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Nvision Issue 4 Spring 2010Follow

#1 Apr 02 2010 at 12:21 AM Rating: Good
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http://www.eorzeapedia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3209&hilit=nvision

A bit more information I stumbled upon. May get taken down eventually so catch it while you can.
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#2 Apr 02 2010 at 1:22 AM Rating: Decent
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it looks like we would need to purchase NVIDIA 3DVISON near in future


Edited, Apr 2nd 2010 3:23am by hexid
#3 Apr 02 2010 at 1:45 AM Rating: Decent
3D is great and all, but I don't really care. I just want the game
#4 Apr 02 2010 at 2:40 AM Rating: Decent
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I honestly don't see what the big deal is over 3D. I mean, for starters, 3D gives me huge migranes, and I'm sure there is some long term damage that can occur =/
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#5 Apr 02 2010 at 4:08 AM Rating: Decent
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I agree with the above poster.

I remember being excited by the idea of 3D when I was young, but soon discovering that it didn't match my expectations at all.

Rather than being an immersive experience it was more of a gimmick that reminded me that what I was observing was a fantasy. In the end it was sort of like a premise I couldn't follow because I saw through it.

I'm struggling for a metaphor here, and the best thing I can come up with is a magic act where you already know how all the tricks work. You can still appreciate what the magician is going for, and the sleight of hand required to pull off the trick. But in the end you miss out on the intended result. Which is to be fooled and unable to see just how your eyes have been decieved.

With 3D effects, for me at least, there has always been this sense that I'm seeing the editors notes rather than observing the work as it's presented.

I don't know, I can't seem to articulate this properly, but what I mean to say is that 3D effects detract more than add to a given piece.

But maybe I'm biased, I threw up the first time I played F-Zero, so I might just be particularly succeptible to special effects or something.
#6 Apr 02 2010 at 5:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think that is the good thing with 3D though, it won't be forced on anyone. The people who like it will be able to get it, and those who don't can avoid using it. At the same time I think 3D is the future, as the industry learns new ways of implementing it and develop new systems for better performance (To avoid people getting headaches and making it look better, without glasses etc) I think more and more people will come to enjoy it.

Also I think 3D can be something that requires some more getting used to than things like HD. This is something new for the eyes and it might be something we need to get used to more to enjoy. I think it is important that larger companies, like SE, try to implement 3D support for their games simply because it will be the fastest way to help move the 3D industry forward, to make it something everyone can enjoy. Especially since, like I said, it is optional, and I doubt they would focus so much on it that other aspects of the game would in any way suffer. So it feels like a win/win situation, to me at least.
#7 Apr 02 2010 at 6:08 AM Rating: Decent
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"3D" is being investigated as a possible option, and thats all well and good but I would choose not to have it myself. "3D" isn't 3D at all its just cheap trickery at the moment and not so far removed from what existed in the 1950's.
I do not want to see content for FFxiv developed that makes no sense if you are not using those rediculous spectacles. "3D" has yet to prove itself to be more than a passing fad just like the VR of the early 90's and the 3D of old.

Edited, Apr 2nd 2010 8:09am by NumptyHunter
#8 Apr 02 2010 at 7:26 AM Rating: Good
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I'm not sure why everyone really dislikes 3D. I mean, yes, its new technology and still needs some work, but have you actually seen it in practice? I looked at a setup at PAX last weekend and I was impressed enough to consider investing. Its far improved from its origin, and is very close to becoming a game mechanic rather than just a gimmick. It really does look good.

As an aside I certainly understand that it gives people headaches. Its overwhelming to the senses and it really doesn't make sense to your brain, which still wants to view a screen as a 2D medium. I find that if you let yourself relax and avoid actively trying to notice the 3D effect it causes less strain, but thats just me.
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#9 Apr 02 2010 at 7:56 AM Rating: Good
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Skeptic wrote:
I honestly don't see what the big deal is over 3D. I mean, for starters, 3D gives me huge migranes, and I'm sure there is some long term damage that can occur =/


Remember the virtual boy?

The big deal is trying to take new steps to further technology otherwise it's still very hit or miss.
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#10 Apr 02 2010 at 8:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I'm not sure why everyone really dislikes 3D.


Perhaps I can clarify this, it is not that people hate 3D its that we don't really need it.
Although on another level people may get headaches or find wearing the glasses annoying, the other major thing is we don't want a 2 tier game where unless you play in 3D you can't interact with some of the games content and are therefore forced to buy into what is still a fledgling technology. Take away those concerns and I think a 3D FFxiv would go down much better.
#11 Apr 02 2010 at 8:45 AM Rating: Decent
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I certainly won't be partaking in this. I want HD, not 3D. I do think it's good that Squeenix is giving the option some life, but it's not for me. I just want the game to look as flawless as possible, run like a champ and have an incredible storyline/mechanics to match.
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#12 Apr 02 2010 at 10:22 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah I also am not a fan of 3d at all. Its neat for about ten mins but after that I am over it and would rather see things in 2d. Plus all 3d does is give me a major 3d heach ache.

Another thing is that I have glasses. And wearing glasses over another set of glasses just doesnt work well.
#13 Apr 02 2010 at 10:42 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Remember the virtual boy?


Sure I do. I remember breaking the stand like a week after I got it and having to sit on the Couch looking like an idiot with the V.B. in my lap while everyone watched TV. Looked like I was playing a game using my nut sack.
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#14 Apr 02 2010 at 5:31 PM Rating: Good
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You can count me in for the 3d gaming when they have perfected holographic displays. Can you imagine how fun an RTS would be, especially if it were an interactive display too?
#15 Apr 02 2010 at 8:49 PM Rating: Default
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Skeptic wrote:
I honestly don't see what the big deal is over 3D. I mean, for starters, 3D gives me huge migranes, and I'm sure there is some long term damage that can occur =/


OMG yeah migrane central. I remember seeing Captain EO at disneyland sometime in the mid 80s, I was left with a terrible migrane for the rest of the day. I would prefer no 3d anytime in the future. HD is fine, virtual reality would be neat. But 3d is off my list.
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#16 Apr 02 2010 at 9:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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It seems most are used to the eye "popping" 3D that is very much a gimick. Nvidia 3D vision has a slider for depth and you can give a game only slight perception of depth if you want which makes you feel like you are simply looking through a window into a 3D world rather than it seemingly popping out of the screen. In said 3D effect, if you are getting migrains from that, you might need to look to see if you got other issues with your eyes, the effect is seamless and you don't even really notice its there most of the time, but it does add a layer of immerssion that wouldn't have been there otherwise. The eye popping effect that is in older technology and in some of the newer 3D conversions (Except for a few select movies like say Coraline or even the newest dreamworks movie 'Dragon') I can understand giving you a headache if you aren't ready for it.

Secondly you should not in any way 'fear' 3D being implemented. Its like fearing a new shader being added onto the game in your visual slider, you click it off and play the game. It won't in anyway change the gameplay and the current 3D technology will never add anything to the games gameplay that couldn't be done in 2D. Its just a visual effect that is more immersive and NOTHING else.

Thirdly, you should also not fear them adding 3D effects, like its some arduous task that will limit the development cycle. Most games that run the effect near flawlessly were never even approached the idea of 3D in the development pipeline. Most the work is done by the Nvidia drivers and the only thing a game company needs to be aware of when programming in 3D is how the interface works and how the camera system changes in the game (WoW can have some issues with this for instance, when the camera changes automatically sometimes the driver doesn't keep up and the 3D effect gets distorted and it becomes unplayable without a 3D reset).
#17 Apr 04 2010 at 3:01 AM Rating: Decent
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I guess I hadn't really thought about it with a proper perspective as others seem to have. And I realise now that I was being somewhat close minded.

I guess I'm so used to awful trends on the net permeating other facets of the entertainment industry that I didn't give 3-D possibilities their fare shake. (Anyone else sick of blogs being referenced on legitimate news?)

As long as the game isn't designed around 3-D effects than I really don't have a leg to stand on in complaint. Seriously though.

Sorry, I just realised this is probably sounding like some smarmy, sarcastic nonsense. However, I assure you that it's not. I have absolutely no objections to added, shall I say luxury features?, so long as they don't detract from anyone who doesn't care to use them.

Oh, also (this is an almost completely unrelated side-note btw) This topic reminded me of something that happened during an eye exam for a job that always makes me laugh when I think about it.

There is a depth perception test they give where you have to look at several rows of four circles and decide which one is closer. The circles are all printed on like a one inch thick glass rectangle with 3 circles printed on the bottom surface and one on the top, and you have to determine which one is printed on the top. Anyways, you observe them through one of those wierd sort of goggle box things that they used to give school physicals on, as opposed to the big face mask things that optometrists use.

The reason I mention this is because those box things have ultra bright lights in them that make it hard to look at the thing you're supposed to be looking intently at.

Anyway, I'm having a rough time looking at the circles because of the lighting, and the lady giving the test is getting abnormally ****** at me about it. So I kind of chuckle because I thought she was being silly and that makes her even more ****** off. So now I'm on the verge of cracking up but I can't because the situation is relatively serious. I don't know it's kind of one of those things you have to have been there for I guess, but I laugh whenever I think about it.
#18 Apr 04 2010 at 11:51 AM Rating: Default
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Let's face it, there will come a day where everything will be 3D. Commercials, Basketball Games, Video Games, everything. It's getting that way now. What bothers me is people in my kind of situation. By that I mean from boxing so much I eventually started losing site in my right eye. I'm not completely blind in my Right Eye, but I'm almost half. So whenever I try to look through binoculars, for example, it sucks. I tried 3D glasses like I said in an earlier post, and got a huge head ache.

I just wonder how this 3D thing will accommodate to people that have vision problems like myself. Will we just be screwed?

=/
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#19 Apr 04 2010 at 2:35 PM Rating: Good
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I just wonder how this 3D thing will accommodate to people that have vision problems like myself. Will we just be screwed?


Of course not. All it means is that some people don't don the 3d glasses or activate the 3d technology. When I go to see a 3d movie (I went to see Coraline for example), I can't wear the 3d glasses due to my vision either.. but there was still a movie going down, and it was just fine as-is. It's an optional feature at the end of the day... now if people were to start putting out 3d-ONLY stuff, that would be a problem, but it would also be a very silly move. Even if companies did try for this, I'd imagine we are YEARS away from that potential, and by then I'm sure they'll have come up with new technology and solutions anyway that we can't even think of right now.

It'll be fine. I think that's what people have to understand. It always is.
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#20 Apr 04 2010 at 3:24 PM Rating: Decent
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happybyday wrote:
Quote:
I just wonder how this 3D thing will accommodate to people that have vision problems like myself. Will we just be screwed?


Of course not. All it means is that some people don't don the 3d glasses or activate the 3d technology. When I go to see a 3d movie (I went to see Coraline for example), I can't wear the 3d glasses due to my vision either.. but there was still a movie going down, and it was just fine as-is. It's an optional feature at the end of the day... now if people were to start putting out 3d-ONLY stuff, that would be a problem, but it would also be a very silly move. Even if companies did try for this, I'd imagine we are YEARS away from that potential, and by then I'm sure they'll have come up with new technology and solutions anyway that we can't even think of right now.

It'll be fine. I think that's what people have to understand. It always is.


Actually thats not necessarily the case as unlike movies we interact with games and its quite likely some games will feature interactions ( puzzles for example ) that force you to see in whatever "3D" system is being used as part of the "3D gaming experience". Not likely to be a major issue in FFxiv granted but there will be some games that are so "3D" experience driven that you simply won't be able to play the game in 2D as you won't be able to see whats happening.
#21 Apr 05 2010 at 12:53 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Actually thats not necessarily the case as unlike movies we interact with games and its quite likely some games will feature interactions ( puzzles for example ) that force you to see in whatever "3D" system is being used as part of the "3D gaming experience". Not likely to be a major issue in FFxiv granted but there will be some games that are so "3D" experience driven that you simply won't be able to play the game in 2D as you won't be able to see whats happening.


I don't doubt there will eventually be those types of games (The new nintendo 3DS is bound to have some of those), but just like how 2D sprites/platform style games have not completely vanished, we will probably have plenty of standard monoscopic games, **** maybe even more so because unlike 2D sprites which started because of limitation of technology, Stereo vision itself is entirely reliant on the gamers tolerance and companies would do themselves a disservice to ignore the group that can't see in 3D in real life well, let alone a game. It definitely won't be an issue for FFXIV though :P.
#22 Apr 05 2010 at 4:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Just some extra info regarding "3D" that I had forgotten, when I was studying stereo-photogrammetry at university (*cough* years ago ) we were told that about 20% of normally sighted people couldn't see the images in 3D as their brains could not process it, after a little light refresher research it seems this figure ranges between 3-15% depending on how you measure it, not that there have ever been any really broad studies in this field.
Perhaps if the true figure of people who can't see the simulated "3D" really is in the 10-20% range, well thats a lot of potential customers, decide for yourselves.
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