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Statistical Requirements for EquipmentFollow

#1 Apr 19 2010 at 12:06 AM Rating: Decent
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The fact that I really like Diablo is the statistical requirements for any piece of equipment.

If I remeber correctly, I needed to distribute extra Strength stat point to equip Great Sword.

I like this type of realty in game. Therefore, I was very happy when I first heard about FFXIV

is going to have Durability for the equipment.

I don't say SE should copy Diablo; however, I wish they add this kind of system to FFXIV. Wouldn't

it more fun if this system coordinate with FFXIV physical level system?

Edited, Apr 19th 2010 2:06am by hexid
#2 Apr 19 2010 at 12:22 AM Rating: Good
I'm going to disagree with artificial barriers being a fun aspect, mainly due to the fact that not everyone is going to build their character the same. Single player RPG's it may be fine, however with the amount of flexibility SE has said they want us to have, why pigeonhole us into needing X stat instead of playing around with our stats to see what works best.
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#3 Apr 19 2010 at 6:49 AM Rating: Good
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I would support this, if implemented in a reasonable way. I don't want the game to dictate where I need to place my stat points (kind of defeats the purpose of the system) but at the same time, something like this makes logical sense and can help ensure that players don't go completely off the wall with their player customization. If I want to equip scythes, I think it makes sense that my STR would need to be a bit higher than someone equipping, say, a dagger.

I doubt it is going to happen though. SE seems to be striving to allow players to play/level as they wish, which is also fine by me. After all, if I want to use scythes and I'm not boosting STR, there is probably something wrong with me.
#4 Apr 19 2010 at 9:22 AM Rating: Decent
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flukedrk the Shady wrote:
I'm going to disagree with artificial barriers being a fun aspect, mainly due to the fact that not everyone is going to build their character the same. Single player RPG's it may be fine, however with the amount of flexibility SE has said they want us to have, why pigeonhole us into needing X stat instead of playing around with our stats to see what works best.


That is why SE is allowing us to reallocate points based on the class we choose. The only reason I see this not working is that it excludes certain classes from wearing a potentially good item because it requires too much of a certain stat that does not benefit them.
#5 Apr 19 2010 at 9:35 AM Rating: Good
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My question is, won't our stats increase with level? If so would a high level weapon need really high STR, for example, just to wield it? That's one thing that would bug me if it worked like that. For example, I can understand a dagger requiring a certain skill to wield it, and that skill being limited by someone's level (experience). But it wouldn't make a lot of sense for one dagger to require a strength of 5 and another to require a strength of 55.

I guess it just depends on how much our stats get increased each level, and what they mean in terms of game mechanics.

It does make sense that if someone does not spend a lot of points in STR would have problem wielding a heavy sword. Or someone with low INT would have problems controlling a magic wand. I just prefer skill-based weapon systems more.
#6 Apr 19 2010 at 9:42 AM Rating: Decent
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I like the idea, however based on a skill type world I wanna say something like skill level on weapon be the requirement to equip it. However I can see something like this working for armor like proficiency.
flukedrk wrote:
I'm going to disagree with artificial barriers being a fun aspect, mainly due to the fact that not everyone is going to build their character the same. Single player RPG's it may be fine, however with the amount of flexibility SE has said they want us to have, why pigeonhole us into needing X stat instead of playing around with our stats to see what works best.


And this is why. Being able to further customize our characters growth and setting certain requirements for certain pieces of gear can not only give the player an idea of where to balance stats at, but also adds more to customization (I hate seeing everyone wearing the exact same EG gear).

Also the ability to change armor during battle is unrealistic and would like to see a more real vibe to this. And not being able to change weapons in battle is the opposite since in reality it would be easier to change weapons than body armor, and making both unchangeable during battle makes it this way.

Not saying it would be this way, but stats effecting not only if high enough to equip said armor but type also. And I'd rather see weapon requirements based on skill level over class level, but that wouldn't matter too much. The above system I don't see working saying you lvl one class to cap and get uber weapon for class you never played before. Makes sense to me to get proficient with the weapon type before you can equip one of such great power. Just my thoughts on the matter.
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#7 Apr 19 2010 at 11:37 AM Rating: Default
having a statistical requirement on gear in XIV would be a terrible idea. it means that instead of allocating your stats how you want to each level, you need to allocate them to whatever allows you to wear the next piece of gear. this creates artificial difficulty or challenge while restricting player creativity. this is also already implied in FFXI if you think about it. a lvl 1 drg is clearly less skilled with a polearm then a lvl 75 drg. this is because the 75 drg has higher skill with the weapon, higher str and higher dex, resulting in more damage and accuracy. it will be the same in XIV, a rank 1 lancer will be less skilled with a polearm than that of a rank 10 lancer, naturally the rank 10 lancer will be doing more damage, and doing it with greater accuracy.

also in XI each job has a skill rating with the various weapons they could use. a drg using a dagger would clealy be weaker with it than a thief. since each weapon is basically its own class in XIV this is not the case, when you change weapons you change your class, thus you should automatically have the basic knowhow of how to wield the weapon.

this would also be impractical to put on armor when a level restriction is good enough. as you gain levels your character grows stronger and should naturally be able to use better armor. putting a statistical requirement on it would be silly.
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#8 Apr 19 2010 at 12:12 PM Rating: Good
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At first I did think that SE would be having a system where stats would increase the more you did particular actions (think FF2). And with it you would equip certain armor as your stats reached certain points as a requirement.

Of course that theory went out the window when they announced there are class levels, so I think armor probably goes back to being "must be on this class, at this level minimum to equip".

But at least the way they decided to handle stat allocation will allow for many different unique characters.

In more ways now it would make sense. If stat raising went like how I originally thought, then it would mean everyone could end up with "max stats" at a point and have no variety. And we'd all be super people with no weak spots.
#9 Apr 19 2010 at 1:16 PM Rating: Good
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hexid wrote:
The fact that I really like Diablo is the statistical requirements for any piece of equipment.

If I remeber correctly, I needed to distribute extra Strength stat point to equip Great Sword.

I like this type of realty in game. Therefore, I was very happy when I first heard about FFXIV

is going to have Durability for the equipment.

I don't say SE should copy Diablo; however, I wish they add this kind of system to FFXIV. Wouldn't

it more fun if this system coordinate with FFXIV physical level system?

Edited, Apr 19th 2010 2:06am by hexid


I don't get it...where's the "fun"? This seems like an example of an idea that has a logic behind it, but addresses a need that doesn't exist. What does this do other than limit our options? Why would it be desirable?
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#10 Apr 19 2010 at 1:24 PM Rating: Good
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I don't get how the stat requirement thing could be called fun, imo, it is the complete opposite. In a game like this, where weapons make your class, it is easier to go with the norm. Make it to where you just need to be a certain rank/level/whatever in 'class x' to equip it. It still gets the job done, with the same effects. This idea also restricts how you customize your character, as you are worrying about what stats the next set of equipment will require. Will it require 50 STR while the last piece took only 30? Will it require INT as well? See where I'm getting at?


Overall, i think the norm is the best bet, but that's just my opinion.
#11 Apr 19 2010 at 2:20 PM Rating: Good
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But you can't aplly things like "calls X" requirement, or a must be of "this class" to wear an item. With the information we have on the game at this point, I don't see how that can work. If i am using a Pugilist weapon and put on Pugilist wearable plate armor (just making some random example here, but you get the point), then you whip out your conjurer's weapon, which now makes you a conjurer's class, then the pug, plate armor your wearing would now be unequipable.
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#12 Apr 19 2010 at 3:02 PM Rating: Decent
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coglins wrote:
But you can't aplly things like "calls X" requirement, or a must be of "this class" to wear an item. With the information we have on the game at this point, I don't see how that can work. If i am using a Pugilist weapon and put on Pugilist wearable plate armor (just making some random example here, but you get the point), then you whip out your conjurer's weapon, which now makes you a conjurer's class, then the pug, plate armor your wearing would now be unequipable.


This is what I was trying to say, to me doesn't make sense how you're wearing certain armor and unable to wear it a few seconds later. The best way I can see armor not being required by stats is going off of Physical Level if anything. Otherwise to me doesn't make any sense of even having a Physical Level. If they just wanted certain job can equip X weapon and class specific armor then I would only use Class Ranks instead of co-exist with a Physical Level.
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#13 Apr 19 2010 at 3:22 PM Rating: Good
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Asyrian wrote:
This is what I was trying to say, to me doesn't make sense how you're wearing certain armor and unable to wear it a few seconds later. The best way I can see armor not being required by stats is going off of Physical Level if anything. Otherwise to me doesn't make any sense of even having a Physical Level. If they just wanted certain job can equip X weapon and class specific armor then I would only use Class Ranks instead of co-exist with a Physical Level.


I hope that physical level drops to the equivalent of the class level you are currently on. Imagine wearing an armor for physical level 99 while being class level 1! At the very least they should affect stats accordingly (meaning at lvl 99 it will have +99 to str and lvl 1 would be +1 to str).
#14 Apr 19 2010 at 4:33 PM Rating: Decent
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burtonsnow wrote:
Asyrian wrote:
This is what I was trying to say, to me doesn't make sense how you're wearing certain armor and unable to wear it a few seconds later. The best way I can see armor not being required by stats is going off of Physical Level if anything. Otherwise to me doesn't make any sense of even having a Physical Level. If they just wanted certain job can equip X weapon and class specific armor then I would only use Class Ranks instead of co-exist with a Physical Level.


I hope that physical level drops to the equivalent of the class level you are currently on. Imagine wearing an armor for physical level 99 while being class level 1! At the very least they should affect stats accordingly (meaning at lvl 99 it will have +99 to str and lvl 1 would be +1 to str).


Haha I know what you mean, gotta have some sort of cap in place when changing class I would think? I like the idea of capping stats on gear as well, but I would guess they would do the same thing they did to Level Sync'd gear.

Don't get me wrong I think you should be able to equip a peace of armor that you can normally wear and I think Physical Level is best way to make it possible. However, if changing between heavy DD to a magic caster I'm sure you have seperate gear just for your mage, but having the option should still be there. I kno a bit farfetch'd here but what if your magic caster is built for DD? Yes I kno they not gonna be good as your DD or even a weaker DD, but gear might also be helpful. Or a mage in plate armor?

Sorry for bad examples they kinda made me laugh thinking about them, but isn't it part of this unique system that they want us to customize our characters anyway possible?
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#15 Apr 19 2010 at 5:13 PM Rating: Good
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Asyrian wrote:
[quote=burtonsnow]Yes I kno they not gonna be good as your DD or even a weaker DD, but gear might also be helpful. Or a mage in plate armor?

Sorry for bad examples they kinda made me laugh thinking about them, but isn't it part of this unique system that they want us to customize our characters anyway possible?


Seeing as how in combat positioning is going to be important I wouldn't be all that surprised to see Conjurer wearing a heavier armor. Due to their closer proximity to the actual battle having a mail type armor might be something they are interested in wearing for the added defenses. Its honestly hard to say right now but that sort of open play seems to be what SE wants to allow.
#16 Apr 19 2010 at 7:10 PM Rating: Decent
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The statistical requirements for equipment are a simple OLS regression with your relevant stats as the independent variables and the weapon rating as the dependent variable. I recommend the Stepwise method so that you can determine which specs are statistically insignificant (using a two-tailed test of significance, of course), followed by a hierarchical regression. Before that you should probably do a QQ plot just to make sure that you're not violating an assumption of normalcy (or you could examine the kurtosis and skewedness). Just remember to check the adjusted R squared. If it's above .5 and significant, you can equip your gear!

Assuming there are no collinearity problems, of course.


Edited, Apr 20th 2010 1:18am by Kachi
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#17 Apr 19 2010 at 7:18 PM Rating: Good
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The statistical requirements for equipment are a simple OLS regression with your relevant stats as the independent variables and the weapon rating as the dependent variable. I recommend the Stepwise method so that you can determine which specs are statistically insignificant (using a two-taled test of significance, of course), followed by a hierarchical regression. Before that you should probably do a QQ plot just to make sure that you're not violating an assumption of normalcy (or you could examine the kurtosis and skewedness). Just remember to check the adjusted R squared. If it's above .5 and significant, you can equip your gear!

Assuming there are no collinearity problems, of course.







Thank god someone cleared it all up for us.

Edited, Apr 19th 2010 9:22pm by coglins
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#18 Apr 19 2010 at 7:25 PM Rating: Good
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Well the nice thing about having a sword require 30 strength, and a nice stave requirement 30 int, or 30 mind, or a combination of 20 int and 20 mind is that it gives players a subtle hint on how to spec their characters. If you open up another player's bazaar and you see this weapon and think hey that's a playstyle I'd like to try, it can be used as a good indicator to what is or is not a good stat for that particular class.

I mean I know we are all experts here on the combat mechanics for this as yet unreleased game; but to start off with, a system like this can help direct the masses, whom we will be interacting with as we all explore Eorzea for the first time.
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#19 Apr 20 2010 at 4:24 PM Rating: Decent
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desmar wrote:
Well the nice thing about having a sword require 30 strength, and a nice stave requirement 30 int, or 30 mind, or a combination of 20 int and 20 mind is that it gives players a subtle hint on how to spec their characters. If you open up another player's bazaar and you see this weapon and think hey that's a playstyle I'd like to try, it can be used as a good indicator to what is or is not a good stat for that particular class.

I mean I know we are all experts here on the combat mechanics for this as yet unreleased game; but to start off with, a system like this can help direct the masses, whom we will be interacting with as we all explore Eorzea for the first time.


As long as armors are not the deciding factor in how points are spent i'm ok with that method. What you are suggesting is a method similar to D2, where melee armors required more str, bow armors required more dex, and cloth armors required nothing. I remember multiple times where I was required to increase the STR or DEX of my sorc just so I could wear a certain vital piece of equipment. Once again this doesn't really fit in with the model of complete customization SE is trying to build.
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