/c SE is making so many things similar, yet different?
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#2 Mar 25 2010 at 3:35 PM Rating: Decent
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I think you're vastly overestimating the problem.

The feeling some hold that FFXIV is FFXI-2 will die extremely quickly, probably before the end of public beta (if there is one). People will use the correct race and class names at release. It's far more likely you'll be made fun of for trying to pretend FFXIV is FFXI-2 than for not having played FFXI.
#3 Mar 25 2010 at 3:52 PM Rating: Decent
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Allegory wrote:
I think you're vastly overestimating the problem.
^this.

People tried to drag WoW terms over to Aion beta when I was playing it, but that died off pretty quickly. Same thing happened in the Heroes of Newerth beta, when people tried to drag DoTA terms over.

Eventually those who are too stubborn to transition become the minority, and rather than look like ********, they just conform.
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#4 Mar 25 2010 at 6:27 PM Rating: Default
As long as people can be understood and are tolerant of the backgrounds of other players, it doesn't really matter to me. In a deliciously grim way, I'm actually looking forward to the occasional run-in with the mouthy nubmuffin who missed the memo where it was announced that FFXIV is not FFXI-2. Generally speaking, the ones dumb enough to get territorial about something like that and lame enough to expect other people to go along with them are worth at least a couple of lulz.
#5 Mar 25 2010 at 6:40 PM Rating: Good
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Deal with problems as they arise... rather than predicting problems and perhaps creating them before they even begin.

Though I realize we're all starved for talking points at this point in time with no new info coming forth on the game, so I don't blame you for the topic.

I do think you are making a mountain out of a mole-hill though, and that it is something that will debunk itself over a short amount of time once the game is released.
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#6 Mar 25 2010 at 6:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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Zackary wrote:
People tried to drag WoW terms over to Aion beta when I was playing it, but that died off pretty quickly. Same thing happened in the Heroes of Newerth beta, when people tried to drag DoTA terms over.

Eventually those who are too stubborn to transition become the minority, and rather than look like @#%^s, they just conform.


Dear lord, I hope to get the term "DD" back. I'm so sick of hearing "DPS" used as a verb, an adjective, and a noun.

"Looking for a Damage Per Second" "I'll Damage Per Second" "Are you a good Damage Per Second?" "Yeah, I have great Damage Per Second gear" "Ok, we will need you to Damage Per Second fast, just stand with the other melee Damage Per Seconds; the ranged Damage Per Seconds are standing over that way." "Can I roll on Damage Per Second gear?"

Make it go away. ;;
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#7 Mar 25 2010 at 6:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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happybyday wrote:
Though I realize we're all starved for talking points at this point in time with no new info coming forth on the game, so I don't blame you for the topic.


This.

Given the rate SE gives out information (low) and the rate at which people post here (high), it's pretty much assumed that most of the threads in between lulls of new information will be of limited content at best.

It's kinda like a fish tank in here; we just wander aimlessly and fight with each other until some new food is thrown into the tank every so often.
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#8 Mar 25 2010 at 7:02 PM Rating: Good
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I do expect most people will conform to FFXIV standards, though I have to wonder how Japanese players will handle it. Will they use FFXI terminology and abbreviations or come up with new ones, and how will that affect what we use in turn?
#9 Mar 25 2010 at 7:17 PM Rating: Good
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I expect a lot of XI terms to become the norm, but that's it.

DD instead of DPS (thank god)
Hate instead of threat

etc etc.
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#10 Mar 25 2010 at 8:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Mikhalia wrote:
Dear lord, I hope to get the term "DD" back. I'm so sick of hearing "DPS" used as a verb, an adjective, and a noun.

"Looking for a Damage Per Second" "I'll Damage Per Second" "Are you a good Damage Per Second?" "Yeah, I have great Damage Per Second gear" "Ok, we will need you to Damage Per Second fast, just stand with the other melee Damage Per Seconds; the ranged Damage Per Seconds are standing over that way." "Can I roll on Damage Per Second gear?"

Make it go away. ;;


I played LoTRO after FFXI, and I agree with this post a million times. DPS is a stat, not a play style!
#11 Mar 25 2010 at 9:08 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
I do expect most people will conform to FFXIV standards, though I have to wonder how Japanese players will handle it. Will they use FFXI terminology and abbreviations or come up with new ones, and how will that affect what we use in turn?


Non-issue in this game. Assuming SE actually releases the game at the same time across the world, as they have stated they will, there won't be well over a year of culture and play style built into the game when we all have access. Most of the JP sayings, abbreviations, and prejudices are based on the NA PC release and what was happening in the game at that time. This time around NA and Europe will have the chance to impact FFXIV culture the same way JP did to FFXI back in 2001.
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#12 Mar 25 2010 at 9:51 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Though I realize we're all starved for talking points at this point in time with no new info coming forth on the game, so I don't blame you for the topic.


yeah pretty much this. :/
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#13 Mar 25 2010 at 10:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Mikhalia wrote:
It's kinda like a fish tank in here; we just wander aimlessly and fight with each other until some new food is thrown into the tank every so often.

Ok, this analogy is actually fairly good, heh.
#14 Mar 25 2010 at 11:01 PM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
Mikhalia wrote:
It's kinda like a fish tank in here; we just wander aimlessly and fight with each other until some new food is thrown into the tank every so often.

Ok, this analogy is actually fairly good, heh.


I told you I'd keep using them :)
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#15 Mar 25 2010 at 11:31 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia wrote:
Allegory wrote:
Mikhalia wrote:
It's kinda like a fish tank in here; we just wander aimlessly and fight with each other until some new food is thrown into the tank every so often.

Ok, this analogy is actually fairly good, heh.


I told you I'd keep using them :)


But if you use common sense to sum up our feelings, you pretty much end the thread. And ending the thread removes possibility for drama. And removing drama removes entertainment. And removing entertainment makes me bored. lol I want more threads about male FFXIV mithra dangit!
#16 Mar 26 2010 at 2:28 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
But if you use common sense to sum up our feelings, you pretty much end the thread. And ending the thread removes possibility for drama. And removing drama removes entertainment. And removing entertainment makes me bored. lol I want more threads about male FFXIV mithra dangit!


*sigh*

well, if you really want me too, i can go into a long-winded explanation of the american psychologist vs european ethologists views on the usefulness of subjectivity and natural environment vs the objectivity of a controlled lab settings and how it applies in an operationistic fashion to a discussion on the construct of gender in FF14. im pretty sure ill step on a few toes in the process, and many posts will be had by all.
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#17 Mar 26 2010 at 3:06 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
(-forexample- "Party for M2-3 looking for Manthra Monk, Rog. Tank, and taru any mage job.")


I have never shouted for races when making a group >.>
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#18 Mar 26 2010 at 3:19 AM Rating: Decent
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Sure, FFXI veterans will have their own lingo with eachother most likely, but I think the "proper" terms will be used most often in FFXIV. I really don't mind if that happens as long as people aren't pricks about it and respect people who don't know what the lingo means and are patient with them/explain things to them and don't assume they automatically know. The only thing I hope to God I don't see is what I saw in Aion. A huge influx of all the WoW people who invade games by their massive numbers. "In WoW this, In WoW that" and using WoW terms constantly. There are plenty of mature people in WoW and I have nothing against the game itself, but most people can agree what the general majority of people on WoW are a bit brash.

What I'm saying is, I rather people be using FFXI terms or comparing things to FFXI than to WoW and I rather FFXI terms be adopted rather than WoW terms. On that note, I fully welcome and advise any mature people from WoW to come over to FFXIV, I just hope they are respectful and I hope I don't see a global channel full of "In WoW this, in WoW that" like I did in Aion. In Aion, people were expected to know all the WoW terminology automatically. Everyone used it. If you didn't know what people were saying when they used certain terms you were generally classified a noob, and a lot of the time people would actually get upset at you about it. They just expected you to know all these WoW terms and it was very upsetting and frustrating as Aion was not WoW. I just hated that attitude.

I'm probably being over paranoid though, I have plenty of friends in FFXI who play WoW or played it and are totally cool people. Aion was sort of made to "Capture" the WoW crowd while FFXIV is being made to be the new Final Fantasy Flagship MMORPG. Even though it will be a lot more casual friendly, the Devs themselves said it will be a lot more like FFXI than WoW and retain the "Final Fantasy Feel".

Edited, Mar 26th 2010 2:23am by EndlessJourney
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#19 Mar 26 2010 at 4:25 AM Rating: Decent
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I have never shouted for races when making a group >.>


You must never have quested mages ballad.

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/quests.html?fquest=199
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#20 Mar 26 2010 at 11:19 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
1) The people who didn't play FFXI will be subject to some form of discrimination & prejudice ('Oh you're one of those people who doesn't understand FF MMO mechanics. n00b.' -forexample-)


If you're going to attempt to pick on someone because you played a video game that they didn't.. just lol.
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#21 Mar 26 2010 at 12:22 PM Rating: Decent
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mithrandrk wrote:
Quote:
I have never shouted for races when making a group >.>


You must never have quested mages ballad.

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/quests.html?fquest=199


Don't see what that has to do with your point.
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#22 Mar 26 2010 at 1:46 PM Rating: Good
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RedGalka wrote:
mithrandrk wrote:
Quote:
I have never shouted for races when making a group >.>


You must never have quested mages ballad.

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/quests.html?fquest=199


Don't see what that has to do with your point.


Walkthrough

* Talk to Vilatroire in the Watchtower, via Northern San d'Oria (C-7).
* Form a party of six people of the same race, then talk to him again to complete the quest.

Clicking links and reading them is hard.
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#23 Mar 26 2010 at 1:50 PM Rating: Default
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Wooosh.
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#24 Mar 26 2010 at 1:52 PM Rating: Good
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Hydragyrum wrote:
Mikhalia wrote:
Allegory wrote:
Mikhalia wrote:
It's kinda like a fish tank in here; we just wander aimlessly and fight with each other until some new food is thrown into the tank every so often.

Ok, this analogy is actually fairly good, heh.


I told you I'd keep using them :)


But if you use common sense to sum up our feelings, you pretty much end the thread. And ending the thread removes possibility for drama. And removing drama removes entertainment. And removing entertainment makes me bored. lol I want more threads about male FFXIV mithra dangit!


Actually, Allegory's post and my comment were in reference to another topic where he accused me of using too many analogies.

Quor wrote:
Quote:
But if you use common sense to sum up our feelings, you pretty much end the thread. And ending the thread removes possibility for drama. And removing drama removes entertainment. And removing entertainment makes me bored. lol I want more threads about male FFXIV mithra dangit!


*sigh*

well, if you really want me too, i can go into a long-winded explanation of the american psychologist vs european ethologists views on the usefulness of subjectivity and natural environment vs the objectivity of a controlled lab settings and how it applies in an operationistic fashion to a discussion on the construct of gender in FF14. im pretty sure ill step on a few toes in the process, and many posts will be had by all.


...and then admins will delete all of those posts like what happened in aforementioned other topic :)

EndlessJourney wrote:
Sure, FFXI veterans will have their own lingo with eachother most likely, but I think the "proper" terms will be used most often in FFXIV. I really don't mind if that happens as long as people aren't pricks about it and respect people who don't know what the lingo means and are patient with them/explain things to them and don't assume they automatically know. The only thing I hope to God I don't see is what I saw in Aion. A huge influx of all the WoW people who invade games by their massive numbers. "In WoW this, In WoW that" and using WoW terms constantly. There are plenty of mature people in WoW and I have nothing against the game itself, but most people can agree what the general majority of people on WoW are a bit brash.

What I'm saying is, I rather people be using FFXI terms or comparing things to FFXI than to WoW and I rather FFXI terms be adopted rather than WoW terms. On that note, I fully welcome and advise any mature people from WoW to come over to FFXIV, I just hope they are respectful and I hope I don't see a global channel full of "In WoW this, in WoW that" like I did in Aion. In Aion, people were expected to know all the WoW terminology automatically. Everyone used it. If you didn't know what people were saying when they used certain terms you were generally classified a noob, and a lot of the time people would actually get upset at you about it. They just expected you to know all these WoW terms and it was very upsetting and frustrating as Aion was not WoW. I just hated that attitude.

I'm probably being over paranoid though, I have plenty of friends in FFXI who play WoW or played it and are totally cool people. Aion was sort of made to "Capture" the WoW crowd while FFXIV is being made to be the new Final Fantasy Flagship MMORPG. Even though it will be a lot more casual friendly, the Devs themselves said it will be a lot more like FFXI than WoW and retain the "Final Fantasy Feel".

Edited, Mar 26th 2010 2:23am by EndlessJourney


Amusingly, I was a member of one guild on WoW which was comprised solely of members who had all played at least one other MMO prior to WoW. All the talk of "plat sellers" and "podding" and "bind points" and "HNMs"... You think it's confusing having all the lingo be from another game; try having -all- the lingo be from nearly every other game.
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#25 Mar 26 2010 at 10:26 PM Rating: Decent
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EndlessJourney wrote:
Sure, FFXI veterans will have their own lingo with eachother most likely, but I think the "proper" terms will be used most often in FFXIV. I really don't mind if that happens as long as people aren't pricks about it and respect people who don't know what the lingo means and are patient with them/explain things to them and don't assume they automatically know. The only thing I hope to God I don't see is what I saw in Aion. A huge influx of all the WoW people who invade games by their massive numbers. "In WoW this, In WoW that" and using WoW terms constantly. There are plenty of mature people in WoW and I have nothing against the game itself, but most people can agree what the general majority of people on WoW are a bit brash.

What I'm saying is, I rather people be using FFXI terms or comparing things to FFXI than to WoW and I rather FFXI terms be adopted rather than WoW terms. On that note, I fully welcome and advise any mature people from WoW to come over to FFXIV, I just hope they are respectful and I hope I don't see a global channel full of "In WoW this, in WoW that" like I did in Aion. In Aion, people were expected to know all the WoW terminology automatically. Everyone used it. If you didn't know what people were saying when they used certain terms you were generally classified a noob, and a lot of the time people would actually get upset at you about it. They just expected you to know all these WoW terms and it was very upsetting and frustrating as Aion was not WoW. I just hated that attitude.

I'm probably being over paranoid though, I have plenty of friends in FFXI who play WoW or played it and are totally cool people. Aion was sort of made to "Capture" the WoW crowd while FFXIV is being made to be the new Final Fantasy Flagship MMORPG. Even though it will be a lot more casual friendly, the Devs themselves said it will be a lot more like FFXI than WoW and retain the "Final Fantasy Feel".

So basicly you want to see "In FFXI this, in FFXI that" instead of "In WoW this, In WoW that". That is exactly the same as if ppl were constantly referring to WoW. I'd rather see people seeing FFXIV as new game, not as WoW nor FFXI.

Also what comes to terms used in game, i dont think there is any "proper" terms, there are just different terms. FFXI player would say that FFXI has those "proper" terms, WoW players would say that WoW has "proper" terms. I would say i dont give a sh*t, what does it matter what terms are used, people will learn to know the meaning of those terms anyways. Would be best to come up with new terms for FFXIV and cut that all bullsh*t and pointless fighting about which terms are better. I will most likely use terms from both WoW and FFXI, sometimes maybe just to see if people get annoyed by using "wrong" terms, as i dont really want to play with people who QQ about pointless things like terms.

Also I dont understand this attitude that FFXI players are somehow superior to WoW players, you can see that attitude in many many posts. I think that people who think like that are worse themselves. I've seen mature and not so mature people in both WoW and FFXI. I think FFXI had better community ingame than wow had, but i've really started to hate FFXI players more than WoW players on this kind of forums, thats mainly because so many FFXI players seem to think that they are somehow superior to WoW/any other mmorpg players.

I'm really looking forward to see ingame community on FFXIVs first months, im sure it will be WoW players vs FFXI players at least in some degree after launch. Can't wait to see some global chat fights about terms etc :D, at least will fill my ignore list quite fast there if it turns out to be like that lol.

Edited, Mar 27th 2010 12:33am by Mekir
#26 Mar 27 2010 at 2:07 AM Rating: Decent
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Mekir wrote:

So basicly you want to see "In FFXI this, in FFXI that" instead of "In WoW this, In WoW that". That is exactly the same as if ppl were constantly referring to WoW. I'd rather see people seeing FFXIV as new game, not as WoW nor FFXI.


Well yes, because this is a Square Enix game, carrying the Final Fantasy title. The FFXI community has been long awaiting it for a long time and looking forward to it and keeping informed much more than other MMORPG communities as a "whole", that's just a fact. Not only that but there are a lot of similarities between FFXI and FFXIV. No, it's not going to be FFXI 2.0 but it's definitely going to be the next stage in the "Final Fantasy Online" universe, so common logic and common sense would deem it more proper to use "Final Fantasy Online" terminologies, especially with a lot of shared similarities.

Quote:
Also what comes to terms used in game, i dont think there is any "proper" terms, there are just different terms.


I think you miss understood me here before you went on your little whine fest rant. Basically what I meant by proper terms is exactly what I said. Proper terms. If something is called a "leveling party" in FFXIV, then instead of confusing people and saying "exp pt?" you should say the "proper" term which the developers themselves named it, in this case "Leveling party?". Much like when people are proper in FFXI and use the auto-translate function or correct spelling to be proper and thorough with our Japanese friends and comrades.

Quote:
FFXI player would say that FFXI has those "proper" terms, WoW players would say that WoW has "proper" terms. I would say i dont give a sh*t, what does it matter what terms are used, people will learn to know the meaning of those terms anyways. Would be best to come up with new terms for FFXIV and cut that all bullsh*t and pointless fighting about which terms are better. I will most likely use terms from both WoW and FFXI, sometimes maybe just to see if people get annoyed by using "wrong" terms, as i dont really want to play with people who QQ about pointless things like terms.


Funny, but it seems you're the one QQing. Whiners whining about whiners is no better than the whiners themselves either. I just think if "simplistic" terms are to be used I don't want to see the WoW crowd take over and suddenly all the FFXI terms are deemed "Taboo" and no one knows what you're talking about. In the "Final Fantasy Online" community it would be more proper if "Final Fantasy Online" terms were adopted over another MMORPG by another developer that shares no similarities to previous generations as FFXI does. But that's just my opinion, I can't go out and change the world and what they do.

Quote:
Also I dont understand this attitude that FFXI players are somehow superior to WoW players


You answer your very own question several sentences down.

Quote:
you can see that attitude in many many posts. I think that people who think like that are worse themselves. I've seen mature and not so mature people in both WoW and FFXI. I think FFXI had better community ingame than wow had


And there's your answer. Yes, there's good and bad people in both games, but generally it's known that FFXI has a more "Serious Business" and mature approach to things. Not saying that plenty of WoW players aren't seriously hardcore, but in general the FFXI community had to go through more blood sweat and tears and had to rely on each other more, so the community developed a bit more maturely than WoW did as a "Whole". But like I said, there are plenty of exceptions to this rule in both games, that's where the mentality comes from though, you even knew this yourself sub consciously.

Quote:
but i've really started to hate FFXI players more than WoW players on this kind of forums, thats mainly because so many FFXI players seem to think that they are somehow superior to WoW/any other mmorpg players.


And now you're just going in circles, as well as proving WHY a lot of FFXI people act the way they do. Yes, FFXI folks do tend to have a "superiority complex" but when you act all bothered by it things just get worse. I actually look forward to this in FFXIV, because it will filter out the immature WoW people, and the mature WoW/other MMORPG people who know how to ignore it and just go along with the flow will be more-so welcomed into the community and hopefully, just hopefully, we'll have a fairly mature MMORPG.

Quote:
Can't wait to see some global chat fights about terms etc :D


Again proving further why the FFXI community is "elitist" and "superior" acting at times, things like this don't roll in FFXI and it is highly shunned upon. I don't see this kind of thing actually happening. Most of the FFXI community will just ignore it, get ****** off, and more or less do what a lot of the Japanese did in FFXI where they just quarantined themselves and would only do things with their own kind. I HOPE this isn't the case in FFXIV though.

Edited, Mar 27th 2010 1:10am by EndlessJourney

Edited, Mar 27th 2010 1:17am by EndlessJourney
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#27 Mar 27 2010 at 9:22 AM Rating: Decent
EndlessJourney wrote:
Again proving further why the FFXI community is "elitist" and "superior" acting at times, things like this don't roll in FFXI and it is highly shunned upon. I don't see this kind of thing actually happening. Most of the FFXI community will just ignore it, get ****** off, and more or less do what a lot of the Japanese did in FFXI where they just quarantined themselves and would only do things with their own kind. I HOPE this isn't the case in FFXIV though.


********* The only reason it didn't happen in FFXI was because there were no global channels. Jeuno/Whitegate shout fights were exceedingly common in FFXI. If you're going to base your position on a perception of the community, make sure it's accurate.
#28 Mar 27 2010 at 9:55 AM Rating: Good
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My thought on this is when I go into a game and say "Team" or "Party" and get a pm from someone correcting me and saying "We call it Group." Ok, it's group here, it's all the same thing with the same meaning but it's called group so, out of courtesy, you say group. Why argue about what the name of something is, the game itself sets the name. If someone says Galka instead of Rog, then I'm guessing that the people that don't know what a Galka is will ask instead of getting ***** and quitting. And ya only have to ask once to know forever. Problem solved.
Each game has it's own name for various things, it shakes out. If someone is gonna get all ***** and offended because the "wrong" name is used then well, they should probably get over themselves anyway. Civil disorder will only exist if someone really wants to be an *** about it. Most gamers I know are too laid back to really give a crap. Most i know would hear someone say Taru, ask what they mean, and reply "Oh, so a Taru is the same as a Lalafel in open chat, ok got it."
#29 Mar 27 2010 at 10:41 AM Rating: Default
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mithrandrk wrote:

2) The players who weren't around for FFXI will have to get used to using two names for all the races, jobs, etc. (-forexample- "Party for M2-3 looking for Manthra Monk, Rog. Tank, and taru any mage job.")

Do you think it's possible that we'll see some sort of civil disorder b/c SE is making so many things similar, yet different?


Anyone who looks for jobs based on race is stupid even in FFXI.

Specially in 14 where there will be no difference...
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#30 Mar 27 2010 at 6:56 PM Rating: Decent
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AureliusSir the Mundane wrote:
EndlessJourney wrote:
Again proving further why the FFXI community is "elitist" and "superior" acting at times, things like this don't roll in FFXI and it is highly shunned upon. I don't see this kind of thing actually happening. Most of the FFXI community will just ignore it, get ****** off, and more or less do what a lot of the Japanese did in FFXI where they just quarantined themselves and would only do things with their own kind. I HOPE this isn't the case in FFXIV though.


Bullsh*t. The only reason it didn't happen in FFXI was because there were no global channels. Jeuno/Whitegate shout fights were exceedingly common in FFXI. If you're going to base your position on a perception of the community, make sure it's accurate.


Common place? Give me a break. I've only seen it happen a handful of times in my entire 6 year FFXI career. But guess what happens when people DO actually do that? It's always a select few people who get told to shut up, and most people /blacklist them. It's not accepted, and it's not common place, stop being a hypocrite about accurate opinions.

Edited, Mar 27th 2010 5:56pm by EndlessJourney
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#31 Mar 27 2010 at 7:20 PM Rating: Decent
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EndlessJourney wrote:
Common place? Give me a break. I've only seen it happen a handful of times in my entire 6 year FFXI career. But guess what happens when people DO actually do that? It's always a select few people who get told to shut up, and most people /blacklist them.

Wow those rose tinted glasses sure do wonders to filter out the constant spam and channel fights that plagued major FFXI cities.
EndlessJourney wrote:
stop being a hypocrite about accurate opinions.

I'm not sure you quite know what either hypocrite or accurate means.
#32 Mar 27 2010 at 7:40 PM Rating: Decent
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EndlessJourney wrote:
AureliusSir the Mundane wrote:
EndlessJourney wrote:
Again proving further why the FFXI community is "elitist" and "superior" acting at times, things like this don't roll in FFXI and it is highly shunned upon. I don't see this kind of thing actually happening. Most of the FFXI community will just ignore it, get ****** off, and more or less do what a lot of the Japanese did in FFXI where they just quarantined themselves and would only do things with their own kind. I HOPE this isn't the case in FFXIV though.


Bullsh*t. The only reason it didn't happen in FFXI was because there were no global channels. Jeuno/Whitegate shout fights were exceedingly common in FFXI. If you're going to base your position on a perception of the community, make sure it's accurate.


Common place? Give me a break. I've only seen it happen a handful of times in my entire 6 year FFXI career. But guess what happens when people DO actually do that? It's always a select few people who get told to shut up, and most people /blacklist them. It's not accepted, and it's not common place, stop being a hypocrite about accurate opinions.

Edited, Mar 27th 2010 5:56pm by EndlessJourney
So did you play on a single-player server or something?

I'm sorry, but you're absolutely delusional if you think that a massive crowd of people isn't going to naturally spark the growth of conflict. Whenever you amass a group of people, there will be conflict about SOMETHING.

I remember Gilgamesh shouts were just about as spammy and whiney as you could get. But instead of people whining about it and crying and blacklisting people, some of us actually had intellectual debate about many a topic.

This eventually even sparked an entire linkshell where those of us who wished to have friendly, yet aggressive debate could chat amongst ourselves just out of respect for those who were legitimately trying to trade.



This story aside, you're lying through your teeth and you know it. Stop that.
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#33 Mar 27 2010 at 7:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Might I ask, Allegory and Zackery. How long did you play FFXI for and when did you quit? Also, if I may be so bold, what were your /playtime? Just curious.

Edited, Mar 27th 2010 6:57pm by EndlessJourney
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#34 Mar 27 2010 at 8:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Well let's see. I got XI from my girlfriend as a birthday gift. Since my first post on this site was in 2004, and my birthday is in December, I'm going to go ahead and guesstimate I got it in December of 2003.

I quit last year around May.

I don't have my account anymore, so I don't know what my playtime is, but I have Samurai, Ninja, Bard, Beastmaster, Ranger, Warrior, and Monk at 75, and was well into my second stage Amanomurakumo, so I'm just going to go with "lots."







Not that you could even play the "I've played longer than you" card here anyway considering this has absolutely nothing to do with the game itself and moreso with the fact that community, regardless of the community in particular you're talking about, has it's own conflict.
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Did you lose faith?
Yes, I lost faith in the powers that be.
But in doing so I came across the will to disagree.
And I gave up. Yes, I gave up, and then I gave in.
But I take responsibility for every single sin. ♪ ♫


Thank god I stopped playing MMOs.
#35 Mar 27 2010 at 8:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Zackary wrote:
Not that you could even play the "I've played longer than you" card here anyway considering this has absolutely nothing to do with the game itself and moreso with the fact that community, regardless of the community in particular you're talking about, has it's own conflict.


I swear the stupidity on Alla grows so large some times that it's hard to even bare with. I wasn't even trying to play the "I've played longer than you" card at all, I was wondering when you started and how much of the game you experienced to formulate such opinions and when you might have stopped, maybe you forgot how some things were.

It's always been a taboo thing in FFXI to start shout wars. They do happen, and they use to happen more frequently, but it was never really accepted. If it was a intellectual debate every now and then people would discuss it and I never said something like that is bad, but the mindless flaming and arguing non stop people get annoyed with very quickly on FFXI and would get told to shut up most commonly or blacklisted, especially now days.
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#36 Mar 27 2010 at 8:33 PM Rating: Decent
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EndlessJourney wrote:
Zackary wrote:
Not that you could even play the "I've played longer than you" card here anyway considering this has absolutely nothing to do with the game itself and moreso with the fact that community, regardless of the community in particular you're talking about, has it's own conflict.


I swear the stupidity on Alla grows so large some times that it's hard to even bare with. I wasn't even trying to play the "I've played longer than you" card at all, I was wondering when you started and how much of the game you experienced to formulate such opinions and when you might have stopped, maybe you forgot how some things were.

It's always been a taboo thing in FFXI to start shout wars. They do happen, and they use to happen more frequently, but it was never really accepted. If it was a intellectual debate every now and then people would discuss it and I never said something like that is bad, but the mindless flaming and arguing non stop people get annoyed with very quickly on FFXI and would get told to shut up most commonly or blacklisted, especially now days.
I fail to see how being told to shut up and being blacklisted equates to it not happening at all.

The fact of the matter is, maybe just because it didn't happen where YOU played doesn't mean it didn't happen at all. Don't be ridiculous.
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But in doing so I came across the will to disagree.
And I gave up. Yes, I gave up, and then I gave in.
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Thank god I stopped playing MMOs.
#37 Mar 27 2010 at 8:38 PM Rating: Decent
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Zackary wrote:
EndlessJourney wrote:
Zackary wrote:
Not that you could even play the "I've played longer than you" card here anyway considering this has absolutely nothing to do with the game itself and moreso with the fact that community, regardless of the community in particular you're talking about, has it's own conflict.


I swear the stupidity on Alla grows so large some times that it's hard to even bare with. I wasn't even trying to play the "I've played longer than you" card at all, I was wondering when you started and how much of the game you experienced to formulate such opinions and when you might have stopped, maybe you forgot how some things were.

It's always been a taboo thing in FFXI to start shout wars. They do happen, and they use to happen more frequently, but it was never really accepted. If it was a intellectual debate every now and then people would discuss it and I never said something like that is bad, but the mindless flaming and arguing non stop people get annoyed with very quickly on FFXI and would get told to shut up most commonly or blacklisted, especially now days.
I fail to see how being told to shut up and being blacklisted equates to it not happening at all.

The fact of the matter is, maybe just because it didn't happen where YOU played doesn't mean it didn't happen at all. Don't be ridiculous.


I never said it didn't happen at all I just said that sort of thing doesn't commonly happen in FFXI like it does in a lot of other games, especially now days. I don't know? Maybe my server is an acception? But for a good while now if you try to start flame wars/arguments/drama in whitegate people usually blacklist those people or tell them to shut up, as they like keeping the /shout channel clear for important things. Again, it happened more frequently when the game was newer, but even then it's nothing compared to most MMORPG's with global channels, and yes that's probably why and why global channels can be a bad idea, it just turns into /b/.
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#38 Mar 27 2010 at 8:54 PM Rating: Decent
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EndlessJourney wrote:
Zackary wrote:
EndlessJourney wrote:
Zackary wrote:
Not that you could even play the "I've played longer than you" card here anyway considering this has absolutely nothing to do with the game itself and moreso with the fact that community, regardless of the community in particular you're talking about, has it's own conflict.


I swear the stupidity on Alla grows so large some times that it's hard to even bare with. I wasn't even trying to play the "I've played longer than you" card at all, I was wondering when you started and how much of the game you experienced to formulate such opinions and when you might have stopped, maybe you forgot how some things were.

It's always been a taboo thing in FFXI to start shout wars. They do happen, and they use to happen more frequently, but it was never really accepted. If it was a intellectual debate every now and then people would discuss it and I never said something like that is bad, but the mindless flaming and arguing non stop people get annoyed with very quickly on FFXI and would get told to shut up most commonly or blacklisted, especially now days.
I fail to see how being told to shut up and being blacklisted equates to it not happening at all.

The fact of the matter is, maybe just because it didn't happen where YOU played doesn't mean it didn't happen at all. Don't be ridiculous.


I never said it didn't happen at all I just said that sort of thing doesn't commonly happen in FFXI like it does in a lot of other games, especially now days. I don't know? Maybe my server is an acception? But for a good while now if you try to start flame wars/arguments/drama in whitegate people usually blacklist those people or tell them to shut up, as they like keeping the /shout channel clear for important things. Again, it happened more frequently when the game was newer, but even then it's nothing compared to most MMORPG's with global channels, and yes that's probably why and why global channels can be a bad idea, it just turns into /b/.
I really fail to see the point you're trying to make. You're saying "It doesn't happen that often!" and we're telling you that it does and has in our experiences.


However, the argument against global channels is a really weak one. Wherever people gather, people will argue openly. Maybe it isn't a constant thing, but it'll happen regardless of whether or not you can only see it in one town, or all of them.

I, personally, love global channels. WoW was my favorite take on the idea yet. General channels in each "area" and trade chat. (Along with optional, user-made global channels, which were fabulous for communicating with friends who weren't in your group/guild.) Trade chat was a great idea, and just because some people used it to whine didn't mean they were the majority. The rest of the ACTUAL TRADING 9 times out of 10 drowned them out anyway.

Edit for typos.

Edited, Mar 27th 2010 10:55pm by Zackary
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But in doing so I came across the will to disagree.
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Thank god I stopped playing MMOs.
#39 Mar 27 2010 at 9:23 PM Rating: Good
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If we get male miqo'tes, will we get the option to have a pants-bulge slider?
#40 Mar 27 2010 at 9:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Zackary wrote:
I really fail to see the point you're trying to make. You're saying "It doesn't happen that often!" and we're telling you that it does and has in our experiences.


However, the argument against global channels is a really weak one. Wherever people gather, people will argue openly. Maybe it isn't a constant thing, but it'll happen regardless of whether or not you can only see it in one town, or all of them.


Global Channels are a bad idea in my opinion because it encourages people to just speak randomly any time something hits their mind. It also give the game world itself less of a feeling of "Regions" and areas and just makes it feel like one big playground. I like the idea of actually having your "AOE" chat chat channels area based as I said, so they retain more of a feel of how do you say... "Uniqueness". It makes it feel more like a Online World where if you want to talk in certain areas you have to go to them.

Sure, there needs to be ways for people to find parties easily, group easily and find each other easily but I don't like the idea of open chat for that being used in ALL areas. That many people on one channel, people will get bored and start random arguments/spam/flame wars. That is the main reason games like WoW/Aion/ETC have had more of those than FFXI.

But on the argument of how often it happens in Whitegate and Jeuno than in the global channels on other games you really are delusional yourself if you think it happens as often on FFXI as it does on those games, because it just doesn't. I'm sorry 2-3 of you feel this way, but it's not true and is exaggerated to say or think so. Once again, it happens, has happened, use to happen more frequently, but not on the scale of most MMORPG's with a global channel. I use to see those global channel flame wars/arguments/spam/stupidity every single time I signed on Aion and a little less but still prevalent on WoW. I've not seen one in whitegate in all honesty for at least 6 months or so, other than random people saying a few words to each other in whitegate about one thing or another.
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#41 Mar 28 2010 at 1:25 AM Rating: Decent
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EndlessJourney wrote:
But on the argument of how often it happens in Whitegate and Jeuno than in the global channels on other games you really are delusional yourself if you think it happens as often on FFXI as it does on those games, because it just doesn't. I'm sorry 2-3 of you feel this way, but it's not true and is exaggerated to say or think so. Once again, it happens, has happened, use to happen more frequently, but not on the scale of most MMORPG's with a global channel. I use to see those global channel flame wars/arguments/spam/stupidity every single time I signed on Aion and a little less but still prevalent on WoW. I've not seen one in whitegate in all honesty for at least 6 months or so, other than random people saying a few words to each other in whitegate about one thing or another.
Okay? I wasn't arguing that it didn't happen more often when global channels are introduced. My point was that global channels are often far more populated, which leaves little room for attention-seeking crybabies to get what they want. (Attention)

And even if you are going to use this as a singular excuse to argue against them, the benefits of global channels far outweigh this one single downside. One cannot rightfully argue that having a global trade network is far more effective at moving wares than having it bound to towns singularly, especially in a game where an auction house may or may not be present. Additionally, you seem to be all in favor of banlisting those who use channels inappropriately, so you should have no trouble agreeing that this logic should bridge into a game where there are global networks, which leaves you with not a lot to dislike about the idea.

I understand that it's your opinion and that you are entitled to it, but admittedly you are coming off as unreasonably stubborn, and very seldom throughout this thread have you offered much beyond a "NU UH" argument.
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Yes, I lost faith in the powers that be.
But in doing so I came across the will to disagree.
And I gave up. Yes, I gave up, and then I gave in.
But I take responsibility for every single sin. ♪ ♫


Thank god I stopped playing MMOs.
#42 Mar 28 2010 at 1:53 AM Rating: Decent
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EndlessJourney wrote:
Might I ask, Allegory and Zackery. How long did you play FFXI for and when did you quit? Also, if I may be so bold, what were your /playtime? Just curious.

A between a year and two, and I quit quite long ago. If you're going to pretend that matters then I'll apologize in advance for giving you far too much credit.

FFXI has just as much ********** as every major MMORPG out there. Pretending otherwise is pure fanboism.
#43 Mar 28 2010 at 7:11 PM Rating: Decent
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You make it sound like FFXI players are monsters...
A lot of FFXI players are actually really helpful. I'm sure they'd explain instead of saying "noob" and stuff.
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#44 Mar 29 2010 at 2:35 AM Rating: Good
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Izaac, saying players aren't "holier than thou" (one extreme side) doesn't imply they are the devil (the other extreme side).
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#45 Mar 29 2010 at 2:53 AM Rating: Decent
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And let's be honest, XI players are notorious in the MMO community for their "holier than thou" which can be both a good thing and a bad thing.


Yeah, they're helpful to other people who play their game sometimes, but god **** you better watch out if you don't.
____________________________
Did you lose faith?
Yes, I lost faith in the powers that be.
But in doing so I came across the will to disagree.
And I gave up. Yes, I gave up, and then I gave in.
But I take responsibility for every single sin. ♪ ♫


Thank god I stopped playing MMOs.
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