Forum Settings
       
This Forum is Read Only

Skill vs. Class Skill RankFollow

#1 Apr 11 2010 at 8:15 PM Rating: Good
**
736 posts
So. Kinda' pseudo got touched on in another thread, but I think it kinda' warrants it's own.
http://ffxiv.zam.com/story.html?story=22042

Hand-to-Hand skill reaches 36 in the middle of a battle,
but, Thaumaturge class skill rank increases to 2 after receiving 9 points of Thaumaturge experience at the end of the battle.

Thoughts?







Edited, Apr 11th 2010 10:19pm by Zemzelette
#2 Apr 11 2010 at 8:16 PM Rating: Good
**
437 posts
H2H skill = weapon skill just like it did in FFXI, Pugilist skill = the job skill itself?
____________________________
行く河の流れは絶えずしてしかも元の水にあらず。よどみに浮かぶ泡沫はかつ消えかつ結びて久しくとどまりたる例なし世の中にある人と住みかも全くのごとき。 -方丈記
#3 Apr 11 2010 at 8:22 PM Rating: Good
**
736 posts
But what does that mean, exactly? Why split them up?
I can see wanting to make sure mages don't get hosed because they don't usually use their weapons but still need to gain access to new abilities. That explains why everything isn't attached to mid-battle skillups of the weapon itself.

But that doesn't explain why the whole enchilada isn't just shifted to the end-of-battle? Anti-Powerlevel measure (because a friend can help you get Class Skill Rank but skill is something you have to build)? A Way to make sure your not using parties that are too big too often (because the faster something dies the less opportunity you get to get hits in)? Hints of a seesaw mechanic (separating them out so they have something to exercise a limitation on that won't cause you to un-learn the abilities you've already learned)?





Edited, Apr 11th 2010 10:51pm by Zemzelette
#4 Apr 11 2010 at 8:27 PM Rating: Good
**
437 posts
I imagine that your H2H skill determines your weapon dmg and accuracy, your job rank would determine what your H2H skill caps at and what skills you learn from the job. There was one screenshot with an archer with 48 or 8-something archery skill.

Edit: Oh, raw H2H skill probably also determines what weapon skills you can use.

Edited, Apr 12th 2010 2:28am by shinichoco
____________________________
行く河の流れは絶えずしてしかも元の水にあらず。よどみに浮かぶ泡沫はかつ消えかつ結びて久しくとどまりたる例なし世の中にある人と住みかも全くのごとき。 -方丈記
#5 Apr 11 2010 at 9:07 PM Rating: Good
***
2,614 posts
My guess: the second screen is after completion of a guildleve, not a battle. I figure you gain weapon skill during battles and as a bonus for completing a leve.

I agree that it makes no sense to split them up. Even in FFXI it made no sense except as an extra timesink. You were never "getting ahead" by skilling up, like you were by leveling. You were just catching up to where you were supposed to be. It sucked from a psychological standpoint.
#6 Apr 11 2010 at 9:20 PM Rating: Good
**
437 posts
I'm going to disagree here.

As I mentioned before, I know I saw a screenshot with an Archer gaining archery skill in either the 40s or the 80s, I don't remember which and the current cap for job levels is 20.

Next, Gladiator--
can use a TON of different weapons. Just because I level my gladiator with a sword, does that mean I should be able to switch to dagger/one of their other weapons and do just as well? I imagine conjurers get an elemental magic and a healing magic skill as well.

What if instead of H2H skill I referred to it as H2H proficiency. Does it make more sense then?

Edited, Apr 12th 2010 3:22am by shinichoco
____________________________
行く河の流れは絶えずしてしかも元の水にあらず。よどみに浮かぶ泡沫はかつ消えかつ結びて久しくとどまりたる例なし世の中にある人と住みかも全くのごとき。 -方丈記
#7 Apr 11 2010 at 9:34 PM Rating: Good
**
264 posts
Hmmmm, I think its fairly straight forward.

Physical Level is your stats.

Class Rank is your abilities, spells, and maybe passive traits.

Weapon Skill is your proficiency with that weapon. (could also be related to weapon skills)

Why a difference between weapon skill and class rank? How about the fact that some classes if not all have a primary and a secondary weapon/tool? So I might be a rank 5 gladiator, but I could also have a weapon skill of 6 on my sword and a shield skill of 2. Or Cooking rank 10, but frying pan skill of 15 and oven baking skill of 5 (lol made up the tools, couldnt remember what Culinarians use). I think that definitely validates its existence, but I can also see that they did not have to do it that way. I don't know..... more customization...... an extra level of class development?
____________________________
I also want double eyepatches, to increase my pirate bravado.
#8 Apr 11 2010 at 9:50 PM Rating: Good
***
2,614 posts
shinichoco wrote:

I'm going to disagree here.

As I mentioned before, I know I saw a screenshot with an Archer gaining archery skill in either the 40s or the 80s, I don't remember which and the current cap for job levels is 20.

Next, Gladiator--
can use a TON of different weapons. Just because I level my gladiator with a sword, does that mean I should be able to switch to dagger/one of their other weapons and do just as well? I imagine conjurers get an elemental magic and a healing magic skill as well.

What if instead of H2H skill I referred to it as H2H proficiency. Does it make more sense then?


I'd like to see that archery screenshot, if anyone can find it.

You could be right, but I think it's a bad idea. When a game splits up stats or skills, it's because they're supposed to be independent in some way. FFXI, for instance, had a weak reason for doing this, but it still had a reason: multiple classes tended to use some of the same skills, so leveling a skill on one job gave you an advantage, in theory, when you switched to another. (In reality it usually only meant you were slightly more powerful than you otherwise would have been for about 20 minutes after leveling up. The only place where having a skill leveled from another job came in handy was on the pain-in-the-*** skills like evasion, and I think we can all agree that that wasn't an ideal situation).

In FFXIV, your weapon is fundamentally tied to your job. You can't switch to another class and fall back on the same weapon. Your job level is your weapon skill level. Why separate them?

About Gladiator's multiple weapons, that's never quite sat right with me - in particular the bit about them using daggers. I know what it says in the class description, but I find it hard to believe they would turn a basic weapon type used throughout the series into just another sub-weapon for a starting class.

Something I noticed on the site is that in the "Arms" section for Gladiator, just below the Overview that mentions daggers, it describes the Gladius, Hawktail, ******* sword, Scimitar, and two kinds of shields - no mention of daggers. All of those are pretty similar one-handed swords and it would be bizarre (and really really annoying) to split them all up into different skills.

Even pugilist has seven different weapon types highlighted, but notice that in the screenshot we're all talking about it just says "Hand-to-Hand skill."

Edited, Apr 11th 2010 10:51pm by Borkachev
#9 Apr 11 2010 at 9:56 PM Rating: Good
**
437 posts
I've been looking for it, but I'm pretty sure it was leaked so I don't think it's up anymore =(

Edit: Found it I will PM you the link.
Edit2: Whoops, looks like I misread that. Says in increases by, not increases to hehehe.


Edited, Apr 12th 2010 4:02am by shinichoco
____________________________
行く河の流れは絶えずしてしかも元の水にあらず。よどみに浮かぶ泡沫はかつ消えかつ結びて久しくとどまりたる例なし世の中にある人と住みかも全くのごとき。 -方丈記
#10 Apr 11 2010 at 10:04 PM Rating: Good
**
736 posts
Mind you, almost every class can access a variety of weapons.

It's just that some of these are things we classically associate with other classes (dagger) and some of these we don't (claws). We're more likely to think Gladiator will have a separate dagger skill, but we don't typically think Pugilist will have a separate claw skill.

So far, there's nothing that supports the idea that these differing weapons or spells will be associated with differing skills. The character screen only shows class skill rank and physical level.



Edited, Apr 12th 2010 12:13am by Zemzelette
#11 Apr 12 2010 at 12:25 AM Rating: Good
**
257 posts
Maybe the thaumaturge was close to level up?
____________________________
FFXI(retired 04/2006): Epedemicoptikz, Phoenix Server, 75 SAM/NIN/WAR

#12 Apr 12 2010 at 7:08 AM Rating: Good
*
107 posts
When we are talking about the skills and levels we need to consider the new element, the Effect Gauge. (#5 under Guildleve and Battle System)

I'm guessing that may have more to do with a character's skill and how effective they are at using the weapon. Maybe the higher a character's skill is with the weapon, the easier it will be for them to manipulate the Effect Gauge in their favor.
____________________________
FFXI Hazero, Elvan PLD, retiered.
CoV, King Ghidora, Dominator retired
AoC, Mecha Ghidora, Dark Templar retired
Tabula Rasa, Super King, Grenadier retired
SWG, Hazero Ghidora, retired
DCUO, Crushlordian Earth Tank Retired
#13 Apr 12 2010 at 11:06 AM Rating: Excellent
*
204 posts
Why is everyone assuming that there are two separate skills when the status screen only shows one? 'Hand-to-hand' is all that appears and since it's just Elmer's translation and not the official one I'm assuming h2h skill = pugilist rank.

Additionally, seeing numbers in the 80s is likely progress toward the next rank, not the current total.
____________________________
The More You Know 三☆
This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 18 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (18)