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Class Problems and Solution? New thought on experienceFollow

#1 Apr 10 2010 at 1:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Please excuse me if my most start to trail off I tend to ramble on an idea. These ideas were formed from the many threads on class speculation and from the most recent "Alpha Test" dev interview.

One thing that I noticed from the most recent interview is that on the picture that displayed the skill page, each stat had two numbers associated with it. The issues following are all very valid but I think the key lies in that picture. If each character and each class had its own set of stats that grew independently of player choice would remedy these problems. Look at the picture, the left pane is basic stats, the right is physical and magical. The number on the left not enclosed by parenthesis cannot be changed and the number in parenthesis is affected by class/playerchoice/exp any number of things.

http://www.zam.com/Im/Image/width=600/162510.jpg

-Being overpowered from leveling one job
-Having to reallocate numerous stat points
-Unbalanced uber class changing
-Inability to play multiple characters because of stat choices

There was one other picture that also backs this theory up a bit. In this picture three things happen, character growth, class growth, and skill growth.

http://www.zam.com/Im/Image/162527.jpg


"Alpha Test gains x experience points" means that your character will grow independently of your class. Further, is it possible that the left pane in the skill page grows as your character grows and the right pane is related to class and independent of character. So each stat (str/dex/vit/mnd/etc) grows no matter what class your on, i.e. the first set of numbers grows because your character gains experience. A high level char may have all base stats of 60. On his way to 60 he was given one point every 5 levels to allot how he saw fit. So his stats may be

str 60(+6)
vit 60(+4)
dex 60(+0)
mnd 60(+2)

This would allow players to customize but wouldn't allow for many things we fear (single stat heavy players, massive point reallocation, etc). From the picture, it looks like character growth will be slower than class growth assuming the log was of a single kill. The character exp was less than that of the class exp.

The next thing is that each class would gain exp and skills independent of the character. "Alpha Test gains x points of Thaumaturge experience". This alludes to a different set of exp which ideally would go to your physical or magical attributes dependent on class. Again referencing the stat picture. If the right pane grew based on your class with the no parenthesized numbers growing as the class grows and the parenthesized numbers being points awarded to the player to choose where to assign them. As seen in the picture, these stats can be highly varied based on the class and every couple levels the player could choose where to put the extra. When you change from gladiator to pugilist, you have another set of base stats and you will have earned extra points to place in those stats correspondent to the time you have put into each job

The last issue I can think of is if you max out gladiator and then decide you want to play archer, do all your level 60 stats stay on your character. I think the best way to handle this would be to implement a system similar to level sync. Your class level limits your character level. That way you start as a nublet again each time you plan to grow a new class. As for the specific points you earned, when you limit yourself you may be able to only use so many at each level. Allowing an experienced player to get a head start and use some of the hard earned extra points.

sorry for the lengthy post. I have a habit of having a big idea that needs a lot of explaining. I hope this makes sense and is not mindless babble. I can't believe SE will let players have full reign on stats but I think they will allow us a good amount of customization. Also I can't think of a reason for two sets of numbers on every stat.
#2 Apr 10 2010 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
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I understand why there would be concern about the stats from a high physical level being transfered over to a low class level but if you put a limit so that your physical stats fit in with your class level what would be the purpose of a physical level separate from a class level?

Only two inconsequential things come to mind:

1. An item or ability of some sort that is unlocked at a certain physical level that you can use at any class level.
2. Bragging rights while leveling a lower level class.
#3 Apr 10 2010 at 1:55 PM Rating: Decent
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There isn't a difference, I suppose I was unclear. The physical and magical levels are correspondent to class and the base stats (str/dex/vit) are based on character.

But even still, it would be for the same reason in ffxi merit points had small effects on low level. Even at low levels you benefited slightly from merit points.

Also, thank you for taking the time to read that text wall :(

Edited, Apr 10th 2010 3:56pm by aurormnk
#4 Apr 10 2010 at 2:24 PM Rating: Good
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When I say physical levels I believe I'm using the word given by SE for what you call character levels (perhaps I'm wrong). Anyway I'm not questioning why you would do it but it really gives no point to the separate levels. Might as well get rid of the physical or character level.

Though, I can think of one more use for your physical, or character, level being separate from your class level. It could be thought of sort of as your mission level from FFXI. It's your physical level that progresses the storyline much as it was your mission level that did it in FFXI. It could also be similar to your fame from FFXI.
#5 Apr 10 2010 at 2:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Now I see what your saying. The difference to me isn't so much on a interclass level as it is on an intraclass level. You do need those stats to grow but you also want those stats to be different on different classes. If they grow differently between different classes then on gladiator and conjurer you will have different stats.

It's like Dex and Acc. Accuracy affects only how likely you are to hit something. Dex does effect accuracy and on a very very basic level can be thought of as accuracy, but it also affects other things such as crit rate.
#6 Apr 10 2010 at 7:01 PM Rating: Decent
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TC what you explained is exactly how I thought things would work out but it seems the points we allocate are the only thing developing our character -- meaning if I level up and got 30 points to allocate to any stat I want, and say I chose all strength, and say base stats for level 1 is 16 across the board so initially i would have:

STR 16
VIT 16
IND 16
INT 16

etc.

After i level up and get my 30 "physical points" (PPs), if i choose not to allocate them my stats would remain the same at 16 a piece...but say i allocate all 30 points toward strength doesn't mean I'll end up with 16+30 for STR stat, but it seems like a certain amount of PPs are required to level up one stat, one point...so say that number is 3 for STR at level 2, for every 3 PPs I allocate toward STR I level up that stat by 1 point (and obviously diminishing returns isn't limited to level, meaning it changes with the stat most likely and not with the level only). Sorry if this is confusing, because i confused myself writing it but this is the best i could explain it.
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#7 Apr 11 2010 at 4:42 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm glad ppl are on the same wavelength as I am. I wonder what else the two number columns could be for
#8 Apr 11 2010 at 5:26 PM Rating: Decent
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"TC what you explained is exactly how I thought things would work out but it seems the points we allocate are the only thing developing our character -- meaning if I level up and got 30 points to allocate to any stat I want, and say I chose all strength, and say base stats for level 1 is 16 across the board so initially i would have:

STR 16
VIT 16
IND 16
INT 16

etc.

After i level up and get my 30 "physical points" (PPs), if i choose not to allocate them my stats would remain the same at 16 a piece...but say i allocate all 30 points toward strength doesn't mean I'll end up with 16+30 for STR stat, but it seems like a certain amount of PPs are required to level up one stat, one point...so say that number is 3 for STR at level 2, for every 3 PPs I allocate toward STR I level up that stat by 1 point (and obviously diminishing returns isn't limited to level, meaning it changes with the stat most likely and not with the level only). Sorry if this is confusing, because i confused myself writing it but this is the best i could explain it."

okay i see what you are saying about stats, but what about gear ?

I would think gear with have stats additions to them adding to your stats depending on various gear.....pure assumption of coarse, but its a general rule for most MMORPGs.

Edited, Apr 11th 2010 7:27pm by coglins
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#9 Apr 11 2010 at 5:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Well I think solid was getting at some sort of merit point type system. Doesnt mean gear can't add stats, just means that the points you earn cost more and more as you raise your stat.

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