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Another Racial/Stats thread (Just ideas)Follow

#1 Apr 02 2010 at 11:15 PM Rating: Decent
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So SE has said that although no differences have been implemented as of now, some might be added if players wanted it.
I am one of those players. I feel it creates more variety/diversity and it really makes a race worth choosing regardless of aesthetics (although without you're choosing regardless of stats, which is equal really)
It's cool that any one race can do anything but.. am I the only one who thinks that a lalafell matching a Roegadyn in meatshield expertise is odd?

This is how I feel it should be set up, although it probably won't happen.

Hyur (Mid): Jack of all trades, just as hume.
Hyur (High): Higher STR/VIT than mid, Lower INT/MND. (or something to that effect)

Roegadyn (Sea): Like Galka without the huge MP loss, maybe just a bit less than a Hyur. More HP than Mountain.
Roegadyn (Mountain): Less STR/VIT , higher INT/MND MP than the Sea Roegadyns.

Mi'qote (Sun): Much like mithra, high DEX/AGI but higher STR than Moon for ranged/melee classes.
Mi'qote (Moon): High DEX/AGI as well (their cats duh) but perhaps higher INT/MND for Mage classes.
*Sun could also have slightly higher VIT whereas Moon would gain some MP.

Lala (Plains): Higher MND (Pure of heart kinda deal maybe) Higher STR/CHR
Lala (Desert): Higher INT (Ancient dark arts of old perhaps) Higher DEX/VIT

Elezen (Forest): Higher MND/VIT/CHR
Elezen (Shadow): Higher INT/DEX (Living in shadows requires one to be dexterous)
*AGI should be about the same, Forest archers/People living in the dark both require AGI. I would really hope SE had elves be more like elves this time around, and not sluggish turtlenecks. (I played one in FFXI)

Anyone else have some ideas? Does anyone else prefer racial differences?
With this new clan idea SE implemented there are so many options for everyone, no matter which race you choose. I just think the stat differences add to the lore.


Edited, Apr 2nd 2010 10:18pm by GuardianFaith
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#2 Apr 02 2010 at 11:34 PM Rating: Good
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I hope not, I want to play a Dunesfolk but not be boxed into playing a magic class because I have more INT/MND.

Who cares if a Lalafell can tank just as well as a Roegadyn its a fantasy game.

I would much prefer each race/tribe to have traits than stat bonuses.

SE have hinted that they want the races to be more closely matched this time, hopefully there will little or no stat differences.

Edit - Maybe depending on which patron deity you select during the character customisation screen will have an effect on stats though, but even this will effect the way your character will turn out in the future, just because I start off as a Conjurer doesn't mean thats what I will reach end game as.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2010 1:38am by Diakar
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#3 Apr 02 2010 at 11:36 PM Rating: Good
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I think I would actually prefer there to be no racial boundaries. Things change. What you want to play, changes. It's nice to have a bonus to something, but when you decide to play a class where that bonus is useless, you miss out.

Even-Steven is okay with me. I can make myself whatever I want to.
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#4 Apr 02 2010 at 11:46 PM Rating: Good
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Diakar wrote:
I would much prefer each race/tribe to have traits than stat bonuses.


I agree with this, much more fair over having in xi a galka and a taru same gear same job, same everything.. The taru having 300-500 (or more) less health and 15-30 (or more) less str or other important stats.

We're not talking about game breaking traits, just little bonuses that wouldn't be seen as end-all be-all.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2010 1:47am by flukedrk
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#5 Apr 02 2010 at 11:49 PM Rating: Decent
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I see the point you're all making.
I should stress however that I don't necessarily think their should be a HUGE gap between MP/HP levels of any race/clan.

In retrospect however, I totally agree with racial traits. Awesome idea.

Quote:
Who cares if a Lalafell can tank just as well as a Roegadyn its a fantasy game.

Yes, but even in fantasy worlds there is a sort of natural law, just as there is in reality. Unless they totally break logic and decide a feather weighs as much as a boulder, a lalafell being as tough as a Roegadyn is just not right (unless some form of magic made them so i.e. heal tank with white magic).

*edit: Sorry if I'm kinda nerdin out here, it's not like me lol.

Edited, Apr 2nd 2010 10:56pm by GuardianFaith
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#6 Apr 03 2010 at 12:01 AM Rating: Excellent
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No racial stats please. I like to choose whatever race I want without feeling let down that the race I went with has a lot of problems with class x. I would like to see absolutely no difference between races or tribes concerning stats. I think that there is enough difference with class, element, stat growth, abilitiy choices, armor, and play-style. These things give plenty of diversity to how a player wants to mold their character development, while at the same time putting them on equal footing with their fellow players. Be you a Lalafel or a Roegadyn, you should be given equal oppertunity to excel at whatever class you choose. What you do with your character and how you grow it after that should be up to you. I just dont want to see things like a Roega capping out his hit points at 600 HPs higher than a Lala with the same class, armor, and character growth.
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#7 Apr 03 2010 at 2:17 AM Rating: Good
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a lalafell being as tough as a Roegadyn is just not right (unless some form of magic made them so i.e. heal tank with white magic).


Lalafell might by tiny, but their skin is made from Adamantium, making them one of the toughest possible tanks out there.

See what I did there =O
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#8 Apr 03 2010 at 2:59 AM Rating: Good
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I hope not, I want to play a Dunesfolk but not be boxed into playing a magic class because I have more INT/MND.


Never stopped anybody from playing Taru melee/tank/non-mage in XI Smiley: grin
#9 Apr 03 2010 at 3:13 AM Rating: Decent
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Never stopped anybody from playing Taru melee/tank/non-mage in XI Smiley: grin


I bet you it did, of course there were those that went against the grain so to speak, but I remember the tourture of being a Taru Ninja, it was twice as much work as being a galka.

God help ya if you had a lazy healer in the party.
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#10 Apr 03 2010 at 4:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Personally I like races effecting stat bonuses. I but as a FFXI vet I can tell you Race is a minor part in performance.. skill, gear and macros play a larger part because I have seen some Taru PLD and NIN tank better than any other race. Stat differences based on race do in fact make sense but they also dont break the game as long as you can play up to your strengths and learn how to properly equip yourself.

edit: Unless its a Galka DNC in AF.. thats just disturbing to look at.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2010 6:47am by aremethius
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#11 Apr 03 2010 at 5:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Never stopped anybody from playing Taru melee/tank/non-mage in XI


I would been 1 of those Tarus. My highest mage job was Lv37whm. All my main jobs I leveled was Tanks, and melees. It just made me play my job harder, which made me better at the job itself, which made the job easyer to do.

My first job was Nin to 75, which I leveled it when a Thf was needed in a nin party. I showed a few people that a Thf wasn't needed.

If you know how to play your job, race never mattered.

I hope they add race stats. Like 1 race clan for melee, and another for mage. Even if you pick the clan for mage, you can still level melee. You just be playing little different to overcome your weakness.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2010 4:48pm by Zalongamer
#12 Apr 03 2010 at 7:59 AM Rating: Good
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I have to disagree with you. I was one of the main tanks for my old endgame linkshell, and I was a taru ninja. I out-performed most tanks I came across, including two galka plds in our LS. I was very skilled at both kiting and tanking. However, there were many many occaisions where having the extra HP power of a galka would have made me a better tank. Lets face it, there are some really nasty endgame bosses out there, and sometimes no matter how skilled you are these badasses just swat you aside like trash. And that of course applies to all classes and races. But the point I am making is that in one of those oh sh*t moments, if you had better HPs you could have survived in some cases, instead of being one-shoted. No matter what race you are or how good a player you are, you are going to get one-shoted at some point in endgame activities. However, I have seen galkas on many occaisions survive through shear HPs what wiped out everyone else. So sometimes it is not about skill, it is about being lucky enough to have had a higher HP count.

And yes, I did see many galka plds and galka ninjas go down in boss fights, even with higher HPs. But alot of the time it was about skill. I remember in a god fight once (forget which one) when a galka ninja went down hard and fast. The dudes tanking skills sucked, sadly. So put a galka and taru ninja side by side, they both have the same armor, and food, same sub, and skill level (approx), and have them fight the same bad *** monster with no support. Who will go down first? The taru. Not because the taru tank sucks or is less skilled, but simply due to HPs. Now I admit alot of the stat differences in races of FFXI could be made up for with armor of food. However, HPs and MPs (in some cases) were areas that really could not be made up.

Now if you have not guessed, I want to be a Lala tank in FFXIV. So I will be ******* if there are huge differences in stats between races, particularly in the HP and Def areas. I would not be happy with it, but I could live with minor differences, assuming they really are minor differences. Otherwise, I will be forced to choose a race based on tanking potential, and not on my personal preference. Because as much as I loved being a taru, there were many times that I thought in hindsight I would have choosen to be galka, simply due to better survivability. And hey, as always, SE is going to do what SE is going to do. So no matter how much I dislike the idea, I might just have to suck it up. However, I felt called upon to express my opinion about the right to equal stats among races (and tribes).

Edited, Apr 3rd 2010 10:00am by AmsaimSutavarg
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#13 Apr 03 2010 at 8:11 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah loved playing Galka Redmage for that reason in endgame. When the fights hit a rough spot you're hardly ever the one dead on the ground and can try to fix it.

Edited, Apr 3rd 2010 4:12pm by RedGalka
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#14 Apr 03 2010 at 8:35 AM Rating: Good
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So you want to limit peoples choice of classes based on how their character looks? Or are you trying to encourage people to make several characters, one for each class?

Either way I think it's a bad idea. I like the thought of having one character with whom you can experience all the stuff in the game.
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#15 Apr 03 2010 at 9:24 AM Rating: Default
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Yet you have no problem with the class system, which is basically the main way of limiting yourself. It's not about limits, it's about options. You don't have to pick extremes if that's not your thing.
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#16 Apr 03 2010 at 9:44 AM Rating: Good
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How is the class system limiting?
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#17 Apr 03 2010 at 10:04 AM Rating: Decent
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Stat bonuses as a way of adding realism to the game as I think the OP is saying is not the right path to go down, if you did that then you would have to make females 25%-40% lower in STR than their male counterparts ( by the OP's scheme of things ) and melee classes would be mostly all Roegadyn. A better way to separate the races other than on a purely aesthetic basis is to add passive racial skills.
Personally it does not bother me if a Lalafell has the same STR as a Roegadyn, because STR is an abstract concept used in the game mechanics, having the same STR is not the same as being as physically strong as just as having a higher INT does not make your character cleverer or more knowledgeable. Perhaps they should just rename the stats and people wouldn't mind so much?
#18 Apr 03 2010 at 10:06 AM Rating: Good
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I have no problem with little bonuses, like you get in WoW or something. But nowhere near the extent of FFXI. It makes it way too hard for some races to play some jobs. As was said, things change. Just because you think you'll only ever be a mage doesn't mean you'll only ever be a mage. And people that just want to be a Lalafell shouldn't be penalized if they really want to be a tank.
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#19 Apr 03 2010 at 10:22 AM Rating: Default
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While racial stat differences can be bad if they are too different, I don't think FFXI had a major problem with it. Most of the time, it just led to different ways to play the job and different gear. you could normalize any race/job to another with the right gear.

Also, while it makes it harder as in the case of a whm galka, a galka mage would have learned valuable skills such as how to keep their mp from sinking. I rarely meet a galka mage who is bad. They cannot afford to be. Tarutaru get more leway so it is easier to bounce back from a mistake.(though im not saying tarutaru do not have skill.)

I see racial "incapabilities" as a challenge, not a problem.

If you want to be a lalafell tank, go for it! You will get good at it real quick. You have to.
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#20 Apr 03 2010 at 10:45 AM Rating: Decent
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I see quite a few people in this thread for and against racial differences. Those of you that are for it, is it because you like the challenge? That you like going against the grain? To those of you who are against it, do you think racial traits that are just little bonuses are good or bad?
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#21 Apr 03 2010 at 11:14 AM Rating: Default
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I like the idea of more diversity and racial abilities and attributes would deliver that. I am hoping that it is instituted and the different clans of the races will allow you to play any race without disadvantage. I.E. Galka/Roed could be DoM if they choice the Keeper of Flame clan. Maybe Dunesfolk are more physical than magical. Any clan/race can play any job and sometimes the extra str and hp or int and mp can help in ways that aren't so cookie cutter.
In FFXI I never really encountered "racism". If we needed a rdm it didn't matter if it was taru or galka or if we needed a tank it was ok if it was taru. It all works and adds to the richness of the game.
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#22 Apr 03 2010 at 11:29 AM Rating: Decent
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More diversity to adjust a character to my personal preferences.
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#23 Apr 03 2010 at 1:13 PM Rating: Good
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RedGalka said:
Yet you have no problem with the class system, which is basically the main way of limiting yourself. It's not about limits, it's about options. You don't have to pick extremes if that's not your thing.


Ok, I have a problem with this statement. Classes do not limit a character. Remember that your character will be able to freely switch to whatever class you wish to pursue. However, once you choose a race/tribe you are stuck with that race no matter what class you choose. Even if the classes you wish to pursue do not mesh well with that race/tribe. The only way to avoid this, (if there are race/tribe stat differences) is if you create a new character with the ideal race for the class in question. Which is ridiculous, because it defeats the purpose of being able to switch classes out on the same character.

Now it is true enough that it would create a slight defeciency in diversity by not having the race/tribe stat bonuses. however, is that really worth the sacrifice to stat equality and class ability? I think not! If nothing else, it kills the spirit of the amount of freedom and customization the developers made it sound like the game will be providing. That little extra bit of diversity in which you speak, would only serve to undermine it with its racial inequality.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I do not suggest that mine is the only right opinion. But when people say things like: the stat differences made no difference in FFXI as long as the player had skill..... to me all I can think of is that they either played with an ideal race for their job, they never got deeply involved in endgame, they only ever played in experience parties, or they are ignorant of the amount of difference between the stats of some races. This is all I will post on the subject. For those whose opinion differs, all I can say is we will have to respectfully agree to disagree.

/em bows out of the conversation
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#24 Apr 03 2010 at 1:45 PM Rating: Good
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Reiterating myself, but I don't have a problem with innate bonuses at all as long as they aren't permanent advantages. For example, it makes sense that Highlanders would have higher STR initially, but Midlanders (and all other races) should be able to catch up to that STR at the same cap.
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#25 Apr 03 2010 at 2:40 PM Rating: Default
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Wow some people got downright hostile. I didn't mean to hit a nerve. Like I said, they were just ideas I was having fun with. I thought people may be actually able to come up with some as well, not use a whole page to argue the same point.
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#26 Apr 03 2010 at 2:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Classes do not limit a character.


FFXI examples:
A Paladin gets more health, better gear for defense.
A Black Mage gets a lot of mana and int, but is very weak against physical damage.

These are limits. If you want to nitpick and call them temporary limits because you can switch classes freely (not really, you can't switch during combat), fine.

Quote:
however, is that really worth the sacrifice to stat equality and class ability?


I'm sorry but why are you making this decision for me. If you want a character which is averagely good at any class, fine, good for you. If someone else wanted a character with an edge towards magic, no matter what the class, even if their melee classes wouldn't hit as hard or die faster, because they prefer that playstyle, good for him. It's personal.

Quote:
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I do not suggest that mine is the only right opinion. But when people say things like: the stat differences made no difference in FFXI as long as the player had skill..... to me all I can think of is that they either played with an ideal race for their job, they never got deeply involved in endgame, they only ever played in experience parties, or they are ignorant of the amount of difference between the stats of some races


I'm not sure if this is towards me or not, but I never said this stuff. My main was a Galka Redmage for a really long time, go figure.
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#27 Apr 04 2010 at 11:50 AM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
Reiterating myself, but I don't have a problem with innate bonuses at all as long as they aren't permanent advantages. For example, it makes sense that Highlanders would have higher STR initially, but Midlanders (and all other races) should be able to catch up to that STR at the same cap.

Why does it make sense that a Highlander would have higher STR than a Midlander?
My view is that STR is not the same as being physicaly stronger unless there is a mechanism in the game linking the STR stat to the character, such as determining how much they can carry or INT determining how many hard of a spell you can learn etc.( Yes I am just presuming this will not be the case in FFxiv for the sake of argument )
For example how is it that using a diffent belt can make a character stronger if it has +STR on it? It doesn't allow the char to lift heavier objects, it just boosts your STR stat it does not make them stronger, just as +INT does not make them any smarter it just boosts the INT stat.
By taking this view of the basic stats there is then no reason to be concerned if a Lalafell has the same STR as a Roegadyn as those stats are just an abstract concept and not a part of the world in which the character "lives". And that is why it does not matter if all races have the same stats, well not to me anyway.


Edited, Apr 4th 2010 1:51pm by NumptyHunter
#28 Apr 04 2010 at 7:55 PM Rating: Good
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I like the idea of racial stat differences, though not game breaking in their magnitude. It seems to me though that you can have racial stat differences without making a race bad at a certain class...just different at it. Now, bare with me with these stats. I haven't played FFXI in years.

Say for example, Roegadyns could have high VIT because they're built tough. This is an important tanking stat, so that would help Roegadyns be tanks. Now you have Lalafell, who could have high evasion because they're tiny and nimble. This is also an important tanking stat.

So, both classes have racial stats that make sense and don't gimp them as tanks, just gives them bonuses in different ways. Of course, each race would also have a different stat that somehow helps them be a damage dealer and magic users or this wouldn't work.

Another option, since there seem to be two tribes of every race, is to make one tribe magic users and another tribe melee based. So you can get the look of any race, but not sacrifice the stats for your favorite class.

But I think stat differences are overall a kind of boring way to make the races different. While I haven't played FFXI in years, I played WoW for a couple in the mean time. I liked how they differentiated races--with abilities (one race had an ability to turn invisible, another had a minor healing spell, one could turn to rock to become immune to poisons and take slightly less damage, etc). Which I think is a cool system. All of the racial abilities were pretty useful for every class you could be.

Not that I'm suggesting SE clone WoW's system, but actually DOING something (like casting an ability) is always more fun then passive bonuses.
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#29 Apr 04 2010 at 9:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Another option, since there seem to be two tribes of every race, is to make one tribe magic users and another tribe melee based. So you can get the look of any race, but not sacrifice the stats for your favorite class.

Not really. There are significant differences between the tribes. I want to be a human. But I don't want to be a muscle bound brute. Some may like Mi'qote but they might like the ones that aren't GRAY.
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#30 Apr 04 2010 at 9:10 PM Rating: Good
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Not really. There are significant differences between the tribes. I want to be a human. But I don't want to be a muscle bound brute. Some may like Mi'qote but they might like the ones that aren't GRAY.


Haha, fair enough. Now that ya mention it, I don't particularly want to be gray either. Would be kind of a bummer if the gray dudes were the ones with my ideal stats.

But maybe the pics we have now of the different tribes are the stereotypical look of each. Hopefully there will be a variety of skin tones to choose from, but you're still right--probably a bad option.
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#31 Apr 05 2010 at 12:40 AM Rating: Decent
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I think giving each race a +1 in 2-3 stats for flavor would be fine. A +1 is not going to be a huge difference in the long run so long as HP/MP, two very vital stats to any MMO, are not widely varied like Taru vs Galka. Even giving a race +1 VIT should not affect HP vs a race with no +1VIT compared to say +50HP vs a +0HP char.

I would almost, dare I say it, like to see that perhaps they could do something like LOTRO where you could earn skill/trait that counteracted your race's weak points. Elf (-4 fate due to Dying Race trait, but +20 Fate if you equipped the Friend of Man racial trait) as an example. I doubt FFXIV is actually geared around that type of system, but if something like that could be done I think it would be kinda cool and it would let you customize your character and overcome your weak points instead of having to just live with them.

But, they have already said the races will be mostly the same, stat wise, so it's probably a moot point to talk about it that way.

On the other hand, Tarus made some killer Paladins. ;)
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