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#1 Apr 15 2010 at 1:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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I had an idea about weapons that I thought I would run past the community.

I think it would be better for me to simply give an example of what I'm trying to say than actually say it so here we go. I like great katanas so I'll be using that as an example and assume that we'll be able to "unlock" a SAM much like we did in FFXI. During your quest to unlock the SAM you get a rusty great katana. This sword seems to be well constructed and seems to have immense power so you set yourself on a quest to restore it. At the end of the quest you have the rust removed and you get your level 1 great katana and the ability to use it. The item description would read something like this:

Quote:
Rust-Free Great Katana
Level 1
Damage: 5-8
You removed the rust from the sword...it seems to have great potential.


However, this didn't restore it's full power, simply made it usable. At level 10 you get another quest that further restores its power, changing its appearance slightly and increasing its stats to match that level's requirements.

Now it reads something like this:

Quote:
Trusty Great Katana
Level 10
Damage: 15-21
+1 STR
You've restored some of it's power but it's yearning for more.


This would occur every 10 levels or so and as you continue the quests your sword would grow in power and the history of the sword would come to light. In between quests you'd probably replace your sword with another one or two but when the next quest comes along you switch back.

The final product would be something like:

Quote:
*japanese name of a sword*
Level 70
Damage 90-112
+20 STR
+200 HP
On Hit: 20 Fire Damage
Chance on Hit: Stun

Your Sword was forged by the artisans of *some great guild of blacksmithing* for the greatest and final King of *some long dead country*, *some name of a king*, who died only because he didn't have this sword by his side. You and the sword have come a long way together, it will never leave your side.


The best part is as the game progresses more quests can come to further augment the sword. The whole point of this is to create bond with the weapon much as was the case when swords were used as it will stay with you for the entire your entire career as that specific class. It addresses the problem with WoW in that you feel like your work is for nothing since you raid and raid for weapons only to be replaced with the next one and it addresses the problem of FFXI where many people find it too daunting to gain the relic weapons since it takes forever and a half to do. It's a sword that you'll replace every now and again but you'll always go back to it as it's power increases. The same process can apply for every weapon type (and class) and even armor.

So that's the idea that just came to me, what does everyone think?

Edited, Apr 15th 2010 2:26pm by Yogtheterrible
#2 Apr 15 2010 at 1:35 PM Rating: Decent
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I think along the whole storyline aspect this could add a whole different dimension to the game, one we haven't really seen in any game. I know it is wishful thinking, but if they took this idea and cultivated it even further, by allowing us to choose how it looks in the final forge with color, size, shape etc it would really complete the feel of this game being built for the players. We already have character customization and class development that is looking to be fairly open, why not have some sort of weapon uniqueness as well?
#3 Apr 15 2010 at 1:43 PM Rating: Decent
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Immediate recall of the Nightmare of Excalibur from FFXI upon awaking............


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#4 Apr 15 2010 at 1:52 PM Rating: Good
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I'd just say that is a great idea. This game is very focused on the weapon at hand, and maybe instead of unlocking jobs, you unlock weapons. One other thing I would add, instead of the stats that you listed, even though they are great, add a weaponskill, much like relic
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#5 Apr 15 2010 at 2:01 PM Rating: Good
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Its a cool idea, and I think I would like it better if the "quests" involved the powerful bosses in the game, as in the "End Game" bosses or content. One problem I see with this is there probably won't be much endgame content when the game first begins, so maybe they could hold this type of thing until later when the game has more bosses and endgame content. If the quests that you speak of to enhance the power of the sword (in your example) was simple quest like limit break quest in FFXI, I think it would take away the purpose of fighting the big bosses in the game. Basically I would personally (my reference) want the best stuff be dropped or obtained from the challenging end game bosses or events. So it could work perfectly, it would just depend on what type of quests it was that would further enhance the weapon.

I always thought relic weapons in FFXI, should come from killing every hnm in the game, instead of doing dynamis a million times. With your plan, everytime new bosses are added, they can just enhance your sword slightly more each time, without breaking the game.

Edited, Apr 15th 2010 4:05pm by HocusP
#6 Apr 15 2010 at 2:07 PM Rating: Good
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This is a great idea!

To even further it would be cool to support that with crafting. Maybe you start with a base sword and upgrade the hilt which gives better handling adding more accuracy. Then you upgrade the blade to a hard metal that does more damage. Maybe this goes a bit into the item customization thread, though. Then you add some poison to do extra damage or cause some effect.
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#7 Apr 15 2010 at 2:23 PM Rating: Decent
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MuadibAsura wrote:
This is a great idea!

To even further it would be cool to support that with crafting. Maybe you start with a base sword and upgrade the hilt which gives better handling adding more accuracy. Then you upgrade the blade to a hard metal that does more damage. Maybe this goes a bit into the item customization thread, though. Then you add some poison to do extra damage or cause some effect.


Absolutely, involve the crafters. You could even intertwine a similar system with the crafters that involve these weapons and armors so you both discover the origins and power of the weapon simultaneously with the crafter gaining a reward of some kind. Kind of make crafters and fighting classes interdependent on one another.

I actually made a thread a couple months back about weapons and armors being completely customizable by crafters. It would be nice to have a weapon and armor creation system much like character creation.


Oh, and about the stats and such, I really was just giving an example, the specifics would depend on the game mechanics.

Edited, Apr 15th 2010 2:24pm by Yogtheterrible
#8 Apr 15 2010 at 2:46 PM Rating: Decent
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I like the idea of weapon upgrades. Maybe work similar to Drk quest with Deathbringer > Chaosbringer. Or like WSNM/Mythic WS. In a similar fashion a weapon that eats Exp.

For example when equipping these certain weapons they will put a hold on users exp and c.exp gain, and absorbs that exp into the weapon. As that weapon gains enough points it can either lvl up or cap and can be upgraded at some NPC. Also ultimate forms having unique ws attached to them be even greater.

Although as stated above, can see this being a type of EndGame quest, even if there are different stages. I like exp gain on it even if it starts at 1000 exp for first upgrade and final upgrade be something similar to being on Floor 1 of Nyzul. Yes may take a long time, but I personally would rather do this than doing the dynamis way.
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#9 Apr 15 2010 at 2:48 PM Rating: Decent
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Great idea, There are alot of potential.

Things such as the Dragon Age Awakening sword. Where the choices you make, alter the sword. So that my lvl 70 GKT of pwnage is not the same as eveyrone elses.

Perhaps, a system like this could even turn into the relic weapon system of FFXI, just more attainable to the average *******. Instead of every 10 levels, make it, whenever you have the dollars or time for a quest you can upgrade the weapon. And, of course, the quests to get much more difficult as you level.

The concept of having a weapon, and forging a bond with it is fantastic. Heck, they could base a whole game off of devoting your career to increase the weapons stats ultimiately.
#10 Apr 15 2010 at 3:27 PM Rating: Good
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I am hoping that they allow weapon stats (and even do this with armor) something that is transferrable from one model design to another. Possibly even make the rare uber drop item be a raw type of material, and the player brings it to a crafter who forges it in the wearable piece and there are different ways the item can look based on the base ingredients. I grew tired of every end game player starting to look the same, holding the same weapons, etc. If they want true diversity among the players, let two people be able to equip something with the same stats, but have different looks. Let the players decide how they look aesthetically. That was one of my biggest beefs with FFXI. They kept adding all these neatly designed weapons and armor, but since they weren't as good as the uber items, you still saw too many people all dressed the same.
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#11 Apr 15 2010 at 4:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Harri wrote:
I grew tired of every end game player starting to look the same, holding the same weapons, etc. If they want true diversity among the players, let two people be able to equip something with the same stats, but have different looks.


I know what ya mean. I like the idea of a weapon that can be upgraded in different stages, and would be even nicer if you could choose different paths. Like with each upgrade it'll give 3 paths maybe suiting the way you want to customize your character even further. And being something like lvl 1 weapon as first upgrade similar to dynamis dropped base weapons. Then with each upgrade lvl requirements could be say, 20 > 40 > 60 > 80 > 99 or something along those lines, then also give you a chance to use other weapons in between upgrades, plus allows you to make it into your ultimate weapon with stats that you chose.

Idk what starting cap is gonna be when Xiv comes out but as each cap increases so can the weapons cap. I think Xi upon release was 50 cap?
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#12 Apr 15 2010 at 6:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Another means of producing the same outcome as my OP would be to have a weapon similar to Cloud's sword in Advent Children, the one that could be broken apart and reassembled. Instead of finding a weapon and restoring it over the entirety of your career you could instead find/make additional parts to add to the original. You could have both options, either go out on an epic quest to find the original add-on or go on an epic quest to find the plans and resources to make a copy of the original. I think this type of weapon would go best with a class that can dual wield and use 2h weapons as you'd be able to split the weapon into two and dual wield them.
#13 Apr 15 2010 at 11:13 PM Rating: Decent
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It's a good idea, unlikely to occur, but still a good idea. The Dark Cloud series of RPG basically has you level up your weapon instead of your character. You would level up your weapon and synth attributes onto it making it stronger, and once it met certain conditions it was allowed to evolve into a new type of weapon; you could also synth old weapons onto new ones. While the stats you could level up were somewhat arbitrary (the majority of them were just "elemental" strengths, doing more damage to undead, lizards, fire enemies etc.) it was still a fun system to use. It gave the feeling that you were truly using a legendary or special weapon because it is one that you had spent a long time building up and not simply purchased or found off a dragon corpse.
Harri wrote:
I am hoping that they allow weapon stats (and even do this with armor) something that is transferrable from one model design to another. Possibly even make the rare uber drop item be a raw type of material, and the player brings it to a crafter who forges it in the wearable piece and there are different ways the item can look based on the base ingredients. I grew tired of every end game player starting to look the same, holding the same weapons, etc. If they want true diversity among the players, let two people be able to equip something with the same stats, but have different looks.

Personally, that is a feature I'm very much against that type of feature. I like models to represent a functional component; I'm not very fond of the whole trend towards superficially customizing everything you own. If everyone is wearing the same gear at end game, then in my opinion there is a more serious problem with he design of the game, and that model changes would be nothing but a band aid covering it up.
#14 Apr 15 2010 at 11:55 PM Rating: Default
i think this really is a great idea. i think these quests to upgrade the weapons should also be tied in with the lore of the job, similar to the artifact quests. except instead of starting so late into the job have it start right away. have the first quest to unlock the weapon like you said, and then each quest thereafter allows you to customize it a little bit more each time.

the problem i see with this system is that there would then be no market for crafting weapons, unless these upgraded weapons were only the be all end weapons once they were fully upgraded.
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#15 Apr 16 2010 at 9:32 AM Rating: Decent
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My thought on that would be not to make the weapon very powerful until the very end of the game. Each upgrade simply makes it usable for a few levels after which you'll need to replace it with another weapon. Plus as suggested earlier you could actually involve crafters in the process of upgrading your weapon.
#16 Apr 16 2010 at 11:10 AM Rating: Decent
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I do like the idea very much, but like others am doubtful we'll see anything like that. I'm sure SE would find some way to mess it up big time, like making the lvl. 10 enhancement only attainable after getting a 5% R/EX drop off a level 50 NM with a 24 hour respawn time.
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#17 Apr 16 2010 at 3:33 PM Rating: Good
Can I name my sword Murasame but ignore its zanpakuto because I think I'm too powerful to rely on a tool and then fall in battle when it fails to hear me because I've ignored it for so long? Or is that already taken.


Oh ps, in all the Suikoden RPGs you don't get new weapons, you just get blacksmiths to sharpen your weapon. In some you add weapon runes to add bonuses and in others you add rune fragments that add elemental affinity.

Edited, Apr 16th 2010 2:35pm by digitalcraft
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#18 Apr 16 2010 at 4:53 PM Rating: Good
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I seriously doubt we are going to upgrade weapons in the FFXIV game.

If I am a crafter and I cannot create weapons to sell to the community, what is the point of leveling a crafter in the first place? Free weapons from quests may be OK for beginning levels, but after that, I'm going to want to make sure the crafters have a market. After all, they are going to work very similarly to the fighting classes. Need to make it worth leveling one or no one will do it.
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#19 Apr 16 2010 at 6:42 PM Rating: Decent
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shinichoco wrote:
I seriously doubt we are going to upgrade weapons in the FFXIV game.

If I am a crafter and I cannot create weapons to sell to the community, what is the point of leveling a crafter in the first place? Free weapons from quests may be OK for beginning levels, but after that, I'm going to want to make sure the crafters have a market. After all, they are going to work very similarly to the fighting classes. Need to make it worth leveling one or no one will do it.


I don't see why everyone is under the impression that I think SE is going to use this for FFXIV...it's just an idea I had. I've already addressed where crafters fit in...so I wont repeat it.
#20 Apr 17 2010 at 12:23 AM Rating: Good
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Would Disciples of the Hand/Land get similar equipment? I wouldn't mind an epic fishing pole, frying pan, pickaxe, etc.
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#21 Apr 17 2010 at 1:58 AM Rating: Default
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The more I see new ideas for what FFXIV 'could' become, the more I hope everything stays like it was in FFXI. Giving everyone an epic weapon at level 1? Wth.

Get to end level -->> do easy quest -->> have finished epic. Meh

I hope it's as hard and time consuming getting an epic in FFXIV as it was in FFXI. Everyone running around endgame with the best weapon is kind of lame. Your gear, your weapons, your abilities are measures of how awesome and how hardworking you are. If everything is achieved with minimal effort, they are mostly meaningless. I want maybe 1-5% of the population running around pimped out, not 95%.

That's just my viewpoint of course. I still think this is a cool idea for an 'average' weapon and something that beginners and mediocre players shouldn't have too hard of a time with. But for a pimped out pwnsauce weapon, leave those for the elite few per server who have the dedication and skill to achieve them.

I don't agree with the Dynamis system for epics, so don't get me wrong on that. I think that's a little rediculous. I would prefer maybe a slightly harder version of how FFXIII did it. Having to use materials to 'experience up' your weapon to give it better stats, then using difficult to acquire catalysts to transform it.
#22 Apr 17 2010 at 2:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:

I don't see why everyone is under the impression that I think SE is going to use this for FFXIV...it's just an idea I had. I've already addressed where crafters fit in...so I wont repeat it.


Do you seriously mean to tell me that if you took the time, the effort and the gil to raise blacksmithing to 50, which in theory should take as long to get to as it would lancer to 50.... maybe it won't.... not in Alpha can't say, that you would say, "Wow! I'm 50! I can finally work on some uber sword that some long dead smith from some dead country made 1000 years ago!" and be happy about it? Surely not. You would want to be the one making those uber swords.

Now, perhaps I implied that the best things in the game should be crafter made and I don't necessarily fully agree on that, but I should think that crafters should have a role in creating the most powerful items since they are an actual "job" equal to any other, according to this system that SE is making.

Should the "endgame" for a blacksmith be repairing everyone's uber weapons? I should hope not or it would be a pretty sad end for someone who likes to craft. Having items that are permanent and upgradable hurts the crafting classes, it does not help them.
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#23 Apr 17 2010 at 7:50 AM Rating: Decent
ShonaSeraph wrote:
The more I see new ideas for what FFXIV 'could' become, the more I hope everything stays like it was in FFXI. Giving everyone an epic weapon at level 1? Wth.

Get to end level -->> do easy quest -->> have finished epic. Meh

I hope it's as hard and time consuming getting an epic in FFXIV as it was in FFXI. Everyone running around endgame with the best weapon is kind of lame. Your gear, your weapons, your abilities are measures of how awesome and how hardworking you are. If everything is achieved with minimal effort, they are mostly meaningless. I want maybe 1-5% of the population running around pimped out, not 95%.

That's just my viewpoint of course. I still think this is a cool idea for an 'average' weapon and something that beginners and mediocre players shouldn't have too hard of a time with. But for a pimped out pwnsauce weapon, leave those for the elite few per server who have the dedication and skill to achieve them.

I don't agree with the Dynamis system for epics, so don't get me wrong on that. I think that's a little rediculous. I would prefer maybe a slightly harder version of how FFXIII did it. Having to use materials to 'experience up' your weapon to give it better stats, then using difficult to acquire catalysts to transform it.


I agree with the majority of this post, except the part that there should only be 5% uber geared. That leads to elitism and you get that WoW effect all over again. By making things a tad more accessible, this alleviates that disgusting behavior.

Edited, Apr 17th 2010 9:51am by flukedrk
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#24 Apr 17 2010 at 10:29 AM Rating: Decent
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I'm not of the opinion that crafters should be the ones to create the most powerful weapons. Maybe a part in their restoration or completion or whatever but I like seeing the best weapons have some sort of history or special origin to them. Otherwise they are no more special in my eyes as a level 14 weapon that is mass produced.

Also, I wasn't a fan of the fact that most of your gear in FFXI you had to buy from the AH at exorbitant prices. So yeah, I think crafters should be involved in the end game weapons but not letting them have sole ownership of them. I think it cheapens the endgame if all you have to do is shell up some money to buy the best gear in the game.
#25 Apr 17 2010 at 10:51 AM Rating: Default
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Not a bad idea, but it is unlikely that this would happen.

Though if it is possible, I'm all for it :P
#26 Apr 17 2010 at 12:45 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I'm not of the opinion that crafters should be the ones to create the most powerful weapons. Maybe a part in their restoration or completion or whatever but I like seeing the best weapons have some sort of history or special origin to them. Otherwise they are no more special in my eyes as a level 14 weapon that is mass produced.

Also, I wasn't a fan of the fact that most of your gear in FFXI you had to buy from the AH at exorbitant prices. So yeah, I think crafters should be involved in the end game weapons but not letting them have sole ownership of them. I think it cheapens the endgame if all you have to do is shell up some money to buy the best gear in the game.


Whoever said anything about having sole ownership of them?

The point is if I introduce weapons that are upgradable from any level that do not deteriorate over time like all the weapons and armor will do in FFXIV eventually, it's not implemented in Alpha yet from what I hear, those items automatically become better than anything a vendor or player crafter can make simply because 1) I don't need to repair it, 2) upgrading it requires a quest, not a purchase of a new weapon. This also means that this one quest weapon will compete with every item a blacksmith can make for that class at ALL levels. Who would buy a GKatana from a smith when they can have an upgradable non-degrading katana from a level 1 quest... and now you want to give every job one of these weapons?

FFXIV is, in theory, going to be more casual that FFXI was. This should mean, granted it doesn't actually mean, that crafting items should be easier to obtain, thus craftable items will likely be cheaper to make which should result in cheaper prices. Also, with degrading, weapons and armor will need to be cheaper as they will need repairs, and possibly replacing at later stages. I don't forsee the god-awful pricing we saw in FFXI. But then I don't know what SE is cooking uo to replace the AH either.
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#27 Apr 17 2010 at 1:48 PM Rating: Good
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Umm...I never said anything about it not deteriorating over time. That's the mechanic we have in FFXIV I don't see why it shouldn't work the same way with these quest weapons. Of course you'll need to repair it.

As for the rest of your post you obviously don't read what I write...wont bother repeating myself.

Edited, Apr 17th 2010 1:49pm by Yogtheterrible
#28 Apr 17 2010 at 2:01 PM Rating: Good
Seems to me if you had a setup like this, you would do the same thing as with merits and have hard to get diminishing returns on upgrades at endgame. Put in lots of work, get +1 speed bonus, put in other lots of hard work, kill raid boss, get some rune, get +1% effectiveness against fire based creatures, etc. No reason that you'd just have to have segmented "at level 75 you get quest X and that is the final upgrade and everyone gets that same one".
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#29 Apr 17 2010 at 2:07 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm still personal fond of the most "uber" weapons not being that much better than base level crafted gear, maybe better stats but base damage being kept close. That way there is still plenty of insentive to upgrade but you don't feel like your ******** your party over for inviting someone with a sword they may have been useing for over a month.

Quest weapons could just be another facite in a system like that, find a cool quest weapon and decide to jump through the hoops to bring it up to speed instead of getting a party together to kill some NM for a random drop.
#30 Apr 19 2010 at 1:52 AM Rating: Good
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I like this idea. It has so many ideas running through me head.

For instance, let's say two SAMs start building their katana at the same time and the same pace but one of them uses theirs to kill orcs more often and the other uses theirs to kill let's say goblins more often and the katanas become effected by that. I dunno how but it's still a cool idea. I hope SE has implemented something like it.
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#31 Apr 19 2010 at 11:52 AM Rating: Default
the only way something like that would work is if instead of a specific type of monster, the weapon was affected by a more generic set of rules. for example, you fight a lot of mobs with high defense, your weapon gains a piercing effect so you can do more damage to mobs with high defense, if it has high evasion, you become more accurate against evasive types. etc etc.
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#32 Apr 19 2010 at 12:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Epic class weapons were introduced in Everquest 2 around level 80 and the one thing I didn't like about them was that in most cases it was the ultimate best weapon for your class, making all other weapons pointless once you had your epic. Also they were all the same. No matter how much lore I read or how much RP I did, I was constantly aware that my "super special rare epic weapon" was the same thing that everyone else at my class and my level had.

What I do like about the OPs idea is the notion of caring for and bonding with a weapon/instrument/wand throughout the life of a character. That would rock.

I really enjoyed playing the Dark Cloud series, too. So I could see a lot of great potential for "growing" and nurturing our weapons.

Anyway, the point I am getting at is that as long as the weapon has the potential to be modified as it "grows", and unique (for example one THF goes for a sneak mod, and the other goes for a DEX mod), then I think that system could work really well because it allows us to really get into caring for our items, without forcing everyone to choose the exact same path for their weapons.

I could see a lot of fun as people debate on the forums how best to mix and match mods and what paths to take to properly nurture certain weapon types, etc...
#33 Apr 19 2010 at 2:11 PM Rating: Decent
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This reminds me of a quest in one MMO i played. At lvl 10 you could do a quest for a ring. and at every 10 levels after that there was another quest based of the same NPC that you got the ring from. Each quest had something to add for the ring, which in the end i found to be the best ring for almost every class i played (there were a few exceptions).

There were several pieces of gear i that had quest similar to that.

In another game i played, there was gear in which you could do a simple quest to aquire some base gear. There was an NPC that would augment the gear if you had a gem of the power you wanted added to the gear. Each piece could have 3 augmentations to it, either some resistance stats, hp, mp, str , agi, sta, dex, wis, cha, armor rating, and what not. Each addable attribute had its corrisponding quest. I liked this, in that you could customize your own personal combination of 3 stats to any peice of gear by chosing which 3 quest you wanted to do.

My experience with this, has shown me that it can be very fun (I love quest) and noone is unhappy with the reward, because they get the reward, basically, of there choosing.

I am all for gear or weapons that you can augment over time as your character grows.
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