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FFXIV on X-box 360?Follow

#52 May 28 2010 at 7:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Given that the current standard for PCs is DVD, and that XI had the same files and graphics between PS2, PC, and 360 (which all played to the lowest common denominator; the PS2, first with CD, then with DVD later), I would imagine that SE will likely release 14 on DVD for PC and PS3. Now maybe 2-3 expansions in, in 3-4 years, we might start seeing an Eoreza Collection on BR (since it will likely be the PC optical media standard by then).

Funnily enough, in that case (assuming the game went tri platform) we'd be hearing "360 Limitations" as the 360 has been replaced my Microsoft's newer console 1-2 years ago and the PS4 is either due for release or has been out for about 6-12 months.

I'd really like to see a tri platform release, if only because more systems means more players, but I do worry somewhat about whether the 360, currently 4 years old, is "getting up in age". Before you say "But the 360 is a current gen console, moron!", remember that the PS2 was roughly 3 years old when FFXI came to PC stateside; 3 1/2 years when it hit NA PS2s, and we have been hearing "PS2 Limitations" for the last 2-3 years now, 6 years later. If that same timeline follows, FFXIV comes out in 2010, and we start hearing "360 Limitations" in 2013-2014ish, unless Microsoft makes their new system backwards compatible and capable of playing 14. I can imagine they probably will since M$ usually tries to make their software backwards compatible whenever feasible (and sometimes when not feasible), but if the PS2/PS3 thing is any indicator, SE made it pretty clear that they never have any intention of dropping PS2 support for FFXI, even though the system is 10 years old (holy crap PS2 came out 10 years ago... I feel old now.)

So I have mixed feelings, I guess.
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#53 May 29 2010 at 6:20 AM Rating: Good
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I'm with you on that one Mik - I like my Xbox but I certainly don't want to be hearing "Xbox limitations" for the next 7 years of an mmo. As it is now, there are bugs with the Xbox version of XI that were never fixed. If it's having a hard time with passing data that a ps2 doesn't choke on, it doesn't bode well for the next generation of Final Fantasy.

I also don't really see that an xbox release guarantees a massive increase of players. How much of the FFXI population is really made up of folks who *only* play on xbox? None of the Japanese, that's for sure. Some NA perhaps but a lot of us have the PC as well. I don't think that the Xbox onry 360 market for FFXIV is really going to be as huge as everyone thinks. The die hard fans will play on PC. The rest of the folks with only a 360 probably aren't as interested in FFXIV as they are in the other games they have the 360 for.

In the end, I'd like to see it come to xbox. But then again, I'd like to see Microsoft release another console in the near future anyway. There's always that - Maybe SE has some insider knowledge that M$ is planning another console and they are using this "policy" thing as a smokescreen so they don't have to support 4 different systems.

A girl can dream, ay?

#55 May 29 2010 at 10:57 AM Rating: Good
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It's not so much a feature as a necessity. There's just not enough space in resident memory to hold everything, and the seek times on optical media just aren't fast enough for a game that isn't offline.

It wasn't an issue for the Ps2 because FFXI was the only game that used the HDD, but it was an issue for folks who were installing to HDD other games on the xbox and only had the 20GB version. I see where you are coming from, but those first gen consoles are getting replaced by the Elite box (I had to upgrade mine after it finally kicked) so it might not be as much of an issue as we think.

An mmo by its very nature is a massive game\world, and playing from DVD\Bluray just isn't going to cut it. I don't see it happening tbh.
#57 May 29 2010 at 11:42 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Dont dual layer blue ray discs hold 50gb of data? I would think that would be more then enough

even world of warcraft with all its exspansions doesnt come to that

Id imagine it still be a partial install though so the game is much faster


As has been mentioned above, it's not the amount of data the disc holds, it's the speed of access. By installing the whole thing to the HDD, you don't have to deal with the longer loading times of reading from an optical drive.
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#58 May 29 2010 at 11:43 AM Rating: Good
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Again, it's not about how much data it can hold, it's about seek time to retrieve the data. A HDD by nature is a faster device than an optical drive. There are more read\write heads, more platters, larger cache, onboard controller... I could get into a lot of technobabble over it, but I don't want this to turn into a wall-o-text.

Suffice it to say - it will run better all around from a HDD than from an optical drive.

And edit - World of Warcraft plays from the HDD, not the DVD

/wink

Edited, May 29th 2010 1:45pm by Torrence
#60 May 29 2010 at 6:11 PM Rating: Good
I guess running things like cutscenes and other cinematics from a disk would be doable,and that would save a nice chunk of console HD space.

But Char models, animations, spell\WS effects, mob models, weapons, armor, music, sfx, quest dialogue, and npcs are all controlled by .dat files that can and do get updated\patched. Keeping these files on a cd would be impossible.
#61 May 29 2010 at 9:15 PM Rating: Good
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Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
I guess running things like cutscenes and other cinematics from a disk would be doable,and that would save a nice chunk of console HD space.

But Char models, animations, spell\WS effects, mob models, weapons, armor, music, sfx, quest dialogue, and npcs are all controlled by .dat files that can and do get updated\patched. Keeping these files on a cd would be impossible.


^ This

90-95% of the game (maps, equipment, mobs, etc) are all things that are subject to change. San d'Oria/Windurst/Bastok/Jeuno get changed for holidays, surrounding areas get new maps added... almost all of old Vana'diel got changed for Treasure coffers, new armor is added all the time... the only thing you could keep on the disk and not install locally is something that would never ever be changed. That means cutscenes and... that's about it. Anything ense in the game is subject to "adjustment" at any given point. And if it needs to be adjusted, it needs to be a writable data storage medium.
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#62 May 30 2010 at 11:19 PM Rating: Default
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Why would anyone want to play an MMo on a machine that does not allow the use of keyboards? Sense, it makes none.
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#63 May 31 2010 at 7:01 AM Rating: Good
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You can use a keyboard on either console.
#64 May 31 2010 at 9:49 AM Rating: Good
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I play ffxi on my x box. All u need is a keyboard with a usb hook up. i use my controller for all the functions and the keyboard just to type.
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#65 May 31 2010 at 9:59 AM Rating: Default
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I wouldn't expect a 360 release for maybe a year after regular release. Also, if you watch the Vanafest video of the chick touring SE, you'll realize at every cubicle there are PS3 controls, but no 360. I don't think it's priority atm.
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#66 May 31 2010 at 11:36 AM Rating: Decent
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From what I understand of FFXIV development. SE is using crystal tools engine which is fully scaleable between pc ps3 and xbox. the PC version is being developed graphically separate from the ps3 version to allow for future tech upgrades. If they can do this for PC so that the ps3 doesn't stagnate the PC's advantages they can most certainly do this between the xbox and ps3. Therefore no console should hold any other platform back in terms of graphical appeal.

What will happen is the amount of system resources available to display/preform game functions will hold the game back in general. If you cant do it on ps3 you can't do it on PC even tho the PC is more capable. THe 360 and ps3 have roughly the same system resources and performance, So if the 360 is holding the game back the ps3 is on par or maybe slightly ahead but not farm behind in not being able to process the requested information.

I've said this many times before. If SE wanted to truly make a MMO that would last for years and be upgradeable they would have made this exclusively for the PC. The trade off for future game vertical expansion for broad spectrum availability far out ways the former. Its the smartest business move to make this game available to as many people as possible, so this means developing a 360 version. (SE even expressed intrust in doing so)

If SE truly has a scalable engine and uses separate graphical assets for the PC and console versions of the game. There shouldn't be much of a limitation like we saw with FFXI. But only time will tell.
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#67 May 31 2010 at 11:40 AM Rating: Decent
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Skeptic wrote:
I wouldn't expect a 360 release for maybe a year after regular release. Also, if you watch the Vanafest video of the chick touring SE, you'll realize at every cubicle there are PS3 controls, but no 360. I don't think it's priority atm.


I don't remember all the shots from the video but aren't both PS3 and 360 dev. units basically PC's? (i know 360 dev units are) or maybe they put out a memo "hide all 360's! sony paid us a ton to not spill the beans of the 360 version til xx/xx/xxxx " =P

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#68 May 31 2010 at 11:59 AM Rating: Decent
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I have a keyboard that clips into the bottom of my controller. It works perfectly and its easy to use, pretty much like a QWERTY keyboard you would have on a cellphone. Plus I find playing on a console is easier to manuever my character and camera angles with a controller.
#69 May 31 2010 at 2:52 PM Rating: Decent
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I have a USB keyboard that came with a Sun dumb terminal; plug it into my 360 and it works just fine.

Overall though, I do agree that in therms of making a game that will last a long time, you either need to make it computer only, or phase out console support after a certain amount of time.

And having totally separate graphical systems for each platform is just silly; it would require the skinners and mappers to do twice the work, meaning new updates take twice as long. As much I'd love to not hear (Console) Limitations, the only way to get around that -IS- to develop stuff for the other platform(s) (namely, PC and whatever newer consoles are supported) and just totally leave the old one behind, telling the older console users "Y'all can keep playing, but if you want to play any new expansions, you need newer ****." Since SE has said that a large portion of their JP playerbase played on PS2s, that was never going to happen. And anyone looking forward to 14 who hasn't played 11: If you think SE is going to **** off their JP players, you're mistaken. Welcome to your new JMMORPG.

Conversely, 360 is more of an NA/EU console than JP, so the likelihood of SE dropping support from a console that is primarily used by NAs is -much- higher than dropping the first choice of the JP. But then, maybe they anticipate the fact that they would run into "360 Limitations" in 2-4 years and are heading that off by not supporting 360 in the first place.

All in all, the graphics engine for FFXIV beta doesn't look THAT much better than 13 that the 360 couldn't handle it, but for the few people who still have older 360 models with smaller HDDs, they would likely run out of disk space really soon after the 2nd or 3rd expansion. I don't have XI installed anymore but I do remember that the all 4 expansions plus ACP (I never bought the other two addons) on top of the game was pretty large. For that matter, so was WoW plus two expansions. Not that big of a deal on a 120 GB 360 HD; possibly encumbering on a 60 or lower, depending on how much of your HD you have filled already. I get the feeling that 2-3 expansions down the road, players on 360s with smaller HDs won't want to hear "You need to either delete some ****, upgrade your HD, or change platform", especially since there are some people who apparently want to (or think they should be able to) run the game from disk with no install at all, and the game isn't even -out- yet.
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#70 Jun 01 2010 at 3:26 AM Rating: Good
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Conversely, 360 is more of an NA/EU console than JP, so the likelihood of SE dropping support from a console that is primarily used by NAs is -much- higher than dropping the first choice of the JP. But then, maybe they anticipate the fact that they would run into "360 Limitations" in 2-4 years and are heading that off by not supporting 360 in the first place.


360 Limitations... that's kind of a scary thought.

This makes me wonder a few things though. SE has said they want XIV to be more or less future proof... would the 360 be the next ps2?
But then again, SE has also said they want XIV to be on the 360, soooo.... Smiley: confused

This problem really wouldn't be solved by making the next gen 360 backwards compatible either. SE can't expect their entire 360 playerbase to switch to the 360 v2, anymore than they could have expected the ps2 players to move to the ps3.
#71 Jun 01 2010 at 8:47 AM Rating: Decent
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Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Quote:
Conversely, 360 is more of an NA/EU console than JP, so the likelihood of SE dropping support from a console that is primarily used by NAs is -much- higher than dropping the first choice of the JP. But then, maybe they anticipate the fact that they would run into "360 Limitations" in 2-4 years and are heading that off by not supporting 360 in the first place.


360 Limitations... that's kind of a scary thought.

This makes me wonder a few things though. SE has said they want XIV to be more or less future proof... would the 360 be the next ps2?
But then again, SE has also said they want XIV to be on the 360, soooo.... Smiley: confused

This problem really wouldn't be solved by making the next gen 360 backwards compatible either. SE can't expect their entire 360 playerbase to switch to the 360 v2, anymore than they could have expected the ps2 players to move to the ps3.


Merely releasing the game on a console is already setting the game up for "CONSOLE LIMITATIONS" If SE wanted to make the game future proof they would forgo any console release and only launch for the PC. PERIOD!

releasing for 360 wouldn't hold the game back any more than releasing it on ps3. the engine is scaleable to what hardware it is running on. That means. the weaker console gets less poly count, lower res textures, closer draw distance and poorer performance in greatly populated areas.

Both the PS3 and 360 are fairly equally matched in processing power and system resources. Of course you can find devs that say ps3 is more powerful but you can find just as many who say 360 is more powerful.

The fact of the matter is the ps3 is to FFXIV as the ps2 is to FFXI. Adding 360 to the equation doesn't change that fact by a large margin if any at all.


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#72 Jun 01 2010 at 9:03 AM Rating: Decent
SE knows that if they were to ship XIV without PS3 support, they'd be making the game inaccessible to a very significant number of their Japanese playerbase. Not shipping with XBox support would have a far lesser impact. Sony could probably have bent SE over the proverbial pickle barrel with licensing fees and all kinds of other nonsense if they so chose and SE would have almost had to go along with it because of the impact it would have had on their local customers. I would surmise that most of the people who would prefer to play XIV on the 360 also have access to a PC on which they could play. One is an issue of necessity in a country where PCs are not really considered gaming platforms. The other is largely a preference issue.
#73 Jun 03 2010 at 6:56 PM Rating: Good
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SevenLittleChipmunks wrote:
Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Quote:
Conversely, 360 is more of an NA/EU console than JP, so the likelihood of SE dropping support from a console that is primarily used by NAs is -much- higher than dropping the first choice of the JP. But then, maybe they anticipate the fact that they would run into "360 Limitations" in 2-4 years and are heading that off by not supporting 360 in the first place.


360 Limitations... that's kind of a scary thought.

This makes me wonder a few things though. SE has said they want XIV to be more or less future proof... would the 360 be the next ps2?
But then again, SE has also said they want XIV to be on the 360, soooo.... Smiley: confused

This problem really wouldn't be solved by making the next gen 360 backwards compatible either. SE can't expect their entire 360 playerbase to switch to the 360 v2, anymore than they could have expected the ps2 players to move to the ps3.


Merely releasing the game on a console is already setting the game up for "CONSOLE LIMITATIONS" If SE wanted to make the game future proof they would forgo any console release and only launch for the PC. PERIOD!

releasing for 360 wouldn't hold the game back any more than releasing it on ps3. the engine is scaleable to what hardware it is running on. That means. the weaker console gets less poly count, lower res textures, closer draw distance and poorer performance in greatly populated areas.

Both the PS3 and 360 are fairly equally matched in processing power and system resources. Of course you can find devs that say ps3 is more powerful but you can find just as many who say 360 is more powerful.

The fact of the matter is the ps3 is to FFXIV as the ps2 is to FFXI. Adding 360 to the equation doesn't change that fact by a large margin if any at all.


Well, like I said in an earlier post:

Mikhalia wrote:
Before you say "But the 360 is a current gen console, moron!", remember that the PS2 was roughly 3 years old when FFXI came to PC stateside; 3 1/2 years when it hit NA PS2s, and we have been hearing "PS2 Limitations" for the last 2-3 years now, 6 years later. If that same timeline follows, FFXIV comes out in 2010, and we start hearing "360 Limitations" in 2013-2014ish


The 360 is -currently- older than the PS2 was at the time FFXI was released for PS2. Consoles do have plenty of staying power (I still play my NES and SNES; the consoles still run the games I own for them just fine) and will run until their little motors die out, but this mostly applies to offline games. Once you enter the realm of online gaming, especially MMOGs, you have a playerbase who will expect new things from time to time.

Now the possibility, however unlikely, always exists that Microsoft and/or Sony (and/or Nintendo, for that matter, not that the Wii factors into this) could discontinue support for their consoles. And again, before anyone insists that will never happen: back in the Genesis era, no one ever thought Sega was going anywhere. And before Nintendo of Japan's deal with Atari fell through (Atari was originally supposed to be the sole distributor of the FDS in the US, until NOJ formed NOA and did it themselves), Atari held a staggeringly high market share and was pegged to practically monopolize the country over any competition from Jaguar/Colecovision/etc.

Back to my point: if MS or Sony ever closed their doors, or even just discontinued online service in their games, it would cripple a massive part of the playerbase and force them to pic a new console. However, that would be impossible to anticipate.

CONVERSELY, It is SE's responsibility when publishing an MMOG to pump out periodic updates. And we all remember the words "PS2 Limitations" which basically meant "One console is holding us back from doing **** on the other platforms, and we don't want to push out updates to certain platforms and leave one behind."

The 360 and the PS3 are currently the top tier of consoles, but if you'll think back about a decade (or less) to when you upgraded from your PS1/N64 with its blocky, although still impressive 3D, and were greeted with exceptionally superior PS2 graphics... remember the feelings you had; the thoughts that this console was a powerhouse that was here to stay.

And in all fairness, it still is. Unless you don't take care of your stuff, or got unlucky, your PS2 is probably still running fine. And while you may shudder at how "bad" those graphics are after Halo 3 or CoD4, remember that there was a time when THAT was top of the line. And in a few more years (Mayan apocalypses notwithstanding), there will be a NEW "top of the line"

Fifteen years from now, when those of you who are constantly ******** about how stupid and lame your parents are will have teenagers of your own to tell you how stupid and lame you are, your 360 and PS3 will be sitting wherever your PS1 and N64 are now, be it a basement TV, a spare bedroom, packed away in a box, or long since sold at a pawn shop or a flea market. You'll still have a computer though. And assuming M$ doesn't go anywhere, Windows 12 will probably still be able to run those old games that you bought for Windows 7.

Now I'm not totally advocating against console/computer support; I like having a varied playerbase. I'm simply saying that unless SE drops consoles over time, if they keep their current "Support everyone till we shut off the servers" plan, they stifle XIV's upper limits. Of course, we could be playing FFXXV Online by then, so who knows.
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