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#152The One and Only AureliusSir, Posted: Apr 16 2010 at 5:41 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I might buy a digital camera for this one in the hopes of better picture quality, but let's face it...the crappy photos in my build blog were probably not because of the camera <.< There's not a lot of money in the budget for extras with this upcoming project, but I might see about getting an inexpensive video camera as it nears completion. In the meantime, still images should be adequate ;D
#153 Apr 16 2010 at 5:44 PM Rating: Decent
The One and Only AureliusSir wrote:
flukedrk the Shady wrote:
The One and Only AureliusSir wrote:

Thanks Smiley: wink If you think that was/is insanity, Project: Subtle Behemoth is slated to begin in the next 2-4 weeks. That one is going to get a little crazy, I think ;D


So you're borrowing or buying a camera for vids this time right, RIGHT?! Smiley: tongue


I might buy a digital camera for this one in the hopes of better picture quality, but let's face it...the crappy photos in my build blog were probably not because of the camera <.< There's not a lot of money in the budget for extras with this upcoming project, but I might see about getting an inexpensive video camera as it nears completion. In the meantime, still images should be adequate ;D


Back to the subject of liquid cooling, do they have UV colored coolant or something of the sort or is it just the tubes? I'm seriously considering putting a system in the budget, lol.
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#154 Apr 16 2010 at 5:57 PM Rating: Default
flukedrk the Shady wrote:
The One and Only AureliusSir wrote:
flukedrk the Shady wrote:
The One and Only AureliusSir wrote:

Thanks Smiley: wink If you think that was/is insanity, Project: Subtle Behemoth is slated to begin in the next 2-4 weeks. That one is going to get a little crazy, I think ;D


So you're borrowing or buying a camera for vids this time right, RIGHT?! Smiley: tongue


I might buy a digital camera for this one in the hopes of better picture quality, but let's face it...the crappy photos in my build blog were probably not because of the camera <.< There's not a lot of money in the budget for extras with this upcoming project, but I might see about getting an inexpensive video camera as it nears completion. In the meantime, still images should be adequate ;D


Back to the subject of liquid cooling, do they have UV colored coolant or something of the sort or is it just the tubes? I'm seriously considering putting a system in the budget, lol.


Ya, there are all kinds of options to make the coolant UV reactive, but I'm not overly fond of any of them. I guess one benefit of using clear tubing and then either getting coolant that is dyed and UV reactive out of the bottle or clear coolant and adding a dye bomb is that you can change the color later with just a coolant change, but I've seen some pretty gory images of what the dye additives can do to water blocks so I went with the UV reactive tubing instead. It's basically the same price as clear tubing.

I just found out the other day that a lot of the coolant tubing on the market today has an anti-microbial agent mixed in with the plastic, and silver plated fittings also contribute to killing off the icky bugs that might otherwise want to grow in your loop. (I actually saw a screenshot of a genuine solid silver ingot that someone had put in their reservoir as their anti-microbial protection). That means that in theory, you could run your loop on plain old distilled water (both for it's non-conductive properties as well as it not having any minerals in it that could leave deposit build ups in your components). I plan on using distilled water for my next coolant fill and I'm going to poke around an aquarium store and see what I can find by way of anti-microbial additives. If it can kill the germs in fish poo, it ought to be fine for my loop ;D $20 for a 1 litre bottle of clear coolant is unnecessary, I think.
#155 Apr 17 2010 at 10:24 PM Rating: Good
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I have a Macbook Pro running Windows Vista. Can anyone give me an idea of how well it will run FFXIV?
#156 Apr 17 2010 at 11:53 PM Rating: Decent
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kateko wrote:
I have a Macbook Pro running Windows Vista. Can anyone give me an idea of how well it will run FFXIV?



Depends which Macbook Pro it is.
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#157 Apr 18 2010 at 12:40 AM Rating: Good
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I don't know what information is useful so sorry if I say something irrelevant or leave something out

Intel Core 2 Duo processor 2.66GHz
4GB RAM
NVIDEA GeForce 9600M GT (also 9400M)
#158 Apr 18 2010 at 12:44 AM Rating: Decent
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So I'm selling my 8 core Mac Pro to get the 6 core i7 980x. Link if anyone wants to check it out.
Craigslist
For the Mac, it has 16 logical cores and a 4870 and runs games fine in Windows 7, but I really just want more encoding speed and I don't want to wait for the Mac drivers for the ATI 5xxx series. I've been watching the benchmarks for the past few weeks and the 3.33 6 core 980x is a tad bit faster than the 2.26 8 Core E5520. I figured I can overclock it to at least 4.5 GHz and shave maybe an hour or two off of encoding a day. I'm ordering off of TigerDirect for no Tax in Cali and 12.5% Bing Cashback. What do you guys think.


i7 980x

Asus P6T motherboard

Kingston 1333MHz 6GB DDR3

ATI 5850

Ultra ATX Black Full Tower Case

LG CD/DVD burner

Cooler Master 600 Watt PSU

I have a few HDDs and SSDs I'll be reusing from the Mac. Total will be just shy of $2,000, and in 60 days Bing Cashback will refund me a bit over $200. Is there anything else I am missing? Is the PSU enough? Thanks

Edited, Apr 18th 2010 2:46am by malcolmtn

Edited, Apr 18th 2010 2:46am by malcolmtn

Edited, Apr 18th 2010 2:51am by malcolmtn
#159 Apr 18 2010 at 8:18 AM Rating: Decent
malcolmtn wrote:
So I'm selling my 8 core Mac Pro to get the 6 core i7 980x. Link if anyone wants to check it out.
Craigslist
For the Mac, it has 16 logical cores and a 4870 and runs games fine in Windows 7, but I really just want more encoding speed and I don't want to wait for the Mac drivers for the ATI 5xxx series. I've been watching the benchmarks for the past few weeks and the 3.33 6 core 980x is a tad bit faster than the 2.26 8 Core E5520. I figured I can overclock it to at least 4.5 GHz and shave maybe an hour or two off of encoding a day. I'm ordering off of TigerDirect for no Tax in Cali and 12.5% Bing Cashback. What do you guys think.


i7 980x

Asus P6T motherboard

Kingston 1333MHz 6GB DDR3

ATI 5850

Ultra ATX Black Full Tower Case

LG CD/DVD burner

Cooler Master 600 Watt PSU

I have a few HDDs and SSDs I'll be reusing from the Mac. Total will be just shy of $2,000, and in 60 days Bing Cashback will refund me a bit over $200. Is there anything else I am missing? Is the PSU enough? Thanks

Edited, Apr 18th 2010 2:46am by malcolmtn

Edited, Apr 18th 2010 2:46am by malcolmtn

Edited, Apr 18th 2010 2:51am by malcolmtn


Why not just grab a 5870 and a 800+ psu incase you decide to crossfire down the line?
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#160 Apr 18 2010 at 9:18 AM Rating: Default
malcolmtn wrote:
So I'm selling my 8 core Mac Pro to get the 6 core i7 980x. Link if anyone wants to check it out.
Craigslist
For the Mac, it has 16 logical cores and a 4870 and runs games fine in Windows 7, but I really just want more encoding speed and I don't want to wait for the Mac drivers for the ATI 5xxx series. I've been watching the benchmarks for the past few weeks and the 3.33 6 core 980x is a tad bit faster than the 2.26 8 Core E5520. I figured I can overclock it to at least 4.5 GHz and shave maybe an hour or two off of encoding a day. I'm ordering off of TigerDirect for no Tax in Cali and 12.5% Bing Cashback. What do you guys think.


That PSU is likely to make you a sad panda. Power supplies are one of those things where you tend to get what you pay for. I had a $180 PSU in this build before it went wonky (manufacturing defect; not necessarily because it was a poor design) and when I returned it I opted to spring for an even beefier unit that cost about $100 more. Barring any other manufacturer defects, this PSU should be good for five years or more and can handle not only everything I currently have in the case, but anything I might personally decide to add later.

I just read the product description for the PSU you linked and to be honest, I actually found it to be bordering on offensive. It's a 600W PSU claiming to be capable of handling "the most demanding SLI or CrossFire systems" which may have been true when that particular model was first released, but is no longer true today. A GTX480 is rated at 250W and was tested to draw 392W under full benchmarking load. That's a fair bit higher than the 58xx series, but it still helps to bring things into context.

I would recommend taking a look at this PSU as an alternative to the Cooler Master one. I have nothing against Cooler Master in general...I'm using one of their cases for my PC atm. When it comes to PSUs, you can never go wrong with Corsair. More expensive, yes, but an all around higher quality unit.
#161 Apr 18 2010 at 11:13 AM Rating: Decent
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there are quite a few great PSU's for way under 200$
my PCP&C 750w went on sale recently for about 75$ i believe its over though.

take a gander through here
http://www.jonnyguru.com/index.php
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#162 Apr 18 2010 at 1:12 PM Rating: Good
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I am looking to buy a new computer and plan to play FFXIV on it. I am not set on a desktop or laptop, but I'm leaning towards a desktop because I've had heating issues with laptops. The budget is also kind of tight and would definitely need to stay under $1000, but could go a little higher if it's a laptop.

I have some hardware knowledge, but not enough when it comes to comparing systems. The system I'm looking at right now is:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883227241

How well would this work for something like FFXIV? What would need to be changed? One of the reviews suggests a new power supply, what would be a good replacement?
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#163 Apr 18 2010 at 5:39 PM Rating: Decent
xypin wrote:
I am looking to buy a new computer and plan to play FFXIV on it. I am not set on a desktop or laptop, but I'm leaning towards a desktop because I've had heating issues with laptops. The budget is also kind of tight and would definitely need to stay under $1000, but could go a little higher if it's a laptop.

I have some hardware knowledge, but not enough when it comes to comparing systems. The system I'm looking at right now is:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883227241

How well would this work for something like FFXIV? What would need to be changed? One of the reviews suggests a new power supply, what would be a good replacement?


Based on the specs of that computer you linked, I would say go for a 750watt or better corsair PSU and at least a Radeon 5850 which would take you to just under $1000 and you would have a very decent gaming rig on your hands.
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#164 Apr 18 2010 at 6:17 PM Rating: Decent
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a buddy of mine builds machines in south dakota and this is the one i'm leaning towards

http://siouxcity.craigslist.org/sys/1687807271.html
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#165 Apr 18 2010 at 8:39 PM Rating: Default
novadog wrote:
a buddy of mine builds machines in south dakota and this is the one i'm leaning towards

http://siouxcity.craigslist.org/sys/1687807271.html


I think maybe the seller is overselling that one a little bit. It's using a lot of aged components and for me personally, I don't like people listing oodles of software that anyone can get as a free download from the web as selling features. Not trying to rip on your friend (assuming he's the one selling it) but something about that ad just didn't sit right. Not a horrible rig for the price, but not a great rig overall.

Edited, Apr 18th 2010 7:40pm by Aurelius
#166 Apr 18 2010 at 9:24 PM Rating: Default
Let me know if you guys think what I'm about to post would be worthy of a new thread on the forums or something to just leave here. I got this idea elsewhere but I've tweaked it a bit.

This is an option if you're concerned about whether or not your current PC will be up to the challenge of running FFXIV with an acceptable balance of image quality vs. framerate. For starters, go to this site and download the Heaven 2.0 benchmarking software. This is a free application from a safe source. Follow the instructions to install (it's very straightforward).

When you launch the software, you'll get a screen that looks similar to this:

Screenshot


You can duplicate the settings that I have shown in the image if you like. AA isn't going to make or break your gaming experience so feel free to leave that toggled "off" for your first test and then if you want to mess around you can also bump it up and run the benchmark again. Anisotropy is the same. If you're looking for settings to keep low to start with, those two would be good choices. Tessellation is a feature that requires a DX11 capable card to make use of, so if you don't have a Radeon 5xxx series or nVidia GTX4xx series card, don't feel bad. FFXIV hasn't been announced to support DX10 or 11 at this point anyways. Also, the benchmark software will normally detect the maximum resolution your monitor supports and have that set in the resolution field. I'd suggest running at the maximum resolution possible for your rig just to see how it does.

When you click on "RUN", it will load to a full screen page. Press 'F9' to begin the benchmark testing. (It may take a little while to load into the actual benchmark).

Once the benchmark is running, you'll see some menu options in the top left section of the screen and way off in the very top right corner of the screen you'll see your FPS (frames per second).

Keep in mind for this benchmark that it's not having to deal with all kinds of monsters and players adding to the demands on your video hardware, so I would say that anything under 30 fps for most scenes would indicate that you could stand to do some upgrading in preparation for FFXIV. Anything over a fairly stable 30 fps but under 50-60 fps and you should be fine to run FFXIV at reasonable settings, though you may experience hardware lag in densely populated zones. 60fps and over and you should be absolutely fine to run FFXIV at medium-high settings and not experience too many hiccups.

If you're wondering how I've arrived at this conclusion having not yet had access to the release version of FFXIV, it's pretty straightforward. Benchmark software is specifically designed to push your rig as far as it can go within the parameters you define. Of course, when it comes to the release version of the game your mileage may vary depending on how SE has handled character models, environmental and lighting effects, etc. Please don't take your results with this benchmark as a sure indication of where you stand in terms of hardware, but it's enough of an indication that if you run this benchmark and your rig doesn't go over 20 fps that you might want to start researching some upgrades if you aren't already doing so :P

Edited, Apr 18th 2010 10:06pm by Aurelius
#167 Apr 19 2010 at 12:19 AM Rating: Decent
I would say posting it in here would be perfect, considering this is a "show us your rig, we will let you know how it will perform" type thread. I will certainly load it up on my new system when I finish gathering the pieces :D
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#168 Apr 19 2010 at 12:28 AM Rating: Default
flukedrk the Shady wrote:
I would say posting it in here would be perfect, considering this is a "show us your rig, we will let you know how it will perform" type thread. I will certainly load it up on my new system when I finish gathering the pieces :D


It's a really cool benchmark. I think Furmark is still a little more demanding, but Heaven 2.0 is just a lot more fun to watch (and it has nifty music). I ran Heaven 2.0 on DX11 with max settings (including tessellation) before I overclocked my PC and it slowed down to 10-20fps. I'm waiting until I get the chipset cooler, but then I'll be looking to OC my GPU and try it again to see what kin of numbers I can manage.
#169 Apr 19 2010 at 12:41 AM Rating: Decent
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
flukedrk the Shady wrote:
I would say posting it in here would be perfect, considering this is a "show us your rig, we will let you know how it will perform" type thread. I will certainly load it up on my new system when I finish gathering the pieces :D


It's a really cool benchmark. I think Furmark is still a little more demanding, but Heaven 2.0 is just a lot more fun to watch (and it has nifty music). I ran Heaven 2.0 on DX11 with max settings (including tessellation) before I overclocked my PC and it slowed down to 10-20fps. I'm waiting until I get the chipset cooler, but then I'll be looking to OC my GPU and try it again to see what kin of numbers I can manage.


What kind of OC we talking for the GPU? The stock CCC overdrive thing or are you really going to push it?

On a side note, a buddy of mine is really REALLY good with an airbrush... custom painted HAF for free. I will get some pics up when I get it all here at once to start my build :D
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#170 Apr 19 2010 at 1:02 AM Rating: Default
flukedrk the Shady wrote:
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
flukedrk the Shady wrote:
I would say posting it in here would be perfect, considering this is a "show us your rig, we will let you know how it will perform" type thread. I will certainly load it up on my new system when I finish gathering the pieces :D


It's a really cool benchmark. I think Furmark is still a little more demanding, but Heaven 2.0 is just a lot more fun to watch (and it has nifty music). I ran Heaven 2.0 on DX11 with max settings (including tessellation) before I overclocked my PC and it slowed down to 10-20fps. I'm waiting until I get the chipset cooler, but then I'll be looking to OC my GPU and try it again to see what kin of numbers I can manage.


What kind of OC we talking for the GPU? The stock CCC overdrive thing or are you really going to push it?


I'm going to try the AMD GPU Clock Tool. The CCC OVerdrive utility is pretty limited and is designed with the assumption that you're going to be overclocking with the stock cooler. I haven't looked to closely at it yet, mainly because I have to wait and see how adding a chipset block affects my overall temperatures before I get all excited about adding even more heat, but if everything stays cool and stable I'll be wanting to push a little harder.

Quote:
On a side note, a buddy of mine is really REALLY good with an airbrush... custom painted HAF for free. I will get some pics up when I get it all here at once to start my build :D


Nice ^^ Airbrushed cases are a great way to personalize your rig.
#171 Apr 21 2010 at 11:13 AM Rating: Decent
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
flukedrk the Shady wrote:
I would say posting it in here would be perfect, considering this is a "show us your rig, we will let you know how it will perform" type thread. I will certainly load it up on my new system when I finish gathering the pieces :D


It's a really cool benchmark. I think Furmark is still a little more demanding, but Heaven 2.0 is just a lot more fun to watch (and it has nifty music). I ran Heaven 2.0 on DX11 with max settings (including tessellation) before I overclocked my PC and it slowed down to 10-20fps. I'm waiting until I get the chipset cooler, but then I'll be looking to OC my GPU and try it again to see what kin of numbers I can manage.


Yeah, I'd never even heard about that benchmark, but I think it's a great place to introduce it. My current FFXI rig (which is only a laptop) only registered about an average 4FPS haha. With my parts arriving hopefully today (I opted for 12GB of ram and only one of the GTX 480s for the time being), I'm curious to see how my new machine will fare.

EDIT: Oh and that GTX 480? A freakin' beast of a card! The last time I bought a video card (and built a machine for that matter), it was old enough to boast "New VGA graphics support!" This new card could eat that poor old thing for breakfast!

Edited, Apr 21st 2010 2:49pm by PLDXavier
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#172 Apr 21 2010 at 2:34 PM Rating: Decent
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Update:
I was able to sell the mac pro and just ordered the parts for the 980x build. I took your advice and decided to go for an 800watt pus instead. But here's the problem. The motherboard that I'm getting may need a bios upgrade in order too boot with the 32nm process 980x CPU. That means That I might have to buy a standard i7 CPU and upgrade the bios before I can install the 980x. Is there any way around this? Can I return the standard i7 after I flash the bios?



Sent from my iPad.
#173 Apr 21 2010 at 2:50 PM Rating: Default
malcolmtn wrote:
Update:
I was able to sell the mac pro and just ordered the parts for the 980x build. I took your advice and decided to go for an 800watt pus instead. But here's the problem. The motherboard that I'm getting may need a bios upgrade in order too boot with the 32nm process 980x CPU. That means That I might have to buy a standard i7 CPU and upgrade the bios before I can install the 980x. Is there any way around this? Can I return the standard i7 after I flash the bios?

Sent from my iPad.


A lot of retailers charge a restocking fee that is a percentage of what you paid for an item if you want to return it after the package has been opened. Buying an inexpensive i7 might be an option, but it's still likely to cost you some extra $$$ in the long run. If it's not too late, I'd try sourcing a motherboard that will accept the 980x right out of the box.
#174 Apr 21 2010 at 2:56 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks, it's already shipped and on it's way. Maybe there's a chance that it may ship with an updated bios, do they do that? Otherewise I'm gonna have to buy and return a second chip. I've thought about about using my campus's computer lab, but I'd probably get kicked out for tearing part their **** and putting in mine.

Sent from my iPad.

Edited, Apr 21st 2010 4:58pm by malcolmtn
#175 Apr 21 2010 at 3:03 PM Rating: Default
malcolmtn wrote:
Thanks, it's already shipped and on it's way. Maybe there's a chance that it may ship with an updated bios, do they do that? Otherewise I'm gonna have to buy and return a second chip. I've thought about about using my campus's computer lab, but I'd probably get kicked out for tearing part their sh*t and putting in mine.

Sent from my iPad.


It depends on when the motherboard was manufactured. If it's something that has been sitting in a warehouse for a year, it probably won't have the most current BIOS. If it's something that just rolled off the line a month or two ago, you may be in luck. Hard to say until you try.
#176 Apr 22 2010 at 1:57 PM Rating: Decent
Even still, flashing a bios isn't the hardest thing in the universe :D
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#177 Apr 26 2010 at 7:10 PM Rating: Decent
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so im pretty new to the whole gaming systems but for the past week or so ive been trying to do some research on whats what. i think i found a pretty decent site and built what should be a pretty decent rig to play FFXIV.

•CD: Samsung SH-B083L 8X Blu-Ray Player & DVDRW Combo
•CD2: None
•CAS: * AZZA Solano 1000 Full-Tower Advance Cooling Case w/ Dual 230mm Fan + Extra 3 Fans
•CASUPGRADE: 12in (Blue Color) Cold Cathode Neon Light
•CS_FAN: Maximum 120MM Color Case Cooling Fans for your selected case (Blue Color)
•CPU: Intel® Core™ i7-860 2.80 GHz 8M Intel Smart Cache LGA1156
•CARE1: Professional Wiring for All WIRING Inside The System Chassis - Minimize Cable Exposure, Maximize Airflow in Your System
•FLOPPY: None
•FAN: Asetek 570LX Liquid Cooling system w/ 240MM Radiator and Dual Fans (Extreme Overclocking Performance + Extreme Silent at 20dBA)
•HDD: 1TB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 16MB Cache 7200RPM HDD (Single Hard Drive)
•KEYBOARD: Xtreme Gear (Black Color) Multimedia/Internet USB Keyboard
•MOUSE: XtremeGear Optical USB 3 Buttons Gaming Mouse
•MONITOR: * 24" Widescreen 1920x1080 Asus VH242H LCD w/ Built-in Speaker, DVI, & HDMI
•MONITOR2: None
•MULTIVIEW: Non-SLI/Non-CrossFireX Mode Supports Multiple Monitors
•MOTHERBOARD: * [CrossFireX] GigaByte GA-P55A-UD3 Intel P55 Chipset DDR3 ATX Mainboard w/ 7.1 HD Audio, GbLAN, USB3.0, 2 x SATA-III RAID, 2 Gen2 PCIe, 2 PCIe X1, & 3 PCI
•MEMORY: 4GB (2GBx2) DDR3/1600MHz Dual Channel Memory Module (Kingston HyperX)
•NETWORK: Onboard Gigabit LAN Network
•OS: Microsoft® Windows® 7 Home Premium [+104] (64-bit Edition)
•OVERCLOCK: Extreme OC (Extreme Overclock 20% or more)
•POWERSUPPLY: 800 Watts Power Supplies (* CyberPowerPC XF800S Performance ATX 2.0 Power - Quad SLI Ready)
•VIDEO: ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB GDDR5 16X PCIe Video Card [DirectX 11 Support] [-310] (Major Brand Powered by ATI)
Now i know this isnt the best sytem and like i said im pretty new to this stuff so im open to any comments and suggestions im not looking to spend a small fortune either this setup was just under $1600, this was built off cyberpowerpc.com not sure if its really good site or not just something i kinda stumbled onto, if anyone else has a good site they used to build their own id appreciate it

Edited for faulty link

Edited, Apr 27th 2010 8:50am by cyrusbane

Edited, Apr 27th 2010 8:52am by cyrusbane

Edited, Apr 27th 2010 2:43pm by cyrusbane
#178 Apr 26 2010 at 7:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Threads like this are why i'm going PS3 lol.

Edited, Apr 26th 2010 6:31pm by LebargeX
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#179 Apr 27 2010 at 10:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Hey guys,
Recently built my pc.

If your going with any of the i series, do not get the top of the line version($1k). A bottom of the line can overclock with barely any work and run just as cool with an aftermarket fan.

I have an i7, with the mugen scythe and it works wonders. Takes everything i throw at it.

I have a nvidia gtx 275 that has yet to hiccup except on full antilaising crysis but the quality wasn't much different at all.

Go with the corsair psu's. Mine is solid as can be and cheep at around $100. I got the 700w version

Last but not least, the monitor is the biggest part. If you have a high end graphics card and using a vga to connect to the monitor, you just wasted $100's. Grab a good monitor for around $200 bucks. I went with a Samsung and worth every penny.
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#180 Apr 27 2010 at 11:30 AM Rating: Decent
For anyone building a new system and can afford it I suggest getting a small Solid State Disk(80GB or larger) and a hard drive to store media; Install OS and FFXIV on SSD.

The following link contains a benchmark of WoW load times, it's an older article, but performance of hard drives haven't increased much since then and now we have new SSDs coming onto market that are passing the bandwidth cap of SATA 2.
Understanding SSDs and New Drives from OCZ

I am currently using two 60 GB OCZ Vertex SSDs in raid 0, after experiencing the performance of SSDs I can never go back to using hard drives.



Edited, Apr 27th 2010 3:19pm by Pseudopsia
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#181 Apr 27 2010 at 1:21 PM Rating: Decent
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Good info on the SSD's def seem like they are a worthy investment from what i read. Gives me some mmore time to weigh my options on what i should do when it actually comes down to build time lol also added the video card i plan on using in my above list.
#182 Apr 27 2010 at 1:38 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
Good info on the SSD's def seem like they are a worthy investment from what i read. Gives me some mmore time to weigh my options on what i should do when it actually comes down to build time lol also added the video card i plan on using in my above list.


I notice your system has liquid cooling, personally if I had choices what to spend most in on a gaming system it would be the video card. I would sacrifice cpu power, SSDs, disk space, liquid cooling, and blu-ray just to get a better video card if I was on a budget.

Here's an article from tomshardware, for a $1600 pc he actually suggests two 5850s:
System Builder Marathon, March 2010: System Value Compared. It will play Crysis!


Edited, Apr 27th 2010 4:16pm by Pseudopsia
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#183 Apr 27 2010 at 1:48 PM Rating: Good
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Yet another reason to set aside money and wait on your build until closer to the release.
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#184 Apr 28 2010 at 1:25 PM Rating: Decent
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by the time ffxiv comes out, the solid state HDDs will be dirt cheap. All PC players shall consider to get one because that's the real bottleneck.

it does not have to be large capacity. A 80GB shall work, just for the game.

my 2 cents.
#185 Apr 28 2010 at 2:29 PM Rating: Default
conditionzero wrote:
by the time ffxiv comes out, the solid state HDDs will be dirt cheap. All PC players shall consider to get one because that's the real bottleneck.

it does not have to be large capacity. A 80GB shall work, just for the game.

my 2 cents.


Ya, 80GB is lots for an OS/primary application drive. I've got a few games on mine now in addition to a full Windows 7 Home Premium install, AutoCAD, Firefox, and assorted drivers and applets and I've got just over 20GB to spare. I can remove some of the games I have on it now when FFXIV rolls around and have ample room for it while still be able to use it for less important things (like work ;D) and the performance difference is phenomenal.
#186 Apr 28 2010 at 3:09 PM Rating: Decent
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Yet another reason to set aside money and wait on your build until closer to the release.

^This :)

That's good news for builders on a budget. Such as myself. I'm mocking up to wishlists now, one for those cards and one with what's available now.

I have two questions for the xperts though.

1. RAID help. Not so much what is it but compatability of a SSD with two HDD's in a RAID5 or 10 setup. Assuming different size and manufacturer. I'm not sure that SSD's will be dirt cheap near game time but I think the price of larger SSD's will be around what they are for the smaller ones now. What would you recommend as far as RAID setups go? Do you have one currently? What type of drives are you using?

2. Optimizing for FFXIV. Not saying that I or anyone is building a comp solely for XIV, but what does one consider when optimizing for XIV and online gaming? I would assume taking all the physical load off the system and letting the limiting factor be the speed of the connection. What components/factors help that?
#187 Apr 29 2010 at 10:37 AM Rating: Decent
My previous post I linked an old article. Anandtech has a new article less than a day old with new SSDs. They are using WoW in their gaming benchmark again, which I expect FFXIV load should be similar too given the massive size of MMORPGs. They also include VelociRaptor HDD, one of the fastest HDD, to compare to.

OCZ's Vertex 2, Special Sauce SF-1200 Reviewed

Let the SSD war begin, I want cheaper and better SSDs when FFXIV is released! ^^

Edited, Apr 29th 2010 12:44pm by Pseudopsia
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#188 Apr 29 2010 at 1:42 PM Rating: Good
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1. RAID help. Not so much what is it but compatability of a SSD with two HDD's in a RAID5 or 10 setup. Assuming different size and manufacturer. I'm not sure that SSD's will be dirt cheap near game time but I think the price of larger SSD's will be around what they are for the smaller ones now. What would you recommend as far as RAID setups go? Do you have one currently? What type of drives are you using?


I wouldn’t mix and match SSDs and HDDs in raid 5, it defeats the performance advantage of the SSD and the size doesn't match. Raid 5(stripe+parity) requires minimum of 3 disks, raid 10(mirror+stripe) requires 4 disks. I wouldn't use raid 5 or 10 in a gaming system unless you really have a lot of cash to blow and you have to make sure your motherboard supports it. Raid setup really depends on cost, space and if you care if you lose data. There is nothing stopping you from going crazy and using 4 SSDs in raid 01(stripe+mirror), however that can get very expensive.

HDDs are slow, two HDDs in raid 0(stripe) are slower than a single SSD. Before SSDs were available 2 HDD VelociRaptors in raid 0(stripe) was my setup. Intel’s SSDs have very fast reads and slow writes, OCZs SSDs are more balanced reads and writes. Now I have two 60 GB OCZ Vertex SSDs in my desktop in raid 0(stripe) and two Intel 80 GB Intel X25-M G2 SSDs in my notebook not in raid because notebook doesn’t support it. When I first tried to use an SSD I started with a 60 GB one; I had to manage my disk space; I usually dump media files to my old computers with HDDs. Typical setup for using an SSD is one SSD and one HDD without raid to solve the storage issue at a great value. One SSD on its own is awesome; two in raid 0(stripe) is even faster, but at a greater risk of data loss because if one drive fails all data is lost. You can use raid 1(mirror), but disk space cost will be doubled and your reads and writes will be not be faster.

The following is some example setups without raid and with raid, I used intel’s SSDs in my example because I prefer them since I care really about very fast reads and they are a very good price currently. New SSDs are a little faster, but more expensive. I would watch them because I’m sure price will drop quickly over time.

Budget, I just want to play and btw I can torrent:
1 HDD (for everything) no raid: Slow reads and slow writes and lots of disk storage. If drive fails data is lost you replace and reinstall.
Example: 1x TB Seagate Barracuda HDD $80. 1 TB

Budget, I want fast load times and who cares about disk space:
1 SSD (for everything) no raid: Fast reads and slow writes. You will have to manage disk space with a small SSD. If SSD fails data is lost you replace and reinstall
Example: 1x 80 GB Intel X25-M G2 SSD $218. 80 GB, Note: 2x 40GB Intel Value SSD in raid 0 would be faster at about same price.
Example: 1x160 GB Intel X25-M G2 SSD $415. 160 GB, Note: 2x 80GB in raid 0 would be faster at about same price.

Budget, I want fast load times and I still want to torrent:
1 SSD (OS and favorite games) no raid and 1 HDD (Apps and media) no raid: Fast reads and slow writes on SSD lots of disk storage for apps and media on HDD. SSD fails data is lost you replace and reinstall OS and game; if HDD fails data is lost you replace and reinstall apps.
Example: 1x 80 GB Intel X25-M G2 SSD $218 USD and 1x TB Seagate Barracuda HDD $80, total $298. 80 GB + 1 TB

I want very fast load times and who cares about disk space:
2 SSDs in raid 0 (striped): Very fast reads and fast writes. If one drive fails all data is lost you replace failed SSD and reinstall.
Example: Budget 2x 40 GB Intel X25-V SSD $115, total $230. 80 GB
Example: 2x 80 GB Intel X25-M G2 SSD $218, total $436. 160 GB

I want fast load times, my data is important, and who cares about disk space:
2 SSDs in raid 1 (mirror): Fast reads and slow writes. If one drive fails data is safe, you replace failed SSD and rebuild mirror.
Example: 2x 80 GB Intel X25-M G2 SSD $218, total $436. 80 GB
Example: 2x 160 GB Intel X25-M G2 SSD $415, total $830. 160 GB

I want very fast load times and I still want to torrent:
2 SSD (OS and favorite games) in raid 0(stripe) and 1 HDD (Apps and media) no raid: Very fast reads and fast writes on SSDs; lots of disk storage for apps and media on HDD. SSD fails data is lost you replace failed SSD and reinstall OS and game; if HDD fails data is lost you replace and reinstall apps.
Example: 2x 80 GB Intel X25-M G2 SSD $218 USD and 1x TB Seagate Barracuda HDD $80, total $516. 160 GB + 1 TB

Etc…


Edit: I downed raid 1(mirror) to only fast, in theory it should be able to read from both drives. Looks like you do have to use raid 10 if you want very fast reads with data mirrored.

Ref: RAID Performance on Intel Chipsets

Edit: Two value Intel 40 GB SSD in raid 0 is faster then one 80 GB Intel SSD

Ref: Intel X25-V in RAID-0: Faster than X25-M G2 for $250


Edit: Intel Chipset Driver Brings TRIM Support to RAID Setups
*** Correction: It should be noted that Intel’s announcement about TRIM support only applies to single SSD’s that are present in a system with a RAID array, and not to a RAID array of SSD’s. ***


I installed new chipset driver and that work great... Then I went to update firmware on my OCZ Vertex SSDs and that went horribly wrong. I was able to get the firmware applied a different method, but I lost all data and had to reinstall.

Edit: Since I blew away my data yesterday, I decided take that 60 GB OCZ SSD from my old computer and create an array of 3x disks raid 0. I use OCZ's Sanitary Erase tool to restore max performance to the drives since raid arrays have a lack of Trim. I'm pleased with the results, Windows 7 Pro 64 bit from where windows logo starts to form to login screen takes about 8 seconds. It's so fast now that the logo animation doesn't complete. I ran ATTO Disk Benchmark, writes are maxing out at 400 MB/s and reads are maxing out at 640 MB/s.

Benchmark Results: http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/982/3xoczvertex60gbraid0.jpg



Edited, Apr 30th 2010 10:56pm by Pseudopsia
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#189 Apr 29 2010 at 8:54 PM Rating: Decent
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Final setup for now
Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD7 Motherboard
Intel i7-980X Hexcore CPU
12GB 240-Pin DDR3 RAM
PNY GeForce GTX 480
Corsair 32GB SSD
WD 640GB HDD
Win7 Ultimate x64
Logitech BT Keyboard/Mouse Combo


Staying with the 12GB RAM and keeping the single GTX 480 for now. Grabbed an Antec case and a Corsair PSU, flashed to latest stable firmware, and I'm ready to install Windows and all my other stuff. First thing I want to try after getting things set up is running the FFXI and Heaven benchmarks. And so it looks like I'll have a nice gaming rig that'll last me a good 5 years months.

Edited, Apr 29th 2010 10:57pm by PLDXavier
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#190 Apr 30 2010 at 12:11 PM Rating: Decent
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Thanks psuedo. Very very very helpful.
Quote:
Final setup for now
Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD7 Motherboard
Intel i7-980X Hexcore CPU
12GB 240-Pin DDR3 RAM
PNY GeForce GTX 480
Corsair 32GB SSD
WD 640GB HDD
Win7 Ultimate x64
Logitech BT Keyboard/Mouse Combo


Wow. If you don't mind me asking, what's the price on that beast? I'm still trying to figure out the victor b/w Fermi and Cypress. Why not add another SSD in raid 0 like psuedo was talkin bout? Also, what PSU are you gonna go w/? I'm trying to decide on the one i'ma get.
#191 Apr 30 2010 at 12:21 PM Rating: Decent
aurormnk wrote:
Thanks psuedo. Very very very helpful.
Quote:
Final setup for now
Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD7 Motherboard
Intel i7-980X Hexcore CPU
12GB 240-Pin DDR3 RAM
PNY GeForce GTX 480
Corsair 32GB SSD
WD 640GB HDD
Win7 Ultimate x64
Logitech BT Keyboard/Mouse Combo


Wow. If you don't mind me asking, what's the price on that beast? I'm still trying to figure out the victor b/w Fermi and Cypress. Why not add another SSD in raid 0 like psuedo was talkin bout? Also, what PSU are you gonna go w/? I'm trying to decide on the one i'ma get.


Settle for nothing but the best when it comes to the PSU, get a modular corsair and you will love yourself.
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#192 Apr 30 2010 at 5:58 PM Rating: Decent
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flukedrk the Shady wrote:
aurormnk wrote:
Thanks psuedo. Very very very helpful.
Quote:
Final setup for now
Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD7 Motherboard
Intel i7-980X Hexcore CPU
12GB 240-Pin DDR3 RAM
PNY GeForce GTX 480
Corsair 32GB SSD
WD 640GB HDD
Win7 Ultimate x64
Logitech BT Keyboard/Mouse Combo


Wow. If you don't mind me asking, what's the price on that beast? I'm still trying to figure out the victor b/w Fermi and Cypress. Why not add another SSD in raid 0 like psuedo was talkin bout? Also, what PSU are you gonna go w/? I'm trying to decide on the one i'ma get.


Settle for nothing but the best when it comes to the PSU, get a modular corsair and you will love yourself.


Yeah, after a couple days of research, I went with a Corsair 850W PSU. It might be under-/overpowered (I know so little about PSUs that it's embarrassing), but it's working fine right now. One thing that I did run into as a problem was the motherboard shipped with firmware v1.0, and I needed v3.0+ to support my i7-980X CPU. So I had to find someone that was willing to lend me an i7-920 to update my firmware. Now that I'm updated (to v6.0), it's working great.
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#193 Apr 30 2010 at 7:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Just ran Heaven 2.0 on my new system.

DX9, low shaders, no tessellation, 1 anisotropy, AA off, full screen on (the settings at which my old XI laptop ran avg of 4 FPS) just ran at an avg of 189 FPS with it peaking around 230 FPS.

DX11, high shaders, extreme tessellation, 16 anisotropy, 8x AA, full screen on just ran at 36 FPS with it peaking above 90 FPS.

As for the FFXI Benchmark 3 (high settings),
Vegeta wrote:
It's over 9,000!


I can't give an actual number, because the video reset before I received an actual score. The last number I could see before it quit out on me was in the vicinity of 12,000.

EDIT: Forgot to mention I tested the XI Benchmark on high (mainly because I assumed that was the score to go by >.>).

Edited, Apr 30th 2010 9:07pm by PLDXavier
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#194 May 01 2010 at 12:31 AM Rating: Decent
PLDXavier wrote:

I can't give an actual number, because the video reset before I received an actual score. The last number I could see before it quit out on me was in the vicinity of 12,000.
Edited, Apr 30th 2010 9:07pm by PLDXavier


The video reset on you meaning it completely cut out or just looped into playing it again? If the first one, you might want to check your heat levels. Otherwise, pretty good score for not being able to see the end result.
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#195 May 01 2010 at 4:00 AM Rating: Decent
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I finished building my new PC. Its about 2 times the performance of my 8 core mac pro. I have no doubt that it will be able to handle FFXIV maxed out.

[IMG]http://i669.photobucket.com/albums/vv51/malcolm233391/980x.jpg[/IMG]

Edited, May 1st 2010 6:01am by malcolmtn
#196 May 01 2010 at 12:21 PM Rating: Decent
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flukedrk the Shady wrote:
PLDXavier wrote:

I can't give an actual number, because the video reset before I received an actual score. The last number I could see before it quit out on me was in the vicinity of 12,000.
Edited, Apr 30th 2010 9:07pm by PLDXavier


The video reset on you meaning it completely cut out or just looped into playing it again? If the first one, you might want to check your heat levels. Otherwise, pretty good score for not being able to see the end result.


Yeah, I should have been a little more specific than "it". The FFXI benchmark video ended and went back to the initial settings box (from which you can launch the benchmark test) before the score could settle on a number. I didn't loop the video, but I might try that to get a few scores to average together.
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#197 May 02 2010 at 3:09 PM Rating: Good
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My current plan is to play on PS3 at at launch, gather loads of information on what machines deliver what performance, and grab the rig (or components) on a post-XMas sale. I figure that'll save me at least the price of a PS3, and possibly more. I get the feeling those pushing to build a rig with the info out now are gonna end up building for overkill to be safe. Add that to the fact that PC components cost more now than they will this Winter, and.... well, it's something to think about.

My $.02, since the OP seemed (somewhat) cost conscious.....

#198 May 05 2010 at 9:24 AM Rating: Decent
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My current plan is to play on PS3 at at launch, gather loads of information on what machines deliver what performance, and grab the rig (or components) on a post-XMas sale. I figure that'll save me at least the price of a PS3, and possibly more. I get the feeling those pushing to build a rig with the info out now are gonna end up building for overkill to be safe. Add that to the fact that PC components cost more now than they will this Winter, and.... well, it's something to think about.

That's a good plan but Is XIV the only thing your building ur comp for? Although promsed to be a graphically intensive game, XIV will still be playble by the budget computers of the release time. Most of the rigs I see on this thread will be way overkill for normal XIV play and probably still for max settings. I think this has become more of a rig advice thread than will this play it. You should definately wait till around gametime to build a comp if it's main purpose is XIV. You will have a computer that is competively priced and built to purpose. If you want a good base, build something w/ specs close to a PS3 and you will have a rig that plays XIV beautifully.
#199 May 05 2010 at 9:49 AM Rating: Good
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I'm not very tech savvy at all, but I have put aside a chunk of money to buy a new system closer to the release date. However, there is one thing I'm not sure about.

This computer will be hooked up to our 40 inch tv - this one (I think, we got it last summer). We have it hooked up to our best PC at the moment, but have had some issues. Playing Mass Effect 2 (PC) on it, I had to really lower the resolution settings to help with the various issues the game had on the PC. Computer couldn't handle it on a high res.

I want to be able to play FFXIV at the highest resolution possible on the tv, so what kind of specifics am I looking for in buying? I'm in Canada, if that helps. I haven't built my own computer before, but I have lots of DDR2 ram sticks that I switch between computers when we get new ones to save a bit of money. Not sure if that's a good idea, either, though. I am kind of looking to go in to a store and just buy a system, but my mom recently got a very nice laptop from a place at the other end of town that does sell parts and I may be able to get them to build something. Or I can just go to Futureshop or Staples, too. I really only want to spend about $1000, maybe $1200. Don't need monitor, mouse or keyboard, and will need some ram, but I think I have a 1 gig stick and maybe some 512 that I can stick in if there are enough slots.

My last computer had issues with fans. Bought it from a place here in the city and will never go back there again, they kept insisting that the fans were fine and wouldn't replace them or anything when after 20 minutes of gaming the fans would start a high-pitched whining and I had to turn the computer off every couple hours to cool down.

Not looking for something crazy, just that will play games at max settings for a few years or more. Suggestions of graphics cards, too, would be great. Wouldn't have a problem buying a system outright and asking them to switch in some components before I take it home.
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#200 May 05 2010 at 9:54 AM Rating: Decent
aurormnk wrote:
Quote:
My current plan is to play on PS3 at at launch, gather loads of information on what machines deliver what performance, and grab the rig (or components) on a post-XMas sale. I figure that'll save me at least the price of a PS3, and possibly more. I get the feeling those pushing to build a rig with the info out now are gonna end up building for overkill to be safe. Add that to the fact that PC components cost more now than they will this Winter, and.... well, it's something to think about.

That's a good plan but Is XIV the only thing your building ur comp for? Although promsed to be a graphically intensive game, XIV will still be playble by the budget computers of the release time. Most of the rigs I see on this thread will be way overkill for normal XIV play and probably still for max settings. I think this has become more of a rig advice thread than will this play it. You should definately wait till around gametime to build a comp if it's main purpose is XIV. You will have a computer that is competively priced and built to purpose. If you want a good base, build something w/ specs close to a PS3 and you will have a rig that plays XIV beautifully.


We've touched on that here already...PS3 vs. PC performance specs. I wouldn't recommend anyone aim for PS3 specs and expect it to play FFXIV very well at all. Again, it's a case of developers telling us that an average PC five years from now will handle FFXIV at max settings. An average PC five years from now will be roughly equivalent to or a step up from a very good PC today, and a very good PC today is already thumping the PS3 in terms of specs. PS3 specs don't translate well to PCs because they're different architecture designed for different purposes.
#201 May 05 2010 at 12:58 PM Rating: Good
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OK, after going through my PC building phase (almost done, just need to buy the processor and video card), I've spent around $1500 after taxes (13% where I live).

For price/performance here's what I recommend:

Video card: XFX ATI 5770 $160 - decent card for a good price that you won't mind changing out next year when the current $400-$500 cards become $200 - Tiger Direct - No need to buy more than 2 Video cards unless you're gonna build a muti screen unit as everything starts to cap out at any single monitor solution

Case: HAF 922 $90 (on sale) - Canada Computers

PSU: Ultra 750 watt modular 80% efficiency (Tiger Direct sells it for $131 on sale)

Processor: i5 750 lga 1156 - (reason for this is because this baby can be overclocked higher than other models and until games use more than a couple of cores, higher cores don't mean better game play so price/performance, is better than the i7s right now) $200-$210

MB: Asus - P7P55 D pro - Has most of the current functions. Just lacks 6G SATA (which is kinda pointless for another few years) and USB 3.0 (which is useless period for most people) and a 4th SLI/Xfire slot (has 3), if you want 6G SATA and USB 3.0 tack on $20 and a preimum for a 4th sli/xfire- $179

OS: Windows 7 pro 64 bit OEM - $130 - on sale at Bawawa

Keyboard: Zboard - $32 -Bawawa

Mouse: Cooler Master Sentinal - $50 on sale at Canada Computers

Memory: Corsair XMS3 dual channel 1600mhz 4 gig - free shipping and priced at $120 at newegg

HDD: WD Green 2TB 64MB cache - Was on sale over the weekend at Canada Computers for $120

Misc. extra fans/cooling $40-80 (for case and CPU)

Total prior to tax is $1292.


Edited, May 5th 2010 2:59pm by Aiph
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