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#1 Apr 15 2010 at 4:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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Has there been much information on how group play will work compared to FFXI? One thing I like about FFXI is that it almost forced you into groups for a majority of situations and you couldn't simply solo all the way to 75 on just any job. The problem was the system they had for forming these groups was a complete failure. I'm hoping that the direction they are taking is that soloing will be more viable in FFXIV but grouping with others will still be the ideal choice. With that I hope they vastly improve the means players are able to group together and eliminate the main complaint that surrounded it, wasted time.

Just some examples of what I hope to see in a decent group feature.
*Ability to seek party on multiple jobs simultaneously
*Ability to seek for specific quests/missions
*Ability to designate your ideal role(s) on the job your seeking (healer, tank, DD, support) so people can actually customize the job to the play style they enjoy and others can see the role they are willing to play. (Ex. one person can be seeking as a tank gladiator while someone else could be seeking as a DD gladiator or DD AND Tank)
*More intuitive search system
*An autogroup feature that doesn't suck, you can flag the jobs and roles you are willing to play, hit a button and you are thrown in a queue where the server will assemble an appropriate group, and the ability to transport said group to members to a meeting location or the location of one of the members.
*Autogroup that allows a party to grab a person out of a seek queue automatically and teleports that person to said party.


Edited, Apr 15th 2010 5:08pm by Harri
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#2 Apr 15 2010 at 5:10 PM Rating: Decent
The forced grouping that we saw in FFXI will be replaced by a significant amount of solo content and an abundance of content that also benefits from or requires groups. Group onry is a failed MMO concept that only looked good on paper.
#3 Apr 15 2010 at 5:21 PM Rating: Good
The One and Only AureliusSir wrote:
The forced grouping that we saw in FFXI will be replaced by a significant amount of solo content and an abundance of content that also benefits from or requires groups. Group onry is a failed MMO concept that only looked good on paper.


I partially agree, grouping was ok until some classes became super duper invite without seeking necessities. Back in NA launch, there was always something to do, nowadays it's literally a ghost town with the FoV and Level Sync.
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#4 Apr 15 2010 at 5:31 PM Rating: Good
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That is the exact reason I stopped playing. During my "golden age" of FFXI I never had a problem getting parties but after signing on after 1+ years away, it was just flat out empty. Dunes, Qufim, Kazham....I couldn't take any new jobs anywhere because there was no one to fight with.
#5 Apr 15 2010 at 5:49 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only AureliusSir wrote:
The forced grouping that we saw in FFXI will be replaced by a significant amount of solo content and an abundance of content that also benefits from or requires groups. Group onry is a failed MMO concept that only looked good on paper.

I wouldn't say that. Grouping as a best option is obviously the best choice. What made FFXI's method of grouping bad was much like the gil problem: A lack of variety. A specific number of jobs were needed and a specific set-up was needed. This left out jobs in XP parties and especially Endgame. Doesn't help that SE made very large TNLs and not enough EXP/hr to justify non-optimal setups.
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#6 Apr 15 2010 at 6:04 PM Rating: Good
CarthRDM wrote:
The One and Only AureliusSir wrote:
The forced grouping that we saw in FFXI will be replaced by a significant amount of solo content and an abundance of content that also benefits from or requires groups. Group onry is a failed MMO concept that only looked good on paper.

I wouldn't say that. Grouping as a best option is obviously the best choice. What made FFXI's method of grouping bad was much like the gil problem: A lack of variety. A specific number of jobs were needed and a specific set-up was needed. This left out jobs in XP parties and especially Endgame. Doesn't help that SE made very large TNLs and not enough EXP/hr to justify non-optimal setups.


Not needed...desired. People largely didn't enjoy the xp grind, which led them to demand optimum everything or they weren't interested in taking part. "Get it over with ASAP or don't do it at all" seemed to be the mantra. And the entertainment to be had in a group was fully negated if you couldn't get a group. It didn't even have to have anything to do with requiring optimum setups...no tank or healer available = no group. Then what? Go farm? No. Hence, group only is a failed concept. It's built around the idea that you're always going to be able to find a group when you want to take part in most of the game's content, which has been proven time and again in one MMO after another is an entirely unreasonable assumption. Even in WoW which has hands down one of the most sophisticated and efficient PvE group forming tools in MMOs today, damage classes can often wait upwards of 20 minutes to be placed in a group. Compared to a 3-4 hour wait as was often the case in FFXI (if you could find a group at all), that's fantastic. When it's 20 minutes out of the hour you had available to play, it's terrible.

Grouping is important to MMOs, but so are abundant solo options.
#7 Apr 15 2010 at 6:27 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only AureliusSir wrote:

Grouping is important to MMOs, but so are abundant solo options.
Yeah, I'm not saying I hope FFXIV is group only. I already assume it won't be from the sounds of it. But I hope that there is still a big enough advantage to grouping up over soloing to at least encourage people to party and learn how to play their jobs in a group setting as they level. I was an avid soloer in FFXI (75BST should give that away) but it wasn't because I didn't like partying or grinding. It was because I could log in and get stuff done without having to wait hours to even get a chance, especially if you aren't playing a highly desired job like a RDM or BRD. You are right also about the problem of the game almost requiring certain setups and gear level in order to move along at a decent pace which created a lot of the elitism that was rampant in FFXI.

Edited, Apr 15th 2010 7:27pm by Harri
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#8 Apr 15 2010 at 6:36 PM Rating: Good
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I've never played WOW, but only a 20 min wait compared to what a typical DD wait in FFXI was sounds fantastic.

I agree with some of the OPs points. I'd like to see a better pairing system for group play. Maybe by making the size of the group an option it will be easier to get into them,
if it's not going to be like XI where to get the "most" out of a party you needed a strict set-up of 6.
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#9 Apr 15 2010 at 6:56 PM Rating: Good
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You can only solo so much, problem starts really when you have leveled up your char. This is the real dilemma, should one be force to group to experience end game content or not ? If you are allowed then its defacto a "single game" cloaked as an mmo. On the other hand if you _have_ to group to experience end game content then its to bothersome for some players that want to play solo. Sure you can divide the content so that solo and raid should be viable, but how do you value the reward then ?

If I as a solo can kill a NM and get a sword, how powerful should that sword be ?
If I in a raid of 18 people kill a NM and get a sword, how powerful should that sword be ?

For me logically, since you had to get 18 people to kill that NM (assuming you can't kill it with less) then it should be 18 times more powerful then the sword that you can get single hand-idly. I know this is a bit overkill :D, but what do you think ? How much more powerful should an item/armor/xxx be if attained threw single play(solo) compared to raid (18ppl) ?


Edited, Apr 16th 2010 12:55pm by Maldavian
#10 Apr 15 2010 at 7:28 PM Rating: Good
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*Autogroup that allows a party to grab a person out of a seek queue automatically and teleports that person to said party.


I haven't played FFXI in a couple of years now, but I distinctly remember the presence of an autogroup flag. It looked like the average LFP flag, the only difference being that it was yellow instead of green. When enough people within the same region had the autogroup turned on, it would join them together as a party.

The problem was that no one used it, and it was poorly (if ever) explained in detail. I wasn't even aware of such a thing for the longest time, and I don't think I ever saw it actually work because I never saw anyone using it--save for the one occasion I saw a /anon japanese dude walk by while I was passing through Konshctat.

Edit: Moreso in the earlier years than now, but in a game like FFXI an autogroup feature would never have worked in the first place. While the necessary setup for a party wasn't quite as strict as people might claim, it's true that the only way to effectively create a party consisting of abnormal job roles is to have people who are actively aware of what they're doing. People put together in an autogrouped jalopy of a party in FFXI are likely not going to work very well together. For example, when I hit 75 as PUP I decided to level monk to 37 in order to work on Guard and Throwing skill, the idea being that a 75PUP/37MNK would have a much easier, if still ridiculously slow, time raising Guard because the automaton would have no issue in keeping me alive. Coincidentally, I managed to get Throwing as PUP from 0 to cap but never got guard more than halfway. When I hopped back onto my monk, which was only 20, I had forgotton how much nonsense was involved in making a low level party. I put a few points into evasion, went out into Qufim and solo'd worms (slow but fun as heck) while piecing together a party. Even at that level, there were quite a few nifty pieces of gear that went lengths towards an evasion build, and a MNK/WAR has a ludicrous amount of ways to hold hate. I decided that I was going to tank my way to 37, for no reason other than I knew I didn't have to wait around for hours to get a paladin or ninja. ****, I never even liked having ninja tanks at any time before they get their Ni elementals.

Because I was already out punching worms by myself, it was never any difficulty to get people out and ready to duo some mobs while I was still building the party. It became an incremental process, slowly stepping up from duoing to trioing and eventually having a full party together, without any downtime waiting for everyone to get together. And even if someone was unsure of having a monk as a tank, the time it took to discuss and persuade them was a nonissue because I was already out getting experience. And ****, in my opinion a monk tank is the only tank you need in Yuhtunga--mandragoras hit like pansies and you can get in so many counters. However, that's not something your everyday monk is going to be prepared for. I had specifically planned out an extra set of gear for evasion and tanking, as well as put some merits into evasion, so I knew I would perform well. I imagine a great number of monks would probably be hesitant to tank at all, and even less eager to pick up some extra gear for the job. This is due to two things, I think; one, monk is primarily seen as a DD, and the abilities and traits it gains that work for tanking are assumed for the purpose of dealing with too much hate. Two, there are other jobs that have the tank role clearly placed in their hands, whether by SE (Paladin) or the community (NIN). Because of this a lot of monks might not ever think themselves able to hold the mob's attention and live.

When a leader picks and chooses his members, he normally has a clear idea of what he needs for where he intends to take the team. I knew I was going to tank as a monk and I knew where I was going to do it, so I could invite people that would support me until I found an actual tank to relieve me of that duty. Autogrouped parties would be disorganized, with no cohesive idea or direction other than to get EXP and level up, and therefore defeated before they even start by the simple nature of the game. An autogroup in FFXIV, even if it remained exactly the same as far as functionality goes, would be leagues ahead of what we're familiar with because of how many roles any given class seems to be able to fill. Even if you got stuck with a bunch of Disciples of War that were something other than a Gladiator with top of the line defensive gear and nothing but points pumped into VIT and HP stats, the roaming, party-versus-party gameplay would likely be able to accomodate your ragtag autogroup of adventurers such that you'd still perform exceptionally.

Edited, Apr 15th 2010 9:51pm by Ennyam
#11 Apr 15 2010 at 7:31 PM Rating: Good
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The tendencies in most MMOs is to go solo over grouping. I just hope that there is enough incentive-- not necessarily forcing, but a little advantage/reward if you do-- that it makes people who like to solo willing to group up to do things if groups are looking for people and available.
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#12 Apr 15 2010 at 8:15 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
*Ability to seek party on multiple jobs simultaneously


THIS. THIS. THIS.

I can't express enough how much I hated not being able to do this in XI. Nothing sucked more than having your flag up on a unpopular job that couldn't solo well. I know soloing will be easier in XIV but I would still like the option of seeking for a class while doing things on another higher level one.
#13 Apr 15 2010 at 8:40 PM Rating: Decent
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I agree that there should be a good amount of Solo friendly things to do along with things that can only be done as a group.

The parties in FFXI gave me some of the most fun I ever had in the game, along with some of the worst problems. The parties where a complete social construct and you ability to do anything was really based on mutual agreement.

Like optimal party set up and what jobs you 'should' have and what jobs could and could not do was social based...even where you go to level. Having 6 people doing anything will always require some from of agreement amongst the group.

But some of the most fun parties I had been a part of came from doing things 'wrong'. Once I Subbed WHM as a PLD to be the main healer of a party since we couldn't find any WHM or RDM. Or the best was Me as a Taru BLM being the main healer to our Galka DRK tank....and we made it work! If you can get a group of people to really try new and different things (good or bad) you can end up having alot of fun.

I think FFXIV's party set up ranging from 2 to 15 or something like that is to help promote creativity in people and not make things so ridged. That said...I do hope they have a really easy way of looking up anyone who wants to party or do specific quest and all that.
#14 Apr 16 2010 at 12:48 AM Rating: Decent
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Group play is an absolute must. Although, I fear my (and most other FFXI vets I would guess), play time has and will see a succinct decrease, it is still a very valuable tool. It gets one accustomed, socialized and seeing the world. Also, it allows you to truly max out your jobs capabilities, letting you get to know what it is trully capable of.

That being said, a realistic solo mechanic offering reduced XP, but easy accessibility would help the acceptance of FFXIV. Heck, a good solo mechanic would be very nice. I'm sure we all spent many hours farming in FFXI, so, farming and making a little side XP would be a nice perk to advance our 'toons during those off-days/-weeks/-months, when grouping for 6 hours at a time is simply unrealistic.
#15 Apr 16 2010 at 1:29 AM Rating: Decent
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I hope there is good incentive to group much of/most of the game. Soloing is nice ot get things done on your own, but I play an MMO to...play with people, not alone. The whole "solo to level cap then learn how to really player your class" thing bugs me, if I'm not playing with people ever why am I playing an mmo? I'm not bashing solo viability, it should be there and it shouldnt be painful, but lets please not forget abut groups until endgame.
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#16 Apr 16 2010 at 2:44 AM Rating: Good
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Soloing is nice, but being able to do it in a MMORPG to cap is disgusting >.>
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#17 Apr 16 2010 at 3:42 AM Rating: Good
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From what I gathered there will still be major benefits to grouping in XIV. Soloing will be completely possible but I think it's more targeted for the casual / time constricted crowd. I know that there will be instances where groups will still be necessary including guildleves.

They've also expanded the party size for 6 to 15 so that leads me to believe theres going to be a wealth of group related content we havn't even begun to hear about yet.
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#18 Apr 16 2010 at 6:03 AM Rating: Good
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The large party size leaves me hopeful that the accepted definition of a "party" will be much looser in XIV.

On XI there are many events that are designed specifically for either 6 or 18 people, and not a lot in between. There are a few based on 3, but not many and mainly low level. A typical xp party will always strive to be a full set of 6.

It's only really since the introduction of the likes of level synch and FoV that more very low man decent exping options have become easily viable without using specialist jobs. Some other events scale, but not often very well.

Personally, I love soloing, duoing and trioing as much (if not more) as I do being in a party of 6 or an allaince of 18. I like having variety and challenge in differing circumstances. I'm really hopeful that there will be lots of challenging activities for very small groups, as well as for solo and larger groups in XIV. Certainly, if solo activities are there from the get go, duo, trio and quad parties should also work pretty well.

I'm also interested in how well >6 parties will mesh. I've lost count of the number of times on XI that an xp party I've been in or wanted to join has been full, denying me the option of partying with friends unless disbanding and starting from scratch. I've also lost count of how many times an xp party has ground to a halt because we've lost a party memeber or two. If party size is less rigid, there could well be much more flexibility in adding and losing party members on the fly, without affecting party performance.

All in all the possibilities are very exciting.

Time will tell for sure :)
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#19 Apr 16 2010 at 8:40 AM Rating: Good
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The tendencies in most MMOs is to go solo over grouping. I just hope that there is enough incentive-- not necessarily forcing, but a little advantage/reward if you do-- that it makes people who like to solo willing to group up to do things if groups are looking for people and available.


I've got to dissagree. Solo was always the least favorite aspect of FFXI for me. I always liked to have others to group with, if it was for exp or even to farm. I'd rather duo or trio with a group on a job I didn't really care to use than to solo on the job I was looking to play on. All that said, I'd like to see it broken down so that there is more to gain from a party, but solo is still an option to grow.

It's reasons like this I'll be hoping for the ability to seek on a job/class that you aren't currently using.
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#20 Apr 16 2010 at 8:50 AM Rating: Good
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Gii wrote:
Personally, I love soloing, duoing and trioing as much (if not more) as I do being in a party of 6 or an allaince of 18.
Just from my personal experience, I'd love to see more viable duo/trio content. If others are like me, they had 2 or 3 "close" friends in game that they'd do a lot of activities with. Sometimes finding those 4th, 5th and 6th members to fill out a group, especially when you are doing some obscure activity could be difficult, even from within the LS. Even when those friends were not on, trying to get just people from LS to do things was like pulling teeth. Normally wasn't too hard to get 1 or 2 people to jump on board but anything after that was a bother. An overall variety is the ideal. I enjoyed all the content for various group sizes in FFXI, but sometimes I felt there wasn't enough for the low-man groups. You had EXP/merits, Assault/Nyzul(my personal favorite), MMM, BCNM etc for party event. Sky, KSNM, Limbus etc for alliance. Dynamis, Einherjar, Sky and Sea (in the early days) for huge groups. There was a pretty good variety there for anything 6+ sized groups.

Edited, Apr 16th 2010 9:52am by Harri
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#21 Apr 16 2010 at 9:12 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Just from my personal experience, I'd love to see more viable duo/trio content. If others are like me, they had 2 or 3 "close" friends in game that they'd do a lot of activities with. Sometimes finding those 4th, 5th and 6th members to fill out a group, especially when you are doing some obscure activity could be difficult, even from within the LS.


This.

Agreed %100. I'm truly hoping that the idea of having bigger parties means that smaller ones can get more done.
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#22 Apr 16 2010 at 10:19 AM Rating: Good
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I just can't imagine how they'd put together a group seeking system that didn't allow you to select the role you'd prefer to play. Even if you set aside the ability to transfer abilities from one class to another, most of the classes all by themselves are naturally multifunctional. Seeking by class just doesn't manage to cover their bases.

I'll also add that I'd like to see the comment area return.
Not that I particularly liked how it was most commonly used in XI. In XI it was a catchall to makeup for any functional shortcomings the search system had that snowballed into a bizarre sort of resume in response to the competition for party spaces. I'd prefer a much more robust search system and I'm secretly hoping the party structure is so fluid the high competition is reduced to acceptable levels, so I wouldn't like to see that particular practice return.

However, as a pure function, it's a surprisingly effective way to get a short message across, which is nice in a game full of human beings. Letting potential helpers know you indeed have the key items necessary for a quest is awfully handy, for instance. Even outside of actively searching for a group it can be kind of nice, sort of like leaving an AFK message on an instant messaging program.

I also would like to see more content in MMOs geared specifically toward duo/trio.
Appropriately, I think a good search system should let you advertise how many people you are seeking total. Without a set 'standard' it's not naturally clear whether or not somebody wants to go with more and ensure safety and the completion of the task, or go with less to reap the most benefits and challenge themselves.




Edited, Apr 16th 2010 12:52pm by Zemzelette
#23 Apr 16 2010 at 10:54 AM Rating: Decent
Zemzelette wrote:
I also would like to see more content in MMOs geared specifically toward duo/trio.


I don't disagree with you or others here who would appreciate that kind of setup, but at some point I have to question how much of that should be done on the developer end and how much should be done from the player side of things. One of the issues with FFXI was the way xp scaled. You could form a duo/trio group in FFXI quite easily...it just wasn't worth it in most cases (excluding niche camps and BST parties). Everything outside of the starting areas was tuned to be fought in groups. If things are tuned differently (ie. at level mobs can be killed solo) then each group can take a look at what they have and scale up the challenge on their own by going to higher level areas.
#24 Apr 16 2010 at 11:25 AM Rating: Excellent
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I 100% agree, the numbers of the game need to be tuned with that kind of party size in mind.

Not many MMOs manage to demand enough from the player for them to internalize their motivation, far too much leaning on luck for reasons of padding and faux-complexity means there isn't enough of a direct connection between effort/skill and result. So for the time being, the metrics really do need to go out of their way to encourage people to do things or they simply won't get done.

I'm kind of hoping the trade-off between higher numbers for safety and lower numbers for a greater cut of the reward-pie presents a balanced choice. There needs to be a tangible benefit to low-manning.



Edited, Apr 16th 2010 1:29pm by Zemzelette
#25 Apr 16 2010 at 12:11 PM Rating: Decent
as long as you can do some stuff solo i will be happy. in no way do i want to be able to solo everything but if i dont have a lot of time on my hands, say less than an hour, i want to be able to venture out on my own and be able to accomplish something. some of my best memories from XI were when i was solo / duo / trio. ill never forget my first epic moment of dragoon solo.

i was duoing puks with a fellow drg and we were at it for a while, both around lvl 62-63. eventually a puk linked to the one we had just started fighting. he switched his target to the other one while i remained on the one we were fighting. i managed to finish it off just before the link had killed my duo partner. i engaged the link and eventually my MP had run out, of course sanction refresh decided to wear right before i started to fight this one so i was already at a disadvantage. somewhere in the back of my mind i decided to try something that i had no idea would work, i super jumped, disengaged and switched to my dark staff while i /rested. the puk was beating my wyvern down while i slowly regained some MP. right before the puk killed my wyvern i got back up, switched to my lance, engaged and used call wyvern to bring him back. i managed to finish the puk while my heart was beating faster than it ever should from a videogame.

the point is, you really learn what you are made of when you are either solo, or have less people in your group. you play better because you know you have to, there arent x amount of other players to either pick up the slack or hold your hand. that doesnt mean i dont want to group with other people, i just find solo and low man stuff to be more fun.
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#26 Apr 16 2010 at 2:22 PM Rating: Default
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I have to say first and foremost, that if I wanted to solo constantly. why would I play an MMO?

Now as far as a system to help orginize grouping, my first thought is to have a "looking for group" list you can register on, something anyone can pull up in say, there main menu. Upon regestering that your looking for a group, one could select from tank/melee DD/caster DD/healer/or possibly evem MP regeneration or buffer of sorts, depending on what we find FFXIV has to offer as far as the latter goes. Point is, if you want to add/expand your group, or replace a player who is leaving, you pull up the LFG list and send someone a group invite.

All of that is a very unrefined concept at this point, and if anyone has any suggestions to modify my concept, I will gladly hear them, and I am certainly open to discuss other ideas or better ideas, but this one was what came to mind as I read this thread.
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#27 Apr 16 2010 at 7:36 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only AureliusSir wrote:
CarthRDM wrote:
The One and Only AureliusSir wrote:
The forced grouping that we saw in FFXI will be replaced by a significant amount of solo content and an abundance of content that also benefits from or requires groups. Group onry is a failed MMO concept that only looked good on paper.

I wouldn't say that. Grouping as a best option is obviously the best choice. What made FFXI's method of grouping bad was much like the gil problem: A lack of variety. A specific number of jobs were needed and a specific set-up was needed. This left out jobs in XP parties and especially Endgame. Doesn't help that SE made very large TNLs and not enough EXP/hr to justify non-optimal setups.


Not needed...desired. People largely didn't enjoy the xp grind, which led them to demand optimum everything or they weren't interested in taking part. "Get it over with ASAP or don't do it at all" seemed to be the mantra. And the entertainment to be had in a group was fully negated if you couldn't get a group. It didn't even have to have anything to do with requiring optimum setups...no tank or healer available = no group. Then what? Go farm? No. Hence, group only is a failed concept. It's built around the idea that you're always going to be able to find a group when you want to take part in most of the game's content, which has been proven time and again in one MMO after another is an entirely unreasonable assumption. Even in WoW which has hands down one of the most sophisticated and efficient PvE group forming tools in MMOs today, damage classes can often wait upwards of 20 minutes to be placed in a group. Compared to a 3-4 hour wait as was often the case in FFXI (if you could find a group at all), that's fantastic. When it's 20 minutes out of the hour you had available to play, it's terrible.

Grouping is important to MMOs, but so are abundant solo options.

You said the same thing I said with a larger paragraph. >.>
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#28 Apr 16 2010 at 8:00 PM Rating: Default
coglins wrote:
I have to say first and foremost, that if I wanted to solo constantly. why would I play an MMO?


Again a case where I don't disagree but the tendency is to just say that, try to refine a grouping system that might or might not work better, and ignore a question that's just as important as the one you asked in the segment I quoted above, and that question is:

"If I wanted to sit down for some entertainment and spend anywhere between 20 minutes and several hours twiddling my thumbs waiting for an opportunity to do so, why would I pay someone for that privilege?"

There is nothing...and I mean nothing...that SE can do to create group content that will allow for anyone to get a rapid invite for anything beyond glorified solo content. If you don't need a tank and/or a healer, it means you're either facing swarms of chumpy mobs as the sole feature of the encounter/content, or it's not group content. What that means is your speed of finding a group will be bottlenecked by the supply of tanks and/or healers. People can hypothesize and theorize all day long about what might make the group forming process so efficient that ample solo content becomes a trivial consideration, but at the end of the day if it doesn't address the real issues, it's not more than an idea.
#29 Apr 16 2010 at 8:02 PM Rating: Decent
CarthRDM wrote:
You said the same thing I said with a larger paragraph. >.>


I was trying to delineate the difference between "needed" and "wanted". No xp party in FFXI ever needed a BRD/RDM, but players wanted it so badly in order to cut the downtime between pulls that they began to classify it as a need. Bad enough trying to find a tank/healer for any given group...sucked the high hard one watching the group disband because there was no refresher to be found.
#30 Apr 23 2010 at 6:22 PM Rating: Decent
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RedGalka wrote:
Soloing is nice, but being able to do it in a MMORPG to cap is disgusting >.>


I fail to see how it's all that disgusting. Leveling a class and playing a class at endgame are two entirely different beasts as far as normal performance are concerned. What you may do on a class here doesn't usually translate to what you would do in a raid format.

Frankly, I think you should be more bothered by the fact that you are disgusted by someone else's (i.e. NOT you) enjoyment of a game simply because it deviates from your own.

From what I know that I have read, to all you guys that prefer group formats with friends (like I do) for the nights you just don't want to solo, the game's built this in mind. Grinding or doing guildleves, the difficulty of the mobs changes on whether you are in a group and by how many people are in that group. A solo person may face an EP/DC, with 2 people it would be EM, 3-4 could be T-VT, 5-6 could be VT-IT and beyond would be HNM or Dynamis difficulty. Considering the default group can reach 15, your ability to have fun resides on how you wish to game.

Frankly, it sounds like a nice system.


Edited, Apr 23rd 2010 8:23pm by StrijderVechter
#31 Apr 23 2010 at 6:29 PM Rating: Decent
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coglins wrote:
I have to say first and foremost, that if I wanted to solo constantly. why would I play an MMO?


Just because past companies designed some of the first forays into this genre designed them as such, does not mean that MMOs must be group ONRY. Different strokes for different folks, and some game companies realized that there actually *ARE* people that enjoy playing an online game on their own (their money, their enjoyment) and partake in the social aspects of the MMO in other forms while simultaneously having fun. I personally know that instead of dealing with retards sometimes I need a break here and there for some "alone" time in an MMO.

#32 Apr 23 2010 at 6:54 PM Rating: Decent
StrijderVechter wrote:
coglins wrote:
I have to say first and foremost, that if I wanted to solo constantly. why would I play an MMO?


Just because past companies designed some of the first forays into this genre designed them as such, does not mean that MMOs must be group ONRY. Different strokes for different folks, and some game companies realized that there actually *ARE* people that enjoy playing an online game on their own (their money, their enjoyment) and partake in the social aspects of the MMO in other forms while simultaneously having fun. I personally know that instead of dealing with retards sometimes I need a break here and there for some "alone" time in an MMO.



I agree. Not everyone plays an MMORPG strictly for the MMO component. Some people play largely for the RPG component (with or without the RP). Offline RPGs for console or PC are always extremely limited in comparison to an MMORPG. Grouping in MMOs can often be a great deal of fun. It's fun to be a part of a successful group. It can also be rewarding to be a part of an unsuccessful group that eventually succeeds. But to say that playing an MMORPG should by default indicate or require the desire to spend most if not all of your time in groups is rather silly.
#33 Apr 23 2010 at 7:32 PM Rating: Good
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I agree with your post. There are some things that I think should be done on your own, even in an MMO. I also think that things are more fun with other people. Trying out different spells on mobs, trying different unlikely job combos in FFXI, farming. Things like that.

But you are correct, you shouldn't be required to group. But I feel that it's more fun to do more things in a group setting. If you can get others to willingly do them with you. Cause, C'mon how many times have you been dragged along to help someone's friend get X item for X quest when you really didn't want to? Helping out was something I was normally all for, but then I wondered why I only had 3 75s after playing for 3 years.
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#34 Apr 23 2010 at 9:36 PM Rating: Decent
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I hope the balance between solo/grouping is so much that its seamless and rewarding. Something maybe to consider this time around (which i myself didn't) is to adventure with new people you meet no matter what weapon they use or class they are. just experiment and have fun, a party of 3 might mix better than 5-6 or how much ever pending on weapons or classes involved. Realize its prob a weird way im looking at it, but i figure id throw that idea out there. the greatest part about a new mmorpg is experimentation, that way you won't be the one reading guides/wiki, you'll be posting them =]
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#35 Apr 24 2010 at 6:35 AM Rating: Good
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I, too, am in favor of having the mix of solo and grouping options. Here is the problem, however:
If the game goes in a direction where you can NOT solo through ALL of the levels, then those one or two areas where you can't solo may be a problem for classes that have been deemed undesirable in groups or people who are on time constrictions. They will just hit a wall and not be able to progress at no fault of their own.
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#36 Apr 24 2010 at 9:23 AM Rating: Decent
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If you have to solo to make meaningful progress, I won't be getting the game. If they make soloing too rewarding, most people will solo forcing those of us who want to group to solo also (for the most part).
#37 Apr 24 2010 at 11:00 AM Rating: Default
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xXMalevolenceXx wrote:
If you have to group to make meaningful progress, I won't be getting the game. If they make grouping too rewarding, most people will group forcing those of us who want to solo to group also (for the most part).


Changed all your "solo"s to "group"s and now you're back to playing FFXI.

Edited, Apr 24th 2010 11:00am by jschaub
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#38 Apr 24 2010 at 11:51 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
Changed all your "solo"s to "group"s and now you're back to playing FFXI.


That doesn't make any sense.
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#39 Apr 24 2010 at 12:06 PM Rating: Default
xXMalevolenceXx wrote:
If you have to solo to make meaningful progress, I won't be getting the game. If they make soloing too rewarding, most people will solo forcing those of us who want to group to solo also (for the most part).


From the looks of things, solo will be a whole heck of a lot more practical an option than it was in FFXI, but it's not going to replace grouping as "the thing to do to get the good stuff." You'll have a finite number of guildleves you can do by yourself in a day and if you want to do more, you'll have to group to do it. Monster difficulty flags apparently scale to whether you're in a group or solo (ie. EP, DC, etc.). Guildleves will have selectable difficulty settings. It stands to reason that the higher the difficulty setting, the greater the reward.

After that, it's up to the community.

Edited, Apr 24th 2010 12:49pm by Aurelius
#40 Apr 24 2010 at 5:15 PM Rating: Decent
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I look at is as something to do WHILE looking for said group or guildleve. You can stay solo if that is your kind of kool aid, but I think it is for the people to have something to do other than sitting in town for hours.

Only way my opinion is plausible though is if the LFG version or any kind of trade/LFG channel is handled much better this time around.
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