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Anyone else think (Concerning FFXIV Classes)Follow

#1 Mar 28 2010 at 10:12 AM Rating: Default
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That the fact everyone can play all jobs at anytime by changing anywhere is stupid?

Whatever happened to Exclusive classes per character like the old Final Fantasy, I hope they make it once you pick 1 discipline you cant pick the others but your allowed to pick any class within that discipline.

Because it will end up with everyone with the same classes Like FF13.
#2 Mar 28 2010 at 10:29 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah, except when leveling one class to cap takes 1 year and not 50 hours like in Single Player Game, everyone will have the same classes in the end.... in 20 years.

In FFXI most players had 2-4 jobs at max 5-6 years after the release of the game. Some had only 1-2, some had all of them (0,0001%)... but the problem you're describing didn't exist.

And being able to change anywhere vs. being able to change only in town does not change anything. Most people will still have 2-4 jobs leveled years after the game goes live, except if SE decides to make it so you can level any job to cap within a month of playing- which I don't see happening, if they want to keep their customers paying.
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#3 Mar 28 2010 at 10:57 AM Rating: Good
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I Wouldnt worry all to much. Just to use WoW as an example. There your able to get to lvl 80 at this point pretty easy. About a month and even with that most people only have 2-4 level capped chars running around.
#4 Mar 28 2010 at 10:58 AM Rating: Decent
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Guess you didn't play FFXI...

The way it works is even more balanced it seems than XI, as in I think skills are capped based on other skills. So you could be the MASTER of archery, or blend archery and swordsmanship but neither can hit the highest rank.

Kinda like the crafting system in XI. you could levle any craft to 60, but hafter 60 you only had 40 points to distribute between all crafts. so you could have 1 100 craft, or 2 80s, etc.
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#5 Mar 28 2010 at 11:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Best way I can think of is FF2, but havnt played that since it was re-released as part of Origins for PS1. Don't remember exactly but when leveling your skills didn't other skills decrease as you leveled another skill. So as you got more proficient with currect weapon, the other would decrease. Think it was every 2 lvls gained, 1 lvl decreased? Could be wrong here its been so long.
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#6 Mar 28 2010 at 12:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Doesn't concern me in the slightest, the game will be balanced via the beta process.

What does worry me is that SE will ***** up the class dynamics whith future expansions by releasing too many similar classes.
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#7 Mar 28 2010 at 12:51 PM Rating: Good
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Asyrian wrote:
Best way I can think of is FF2, but havnt played that since it was re-released as part of Origins for PS1. Don't remember exactly but when leveling your skills didn't other skills decrease as you leveled another skill. So as you got more proficient with currect weapon, the other would decrease. Think it was every 2 lvls gained, 1 lvl decreased? Could be wrong here its been so long.


I don't think skills decreased at all in FF2. Been a long time for me, too, though, so I may be wrong. Vagrant Story had a level/delevel balance system in place, and it worked pretty well.

That said, I'll be pretty upset if they put in a "skill atrophy" system. It'd make maintaining your character's balance a nightmare. "/p <Austreven> I absolutely can't cast Raise, 'cause if I get a skillup it'll drop my Y skill level that I need for Z job. Sorry, guys."

Also note: If this system is a more refined version of the system in FF2, I'll be really **** happy. That system was a brilliant concept, but the balance was terrible. If they sorted the balance out, it'd rock as the base character advancement mechanic for an MMO.
#8 Mar 28 2010 at 12:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

The way it works is even more balanced it seems than XI, as in I think skills are capped based on other skills. So you could be the MASTER of archery, or blend archery and swordsmanship but neither can hit the highest rank


I think in the most recent interview released, they've stated something along the lines that you will not be limited to one class, that you'll be able to hit cap with all skills... well, maybe not stated, but they've heavily implied this. We'll have to wait and see - after FFXI's fairly successful job system (aside from balancing issues), I don't think SE would go the route of limiting people to the number of classes they'd be allowed to have on a character. I am still far more attached to my FFXI toon that I haven't played in over two years than I am to any of my lvl 80 WoW toons that I've played - even my hunter, that I've played the longest (in fact, I'm more attached to my hunter's pet than the character itself). If SE wants to create that same attachment and keep people playing as long as they have FFXI, they won't have an atrophy type system in place.
#9 Mar 28 2010 at 1:51 PM Rating: Excellent
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MissSummoner wrote:
That the fact everyone can play all jobs at anytime by changing anywhere is stupid?

Whatever happened to Exclusive classes per character like the old Final Fantasy, I hope they make it once you pick 1 discipline you cant pick the others but your allowed to pick any class within that discipline.

Because it will end up with everyone with the same classes Like FF13.


SE realized that exclusive classes per character is too limiting and I agree. I never liked having a dedicated healer in single players FFs because they were useless 90% of the time, whacking the mobs with a wand for 8 damage every turn and curing in between battles.

I like SE's versatility with limitations approach. You can't do everything all at once but you can adapt to whatever situation you're in and be effective. It's pretty slick and it works well in FF13 in my opinion. I want all of my party members to be equally useful while still having healing, tanking and buffing capability.

In FFXI it's no fun showing up to events as a WHM or PLD when a WHM or PLD isn't needed 90% of the time. It would be much more fun to be able to play a DD class 90% of the time and switch to a healer or tank when it's time to fight something that requires it.

In FFXIV I like how tanks will be good DDs and healers can double as effective nukers in the right situations. This way even if you're only highly skilled in one class you're still useful enough in any situation to have an enjoyable time.

So I don't think it's stupid. I think it's a step in the right direction.
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#10 Mar 28 2010 at 4:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Guess you didn't play FFXI...

The way it works is even more balanced it seems than XI, as in I think skills are capped based on other skills. So you could be the MASTER of archery, or blend archery and swordsmanship but neither can hit the highest rank.

Kinda like the crafting system in XI. you could levle any craft to 60, but hafter 60 you only had 40 points to distribute between all crafts. so you could have 1 100 craft, or 2 80s, etc.


Umm yes i have i was on it for 2 years thank you very much, & yeah i thought it would turn out like this too since i did read it somewhere on the FFXIVWiki forums. Well thats good to know.
#11 Mar 28 2010 at 4:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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First off, I don't wish be locked @ 1 discipline a character. S/E will most likely be charging for additional characters again and I refuse to have to purchase numerous mules to try/play the different classes.

I would much rather beable to change jobs anywhere rather then sit there doing nothing waiting for a teammate to run all the way to town to change jobs and then come meet up like we did in FFXI.

I also doubt people will be walking around with full equiptment for more then 2-3 classes at most. It would be a waste of whatever limited inventory space they have.

I personally dont see this as a problem. If anything, it will reduce party wait times.



Edited, Mar 28th 2010 7:13pm by Faaeng
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#12 Mar 29 2010 at 12:13 PM Rating: Decent
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Lol no matter what SE does, someone somewhere will have a dislike about it. Its how it goes, if you really wanna play the game, you got to just role with it. FFXIV is a whole new deal, its not XI, or any other MMO. That just goes to say...this is also still Alpha Beta tests phase, yes? There pl-enty of time for makeovers/change etc. They could re-do the whole thing....remember they pretty much did this in XI? The main website doesnt mean diddly really, its just something to keep us into buying it. Lets just see whats in store with this part of the game. It's going to be this **** :P period. lol
#13 Mar 29 2010 at 1:27 PM Rating: Excellent
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The point is that no matter where your explorations in FFXI/XIV take you and no matter how many different classes you try, you're developing one character. I'd much rather see one character grow and develop who I can become attached to, rather than making a bunch of throwaway characters each time I want to try another class.

But the reason other MMOs don't do this is because leveling up is tied into story/questing/etc. Just switching your class in WoW with the same character wouldn't work, because you couldn't redo all the quests you did at the start, forcing you to simply grind mobs. FFXI handles this by making experience only available through combat, so you can repeat the same leveling progression without anything else getting in the way. The best part of that, of course, is that you only have to do those irritating missions once. IMO, this makes the feeling of accomplishment when you do finish a major story arc that much better, because you aren't going through it over and over just because you wanted to try out White Mage.
#14 Mar 29 2010 at 1:36 PM Rating: Decent
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I agree with what you say for sure. And instead of exp rewards for story progression, perhaps it will again just be items/gear of similar brand for individual disciples?
#15 Mar 29 2010 at 2:40 PM Rating: Decent
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That the fact everyone can play all jobs at anytime by changing anywhere is stupid?


Doubtful. If you made some event in FFXI where the reward was a nomad moogle you could summon to check dbox or change jobs I'm almost certain 100% of the playerbase would be out questing it day one. I'm also inclined to believe that certain classes will be exclusive similar to older FF games. You don't have to specialize in a certain discipline, but doing so will probably allow you to access abilities that you would not normally be able to use.

Quote:
Whatever happened to Exclusive classes per character like the old Final Fantasy, I hope they make it once you pick 1 discipline you cant pick the others but your allowed to pick any class within that discipline.


Compare it to FFXI. WHM job has healing, enhancing and divine magic skills. Specializing in healing might make higher tier healing spells available. If you focus on enhancing magic then you might have physical or magical damage shielding capability. Divine magic users might be more capable of nuking with light damage compared to the other two. I'm hoping this is what they are implementing into this game and no, I don't think its stupid. It actually sounds alot like the talent system in WoW and tons of other older RPG games.

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#16 Mar 31 2010 at 10:57 PM Rating: Decent
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That the fact everyone can play all jobs at anytime by changing anywhere is stupid?


hmmmm... you mean like running back to town and changing your job..*cough* I mean equipment?

Deja vu? @_@
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#17 Apr 01 2010 at 3:40 AM Rating: Decent
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MissSummoner wrote:
That the fact everyone can play all jobs at anytime by changing anywhere is stupid?

Whatever happened to Exclusive classes per character like the old Final Fantasy, I hope they make it once you pick 1 discipline you cant pick the others but your allowed to pick any class within that discipline.

Because it will end up with everyone with the same classes Like FF13.


I do not think this at all! I know this is gonna get overly geeky now howeva "the bond" you get from playing one character instead of 9 or 10 from other MMO's is awesome. The fact you can have diffrent classes on the one character makes me very happy indeed. I would hate levelling a character to max level and then going ah ok not much to do on ym dear friend Klick atm now lets roll another char. *WOW springs to mind* not that i hated it but i always had my rogue as my little baby ;)
The fact that I will have Klick all the time again just as in FFXI well just makes this lil geek happy :)
I hope others feel the same and i look forward to playing with some of you in the new lands
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#18 Apr 01 2010 at 6:13 AM Rating: Good
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I am also in favor of only having one character that can switch jobs. I always hated MMOs where I needed to have 20 alts just to experience more than one play style. Outside of my main I really didn't have any connection to my alts at all. FFXI was never like that.

As far as how I think skills/character development will work is this: I think we will see something like how BLU works in XI. Once we learn a skill for a job, we'll be able to "equip" it on another job, for a cost. Maybe by equipping specific skills we will get titles like if I my main job is Gladiator, and I equip the Conjurer's Cure, my title is now Paladin.... maybe

Idunno if skills learned for the job you are currently playing will cost, I would think no. Only skills from other jobs would require a "cost" to use them.

It's all just guesses, but I'm having fun talking about it with y'all! good stuff.



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#19 Apr 01 2010 at 8:32 AM Rating: Good
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But the reason other MMOs don't do this is because leveling up is tied into story/questing/etc. Just switching your class in WoW with the same character wouldn't work, because you couldn't redo all the quests you did at the start, forcing you to simply grind mobs. FFXI handles this by making experience only available through combat, so you can repeat the same leveling progression without anything else getting in the way. The best part of that, of course, is that you only have to do those irritating missions once. IMO, this makes the feeling of accomplishment when you do finish a major story arc that much better, because you aren't going through it over and over just because you wanted to try out White Mage.

You hit the nail on the head, exactly right!
#20 Apr 01 2010 at 11:33 PM Rating: Decent
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no limits.period.
#21 Apr 02 2010 at 8:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Forcing people to stick with a choice they made 6+ months ago isn't fun its terrible. Its all because they want my choice to "matter" they say. To **** with that I decide what matters **** it.
#22 Apr 02 2010 at 10:33 AM Rating: Good
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Now if we are talking about a single character being able to switch jobs/classes, would we also include the sub-job/class system too? I imagine their implementation of the sub-job system was the main reason for a single character being able to change jobs in FFXI.

While I would like it to remain a single character being able to switch classes, I could do without sub-jobs/classes as a whole. It could be very beneficial and even make some jobs more enjoyable to a player but it also pigeonholed a couple main jobs to primarily be their sub-job.
#23 Apr 02 2010 at 9:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
But the reason other MMOs don't do this is because leveling up is tied into story/questing/etc. Just switching your class in WoW with the same character wouldn't work, because you couldn't redo all the quests you did at the start, forcing you to simply grind mobs. FFXI handles this by making experience only available through combat, so you can repeat the same leveling progression without anything else getting in the way. The best part of that, of course, is that you only have to do those irritating missions once. IMO, this makes the feeling of accomplishment when you do finish a major story arc that much better, because you aren't going through it over and over just because you wanted to try out White Mage.


As true as this is, there is nothing to suggest that repeatable quests aren't an option either, the storyline in FF11 was based around missions the quests were something totally different.

I kind of get the feeling that this is what the guildleve system is all about.

Edited, Apr 2nd 2010 11:48pm by Diakar
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#24 Apr 03 2010 at 12:55 AM Rating: Decent
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I've always liked the fact that in FFXI, I only had one character. I played FFXI for 6 years, and quit FFXI back in December, but I actually took the time to run my character to my favorite place in game, put on my favorite combination of gear, and take a picture of my character waving goodbye. That is something I haven't done with any of my characters in WoW, and I've had three seperate accounts.

After spending so much time looking at my Samurai, I began to feel like that character was a small part of me. I played many characters in WoW, and had fun playing the game, but they were just another character. Just a blob of pixels. My FFXI character was also a blob of pixels, but it became a special blob of pixels.

Aside from all the game mechanics that I think are beneficial from having one character verses several characters, I just think it helps to build a little bit of a bond to your character. It was kinda hard for me to stop playing, and that's what SE wants. They want me to play that extra month, they don't care if it's because I'm having fun, or because I'll miss my friends, or because I've invested too much time in my special blob of pixels to abandon it yet.
#25 Apr 03 2010 at 1:13 AM Rating: Decent
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I think of of the biggest issues with allowing someone to switch jobs on one character in an MMO is inventory space.

In 14 we will initially start with 80 slots, from what I have heard. (Don't quote me.) But even that much inventory space can be taken up easily when you're carrying gear for 6 different jobs, and for FFXIV, different Weapons/Builds.
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#26 Apr 03 2010 at 6:08 AM Rating: Default
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On the one hand it's nice to be able to switch jobs on one character because it helps avoid missing out on trying all the classes/jobs.

But on the other hand it has the opposite effect concerning races, it's a pretty big incentive to not make another character and thus an incentive not to try out all the races the game has to offer.

Hopefully they will find a way to afford players the oppurtunity to try out all of both because frankly it kind of sucks missing out on 4/5ths of the race options of the game.
#27 Apr 04 2010 at 8:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
While I would like it to remain a single character being able to switch classes, I could do without sub-jobs/classes as a whole. It could be very beneficial and even make some jobs more enjoyable to a player but it also pigeonholed a couple main jobs to primarily be their sub-job.


I am not sure I agree with this. I want to have some sort of benefit that carries over from other jobs that I have already leveled (Ideally some limited choices of skills and/or abilities). If this is not the case, I am basically just the shell of a name and body that can play an entirely separate class depending on the weapon I have equipped.
#28 Apr 05 2010 at 1:14 AM Rating: Decent
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I am not sure I agree with this. I want to have some sort of benefit that carries over from other jobs that I have already leveled (Ideally some limited choices of skills and/or abilities). If this is not the case, I am basically just the shell of a name and body that can play an entirely separate class depending on the weapon I have equipped.


Agreed whole-heartedly.
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