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#102 Apr 10 2010 at 6:01 PM Rating: Decent
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EternalIllusion wrote:
Just a general question: How long does it take for a component to go down in price? I know it obviously varies depending on what component it is / supply in demand, but in general? For instance, would buying a comp at the beginning of the summer vs the end of the summer really make a big difference as far as what I end up paying?


You can play the waiting game forever and the time all the big OEMs drop prices and have sales are right when new models are coming out making the older ones obsolete (most of the time).

Buy a computer from a big OEM that you check to make sure includes a good PSU and buy your memory/videocard separately. You'll save a quite a bit of cash that way.

Most of the OEM's are making bank on the upgrades and warranties not the base system ;)
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#103 Apr 10 2010 at 9:24 PM Rating: Good
So luck of the draw, I went over to my buddy's house today and he gave me 4gigs of ddr3 1600 corsair dominator. How completely freaking sweet is that?
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#104 Apr 11 2010 at 12:24 AM Rating: Decent
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I started buying parts for my PC today, this is what I have planned (I just copied the descriptions off my invoice lol):

Sound: AuzenTech Auzen X-Fi HomeTheater HD HDMI PCI-Express
Power Supply: SILVERSTONE ST1500 1500W Power Supply
Optical Drive: LG CH08LS10 8x Blu-ray Reader + 16x DVD SATA
Memory: G.SKILL Ripjaws 6GB Tri-Channel kit DDR3-2000 x 2 (12Gb Total)
Primary Hard Drive: Western Digital VelociRaptor 150GB SATA 10000RPM 16MB Cache
Secondary Hard Drive: Seagate Barracuda XT 2TB SATA3 6Gb/s 64MB 7200RPM Hard Drive
Graphics Cards: 4 x EVGA GeForce GTX 480 1536MB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express (yes, 4 graphics cards)
Motherboard: EVGA 141-BL-E762-A1 LGA 1366 Intel X58 XL-ATX 4 way SLI Intel Motherboard
CPU: INTEL CORE I7 EXTREME 980X 3.33GHZ PROCESSOR SOCKET LGA1366 12MB L3 CACHE

I've built a few PC's before, but if anyone see's any flaws in the above and have any suggestions, let me know.

It's still going to take me a while till I have the money for this, I'm basically buying it through my business :P

Edited, Apr 11th 2010 2:26am by Tubrudi
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#105 Apr 11 2010 at 12:34 AM Rating: Decent
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After building four computers for myself over the years I'm sitting here thinking "I gotta do this again!?" I'm so tired of the need to upgrade all the time. I still love my trusty Pentium 4 3.2ghz 1.5 GB RAM GeForce 6800 computer. As for FFXIV lol well, gogo PS3!
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#106 Apr 11 2010 at 1:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Tubrudi wrote:
I started buying parts for my PC today, this is what I have planned (I just copied the descriptions off my invoice lol):

Sound: AuzenTech Auzen X-Fi HomeTheater HD HDMI PCI-Express
Power Supply: SILVERSTONE ST1500 1500W Power Supply
Optical Drive: LG CH08LS10 8x Blu-ray Reader + 16x DVD SATA
Memory: G.SKILL Ripjaws 6GB Tri-Channel kit DDR3-2000 x 2 (12Gb Total)
Primary Hard Drive: Western Digital VelociRaptor 150GB SATA 10000RPM 16MB Cache
Secondary Hard Drive: Seagate Barracuda XT 2TB SATA3 6Gb/s 64MB 7200RPM Hard Drive
Graphics Cards: 4 x EVGA GeForce GTX 480 1536MB 384-bit GDDR5 PCI Express (yes, 4 graphics cards)
Motherboard: EVGA 141-BL-E762-A1 LGA 1366 Intel X58 XL-ATX 4 way SLI Intel Motherboard
CPU: INTEL CORE I7 EXTREME 980X 3.33GHZ PROCESSOR SOCKET LGA1366 12MB L3 CACHE

I've built a few PC's before, but if anyone see's any flaws in the above and have any suggestions, let me know.

It's still going to take me a while till I have the money for this, I'm basically buying it through my business :P

Edited, Apr 11th 2010 2:26am by Tubrudi


LMAO 4 SLI. I dont even think that PSU can handel that.
#107 Apr 11 2010 at 1:12 AM Rating: Decent
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malcolmtn wrote:
LMAO 4 SLI. I dont even think that PSU can handel that.


Yeah lol, probably not. I'll end up downgrading my ideas before I actually buy anything, simply because of the cost involved.
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#108 Apr 11 2010 at 3:37 AM Rating: Default
malcolmtn wrote:
LMAO 4 SLI. I dont even think that PSU can handel that.


1500W PSU can handle 4 x SLI. Not much wiggle room, but it can handle it. I think the 480s are pulling 300W max, which would leave 300W left over for the rest of the rig, and that's plenty.
#109 Apr 11 2010 at 5:51 AM Rating: Decent
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most of the benchmarks i've seen that show FPS improvement/scaling through SLI or Crossfire show that the gains after the second card are minimal.

Even adding the second card typically will give you far from the ideal 100% gain.

You'd be better served getting just one then upgrading frequently imo, you'll recoup a bit more of your investment in the video card(s) that way too rather than riding the 4x sli rig until the 480gtx is worthless.
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#110 Apr 11 2010 at 8:02 AM Rating: Good
Just remember with PSU's, the Wattage can mean nothing. If you have a 700W PSU with a 30A multirail, it's going to be garbage. A 550W PSU with a 40A single rail is going to perform better. Depending which video cards you get with 4xSLI, you might need upwards of 70+Amps on a single rail.
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#111 Apr 11 2010 at 4:30 PM Rating: Decent
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^ it sort of depends, there are great/awesome multi rail PSU's. 25a+ per PCI-e would be a safe bet for something like a 480GTX which draws around 75w from the pci-e slot and the remaining ~225w through the pci-e connectors (20a would be cutting it close).

although personally I'm a big fan of single rail PSU's since you don't need to worry about distributing the load across rails properly.
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#112 Apr 11 2010 at 4:33 PM Rating: Good
I'm just on the fence about the gains vs the losses of having a quad sli rig. Sure you'd have bragging rights, but jesus that would be a ton of heat to displace, not to mention a power hog. I don't think there are any games out there that would even push the third or fourth one.. Unless you use two of them strictly for PhsyX?
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#113 Apr 11 2010 at 4:45 PM Rating: Default
flukedrk the Shady wrote:
I'm just on the fence about the gains vs the losses of having a quad sli rig. Sure you'd have bragging rights, but jesus that would be a ton of heat to displace, not to mention a power hog. I don't think there are any games out there that would even push the third or fourth one.. Unless you use two of them strictly for PhsyX?


Quad SLI is for the performance enthusiast, not the gamer. It's like liquid nitrogen cooling...there are only a very limited number of people interested in using it because the day-to-day benefits are more or less insubstantial, but if your interest lie in pushing your rig as far as it can go just to say that you did, it can be very useful.

My roommate was saying that early benchmarks on 2 x SLI 480s are very good...80% increase for adding the second card. The question then becomes whether or not you're actually running anything that's going to make use of further additions and whether or not the cost of making those additions justifies the outcome. I'd say that as far as 3x or 4x SLI goes, Joe Average gamer will never see the performance that justifies the cost. I wouldn't cool a 4x SLI rig on air, either. So that adds even more cost to it. If someone has the enthusiasm and the cash to burn, more power to them. Loading up the GPUs thinking it's going to make a noticeable difference would likely lead to disappointment.
#114 Apr 11 2010 at 5:48 PM Rating: Decent
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I know having 4x SLI wouldn't have huge gains, but it would still be pretty awesome though. I just need to sort out the cooling and, thanks to your suggestions, a PSU capable of handling it all.

I also use my PC for 3d and graphics design, having a powerful PC would be pretty sweet for that too.
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#115 Apr 11 2010 at 6:11 PM Rating: Good
Tubrudi wrote:
I know having 4x SLI wouldn't have huge gains, but it would still be pretty awesome though. I just need to sort out the cooling and, thanks to your suggestions, a PSU capable of handling it all.

I also use my PC for 3d and graphics design, having a powerful PC would be pretty sweet for that too.


I'm still under the impression that anything beyond gtx480 x2 is overkill, even for 3d work. If anything drop the other two cards, crank the ram and bam. While it would be sweet to see four cards in there, like I said before, you are going to have so much heat in that case without a complete overhaul of your cooling system. That's my opinion for you.
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#116 Apr 11 2010 at 7:00 PM Rating: Decent
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Tubrudi wrote:
I know having 4x SLI wouldn't have huge gains, but it would still be pretty awesome though. I just need to sort out the cooling and, thanks to your suggestions, a PSU capable of handling it all.

I also use my PC for 3d and graphics design, having a powerful PC would be pretty sweet for that too.


For a rough idea:
cliff notes: most of the time going from 1 card to 2 gives x1.68 more FPS, from 1 to 3 gives x2.08 in numbers 1->2 cards makes farcry2 go from 34->57fps adding a third card gives 12 more FPS
Tri SLI
http://www.benchmarkextreme.com/Articles/GTX%20285%20Tri%20Sli%20Analysis/P1.html
Tri vs. Quad SLI (in this case 3x 280's vs 2x 295's)
Cliff Notes: 3x 280's gives 146fps @ 1920x1200 and dual 295's which have four gpu's give 151fps
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-295,2123.html
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#117 Apr 12 2010 at 9:18 AM Rating: Default
Levish wrote:
Tubrudi wrote:
I know having 4x SLI wouldn't have huge gains, but it would still be pretty awesome though. I just need to sort out the cooling and, thanks to your suggestions, a PSU capable of handling it all.

I also use my PC for 3d and graphics design, having a powerful PC would be pretty sweet for that too.


For a rough idea:
cliff notes: most of the time going from 1 card to 2 gives x1.68 more FPS, from 1 to 3 gives x2.08 in numbers 1->2 cards makes farcry2 go from 34->57fps adding a third card gives 12 more FPS
Tri SLI
http://www.benchmarkextreme.com/Articles/GTX%20285%20Tri%20Sli%20Analysis/P1.html
Tri vs. Quad SLI (in this case 3x 280's vs 2x 295's)
Cliff Notes: 3x 280's gives 146fps @ 1920x1200 and dual 295's which have four gpu's give 151fps
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/geforce-gtx-295,2123.html


A lot of the reason more than 2 GPUs produce lackluster results is because you start splitting the bus multiplier when you go beyond a certain point with most motherboards. My motherboard can go up to 3xSLI/Crossfire. One PCI-E card will run at 16x. Two will run at 16x each. Three splits it to 16x/8x/8x. With the motherboard the person listing their quad SLI dream machine had selected, the PCI slots are locked at 16x/8x/4x/8x. Or to put it another way (roughly), it has physical slots for four cards but bandwidth for only 2.5 :P
#118 Apr 12 2010 at 9:45 AM Rating: Decent
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^
- if you checked the 1st site uses a EVGA 780i SLI which has three full pci-e 2.0 x16 slots (bandwidth is 100% not a issue here since they each get the maximum they can make use of).

- the 2nd one uses a Gigabyte GA-EX58-Extreme which does 2 slots at full pci-e 2.0 x16 and the third at 2.0 x8 but the 295's are a two card, four gpu solution meaning they each got x16 bandwidth.
Bandwidth constraint is not a issue here either if anything the Tri 280's are at a disadvantage since one card would be running at x8.

Here is a link to specifically 480GTX Tri-SLi scaling which mimics the above (1x being baseline for 1x 480GTX, 1.68 for 2x 480GTX and 2.08 for 3x 480GTX). At that point I'd do the math to see if I felt the fps gain was worth it for going from 2 to 3 cards.
http://www.maingearforums.com/entry.php?24-So-You-Want-To-Buy-A-GeForce-Part-2&goto=prev

To even do Quad SLI there are precious few motherboards and cases that would even be able to do it.
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#119 Apr 13 2010 at 7:19 AM Rating: Good
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It would do SE well to make sure this game runs well on older dual core machines and just runs on older single cores - just from a sales stand point. No real point making a game that only a fraction of the community can run. That said, I am not building another machine for a few years so I am hoping for the best out of my Wolfdale.
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#120 Apr 13 2010 at 11:51 AM Rating: Good
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I figured I'd ask you guys whether my computer will be able to run FFXIV aswell, since you seem to know what you're talking about.

Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit)
AMD Turion(tm) II Dual-Core Mobile M500 (2,2GHz)
Ati Mobility Radeon HD 4650
4 GB of ram

I also ran the FFXI Benchmark 3 and got the following results:
Low 6380
High 4631

I'd just be curious to know if you think my laptop will be able to run final fantasy xiv with low to medium graphics with decent fps? It runs wow with 1600x900 resolution with everything on high reasonbly well, and it runs other games such as Oblivion quite well also.

I'm fully aware that I wont be able to run FF XIV with high graphic setting with this computer, but that's not what I'm aiming for. I'd be completely happy if I was able to run the game with the poorest wide-screen resolution available with all settings on minimum, as long as I'd be able to play with a decent fps (graphics aren't that important to me).

This being a laptop, there's not really any room for me to upgrade the components. Also, I can't afford to buy a new computer , especially as I got this laptop quite recently, so I'm just curious to know whether you think this laptop will be able to meet my performance requirements for FF XIV or not?

PS: OT question, but maybe someone could explain this to me. Today I tried to create a new account on this site, and when I entered my email address, I got the message that an account has already been created using my e-mail address. The thing is though that I've never visited this website before yesterday, so I can't quite put my finger on it. Is the e-mail adress of these forums linked somewhere else too? I managed to get the login name and change the password, but I still find this very weird. Unfortunately I'm still stuck with this silly username.

EDIT: Also, I'd like to point out that I'm certain that my email address has not been compromised.

Edited, Apr 13th 2010 1:54pm by asdhat
#121 Apr 13 2010 at 10:48 PM Rating: Good
asdhat wrote:
I figured I'd ask you guys whether my computer will be able to run FFXIV aswell, since you seem to know what you're talking about.

Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit)
AMD Turion(tm) II Dual-Core Mobile M500 (2,2GHz)
Ati Mobility Radeon HD 4650
4 GB of ram

I also ran the FFXI Benchmark 3 and got the following results:
Low 6380
High 4631

I'd just be curious to know if you think my laptop will be able to run final fantasy xiv with low to medium graphics with decent fps? It runs wow with 1600x900 resolution with everything on high reasonbly well, and it runs other games such as Oblivion quite well also.

I'm fully aware that I wont be able to run FF XIV with high graphic setting with this computer, but that's not what I'm aiming for. I'd be completely happy if I was able to run the game with the poorest wide-screen resolution available with all settings on minimum, as long as I'd be able to play with a decent fps (graphics aren't that important to me).

This being a laptop, there's not really any room for me to upgrade the components. Also, I can't afford to buy a new computer , especially as I got this laptop quite recently, so I'm just curious to know whether you think this laptop will be able to meet my performance requirements for FF XIV or not?

PS: OT question, but maybe someone could explain this to me. Today I tried to create a new account on this site, and when I entered my email address, I got the message that an account has already been created using my e-mail address. The thing is though that I've never visited this website before yesterday, so I can't quite put my finger on it. Is the e-mail adress of these forums linked somewhere else too? I managed to get the login name and change the password, but I still find this very weird. Unfortunately I'm still stuck with this silly username.

EDIT: Also, I'd like to point out that I'm certain that my email address has not been compromised.

Edited, Apr 13th 2010 1:54pm by asdhat


As far as your laptop is concerned, you can pretty well bet it will run FFXIV on low-medium if not a tad higher, depending on actual specs.

As for your account, have you ever been on allakazham or any of the network sites? If so it's all the same login. Otherwise you might want to get ahold of a moderator/admin and see what the beef is.
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#122 Apr 13 2010 at 11:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Noctua CPU fans are usually tested better performers than Zalmans are. Consider This or something similar to it. I know that particular model is unavailable right now, but they have a very similar one available now. That model in the link has been tested to be one of the very best aftermarket CPU fans, and it works with AMD's as well as Intel form factors. I've been running it in mine since August 24/7 and no complaints, although I did switch out the fan for a nicer silver one. Oh and I'm rocking it on an overclocked AMD Phenom II stock 3.0Ghz --> 3.6Ghz completely on air alone, and tems are very stable at usually ~80F more or less average use.

I know AMD's have lagged behind this generation, but performance of the Phenom II hasn't disappointed me. The Intel chips have become more affordable as of late, but I still think under $200 for some of the top Phenom II's is quite a steal.

Everything else I've got:
AMD Phenom II 945 O.C.'ed to 3.6Ghz
Aforementioned Noctua CPU Cooler
MSI Triple SLI MoBo
8GB GSkill DDR3 RAM O.C.'ed to 1600Mhz
Antec 1200 Case
Kingston 128GB Solid State Drive
Samsung Spinpoint 1TB HDD
3X PNY nVidia 260 GTX Core 216's
Xion 1250 Watt Power Supply
LG DVD Burner

System is fast, Crushes FFXI benchmarks on highest settings, does nicely on everything I throw at it. I'm not worried about FFXIV slowing it down at all. A bit pricey, yes, and some could've been improved with other brands and such, but I wanted to buy what I wanted to buy. You should do exactly the same. Do what you think is right. Read reviews and decide what you want to spend your money on. Just about any modern system with some power behind it will do just fine with FFXIV. I know a lot of people here are treating it like it's the second coming of Christ, but it's a game the developers want you to play. I doubt it's going to be another Crysis forcing mass waves of people to upgrade just to keep up with it.
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#123 Apr 14 2010 at 6:43 AM Rating: Decent
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^ with all the eye candy up its going to be pretty demanding, I'm betting. Sure you can turn things down but who doesn't want to see it in all its glory.
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#124 Apr 14 2010 at 7:11 AM Rating: Decent
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http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-NetPlay-Controller-Sony-Playstation/dp/B00006SKJ4

Anyone know if there's something like this for PC/PS3? I really fell in love with this damnable thing in FFXI and I'm hoping for an equivalent. Honestly it's important enough to me to decide which platform I play on depending on that. It's just too ergonomic and convenient to do without :c
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#125 Apr 14 2010 at 7:12 AM Rating: Decent
Levish wrote:
^ with all the eye candy up its going to be pretty demanding, I'm betting. Sure you can turn things down but who doesn't want to see it in all its glory.


I definitely agree, this game will no doubt be demanding. Maybe not as beast as age of conan was, but still it will push systems.

Edit: just pick up the ps2 -> ps3 controller adapter that I listed earlier in the thread to use the logitech controller. :)

Edited, Apr 14th 2010 9:18am by flukedrk
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#126 Apr 14 2010 at 7:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Ah, so there's that option... but I couldn't find it in this thread. Is it maybe in the other tech thread?

I assume if it's PS3 compatible, it's also PC compatible? Or does it use something other than USB?

Though I was really hoping they'd come out with a new model that worked out a couple of small flaws in the first (preferable a less compact keyboard and fix the sometimes slurred typing). Plus the two I have are pretty old, and there aren't many more floating around since they stopped making them years ago.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#127 Apr 14 2010 at 9:52 AM Rating: Decent
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personally I think a 4870s gonna be plenty fine to run on something designed to run on a ps3 :P, but god knows what cheap things you can get at the end of this year. :P With all the 3D cards coming in it's hard to really work out where the price shifts in the gfx card market are gonna be exactly :P
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#128 Apr 14 2010 at 11:16 AM Rating: Decent
Kachi wrote:
Ah, so there's that option... but I couldn't find it in this thread. Is it maybe in the other tech thread?

I assume if it's PS3 compatible, it's also PC compatible? Or does it use something other than USB?

Though I was really hoping they'd come out with a new model that worked out a couple of small flaws in the first (preferable a less compact keyboard and fix the sometimes slurred typing). Plus the two I have are pretty old, and there aren't many more floating around since they stopped making them years ago.


Actually I believe I posted in the thread about ps3 or pc preorder.

And to the 4870 comment, you have to remember they aren't porting from ps3 to pc, they are building it on both at the same time. A 4870 will run it decently, but definitely not at max.

Edited, Apr 14th 2010 1:17pm by flukedrk
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#129 Apr 14 2010 at 11:30 AM Rating: Default
flukedrk the Shady wrote:
And to the 4870 comment, you have to remember they aren't porting from ps3 to pc, they are building it on both at the same time. A 4870 will run it decently, but definitely not at max.


Ya, that's a pretty important thing to remember. FFXI was a port to PC from the PS2. It was already live on PS2 in Japan for over a year before it was released in North America. FFXIV is not a port to PC. It would be an awful **** shame to find that SE has locked the PC version based on PS3 limitations. Content, storage space, whatever...if they have to, they have to. But limitations on the PC graphics engine to keep it on par with the PS3 would be a little ridiculous.
#130 Apr 14 2010 at 1:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Planning on getting a new laptop.. (yes laptop, don't ask questions <.<)

anywho specs are:


Intel® CoreTM i5 Processor Processor i5-520M (2.40 GHz) with 3 MB L2/L3 Cache
320 GB Serial ATA (5400 rpm)
4 GB 1066MHz DDR3-SDRAM
Blu-ray Disc(TM) writer
ATI MobilityRadeon HD5650 1GB Dedicated VRAM

Will this be powerful enough to run FF14 you think?





Edited, Apr 14th 2010 3:42pm by BlackDagger
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Because it's a train wreck and we're human?
#131 Apr 14 2010 at 3:57 PM Rating: Decent
BlackDagger wrote:
Planning on getting a new laptop.. (yes laptop, don't ask questions <.<)

anywho specs are:


Intel® CoreTM i5 Processor Processor i5-520M (2.40 GHz) with 3 MB L2/L3 Cache
320 GB Serial ATA (5400 rpm)
4 GB 1066MHz DDR3-SDRAM
Blu-ray Disc(TM) writer
ATI MobilityRadeon HD5650 1GB Dedicated VRAM

Will this be powerful enough to run FF14 you think?





Edited, Apr 14th 2010 3:42pm by BlackDagger


I would say shoot for a 7200rpm drive if you can, the 5400's are a tad old, granted it IS a laptop. Other than that you will be just fine, your seek times will just be a little slow.
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#132 Apr 14 2010 at 5:44 PM Rating: Decent
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The One and Only AureliusSir wrote:
flukedrk the Shady wrote:
And to the 4870 comment, you have to remember they aren't porting from ps3 to pc, they are building it on both at the same time. A 4870 will run it decently, but definitely not at max.


Ya, that's a pretty important thing to remember. FFXI was a port to PC from the PS2. It was already live on PS2 in Japan for over a year before it was released in North America. FFXIV is not a port to PC. It would be an awful **** shame to find that SE has locked the PC version based on PS3 limitations. Content, storage space, whatever...if they have to, they have to. But limitations on the PC graphics engine to keep it on par with the PS3 would be a little ridiculous.


well I have a 4850 and I'm fairly confident it'll run decently on mine... *whistles* :P

but if you really want anything to run to the max then laying down big bucks for big names is always the way to go :P however with 3D cards being the in-thing atm I don't know if you can squeeze out better deals on less gimmicky cards :P (though WoW was pretty sweet in 3D)
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#133 Apr 15 2010 at 2:43 AM Rating: Decent
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If I decide to switch out my processor, what compatibility issues will I need to look out for? As long as the processor and motherboard are compatible, am I ok? Is it just switch out and go, or will I have to do some setup/configurations?
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#134 Apr 15 2010 at 3:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Also, dumb question, but the CPU is on the motherboard, yes? So if I'm changing the motherboard and the CPU, I only need to worry about removing the motherboard? Basically, I'm wanting to know if there are normally any screws or anything that secure the CPU to the case aside from those that secure the motherboard.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#135 Apr 15 2010 at 3:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Thanks for the advice and response flukedrk

Edited, Apr 15th 2010 5:43am by BlackDagger
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#136 Apr 15 2010 at 4:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Hmmm, so I did some research on google and it looks like if I'm doing a straight motherboard swap between two towers, I probably won't have much trouble in the physical swap unless the ports don't match up. But what concerns me is my unfamiliarity with working with the BIOS. The configuration and finding drivers worries me a bit, and then I also hear that swapping out the motherboard will deactivate Windows? It's starting to sound like a real pain ;/
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#137 Apr 15 2010 at 5:02 AM Rating: Good
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I'm not much of a computer expert, but I was considering on buying a laptop for FFXIV. I found this one:

Asus Republic of Gamers G73Jh

Processor: 2,8 GHz Intel Core i7-720QM
Memory: 8GB RAM
Storage: 1TB hard drive
Optical Drive: DVD±RW
Screen: 17.3 inches (1,920x1,080 native resolution)
Graphics: ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5870 (1GB)
Weight: 7.4 pounds
Dimensions (HWD): 2.2x16.3x12.6 inches
Operating System: Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit)

I have watched some youtube videos and it moves the last CoD game pretty good.

Is it a good idea to play this game on a laptop? better to wait more time so it comes down on price or? It's around 1500€ where I live.

thanks beforehand for the responses.
#138 Apr 15 2010 at 6:46 AM Rating: Decent
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Xentok wrote:
Asus Republic of Gamers G73Jh

Processor: 2,8 GHz Intel Core i7-720QM
Memory: 8GB RAM
Storage: 1TB hard drive
Optical Drive: DVD±RW
Screen: 17.3 inches (1,920x1,080 native resolution)
Graphics: ATI Mobility Radeon HD 5870 (1GB)
Weight: 7.4 pounds
Dimensions (HWD): 2.2x16.3x12.6 inches
Operating System: Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit)

I have watched some youtube videos and it moves the last CoD game pretty good.

Is it a good idea to play this game on a laptop? better to wait more time so it comes down on price or? It's around 1500€ where I live.


As far as gaming laptops go thats about a 9.5/10 with the only ones possibly pulling ahead are the ones with SLI configs, even then the mobility HD5870 is just about the best single GPU you can get in a laptop.

I'm not up to speed on EU pricing but I'm going to guess that what you have is a great price and jump on it.

Edited, Apr 15th 2010 8:47am by Levish
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#139 Apr 15 2010 at 7:00 AM Rating: Decent
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I'll give this one a whirl. Building a new PC anyway, but I'll be running XIV on it so I guess that counts.

Gigabyte x58 USB 3.0 Motherboard
Intel Core i7-980X Hexcore at 3.33GHz
24GB 240-Pin DD3 RAM
Two GeForce GTX 480 in SLI
WD Caviar Black 640GB HDD
Win7 Ultimate x64
Onkyo receiver and 5.1 surround sound system (G35 headset when in another room)

Not quite final specs, but it's getting closer to being finalized. As for my monitor, I'll probably just be running it HDMI through my receiver to my TV and get a secondary LCD monitor for when it's not in my room (yes, my case will be on wheels).

Not sure on Keyboard/Mouse yet. I'd prefer either wireless or an extremely long cord, since playing in bed puts me about 7 feet away from my screen and tower. At the moment, I'm looking at Razer and Logitech, but I'm not really sold on either yet.

Edited, Apr 15th 2010 4:14pm by PLDXavier
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#140 Apr 15 2010 at 9:01 AM Rating: Decent
Kachi wrote:
If I decide to switch out my processor, what compatibility issues will I need to look out for? As long as the processor and motherboard are compatible, am I ok? Is it just switch out and go, or will I have to do some setup/configurations?


As long as the new CPU uses the same socket as the old one, you're fine. There are three main types of CPU sockets in common usage these days: LGA775, LGA1156, and LGA1366. Find out which one you've got and that will define what kind of processor you can get to put it in.

Swapping out a CPU is pretty straightforward. There are no screws mounting the CPU to the motherboard and the sockets are designed so that you'd have to try really hard to put the CPU in wrong. Most newer motherboards have a little metal arm that you unclip and swing up and it lifts the load plate holding the CPU in place. Take out the old CPU, put in the new one, swing the arm back down and clip it in place and voila. You'll have to take the old CPU heat sink off the motherboard to get at the CPU socket, but that's usually pretty easy.

If, on the other hand, you're switching out the CPU and motherboard, it's a little more involved. You'll need to make sure that your old RAM is compatible with the new board unless you get new RAM along with everything else. You'll also need to make sure that your power supply comes with enough connectors to power the new motherboard. Worth noting is that most new motherboards come with their own custom IO port backplate. You should be able to just remove the old motherboard backplate (once the motherboard is out), put in the new one, secure the motherboard into place, plug everything in and go. A new motherboard should come with all the documentation that shows you where to plug in your power switch, reset button, any front side IO devices you might have, etc. The BIOS will automatically detect and configure the new CPU for stock operation as well.

Replacing the CPU/motherboard might flag Windows to require reactivation. Worst case scenario, you call their automated activation line, try activating with the automated system and if that doesn't work it will put you through to a person. I had to do that with my latest build and the person I talked to didn't even ask why I was reactivating. If they had, I would have just told them I had done a major upgrade of my system (which was technically the truth...the only thing I kept from the old system were the hard drives :P).

Edited, Apr 15th 2010 8:01am by AureliusSir
#141 Apr 15 2010 at 5:02 PM Rating: Decent
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I've been away from this thread for a bit, but to everyone who replied to my question, thank you. I will keep it all in mind when the time comes to build my PC.
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#142 Apr 15 2010 at 5:09 PM Rating: Decent
PLDXavier wrote:
I'll give this one a whirl. Building a new PC anyway, but I'll be running XIV on it so I guess that counts.

Gigabyte x58 USB 3.0 Motherboard
Intel Core i7-980X Hexcore at 3.33GHz
24GB 240-Pin DD3 RAM
Two GeForce GTX 480 in SLI
WD Caviar Black 640GB HDD
Win7 Ultimate x64
Onkyo receiver and 5.1 surround sound system (G35 headset when in another room)

Not quite final specs, but it's getting closer to being finalized. As for my monitor, I'll probably just be running it HDMI through my receiver to my TV and get a secondary LCD monitor for when it's not in my room (yes, my case will be on wheels).

Not sure on Keyboard/Mouse yet. I'd prefer either wireless or an extremely long cord, since playing in bed puts me about 7 feet away from my screen and tower. At the moment, I'm looking at Razer and Logitech, but I'm not really sold on either yet.

Edited, Apr 15th 2010 4:14pm by PLDXavier


I would say if you're definitely going to do the wireless thing, look for bluetooth mouse/keyboard. There are quite a few on newegg. Also, jesus god at the amount of ram, you're just blowing money there, lol. Reduce that to like 12gigs and get another HDD.
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#143 Apr 15 2010 at 6:19 PM Rating: Decent
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flukedrk the Shady wrote:
PLDXavier wrote:
I'll give this one a whirl. Building a new PC anyway, but I'll be running XIV on it so I guess that counts.

Gigabyte x58 USB 3.0 Motherboard
Intel Core i7-980X Hexcore at 3.33GHz
24GB 240-Pin DD3 RAM
Two GeForce GTX 480 in SLI
WD Caviar Black 640GB HDD
Win7 Ultimate x64
Onkyo receiver and 5.1 surround sound system (G35 headset when in another room)

Not quite final specs, but it's getting closer to being finalized. As for my monitor, I'll probably just be running it HDMI through my receiver to my TV and get a secondary LCD monitor for when it's not in my room (yes, my case will be on wheels).

Not sure on Keyboard/Mouse yet. I'd prefer either wireless or an extremely long cord, since playing in bed puts me about 7 feet away from my screen and tower. At the moment, I'm looking at Razer and Logitech, but I'm not really sold on either yet.

Edited, Apr 15th 2010 4:14pm by PLDXavier


I would say if you're definitely going to do the wireless thing, look for bluetooth mouse/keyboard. There are quite a few on newegg. Also, jesus god at the amount of ram, you're just blowing money there, lol. Reduce that to like 12gigs and get another HDD.


Yeah, I'm liking a certain logitech BT combo, and Newegg (through whom I'm buying most/all of my parts) has it on sale right now.

EDIT: Dropping that whole virtual machine idea. For some reason, it didn't dawn on me until explaining all this that a dedicated rig would free up my laptop to be my main development machine. So I'll probably do the sensible thing and keep the ram down to 12 gigs for a gaming rig / media server.

Edited, Apr 15th 2010 10:16pm by PLDXavier
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#144 Apr 16 2010 at 6:25 AM Rating: Decent
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PLDXavier wrote:
Yeah, I'm liking a certain logitech BT combo, and Newegg (through whom I'm buying most/all of my parts) has it on sale right now.

EDIT: Dropping that whole virtual machine idea. For some reason, it didn't dawn on me until explaining all this that a dedicated rig would free up my laptop to be my main development machine. So I'll probably do the sensible thing and keep the ram down to 12 gigs for a gaming rig / media server.


I'm not sure what you are developing but you could always run the development machine on Virtual PC 2007 with XP/Vista/W7 in various states of SP's and applied KB's

Or just install two instances of W7 on the main rig and just do a reboot and select the 2nd instance for doing dev work.

If you use Windows 2k8 Server HyperV you have a lot more options as to what resources to assign to the virtual development machine (more than one processor assignment, more than 4GB of RAM, fixed HDD size which improves performance greatly and so on).

I would have suggested the Windows HyperV Server which is free but its a Core only install and no GUI so you couldn't actually run FF14 on it.

I actually do a dual boot, my 2nd boot isn't another W7 though its a 2008 Server since I'm studying for my Microsoft Certifications and its used for my test environments.

Edited, Apr 16th 2010 8:26am by Levish
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#145 Apr 16 2010 at 9:33 AM Rating: Decent
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AureliusSir, I love the look of your custom water cooled HAF case! May I ask where you ordered your water cooling components from, and was there a guide you followed? I'm thinking about water cooling my next PC build later this year but the task feels a bit daunting for a first timer. I've built plenty of air cooled PCs before but the thought of pulling the heat sinks off my expensive video card and having to constantly monitor for leaks always turned me away from water. Not to mention the fact that Newegg, the online retailer I normally order components from, seems to be severely lacking on options and stock for water cooling.

Also, you mentioned a possible Crossfire setup in your future. Do the water blocks for SLI and Crossfire hook together? I can't imagine trying to fit hoses into both of them. Reading your blog gave me the PC building bug again... thanks in advance!
#146 Apr 16 2010 at 10:44 AM Rating: Decent
Calispel wrote:
AureliusSir, I love the look of your custom water cooled HAF case! May I ask where you ordered your water cooling components from, and was there a guide you followed? I'm thinking about water cooling my next PC build later this year but the task feels a bit daunting for a first timer. I've built plenty of air cooled PCs before but the thought of pulling the heat sinks off my expensive video card and having to constantly monitor for leaks always turned me away from water. Not to mention the fact that Newegg, the online retailer I normally order components from, seems to be severely lacking on options and stock for water cooling.


I got my components from NCIX. If you're in the US, you'll have it a little easier than me because a lot of the individual WC component manufacturers operate out of the States which means if you can't find a retailer to sell them, you can often go direct to the source. In my case, brokerage fees to have components shipped up here to Canada are exorbitant. There are also a number of manufacturers in Europe if that's closer to home for you.

It is a bit daunting at first, but it's really not too bad. Research, research, research. (Here is a very good place to start.) Despite being very much a niche market, there are numerous options in almost every category of component for fully modular water cooling builds. I spent hours reading up on this and that for my build and despite a couple of hiccups, it paid off. I'm hoping that my chipset block will show up in the next week or two, at which point my entire rig will run heavily overclocked (and moderately over-voltage) with temperatures lower than most rigs run at stock settings on air.

Quote:
Also, you mentioned a possible Crossfire setup in your future. Do the water blocks for SLI and Crossfire hook together? I can't imagine trying to fit hoses into both of them. Reading your blog gave me the PC building bug again... thanks in advance!


Ya, the water block I bought from my video card has ports on both sides of the block so you can run coolant tubing from the top and/or bottom of the block (as it sits when it's installed) and you can get special metal fittings that run between Crossfire/SLI installations (like these). You could also just do a standard fitting connection with a small length of tubing between the fittings, but the metal connectors would likely be a lot easier to work with.

Edited, Apr 16th 2010 9:45am by AureliusSir
#147 Apr 16 2010 at 12:48 PM Rating: Good
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thanks for the reply, I think I'm going to buy it, looks like a great laptop.
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#148 Apr 16 2010 at 1:26 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only AureliusSir wrote:

Ya, the water block I bought from my video card has ports on both sides of the block so you can run coolant tubing from the top and/or bottom of the block (as it sits when it's installed) and you can get special metal fittings that run between Crossfire/SLI installations (like these). You could also just do a standard fitting connection with a small length of tubing between the fittings, but the metal connectors would likely be a lot easier to work with.

Edited, Apr 16th 2010 9:45am by AureliusSir


Read the blog and applaud your effort and detail in discussing the ins-and-outs and of course your insanity. And I mean that last part with a sense of fondness.
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#149 Apr 16 2010 at 3:01 PM Rating: Decent
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The One and Only AureliusSir wrote:
Ya, the water block I bought from my video card has ports on both sides of the block so you can run coolant tubing from the top and/or bottom of the block (as it sits when it's installed) and you can get special metal fittings that run between Crossfire/SLI installations (like these). You could also just do a standard fitting connection with a small length of tubing between the fittings, but the metal connectors would likely be a lot easier to work with.


Thanks for the tips Aurelius. Do you feel water cooling is worth the hassle if you only use it on the CPU? I'm also considering a Crossfire/SLI setup eventually, but it seems like a pain to deal with multiple loops with the extra Rads, pumps, and reservoirs. How are you planning to configure the Rads in your HAF once you add another GPU?
#150 Apr 16 2010 at 3:33 PM Rating: Decent
Calispel wrote:
The One and Only AureliusSir wrote:
Ya, the water block I bought from my video card has ports on both sides of the block so you can run coolant tubing from the top and/or bottom of the block (as it sits when it's installed) and you can get special metal fittings that run between Crossfire/SLI installations (like these). You could also just do a standard fitting connection with a small length of tubing between the fittings, but the metal connectors would likely be a lot easier to work with.


Thanks for the tips Aurelius. Do you feel water cooling is worth the hassle if you only use it on the CPU? I'm also considering a Crossfire/SLI setup eventually, but it seems like a pain to deal with multiple loops with the extra Rads, pumps, and reservoirs. How are you planning to configure the Rads in your HAF once you add another GPU?


For only a CPU, no, it's not worth it. The cost would be enormous for what you'd get. Your CPU could be overclocked like crazy and stay nice and cool, but to put together a modular water cooling system for just the CPU would still run you in the neighborhood of $200-300 minimum by the time you'd bought the pump, radiator, fans, CPU water block, fittings, and tubing. If you knew that you were going to be adding more water blocks for things like chipset and GPU(s) then ya, you could start with CPU only and build from there. If you weren't committed to eventually cooling at least a GPU with water later on, I'd say go with a pre-made CPU water cooling unit (if you trust them) or just a really beefy aftermarket CPU heat sink w/ fan(s).

I've got 3 options to add another radiator. I could add another triple rad to the top of the case (external), but that would require removing the front IO assembly and drilling/cutting the case to relocate the power/reset buttons. I'm not too keen on that. I could alternatively add a double rad on top of the case (also external) and leave the IO assembly alone. The final option would be to mount a single rad (external again) off the back of the case which is a common option. I'll have to wait and see how the chipset block affects overall temperatures, however. I'm going to be pumping a lot of heat into a flow-restricting block and if it has a significant impact on overall system temperatures, I'd probably go with the top mounted double radiator and change the loops around to distribute the heat dissipation more evenly.

Refews wrote:
Read the blog and applaud your effort and detail in discussing the ins-and-outs and of course your insanity. And I mean that last part with a sense of fondness.


Thanks Smiley: wink If you think that was/is insanity, Project: Subtle Behemoth is slated to begin in the next 2-4 weeks. That one is going to get a little crazy, I think ;D

Edited, Apr 16th 2010 2:38pm by AureliusSir
#151 Apr 16 2010 at 5:33 PM Rating: Decent
The One and Only AureliusSir wrote:

Thanks Smiley: wink If you think that was/is insanity, Project: Subtle Behemoth is slated to begin in the next 2-4 weeks. That one is going to get a little crazy, I think ;D


So you're borrowing or buying a camera for vids this time right, RIGHT?! Smiley: tongue
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