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EQ2 and SurnamesFollow

#1 Apr 08 2010 at 6:19 AM Rating: Good
I don't know enough about what SE has said about the surname implementation, so I'm not offering an argument, just a fact.

In EQ2, we had surnames also, you didn't get to pick one until lvl 20. That being said, given (first) names had to be original. Your surname was just something to add something to your character's name, or to denote the guild you were in on screen.

Suppose you had a friend with a character named Lubriderm Handlotion. If you a tell to Lubriderm, that tell would get through. If you sent a tell to Handlotion, it would not. If you sent a tell to Lubriderm Handlotion, it would not either.

Before we know exactly how they are going to implement surnames, we should just calm down.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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#2 Apr 08 2010 at 6:28 AM Rating: Good
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Yes that is how I presumed the names would work, with unique first names, otherwise you could not share your second name with others as SE have said they would like us to be able to do.
Also it makes sending /tells much easier as you indicate.
Why it would be any different from that I have no idea, also Everquest was one of the games SE stated they "looked at" ( borrowed from in other words ) when designing ffxiv.
#3 Apr 08 2010 at 6:34 AM Rating: Good
NumptyHunter wrote:
Yes that is how I presumed the names would work, with unique first names, otherwise you could not share your second name with others as SE have said they would like us to be able to do.
Also it makes sending /tells much easier as you indicate.
Why it would be any different from that I have no idea, also Everquest was one of the games SE stated they "looked at" ( borrowed from in other words ) when designing ffxiv.


Yeah, that's why I posted. Too many people are worried that sending a tell is going to take 3 minutes and that we will have 30 'Clouds' with different surnames.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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#4 Apr 08 2010 at 7:45 AM Rating: Good
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In EQ2, the status window would also only include your first name when you cast a spell, said something, attacked, etc. Well, it would say YOU for you, but the first name for everyone else.

If you look at the screens for FFXIV, they use first name and last name in the chat log. I imagine to send a tell, you will have to /tell FirstName LastName, Perhaps /tell Sup <tab> will let you scroll through Superman Thunderbutt, SuperCloud Megahair, Supersayan Dbzfan and Supermario Lolimcool since those are the people who are on whose names start that way.

I imagine those Famitsu characters are lvl 1 as well, and they already have surnames...

Edited, Apr 8th 2010 1:52pm by shinichoco
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行く河の流れは絶えずしてしかも元の水にあらず。よどみに浮かぶ泡沫はかつ消えかつ結びて久しくとどまりたる例なし世の中にある人と住みかも全くのごとき。 -方丈記
#5 Apr 08 2010 at 8:05 AM Rating: Decent
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shinichoco wrote:
In EQ2, the status window would also only include your first name when you cast a spell, said something, attacked, etc. Well, it would say YOU for you, but the first name for everyone else.

If you look at the screens for FFXIV, they use first name and last name in the chat log. I imagine to send a tell, you will have to /tell FirstName LastName, Perhaps /tell Sup <tab> will let you scroll through Superman Thunderbutt, SuperCloud Megahair, Supersayan Dbzfan and Supermario Lolimcool since those are the people who are on whose names start that way.

I imagine those Famitsu characters are lvl 1 as well, and they already have surnames...

Edited, Apr 8th 2010 1:52pm by shinichoco


Did you even read the OP? In EQ2 there are surnames, to send a tell you do not need to type the surname.
Sending tells has nothing to do with how your characters name is diplayed in the log, if the first names are unique they will automatically go to the person with the correct first name and surname!
Why do you want there to be a system that is more cumbersome to use and only creates problems?

Edited, Apr 8th 2010 10:06am by NumptyHunter
#6 Apr 08 2010 at 8:20 AM Rating: Decent
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The concern Numpty, is that unlike EQ2, Lotro, War, etc... it's been hinted that surnames were SE's solution to the 'allowing users from 11 to port over together keeping their old names despite duplicates'. They needed a secondary key linked to the primary key for each account in their database... so a last name fit the bill. I'm guessing we'll know for sure in a bit actually, but the word on the street persay is that your first and last name are part of your character's unique account key. So, there might be another way of doing it (Starcraft 2 for example uses name.lname) but you might have to get used to the idea.
#7 Apr 08 2010 at 8:22 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Did you even read the OP? In EQ2 there are surnames, to send a tell you do not need to type the surname.
Sending tells has nothing to do with how your characters name is diplayed in the log, if the first names are unique they will automatically go to the person with the correct first name and surname!
Why do you want there to be a system that is more cumbersome to use and only creates problems?


I did. I played EQ2 as well. But we are not talking about EQ2, we are talking about FFXIV. This is the FFXIV forum, right? What was done in EQ2 is not necessarily what is going on in FFXIV and, in fact, it is LESS likely because from the screenshots released of FFXIV you pick your surname AT CREATION. Not at level 20. If you look at the screenshots, the server is identifying the character by first name and last name.

I am simply pointing out observations from FFXIV screenshots, not guessing on what FFXIV has implemented or not based on what some other game did. Everquest 1 had surnames too! So did WoW! So did WAR! So did DAoC... the list goes on, but in none of those cases did the server itself actually identify you by BOTH of your names. Here it is. This COULD mean, that as far as the FFXIV servers are concerned "Bob Jordan" and "Bob Jacobs" are 2 different names for 2 different characters.
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行く河の流れは絶えずしてしかも元の水にあらず。よどみに浮かぶ泡沫はかつ消えかつ結びて久しくとどまりたる例なし世の中にある人と住みかも全くのごとき。 -方丈記
#8 Apr 08 2010 at 8:39 AM Rating: Decent
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shinichoco wrote:
Quote:
Did you even read the OP? In EQ2 there are surnames, to send a tell you do not need to type the surname.
Sending tells has nothing to do with how your characters name is diplayed in the log, if the first names are unique they will automatically go to the person with the correct first name and surname!
Why do you want there to be a system that is more cumbersome to use and only creates problems?


I did. I played EQ2 as well. But we are not talking about EQ2, we are talking about FFXIV. This is the FFXIV forum, right? What was done in EQ2 is not necessarily what is going on in FFXIV and, in fact, it is LESS likely because from the screenshots released of FFXIV you pick your surname AT CREATION. Not at level 20. If you look at the screenshots, the server is identifying the character by first name and last name.

I am simply pointing out observations from FFXIV screenshots, not guessing on what FFXIV has implemented or not based on what some other game did. Everquest 1 had surnames too! So did WoW! So did WAR! So did DAoC... the list goes on, but in none of those cases did the server itself actually identify you by BOTH of your names. Here it is. This COULD mean, that as far as the FFXIV servers are concerned "Bob Jordan" and "Bob Jacobs" are 2 different names for 2 different characters.

Don't patronise me please, you can't say its not EQ2 and then support your argument by using examples form other MMO's, that is hypocritical, besides the thread has EQ2 in the title so I am perfectly justified in discussing it here.
The fact that in the chat log of ffxiv (alpha) both names are shown is irrelevant, because in none of the other games you mention does the issue of being to change your surname to be the same as another player on you server arise as it does in ffxiv, that is the reason why having unique first names would be needed.
Also if first names are unique you can have just a first name if you choose.
If first names are unique you can type in "Bob" and as there is only one Bob it will appear as "Bob Jacobs" automatically in the log.
That explains why you type in just the first name but both can appear in the chat log.
#9 Apr 08 2010 at 8:40 AM Rating: Good
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*smacks head* I am not using other MMOs to support my argument. I am using FFXIV screenshots. Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall.

Quote:
Beta Test Q&A

Q: Do you plan to let players transfer their character name, etc, from the beta test into the final release version of the game? [For people unhappy with the notion of beta testers getting a head start, they seem to only be referring to name/appearance, though it is not fully specified.]

A: We do plan to allow that, but when official service starts we will have to add new worlds and players may have to transfer. We need to put some rule in place in the event a new player chooses the same first and last name as a beta player before the beta player is transferred over.


There are you happy now? SE interview quote implying that First AND Last name are part of the "identifier" for a particular character. Judging from the screenshots and that comment, I am inclined to believe you can have the same first name and different last names, or different first names and the same last name if you felt like it.

Source: http://ffxiv.zam.com/story.html?story=21891

Edited, Apr 8th 2010 2:56pm by shinichoco
____________________________
行く河の流れは絶えずしてしかも元の水にあらず。よどみに浮かぶ泡沫はかつ消えかつ結びて久しくとどまりたる例なし世の中にある人と住みかも全くのごとき。 -方丈記
#10 Apr 08 2010 at 9:07 AM Rating: Decent
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shinichoco wrote:
*smacks head* I am not using other MMOs to support my argument. I am using FFXIV screenshots. Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall.

So you didn't write
Quote:
Everquest 1 had surnames too! So did WoW! So did WAR! So did DAoC... the list goes on

that is using examples of other MMO's.
You feel like you are smacking your head against a brick wall because you refuse to see any other reason for there being two names "first and last" in a screenshot of ffxiv alpha other than we have to type both names in to send someone a tell or after typing part of the name we have to select it from a list of names.
I have told you why and how you can just type the first name.
I have told you why first names may need to be unique.
I have told you the pros and cons of not having unique first names if you can change your surname as SE has stated it wants us to be able to. (We have been discussing it in the "I called it thread")
You have offered no counter explanation other than "In these other MMO's it's not like that" whilst at the same time telling me I cannot mention another MMO that is in the title of the very thread I mentioned it in.
Please feel free to come here with some new information, but I already debunked what you have claimed with a logical argument.
#11 Apr 08 2010 at 9:14 AM Rating: Decent
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shinichoco wrote:
*smacks head* I am not using other MMOs to support my argument. I am using FFXIV screenshots. Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall.

Quote:
Beta Test Q&A

Q: Do you plan to let players transfer their character name, etc, from the beta test into the final release version of the game? [For people unhappy with the notion of beta testers getting a head start, they seem to only be referring to name/appearance, though it is not fully specified.]

A: We do plan to allow that, but when official service starts we will have to add new worlds and players may have to transfer. We need to put some rule in place in the event a new player chooses the same first and last name as a beta player before the beta player is transferred over.


There are you happy now? SE interview quote implying that First AND Last name are part of the "identifier" for a particular character. Judging from the screenshots and that comment, I am inclined to believe you can have the same first name and different last names, or different first names and the same last name if you felt like it.

Source: http://ffxiv.zam.com/story.html?story=21891

Edited, Apr 8th 2010 2:56pm by shinichoco

No you have misinterpreted what is written there, he wouldn't have mentioned the first name if having the same first name was allowed, so obviously having the same first name is not allowed. He is saying they want to find a way for beta players to keep thier same names by making a rule reserving both names for the beta player before they have transfered servers.
Nice self ownage there lmao!

Edited, Apr 8th 2010 11:15am by NumptyHunter
#12 Apr 08 2010 at 9:22 AM Rating: Good
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You know, I want to play this game, but the retards who enjoy Final Fantasy games are so incredibly banal I'm not sure I can handle it.
#13 Apr 08 2010 at 9:23 AM Rating: Decent
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If the same first name was not allowed to be duplicated, then there would really be no reason to worry about the last name as the beta tester couldn't have his name on that particular server then, could he/she? That would make the whole thing a moot point and there would be nothing the devs could do.

And I am just going to stop there, because we could chase each other around the pole for years at this rate.
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行く河の流れは絶えずしてしかも元の水にあらず。よどみに浮かぶ泡沫はかつ消えかつ結びて久しくとどまりたる例なし世の中にある人と住みかも全くのごとき。 -方丈記
#14 Apr 08 2010 at 9:24 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
You know, I want to play this game, but the retards who enjoy Final Fantasy games are so incredibly banal I'm not sure I can handle it.


I'm just bored. Arguing with him gives me something to do. =P
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行く河の流れは絶えずしてしかも元の水にあらず。よどみに浮かぶ泡沫はかつ消えかつ結びて久しくとどまりたる例なし世の中にある人と住みかも全くのごとき。 -方丈記
#15 Apr 08 2010 at 9:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Barkingturtle wrote:
You know, I want to play this game, but the retards who enjoy Final Fantasy games are so incredibly banal I'm not sure I can handle it.

Arguing over things that don't exist yet that nobody has argued over yet is not banal, irritating and tedious yes but not banal. Arguing about male Miqo'te or jumping is banal. Would you like to join in, you are more than welcome :P
#16 Apr 08 2010 at 8:31 PM Rating: Good
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NumptyHunter wrote:
Arguing over things that don't exist yet that nobody has argued over yet is not banal, irritating and tedious yes but not banal. Arguing about male Miqo'te or jumping is banal.


So you were arguing about what you were arguing about, and now you're arguing about the best way to describe the argument?

You realize you're only proving his point for him, right?

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#17 Apr 08 2010 at 8:32 PM Rating: Good
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*gets some popcorn* ;)
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行く河の流れは絶えずしてしかも元の水にあらず。よどみに浮かぶ泡沫はかつ消えかつ結びて久しくとどまりたる例なし世の中にある人と住みかも全くのごとき。 -方丈記
#18 Apr 08 2010 at 10:50 PM Rating: Good
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NumptyHunter, Shinichoco
I m going to put you two in different servers, lets stop the aguing :)

i didnt read what you guys were arguing about

but i just want to point out that i read 1 of the interviews saying that the first names could be the same
so you can be Numpty Hunter and Numpty Choco
or share same last names with different first names, like Shini Hunter and Shini Choco
so if there are 3 siblings or a married couple playing, they could share the same last name.

i think everyone will be frustrated when someone takes the name you've been using for years and now you have to be HumptyHunter instead of NumptyHunter or Shinychoco instead of Shinichoco, the last name will fix that problem, but I still think last names look weird =_="

P.S. please dont take it personal on me using you two's names for example.
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#19 Apr 09 2010 at 12:30 AM Rating: Good
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I already mentioned I was mainly arguing because I was bored. He was a nice fast replier too. I could really care less about names and surnames. It will be like it is.
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行く河の流れは絶えずしてしかも元の水にあらず。よどみに浮かぶ泡沫はかつ消えかつ結びて久しくとどまりたる例なし世の中にある人と住みかも全くのごとき。 -方丈記
#20 Apr 09 2010 at 12:41 AM Rating: Decent
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For some reason I get the feeling the surname will be mostly aesthetic. I think this because of one game mechanic I'm sure will be returning, marriage.

Let's say you have two characters, John Smith and Jane Jones.

They meet, they get married. The game tries to change Jane Jones to Jane Smith.

But wait, there's already a Jane Smith on that server. Does not compute!

To me the system seems very finicky. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how it plays out.
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#21 Apr 10 2010 at 5:03 AM Rating: Good
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Mr. Brick Wall said:
Quote:
No you have misinterpreted what is written there, he wouldn't have mentioned the first name if having the same first name was allowed, so obviously having the same first name is not allowed. He is saying they want to find a way for beta players to keep thier same names by making a rule reserving both names for the beta player before they have transfered servers. Nice self ownage there lmao!



Quote:
FFXIV lets you input both first and last names for your character. The reason for this is that each world will allows multiple players to have the same family name or same first name -- although two players can't have the same pairing of first and last names, of course. This will give players a chance to more easily play using the name of their choice. When using chat, there's a system in place that will make it so that you won't have to input the full name.


source: http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2010/04/10/ffxiv_alpha_beta_schedule/

I'm sorry, really I am, but I just had to say... I told you so.

Edited, Apr 10th 2010 11:05am by shinichoco
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行く河の流れは絶えずしてしかも元の水にあらず。よどみに浮かぶ泡沫はかつ消えかつ結びて久しくとどまりたる例なし世の中にある人と住みかも全くのごとき。 -方丈記
#22 Apr 10 2010 at 6:06 AM Rating: Good
Quote:
When using chat, there's a system in place that will make it so that you won't have to input the full name.


Well, if they implement it decently, this will actually rock. I don't mind the fact that we will have Cloud Stryfe, Cloud Jones, and Cloud Poopypants. These will just be people to avoid.


Signed,

The Future Paul Hargus.
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Edited, Mar 21st 2011 2:14pm by Darqflame Lock Thread: Because Lubriderm is silly... ~ de geso

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#23 Apr 10 2010 at 9:30 AM Rating: Decent
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I was arguing from a hypothetical standpoint, what actually happens or what has been officially stated will occur is irrelevant because the system we actually end up with won't please everyone and in fact it may be a pile of poo.
Also during that discussion new information appeared that changed my opinion, so consider it "thinking aloud".
I think SE is going one step too far to try and please people over the issue of keeping names, it does not need to be the way they want it, that way is too problematic.
It could be much simpler, and they should make first and last names both unique and having a surname should be optional not compulsory.
Yes I am saying "SE you have got it wrong" (Judging by the information I have at this time).
#24 Apr 10 2010 at 12:53 PM Rating: Decent
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"Nice self ownage" is hardly a hypothetical standpoint. It's like I told you, FFXIV is not EQ2, it's not EQ, DAoC, or any of the other MMOs that also have surnames. How they work in FFXIV has no bearing on how it worked in any one of those. You have accused me of being stupid, not reading, or supporting my arguments when, I gave you supporting evidence you never even bothered to consider and when you did I "misinterpreted it". And now you are trying to say that SE is in the wrong for implementing a system you haven't even tried yet! Heaven forbid they try to be different. Maybe you should just calm down and at least give it some consideration before spiting, "You're wrong!" at everything.
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行く河の流れは絶えずしてしかも元の水にあらず。よどみに浮かぶ泡沫はかつ消えかつ結びて久しくとどまりたる例なし世の中にある人と住みかも全くのごとき。 -方丈記
#25 Apr 10 2010 at 7:24 PM Rating: Good
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At first I was 50/50 on surnames, but I'm kind of excited about the idea now. Sure, I see the potential problems... I've said it here before, we're gonna see Cloud Leet, and Tifa Rockshard, and Yuffies Favorite. Which will get annoying pretty fast. We will also see a bunch of Princess _______ and Lord ________, which I really don't mind so much either. Matter of fact I was almost thinking of using a Lord something name myself.
But the idea that has me most excited is the prospect of the group of friends I grew up with in real life all sharing a common surname. Right now it seems like it'll be whatever our planned name is and the street name we grew up on as our last name.
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#26 Apr 10 2010 at 9:24 PM Rating: Decent
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you send a tell using /tell "given" "surname" . I already saw it in the video of the guy that got banned.
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