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#52 Apr 20 2010 at 11:45 PM Rating: Excellent
akirussan wrote:
Bluefirefly wrote:
None of you have any reason as to why surnames SHOULDN'T be optional.


Consistency.

Oh wait...you wanted a good reason?

Edited, Apr 20th 2010 10:42pm by akirussan



Meh... you know, my in-game name (Osarion. Surprise, surprise) has never had a last name. I've been using it for so long in fact that having a last name would seem kinda weird to me. I, for one, would be perfectly happy being able to keep my mono-moniker. I wouldn't want to have to be forced into picking a last name.
#53 Apr 20 2010 at 11:47 PM Rating: Good
akirussan wrote:
Bluefirefly wrote:
None of you have any reason as to why surnames SHOULDN'T be optional.


Consistency.

Oh wait...you wanted a good reason?


LOTRO offers the option to have a surname or not. The game does not suffer in any way for presenting that option to users. All characters start with one name and upon reaching a certain level they can talk to an NPC and pay a nominal sum for the ability to create a surname. Consistency isn't a good reason to disallow a single name option.
#54 Apr 20 2010 at 11:48 PM Rating: Good
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Much as I value and appreciate the ability for people to choose whatever name they want, I honestly don't mind having name mods who delete/change names that are ill-suited to the world. Joke names and names from completely different fictional worlds and genres irk me. It's not like picking an email or chat user name.
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#55 Apr 21 2010 at 12:52 AM Rating: Good
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You're a @#%^ing idiot. That's a perfectly legitimate reason as to why they should be optional.


Not in a "First+Last = Unique" system, which is what the argument is all about.

Quote:
I already agreed people should be allowed to use surnames, which is why I'm confused as to why that stick is still lodged so far up your ***. It's not doing anyone any harm to let people have one name, without a surname.


Because you haven't even attempted to explain to me or anyone else how to get over any of the potential problems until this post.

Quote:
You your idiotic self even came up with a /tell system that would work perfectly fine with the quotes.


That wasn't me. Give aurormnk the credit he deserves.

Quote:
Delivery system: just enter in the entire person's name. Really not that @#%^ing hard, people.


Sure, I'll deliver something to my friend with the one name. My first attempt fails because, even though first and last names are "optional", the system still requires that I have a space between the first and last name, even though one of them is blank. The second attempt sends fine, but it turns out that my friend (who we'll call "Bob" for the sake of argument) didn't get the mail I sent. This is because I sent it to "Bob ", a complete stranger, when I should have sent it to " Bob", who was my friend. Lesson learned, but did it ******* need to be learned in the first place?

Quote:
You whined about surnames so they gave them to you and now you're going to complain that they're "too much work" to use in a /tell delivery system?


Sending **** to "Bob Smith" is fine; what's at issue here is the above. To me, if you're going to make a field optional, it should be either since both are required to create a unique identifier anyways. That means "Bob " and " Bob" are separate people in the game world, and the only two who get to just be "Bob" with no firsts or lasts to get in the way. After all, that's what you want, right?

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#56 Apr 21 2010 at 4:13 AM Rating: Decent
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I really don't understand the fuss about having a last name. I guess some just don't want to share their name with other people. It's just selfish. There aren't enough decent single names out there for everyone to be happy. The use of first and last names should fix that without having to resort to butchered up / slightly changed / weird character / words smashed together / fugly names.

And I too think you're being a hypocrite, Blue Firefly, for making such a fuss when you've got a name like that.
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#57 Apr 21 2010 at 6:08 AM Rating: Good
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Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Meh... you know, my in-game name (Osarion. Surprise, surprise) has never had a last name. I've been using it for so long in fact that having a last name would seem kinda weird to me. I, for one, would be perfectly happy being able to keep my mono-moniker. I wouldn't want to have to be forced into picking a last name.


I feel the same way. The names that I typically use in MMORPGs never really lend themselves to last names. "Blacktail" is always my first choice, and I've always felt that since it's more of a nickname than a proper name, that it sounds best without a last name tacked on. Or another name that I go with sometimes: "Armadillo". Boy, that one could sound weird with a last name...like say, Armadillo Ferguson :P

It's not too big of a deal though. I'm sure I can figure out something that works even if they don't make surnames optional.

Edited, Apr 21st 2010 8:09am by Eske
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#58 Apr 21 2010 at 6:36 AM Rating: Good
How did a silly name thread turn into a flame war?

I might try my name: Josh/Joshua Smith

Also on the table are Paul Hargus an Ted Sheckler.
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#59 Apr 21 2010 at 8:19 AM Rating: Decent
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I dunno but they got angry over something pretty small really quickly. It's fine for you to be angry that they aren't allowing solo names BF but to be so out of control that your calling ppl names and cursing is making you look like a tard.

Another question, which is more annoying?
xxCloudstrifexx, xCloudstrifex, cloudstrife or
Cloud Strife, Cloud Stryfe, Clouud Strife

Edited, Apr 21st 2010 10:29am by aurormnk
#60 Apr 21 2010 at 8:35 AM Rating: Good
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I'm firmly in the "it should be optional" camp on this matter.

I don't always go by my full name in real life, so why should I have to in a game life? Simple enough question, and not without precident; When I'm in a RL social environment such as a party, drinks out, or whatever, I never introduce myself by using my full name. And often I don't even use my first name. I'll use my nickname.

You don't have to be Batman to make use of an alias. Many of my friends have nicknames. I have a nickname. When I'm hanging out with friends we use our nicknames. There are, right now, people who only know me by my nickname.

It's a perfectly reasonable argument, and quite why it's offended so many people is beyond me. Choice and variety are always better than constraint, particuarly when there is no good reason for that constraint.

I love the idea of surnames in games. If I were re-creating my main FFXI character on XIV I would absolutely be using one. But I'm not doing that. I'm taken with the idea of re-creating my 2nd FFXI character, as I've hardly used that one on XI. That character goes only by their nickname, and there is no sensible surname that I can bolt on the end that will look right to me. And as I'll be looking at that name all the time, it is something that I'm allowed to be bothered about, and want to discus without getting flamed.

Some of my friends and I have always tried to add a little light-hearted roleplay to our FF experience, and our character names are a part of that. Being forced down a path that interferes with that is irritating and off-putting, just as it would be in real life if I always had to use my full name in every social encounter I have.

This is just one of a plethora of perfectly reasonable reasons why surnames being optional is a good thing. And there is certainly no reason why their being optional is a bad thing, for one very good reason:

Optional surnames do not constrain anyone, required surnames do.

That's the kind of argument that decides the matter for me. Even if I didn't care one way or the other, nothing anyone could say would alter the truth of the statement. If you're getting angry at the idea of surnames being optional, then I seriously suggest you take a few minutes to calm down and ask yourself "how would optional surnames actually affect me? Really?".

As for the technical implications, there is nothing that can not be overcome. There is absolutely no difficulty on the database end of surnames being optional. None, zip, zero.

There is a complication on the querying process, which is something slightly different. But nothing that can not be overcome by appropriate coding and/or interface design.

The system used by XI would not be able to cope with it, but we're talking about XIV, not XI. The dev team have free reign to change the interface to accomodate anything they want. The simplest solution would be to add a seperator such as a colon or chevron in the /tell statment after the name, but that is far from the only solution. A more elegant solution is to popup an auto-complete list once you start typing a name in. This would make selecting names so much easier than it is on XI, and easily allow the handling of both single and dual component names. As names would be pattern-matched at entry, the front end will know precisely what the selected name is actually comprised of.

I've worked with contextual interfaces linked to databases. Neither of the above solutions are difficult to implelent. It's simply a matter of collecting and passing the tell message to the server in a componentised form rather than as a single string, like XI probably does.
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#61 Apr 21 2010 at 9:11 AM Rating: Default
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Gii wrote:
response


Very well put!
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#62 Apr 21 2010 at 9:16 AM Rating: Good
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I'm also going to say they should be optional. I, for one, am going to have a hard time picking a last name if it's required. I have a few ideas, but nothing solid. After all, Wookiees don't have last names.
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#63 Apr 21 2010 at 10:25 AM Rating: Default
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I didn't get "so out of control angry" over the name issue. I simply let the stupidity of a group of people on this board annoy me to the point where I felt compelled to let them know that they are indeed idiots. Not to mention I really don't care if people here think I look like a "tard" for telling other tards they are tards. If anything it is with the sincere hope that they realize how stupid what they are saying truly is and attempt to better themselves so that their arguments might even be coherent. I guess that really is asking too much from a lot of people here, though. Sorry, guys. I really don't understand how someone thinks an argument saying surnames should be required is valid. If anything, those are the people who are completely uncreative and boring because they can't come up with a good name unless they get to distinguish it with a surname. If anything they are the hypocrites because they want to be the same as other people thanks to their lack of creativity.

It's not selfish at all to not want to see other people with a name you claimed first. Tons of people are probably going to want to be "Harry Potter" and will be all sad and cry when they can't so then they'll ask for a middle name so they can run around being Harry Awesome Potter and all the other deviations that come with it. And that's fine with me, it really is. But I do NOT want my name to be "Blue Firefly." Just because a few simpletons point out the obvious (that I can put a space in between two words, good job, guys) doesn't make it an appealing option to me. I'm sure if numbers were required in our names people would be flipping out. If they were optional, it wouldn't be as big of a deal because at least it doesn't have to affect YOUR name. If you want a surname, I'm happy for you, really I am. But why are you trying to make it so everyone who doesn't want one has to use one? It's not going to affect your ability to copy the name because of your uncreative minds. Or is it really because you don't want everyone to know who the original is? Or maybe, as I suggested to Quanta, you just have nothing better to do than counter arguments with stupidity to get your post count up and just make sure everyone knows your stance on an issue that you claim is stupid at the beginning of your post and then post on anyway. Because that makes so much sense.
#64 Apr 21 2010 at 10:30 AM Rating: Decent
aurormnk wrote:
Another question, which is more annoying?
xxCloudstrifexx, xCloudstrifex, cloudstrife or
Cloud Strife, Cloud Stryfe, Clouud Strife


All of the above? Unoriginal is unoriginal no matter what formatting spin you put on it.
#65 Apr 21 2010 at 10:57 AM Rating: Default
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The is the only forum that I've seen that is still ******** about having to use surnames.


Edited, Apr 21st 2010 12:58pm by BluefirefIy
#66 Apr 21 2010 at 11:01 AM Rating: Decent
BluefirefIy wrote:
The is the only forum that I've seen that is still ******** about having to use surnames.


Sockpuppets are stupid. Nothing screams, "I have no testicular fortitude" like a sockpuppet used to avoid karma thumpings on a main user account.

But you know what's worse than a sockpuppet? An imp account. You enjoy that ban now, ya hear?
#67 Apr 21 2010 at 11:18 AM Rating: Good
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For people who argue that their character go by their nickname, while I agree that they're fine and dandy, and don't usually have a surname attached to them, what I disagree on is the idea of naming your character after his/her nickname.

I believe a nickname is "earned" as the people around you start using it over your given name. My real life nickname has nothing to do with my real name.

Don't people think it's better to earn the nickname and reputation of "Soloist" due to the fact you have soloed every NM, quest, mission and monster in the game, rather than simply creating a level 1 character named "Soloist"?

There's no limit to own many people can get the nickname "Doc" in a guild. Some perhaps because they always play a healer role. Some others because they named their character "Doctor something or somesuch" and just get it shortened to "Doc".

You can have an infinite amount of players with the same cool nickname, because the game doesn't control nicknames; players do as nicknames are usually only understood by the people around you. Is it really that hard to give your character a "real name", and then ask people to call you "Deathblade" or whatever instead?
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#68 Apr 21 2010 at 11:32 AM Rating: Decent
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BluefirefIy wrote:
The is the only forum that I've seen that is still ******** about having to use surnames.


Edited, Apr 21st 2010 12:58pm by BluefirefIy


Let's take this back to that message thread, shall we? I'd really enjoy proving you guys to be idiots again. But, unlike you guys, I won't let petty **** like this consume my life. :)
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#69 Apr 21 2010 at 11:39 AM Rating: Good
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Lianda wrote:
For people who argue that their character go by their nickname, while I agree that they're fine and dandy, and don't usually have a surname attached to them, what I disagree on is the idea of naming your character after his/her nickname.

I believe a nickname is "earned" as the people around you start using it over your given name. My real life nickname has nothing to do with my real name.

Don't people think it's better to earn the nickname and reputation of "Soloist" due to the fact you have soloed every NM, quest, mission and monster in the game, rather than simply creating a level 1 character named "Soloist"?

There's no limit to own many people can get the nickname "Doc" in a guild. Some perhaps because they always play a healer role. Some others because they named their character "Doctor something or somesuch" and just get it shortened to "Doc".

You can have an infinite amount of players with the same cool nickname, because the game doesn't control nicknames; players do as nicknames are usually only understood by the people around you. Is it really that hard to give your character a "real name", and then ask people to call you "Deathblade" or whatever instead?


I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that having the ability to simply name your character "Deathblade" is simpler, foolproof, and more direct. Why make this more difficult than it need be? And why the masochistic desire to have to "earn" the name that you just want to go by in the game?

I'll add to this that my character usually has a "nickname for his nickname" so-to-speak. I usually go by "Blacktail", which everyone eventually shortens to "BT", which I like. By your suggestion, something like this is made all the more difficult:

"My name is John Smith, but I'd like you to call me Blacktail, which I'd then like you to abbreviate to BT"

Something like that is a bit clunky, and potentially confusing, as well. The easiest way to make everyone happy is just to make surnames optional. Let SE do whatever coding gymnastics are necessary to make it work.

Edited, Apr 21st 2010 1:40pm by Eske

Edited, Apr 21st 2010 1:47pm by Eske
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#70 Apr 21 2010 at 11:54 AM Rating: Excellent
The point isn't that it's impossible for SE to do it another way (it's obviously not, even though it would require additional coding/error checking), or that it's required to make the game functional; It's that it's an incredibly minor annoyance for Blue to go frothing at the mouth over. People are likely only going to refer to you by your first name, so keep your FFXI name for that and 99% of the time life won't be any different (people only refer to me by the first 4 letters of my 13 letter FFXI name, it's not a big deal). If you have a nickname, people can call you it regardless of whether it's your only name or your first/last name or if it's not even in your actual FFXIV name. If you want "reasons" for the convention: 1) the two name convention is like requiring X number of letters in a name, it decreases chances of duplicates 2) it fits with the visual aesthetics of the rest of the game 3) it opens up new dialogue options with regards to formality (which is not just a .jp concept, Blue you bigot) 4) it makes joke/statement/object names more awkward encouraging people to choose names that are more immersive 5) because SE feels like it.

tl;dr- QQ MOAR
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Eske wrote:
I'll add to this that my character usually has a "nickname for his nickname" so-to-speak. I usually go by "Blacktail", which everyone eventually shortens to "BT", which I like. By your suggestion, something like this is made all the more difficult:

"My name is John Smith, but I'd like you to call me Blacktail, which I'd then like you to abbreviate to BT"

Something like that is a bit clunky, and potentially confusing, as well.
Name yourself "blacktail <something>", people who just meet you will refer to you as "blacktail", you tell them "BT is fine". There isn't anything magical or clunky about this, it works just like it would normally (in FFXI or IRL), you're making a huge deal over what amounts to nothing.

Edited, Apr 21st 2010 2:20pm by shintasama
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#71 Apr 21 2010 at 12:06 PM Rating: Good
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Eske wrote:
"My name is John Smith, but I'd like you to call me Blacktail, which I'd then like you to abbreviate to BT"

How about this:

*Newbie player joins the party*
(Newbie player) Hi!
(Party Leader) Heya Newbie! Me and BT are at the camp already, come meet us!
(Newbie player) BT?
(John Smith) That's me.

or

*John Smith joins the party*
(John Smith) {Hello!} Call me BT.
(Random DamageDealer) BT?
(John Smith) Yes.

There's really no need for anyone you don't "know" to explain BT comes from Bluetail, and your character wasn't called "Bluetail" by his parents when he was born (at least, I don't hope so). All your friends will know, because I suppose you'll use more than monosyllabic sentences when you talk with them, but it's okay to be short and to the point with strangers. Just no need to go around and explain your life story?

Of course, the NPCs in the world will all refer to you as John Smith.. Like in real life, the governement, police officers and such don't call me by my nickname. Real name for official purposes.

At the very least, it makes sense to me, and I don't object at all the forced surname idea.
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#72 Apr 21 2010 at 12:08 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm probably going to with the name "Felix Locke", after one of the X360 RPG characters I'm creating. I always liked the name Felix, and the surname is being lifted from the philosophical thinker John Locke (influenced by his thoughts on personal identity). Plus once our game is released, I'll already have claim to the character's name.
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#73 Apr 21 2010 at 12:32 PM Rating: Good
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you better believe I'll be keeping the same name.

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#74 Apr 21 2010 at 12:36 PM Rating: Good
PLDXavier wrote:
I'm probably going to with the name "Felix Locke", after one of the X360 RPG characters I'm creating. I always liked the name Felix, and the surname is being lifted from the philosophical thinker John Locke (influenced by his thoughts on personal identity). Plus once our game is released, I'll already have claim to the character's name.


Nooooo!! John Locke was a bald guy on Lost! Pfft...philosophers...everyone knows they aren't real Smiley: motz
#75 Apr 21 2010 at 12:45 PM Rating: Decent
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I've decided this is going to be a Final Fantasy where I want to control a Woman instead of a guy. I will also name her Jill Stuart.
#76 Apr 21 2010 at 12:52 PM Rating: Good
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Professor shintasama wrote:
Eske wrote:
I'll add to this that my character usually has a "nickname for his nickname" so-to-speak. I usually go by "Blacktail", which everyone eventually shortens to "BT", which I like. By your suggestion, something like this is made all the more difficult:

"My name is John Smith, but I'd like you to call me Blacktail, which I'd then like you to abbreviate to BT"

Something like that is a bit clunky, and potentially confusing, as well.


Name yourself "blacktail <something>", people who just meet you will refer to you as "blacktail", you tell them "BT is fine". There isn't anything magical or clunky about this, it works just like it would normally (in FFXI or IRL),

Edited, Apr 21st 2010 2:20pm by shintasama


On this point I'll refer back to my original post in this thread:

I wrote:
The names that I typically use in MMORPGs never really lend themselves to last names. "Blacktail" is always my first choice, and I've always felt that since it's more of a nickname than a proper name, that it sounds best without a last name tacked on. Or another name that I go with sometimes: "Armadillo". Boy, that one could sound weird with a last name...like say, Armadillo Ferguson :P


Professor shintasama wrote:
you're making a huge deal over what amounts to nothing.


I you think must be conflating me with Bluefirefly, because I'm definitely not making a "huge deal" about anything here. Check it out:

I also wrote:
It's not too big of a deal though. I'm sure I can figure out something that works even if they don't make surnames optional.


See?

Lianda wrote:
How about this:

*Newbie player joins the party*
(Newbie player) Hi!
(Party Leader) Heya Newbie! Me and BT are at the camp already, come meet us!
(Newbie player) BT?
(John Smith) That's me.

or

*John Smith joins the party*
(John Smith) {Hello!} Call me BT.
(Random DamageDealer) BT?
(John Smith) Yes.

There's really no need for anyone you don't "know" to explain BT comes from Bluetail, and your character wasn't called "Bluetail" by his parents when he was born (at least, I don't hope so). All your friends will know, because I suppose you'll use more than monosyllabic sentences when you talk with them, but it's okay to be short and to the point with strangers. Just no need to go around and explain your life story?

Of course, the NPCs in the world will all refer to you as John Smith.. Like in real life, the governement, police officers and such don't call me by my nickname. Real name for official purposes.

At the very least, it makes sense to me, and I don't object at all the forced surname idea.


My point isn't that it's exorbitantly difficult to do any of those options, though. I'm just suggesting that it's easier to just make surnames optional. Why should I even have to have those conversations that you wrote out? What benefit am I getting in return that overrules my desire to play with the name that I want, spelled the way that I want it?

To the rest of what you wrote, I think there's an improperly assumed amount of RP'ing that goes into your argument. For example you wrote:
Quote:
your character wasn't called "Bluetail" [sic] by his parents when he was born


Why does this even enter into the discussion? What if my character was orphaned at birth? What if he was raised by wolves? What if (and this is the case) I simply don't care about that? I'm not RP'ing, so why should I be arbitrarily bound by an RP'ing argument?

I'm not hearing a good reason for why surnames shouldn't be optional, here. Yes, I can and will adapt if I'm not given the option...it's not hard at all. But it's marginally less difficult for us players if SE just does the extra coding/interfacing to make it optional, and it allows me to use the name I want, the way I want it. So shouldn't that make everyone happy?




Edited, Apr 21st 2010 2:56pm by Eske
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#77 Apr 21 2010 at 12:58 PM Rating: Good
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UncleRuckusForLife wrote:
In before taru lookalike named Hit girl.

Edited, Apr 20th 2010 5:37pm by UncleRuckusForLife


Sorry OT: Kudos and a green arrow to you for the Kick-*** reference (the movie is incredible). ('-')b

Edit: I can type *** instead of a$$

Edited, Apr 21st 2010 12:35pm by AngusX
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#78 Apr 21 2010 at 1:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Eske wrote:
I'm not hearing a good reason for why surnames shouldn't be optional, here.


I'm going to try to ask this in as non-confrontational a manner as I can: Has anyone confirmed yet that entering an empty string as their surname doesn't work? I haven't read much of any of the details about naming in XIV, but I'm curious if anyone's tried to opt out of a last name by leaving the last name field blank or by using " " as their surname. If I were still playing Astyanax, I wouldn't care if the game said "Astyanax␠␠␠uses Dark Harvest". That would just be crappy UI work on S-E's part, not my fault.

Edited, Apr 21st 2010 3:06pm by PLDXavier
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#79 Apr 21 2010 at 1:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Ok, this is the last time I'm posting in this thread because it has been officially overrun with stupidity. I'm not frothing at the mouth by any means. At this point I don't even care anymore. What irked me wasn't the idea of required surnames, although I am obviously against them, it was the army of buffoons that raided the thread trying to argue against them being optional with completely crap arguments that annoyed me. If you guys consider what I did flipping out, then maybe you're smoking a little too much pot, brahs.
#80 Apr 21 2010 at 1:44 PM Rating: Good
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I will most likely stick with one of my names from an earlier MMO or a variation of one of the names. The Ghidora part I use is from my favorite Godzilla movie monster and the Hazero part is a play on my RL last name.

I usually keep my MMO names somewhat related. I always think it's pretty cool when someone in one game asks me if I'm the same "insert name variation" from a different MMO. I've run into friends from other games that way, and had a good laugh about it.

I kinda wish this thread didn't get off track, I was really interested in knowing what some folks were going to name their characters. I like the stories behind people's in game names.
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#81 Apr 21 2010 at 3:05 PM Rating: Good
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KingGhidora wrote:
I kinda wish this thread didn't get off track, I was really interested in knowing what some folks were going to name their characters. I like the stories behind people's in game names.


I'm happy to get back on topic for a bit while I wait to see if anyone replies to my previous message, so sure:

Eske was my old FFXI name. I had wanted "Edge", but it was already taken, unsurprisingly. I wanted something similar, and something simple and short. I read that "Eske" was Norse for "Spear of the Gods", which sounded pretty cool (I've always liked the spear as a weapon, personally).

In EVE, I went with Blacktail. Some people might recognize it as the name one of the better pistols in Resident Evil 4. I liked the gun, but the name in particular struck me as sounding cool, even out of context. It kind of reminds me of the naming style in Brian Jacques' old Redwall series of books, which I read as a kid. The evil characters in those stories always had names that sounded like that.

In my brief stint in Vanguard, I named my character Armadillo. Chose it 'cause I like the animal, and it seemed appropriate for my character (who was a tank). The word armadillo roughly translates to "little armored one". I always liked how that sounds.

I'll probably be going with one of the latter two in FFXIV. Not quite sure which yet.
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#82 Apr 21 2010 at 5:16 PM Rating: Good
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I don't know what name I'll use yet, mostly because of the whole surname dilemma. I really do hope they make surnames optional, they add a whole lot of extra options to name choosing if you use it, but if they force surnames on you, wouldn't it feel as limiting as only being able to have one name? I mean, it's either "why can't I have a space in my name!" or "why do I have to have a space in my name!", so having the option for either way should make everyone happy!

City of Heroes had optional spaces (as many as you like, I think, up to the character limit), and I never saw anyone complaining. If City of Heroes can do it, I wouldn't expect Square Enix to have any trouble. It's just up to whether they want to allow it or not.
#83 Apr 21 2010 at 5:41 PM Rating: Good
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Eske wrote:
I'm just suggesting that it's easier to just make surnames optional. Why should I even have to have those conversations that you wrote out?

I agree with you, it's easier to just call your character BT or Bluetail and there would be no need for any explanation. Then again, it's a social game, having to talk with people shouldn't really be considered a bad thing.

My point, however, is that there are two main flavours of MMORPG out there. There are those who try to make big massively multiplayer games, such as World of Warcraft, and there those who try to create worlds, in which characters live. I simply call the first one "games" and the others "virtual worlds", it's just the name I give them. Eve, for instance, is considered by most designers a virtual world.

Most virtual worlds try to mimic some aspects of real life and some of the laws that govern us. When you chose to develop a game like that, some decisions you make are annoying on purpose, and help make the world more believable; people can relate to real-life. Most people hate the idea of the long airship rides or terribly long boat rides in FFXI, and it's not a technical issue that is preventing Square from making them faster; they are slow on purpose. I just add the "forced surname" to the list of annoying things that were decided by some committee to actually help the world feel real.

It's pretty close to role-playing, but when you sign up to a MMO, and create a character in a world, whether you want to act in character or not, you basically have just added a character in a "living" world, and you now exist in everybody's vision of that world. Apparently, Square-enyx seem to believe asking people to have a surname is going to help that world, and it did annoy me that most NPCs had one, including my fellow, and not myself.

Meh, at the end of the day, I understand clearly your point, I even have a hard time figuring what I'll pick for mine. I guess the added bonus of being easily able to make two character siblings (same family name) or married couples is interesting, and you could also simply use the same family name to make each of your character easy to distinguish on the LS list, so I really don't see anything bad about it, except the whole "what will I pick, damnit?" part.

I can see also why they wouldn't allow players to go without a surname, just because if you allow it for one player, a lot of players may want not to take one, either, and then you end up like XI, where nobody has one (for convenience, shorter names, etc.) Forcing them seems to me like the best way to make the majority of the players pick one. It's a small hurdle to step over, but once you'll be in the game, just how much are you going to care about it, anyway?

As for the on-topic part, I still haven't decided. I'll probably recreate Lianda, perhaps simply as "Lia". Don't know the last name I'll give her, and it depends on Miqo'te naming conventions. Most likely something short like mithras use "Lia Kethil" or something like that. I'll also recreate my hume Docent, and probably his sister (who used to be his fellow in XI) Jesimae with the same surname for both, which is not decided yet. I might create a few others or not, depending on how useful multiple characters is (muling, multiple jobs without having to respec, which I hate, etc.)

I might also go for a completely new character, in which case I have no clue of the name/surname yet, until I see the look in the character creator and get inspired for a name.
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#84 Apr 21 2010 at 6:29 PM Rating: Good
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I'm a bit concerned about this.

Since I was about 11 years old I've had a nickname that I've used throughout my life.

That was 25 years ago. So I'm quite attached to it.

In every game I've played and signing up to stuff like Playstation Network I've used the same name as it is quite original. And I used it throughout my FFXI days for over 3 years.

OK, so you can see by my name on here it's Scotchio.

So, in FFXIV if have to choose a double-barrelled name, I really do not what to use?

I have been thinking it over for a while and can't think of what to use.

I don't want to be Scot Chio. That sounds like an Italian guy called Scot. Of which I'm neither.

I've thought about names like Mr Scotchio, Sir Scotchio, Lord Scotchio. But I'd prefer to be just Scotchio.

I hope single names are an option.

Edit:

As our Square Enix ID's will be used to access the game. Maybe our SE log in name can be used a our character name. In that case my name will be ok. Maybe, hopefully.


Edited, Apr 21st 2010 8:35pm by scotchio

Edited, Apr 21st 2010 8:36pm by scotchio
#85 Apr 21 2010 at 10:31 PM Rating: Good
Sky is falling

Eske wrote:
another name that I go with sometimes: "Armadillo". Boy, that one could sound weird with a last name...like say, Armadillo Ferguson
I think it only sounds weird because you picked a surname that doesn't fit (and possibly because you're just used to it not being there).
"Armadillo Halfshell" for example, would be an awesome name IMO :3
Eske wrote:
I'm definitely not making a "huge deal" about anything here.
Nitpicking, but claiming to "not care" then going on about how it's so "clunky", "confusing", and "weird" (particularly when it's actually negligibly different in practice) is pretty contradictory.
Quote:
I agree with you, it's easier to just call your character BT or Bluetail and there would be no need for any explanation.
I'm still failing to see the need for any additional explaination provided he makes his first name Bluetail. People are too lazy to type more than the first 4 letters of my name in FFXI, they certainly aren't going to refer to everyone by first+last name in the player interactions of FFXIV. Even watching NDA SECRET this is how it's been working out.
Quote:
I've thought about names like Mr Scotchio, Sir Scotchio, Lord Scotchio. But I'd prefer to be just Scotchio.
"Butter Scotchio" :3

of course most people would probably just refer to you as "butter" then, hmmm (whats it supposed to refer to?)
KG wrote:
I kinda wish this thread didn't get off track, I was really interested in knowing what some folks were going to name their characters. I like the stories behind people's in game names.
Sorry, don't want vengeful demons to get it XD

If people want more help coming up with appropriate new surnames I'll gladly help though!
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#86 Apr 21 2010 at 10:57 PM Rating: Excellent
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Shin wrote:
I'm still failing to see the need for any additional explanation provided he makes his first name Bluetail

(See what I did up there?)
In that specific case, he could always call himself "Blue Tail", in which case some players might call him "Blue" or "B.T." without any need for communication.

You can't really split every name so easily, though... "Lian Da"? "Doc Ent"? "Jesi Mae" "Arma Dillo" "xXDestiny AngelXx".. Some of them work, I guess...
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#87 Apr 21 2010 at 11:21 PM Rating: Excellent
Lianda wrote:
Shin wrote:
I'm still failing to see the need for any additional explanation provided he makes his first name Bluetail

(See what I did up there?)
In that specific case, he could always call himself "Blue Tail", in which case some players might call him "Blue" or "B.T." without any need for communication.

You can't really split every name so easily, though... "Lian Da"? "Doc Ent"? "Jesi Mae" "Arma Dillo" "xXDestiny AngelXx".. Some of them work, I guess...
You can always make your current name the first name and then add something else though. You must have missed the point of the rest of my post(s).

People only seem to refer to the first name out of laziness/natural speech. Using the full name every time is like calling someone by their full name IRL every time or never using pronouns: people could, but they don't. In the end there isn't any real difference in day to day player interactions, but it does open up interesting new avenues for NPC-player interactions or possibly player "families".
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#88 Apr 22 2010 at 1:05 AM Rating: Excellent
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scotchio wrote:
I've thought about names like Mr Scotchio, Sir Scotchio, Lord Scotchio. But I'd prefer to be just Scotchio.


"Just Scotchio" it is.
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#89 Apr 22 2010 at 3:18 AM Rating: Good
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Professor shintasama wrote:
Sky is falling

Eske wrote:
another name that I go with sometimes: "Armadillo". Boy, that one could sound weird with a last name...like say, Armadillo Ferguson
I think it only sounds weird because you picked a surname that doesn't fit (and possibly because you're just used to it not being there).
"Armadillo Halfshell" for example, would be an awesome name IMO :3


Personally, no, I'm not a fan. I like the name my way. This is a subjective feeling, so it's not really up for suggestions. I'll ask again: what's the good reason for not letting me just have the name I want? Do you agree with Lianda's feeling? (Which I'll address in a second)

Professor shintasama wrote:
Eske wrote:
I'm definitely not making a "huge deal" about anything here.
Nitpicking, but claiming to "not care" then going on about how it's so "clunky", "confusing", and "weird" (particularly when it's actually negligibly different in practice) is pretty contradictory.


See, now I am starting to get annoyed. Not at the debate, but at your obnoxiousness. Posting a picture that says the sky is falling is a gross exagerration, and seeks to trivialize the points that I'm trying to make here.

Note that I never said that I do "not care", as you so deliberately misquoted me. So there's really nothing contradictory about it. I said it's no big deal, but obviously that doesn't preclude me from discussing the issues (however minor they MAY be) and sharing a dissenting point of view. We can't have a rational debate on the topic until you stop going all ad hominem.

professor shintasama wrote:
Quote:
I agree with you, it's easier to just call your character BT or Bluetail and there would be no need for any explanation.
I'm still failing to see the need for any additional explaination provided he makes his first name Bluetail. People are too lazy to type more than the first 4 letters of my name in FFXI, they certainly aren't going to refer to everyone by first+last name in the player interactions of FFXIV. Even watching NDA SECRET this is how it's been working out.
Quote:
I've thought about names like Mr Scotchio, Sir Scotchio, Lord Scotchio. But I'd prefer to be just Scotchio.
"Butter Scotchio" :3

of course most people would probably just refer to you as "butter" then, hmmm (whats it supposed to refer to?)


So far your contribution has been pointing out other ways of making our names using a surname. But I'm not disputing that such things are possible. Obviously, these represent compromises (for what in return?) that are less desirable than just having the name the way we want it. So that's kind of a moot point, isn't it?

Lianda wrote:
retort


I understand your sentiment. Obviously we all undertake some degree of roleplaying when we subscribe to the fantasy setting of an mmorpg, and choose a name. But the problem is that forcing players to use a first and last name does not correlate with creating "realistic" fantasy names.

Having to use a surname isn't going to stop players from being named "xxxsephiroth xxxcloud" or "awesome dude" or "beefcake manarms" or "diahrrea mcfartypants" etc. etc. And I don't suspect that any amount of policing will stop that (SE isn't going to cracking the whip very hard on name appropriateness, I can assure you that.

So why not just make it optional, then?

Edited, Apr 22nd 2010 5:20am by Eske
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#90 Apr 22 2010 at 4:26 AM Rating: Decent
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But what are you going to do when your names are already taken by someone else and you don't want a different server because al your friends are here?
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#91 Apr 22 2010 at 7:06 AM Rating: Good
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Eske wrote:
I don't suspect that any amount of policing will stop that (SE isn't going to cracking the whip very hard on name appropriateness, I can assure you that.

So why not just make it optional, then?

Right, you are totally right, people will still call their characters "Thieving Miqote" "McStabby Smartypants" if they want to, and those names will keep on "ruining" the experience for those who care, and get a lol out of those who find it funny (I usually laugh at the 2nd, and /facepalm at those who include their jobs in their name. Always 'funny' to see Mithraninja being a summoner...).

The only reason I can see why they would enforce first and last names is if they made a system in the game where NPCs can refer to you by either of them. For example, an officer might call you Mr. <surname> in a quest, or Knight <surname> and such, while friendlier NPCs could refer to you as <firstname> only.

For example, in FFXI, most of the fellowship quests, your NPC is refered to as their full name, but when you are out in the field, only their first name appear; this is something I have always appreciated.

Of course, a bit of programming could "fix" that by using Mr. <onlyname> instead of Mr. <surname>, but then you need to add exception cases when the character decided to formally address you as <firstname> <surname>... You wouldn't want them to use "Ah yes, it's Bluetail Bluetail the adventurer!" (i.e. a simple search-and-replace operation). See, you could say "whenever you use <firstname> <surname>, then replace it by <onlyname>!", and then I'd say "what about if the npc says something like 'Oh, it's that adventurer... what was her name again? <surname>? Ah yes! <firstname>!'"

Not saying it's impossible to fix, but it's a combination of laziness + amount of manhours to test all cases (you need a tester to play every cutscene with a character with a simple name, and replay them again with a firsname + surname and see if there are any issues, essentially doubling the workload of testers). Actually, it's probably a simple case of Return on Investment; asking the player to pick a surname (not optional) makes all these potential bugs go away and is WAY less costly for square-enyx than bulletproofing the entire game to make sure both cases are supported. Working in the game industry for a few years does open your eyes to the reasons why decisions are made in such or such way, and most often, the bottom line is Cost vs Return on Investment.

TLDR: something along the lines of "estimated amount of bugs to fix" vs "estimated amount of players lost due to strict naming conventions"...
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#92 Apr 22 2010 at 7:15 AM Rating: Good
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Eske wrote:

Boy, that one could sound weird with a last name...like say, Armadillo Ferguson :P

Am I the only one that likes the name "Armadillo Ferguson"?

On the other hand, I can see where the frustration is coming from if it comes down to not having a choice. If I were dead set on being Astyanax again, I would probably have to scrounge for a new last name and probably never be happy with it.

And just to return to the OP's thread:
Felix Locke (for reasons specified in a post above)
Inspector Javert (an old XI name)
Inspector Gadget (what people called that old XI name ^.^)
Xavier Conrad
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#93 Apr 22 2010 at 7:53 AM Rating: Good
On a side note, my EQ2 name was Lubriderm Handlotion. Someone reported it, and a GM told me I had to change my name because Sony can't implicitly endourse products via character names.
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#94 Apr 22 2010 at 9:54 AM Rating: Good
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Lianda wrote:
TLDR: something along the lines of "estimated amount of bugs to fix" vs "estimated amount of players lost due to strict naming conventions"...


(I did read your whole post, I'm just quoting the TLDR part to cut down on text.)

Well now we're not talking about whether or not it should be in the game, we're talking hypotheticals about why it isn't yet. I guess you agree that all other things aside, it'd be of most benefit for surnames to be optional?

I'm more inclined to believe that the forced surname situation from the alpha is the result of an oversight (or simply because it's hyper-early in the development process and they haven't addressed it yet), rather than a deliberate choice.

As far as the coding required: people in this thread have listed a few games that already have the situation that I'm asking for, so obviously it's not impossible to code. And I'm no expert, but the issues that you listed don't seem very difficult at all. Off the top of my head, a conditional statement or two related to, say, whether or not a "space" is found in the character name would resolve that issue entirely. And if issues arise during regular testing, they're very easy to identify and fix.

The idea that SE is weighing the necessity of including the option vs. losing players seems a bit far fetched to me...like I said before, this is an issue that's been solved before. And I don't suspect that this is something that would make somebody not play the game if it wasn't optional. At any rate, it's their prerogative to include features that the community wants, and troubleshoot them accordingly. This one is hardly game-breaking, so I highly doubt that they've already concluded that it's not worth the effort.

Instead of making excuses for them, I'd much rather see the community step up to make sure that appropriate changes are made before the final release. Beta testers should push it to SE, and hear the answer straight from the horse's mouth if it's not something they want.
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#95 Apr 22 2010 at 10:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Eske wrote:
At any rate, it's their prerogative to include features that the community wants, and troubleshoot them accordingly. This one is hardly game-breaking, so I highly doubt that they've already concluded that it's not worth the effort.

Time spent on that feature means time spent not on others. Sometimes, you drop a feature that's interesting because you really can't afford to lose another feature that's more interesting?

There's a difference between a game that offers an optional surname (i.e. LOTRO, EQ) and a game that has dialogue planned to use first names and surnames individually. In the case of characters with no surname, you have to change all the dialogues to fit. It seems trivail, but I assure you, it's not, depending on how you made your system and how the authors planned to use it.

I am not against the idea of asking Square-enyx to allow no-surname characters. However, I wouldn't push for it, because I think the downside of forcing it is trivial enough and fixing it might not be worth the effort. I understand some may disagree, and they would rather be able to use the name they really want rather than another minor feature such as sitting on benches in town. It's just a matter of opinion and priorities, and those things vary wildly between each gamer (want their needs satisfied), designer (want to please everyone) and producer (want to please the majority).

Eske wrote:
I'm more inclined to believe that the forced surname situation from the alpha is the result of an oversight (or simply because it's hyper-early in the development process and they haven't addressed it yet), rather than a deliberate choice.

I'm pretty sure it's the opposite and I assume it'll be the same way in live. That's simply my programmer-analyst background trying to understand their tought process, and "if I was in their shoe, would I do things that way?"

Perhaps I'll be proven wrong, but I rather be the pessimistic kind, and happily surprised, than the optimistic kind who is disappointed.
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#96 Apr 22 2010 at 11:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Last names are a gimmick.

I will just be Trubbles.

:)
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#97 Apr 22 2010 at 11:41 AM Rating: Decent
I wanna see a Homer Simpson...
#98 Apr 22 2010 at 2:14 PM Rating: Good
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Bluefirefly wrote:
Ok, this is the last time I'm posting in this thread because it has been officially overrun with stupidity. I'm not frothing at the mouth by any means. At this point I don't even care anymore. What irked me wasn't the idea of required surnames, although I am obviously against them, it was the army of buffoons that raided the thread trying to argue against them being optional with completely crap arguments that annoyed me. If you guys consider what I did flipping out, then maybe you're smoking a little too much pot, brahs.


Protip - when conducting an argument or trying to convince someone of your point, it's best to not dissolve into a sputtering of random insults and convictions of idiocy. It seems a tad unfair to criticize everyones intelligence simply because a few members can not understand or agree with what you are saying.

As to the argument, I'm for required surnames, on the simple basis of aesthetics. I have weird hangups about consistency and it would distract me to see some people with two names and some with one. I'm not saying this invalidates any reasons to make surnames optional, it's just my opinion on the matter.

I'm in the same boat as a lot of people, my online moniker has always been Lomelindi. Upon hearing about this surname business I was both afraid and excited. For one, I had no idea what I would choose to go with a name like Lomelindi. (Consequently I just dove back into Tolkien languages and found something that works quite well) BUT, I was also relieved. Lomelindi is a popular name, it means nightingale and is the name of some band in England. Point is, every time I start a game, join a forum or do anything that requires a name I shudder at what I should do if Lomelindi is already taken. (Take alla... someone else had Lomelindi ;; ) Now, I can enjoy my name, and so can mr-johnny-english -guy who just likes the band. It solves a few problems, and quelled my fears.
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#99 Apr 22 2010 at 2:30 PM Rating: Good
Eske wrote:
Personally, no, I'm not a fan. I like the name my way. This is a subjective feeling, so it's not really up for suggestions.
That's the problem though. It's not hard to think up a two part name or an clever addition to an existing name, you're just completely unreceptive to it because you're soo fixated on your old name. If you didn't have that attachment it would be a complete non-issue. You're acting like this is the end of the world when it's actaully a minor inconvenience at absolute worst (thus the picture: I'm trivializing your objections because they are trivial).
Eske wrote:
I'll ask again: what's the good reason for not letting me just have the name I want?
I listed several already at the top of the page. Even if it's purely a visual aesthetic decision on SE's part that's justification enough. As I pointed out earlier there are plenty of arbitrary naming conventions for FFXI already, this one isn't out of line.
Eske wrote:
Note that I never said that I do "not care", as you so deliberately misquoted me.
The actual [q uoted] section isn't misquoted (ctrl+x, crtl+v), and the implied meaning within the "_" is the same (if you "don't care" then it's "not a big deal" and vice versa), so I'm not sure what you're talking about. If you feel I misunderstood you and twisted what you said in any appreciable way you'll have to be more specific.
Eske wrote:
We can't have a rational debate on the topic until you stop going all ad hominem.
I either missed something or doesn't mean what you think it means. The picture and everything else I can find I've written has been directed at flaws in your argument, not you personally. Blue is the only one that I can see that has resorted to Ad Hominem attacks.
PLDX wrote:
Am I the only one that likes the name "Armadillo Ferguson"?
While an armadillo in a kilt with bagpipes would be amusing, I have the feeling that's not what he's going for XD
Eske wrote:
I'm more inclined to believe that the forced surname situation from the alpha is the result of an oversight (or simply because it's hyper-early in the development process and they haven't addressed it yet), rather than a deliberate choice.
I disagree, if SE is trying to do basic debugging that seems like one of the obvious things they'd want in there.
Eske wrote:
Off the top of my head, a conditional statement or two related to, say, whether or not a "space" is found in the character name would resolve that issue entirely.
That's an incredibly inefficient way to do it on a regular basis (and MMOs in particular need to be as efficient as possible), better to have a check box on initial naming and an extra 0||1 stored somewhere in your character's information file. Next comment explains why this is completely irrelevant.
Eske wrote:
the issues that you listed don't seem very difficult at all.
I can see how it seems easy, but it's the type of problem that compounds extremely quickly and can cause all sorts of problems with clarity and consistency. Not to mention that they would have to write new dialogue for every instance and then translate all that additional dialogue into 5(?) languages. Minor difference to players, major impact on SE's bottom line. Players aren't going to not play over something like this and will quickly adjust to it after they start playing, so there is no point from SE's perspective in going to the effort.
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#100 Apr 22 2010 at 2:38 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm in the same boat as a lot of people, my online moniker has always been Lomelindi. Upon hearing about this surname business I was both afraid and excited. For one, I had no idea what I would choose to go with a name like Lomelindi. (Consequently I just dove back into Tolkien languages and found something that works quite well) BUT, I was also relieved. Lomelindi is a popular name, it means nightingale and is the name of some band in England. Point is, every time I start a game, join a forum or do anything that requires a name I shudder at what I should do if Lomelindi is already taken. (Take alla... someone else had Lomelindi ;; ) Now, I can enjoy my name, and so can mr-johnny-english -guy who just likes the band. It solves a few problems, and quelled my fears.


Ditto, I almost always use the name Sojiro for about anything I can get away with online unless of course its taken, and i've had to deal with that many times (alla is a case in point), I think i've come up with a last name to go with it, but just for safety sake to FINALLY be able to use Sojiro in an MMO i'm going to keep it to myself.

*Bah i'm horrible at quoting =s

Edited, Apr 22nd 2010 3:39pm by Ipwnrice
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#101 Apr 22 2010 at 4:12 PM Rating: Good
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6,470 posts
Professor shintasama wrote:
That's the problem though. It's not hard to think up a two part name or an clever addition to an existing name, you're just completely unreceptive to it because you're soo fixated on your old name. If you didn't have that attachment it would be a complete non-issue.


Have you been reading my posts at all? I literally just addressed this in my last post. I'll restate it again, anyway: I'm not arguing that it's hard to come up with another name. In fact, I said "it's not a big deal". What I am arguing, is that it's a less desirable situation than being able to simply name the character what I want, and let SE do whatever work needs to be done to make that happen. That situation is (arguably) even easier, because it involves absolutely no effort by the player base. So who's making a big deal out of something trivial, here?

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You're acting like this is the end of the world


Boy, that's a **** of a gross exaggeration. If you honestly think that, then I give up, I won't be able to help you see otherwise.

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I listed several already at the top of the page.


Oh, these?

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1) the two name convention is like requiring X number of letters in a name, it decreases chances of duplicates 2) it fits with the visual aesthetics of the rest of the game 3) it opens up new dialogue options with regards to formality (which is not just a .jp concept, Blue you bigot) 4) it makes joke/statement/object names more awkward encouraging people to choose names that are more immersive 5) because SE feels like it.


1) Do we have a pressing issue of duplicates that's been dying to be addressed?
2) Two-part names are a very, very minor aspect of the game's aesthetics. While sure, this could conceivably be a reason for SE opting to make it this way, is it more important than players being able to name their characters what they want? I would argue that no, it's not. Not by a long shot. And there have been enough people in this thread alone echoing my sentiments that I'm confident that I'm not alone in feeling this way.
3) Same here...is this marginal benefit worth not being able to just name my character what I want? I don't think so.
4) Frankly, no it doesn't. See my response to Lianda illustrating that there's absolutely no difference in people's ability to make a joke name.
5) Not a good reason, obviously.

There. I've addressed your points. Ball's in your court.

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The actual [q uoted] section isn't misquoted (ctrl+x, crtl+v), and the implied meaning within the "_" is the same (if you "don't care" then it's "not a big deal" and vice versa), so I'm not sure what you're talking about. If you feel I misunderstood you and twisted what you said in any appreciable way you'll have to be more specific.


There's a very clear difference between "I don't care" and "It's not a big deal". Don't see it? Fine. The first is a definite. The second is not. If I "do not care" about something, then it stands to reason that I can't argue it. If it's "not a big deal", I'm still free to discuss the "small deal" for debate purposes. It exists on some level, so it can be addressed.

You used this as an example of me being "contradictory". As I've now shown, it isn't.

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I either missed something or doesn't mean what you think it means. The picture and everything else I can find I've written has been directed at flaws in your argument, not you personally. Blue is the only one that I can see that has resorted to Ad Hominem attacks.


First of all, "QQ MOAR", is ad hominem. Perhaps you meant it towards Blue, but you wrote it after a paragraph that was addressed to me, so obviously that's how I took it. And if you're curious, that's the one that really got my hackles up in the first place.

Ad hominem attacks do not have to be direct insults, or outwardly deragatory. They can also be implied condescension, or a trivialization of another's point of view via oversimplification or exaggeration. "The sky is falling" was a fable that chided mass hysteria over non-issues. This in-and-of-itself wouldn't be ad hominem, except for the fact that I haven't done anything in this thread other than lobby my case. Me arguing my point of view /= me being hysterical. Insinuating as much is ad hominem, because instead of addressing my points (which I keep asking you to do, and you keep ignoring), you just keep alluding to me freaking out or being hysterical. In fact, I'm actually being very level-headed...perhaps you're reading a tone from my text that isn't there. But I'm not having issues carrying on a mature debate with Lianda, so I'm more inclined to think that you're talking out your ***.

I've written ad nauseum about how I'm not saying that this is a huge issue. I think it's a quibble, honestly. But I think it's a quibble with a very clear solution, so I'm debating it. You having completely ignored that point, which I've made now at least 5 times, demonstrates that you're not attacking my argument, you're attacking my credibility as a person. In your eyes, I'm just overreacting hysterically. But you're wrong for all the above reasons.

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I can see how it seems easy, but it's the type of problem that compounds extremely quickly and can cause all sorts of problems with clarity and consistency. Not to mention that they would have to write new dialogue for every instance and then translate all that additional dialogue into 5(?) languages. Minor difference to players, major impact on SE's bottom line. Players aren't going to not play over something like this and will quickly adjust to it after they start playing, so there is no point from SE's perspective in going to the effort.


But it's been done before in other MMO's.

To Lianda:

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I understand some may disagree, and they would rather be able to use the name they really want rather than another minor feature such as sitting on benches in town. It's just a matter of opinion and priorities, and those things vary wildly between each gamer (want their needs satisfied), designer (want to please everyone) and producer (want to please the majority).


See, when you argue this position, it places my issue against the infinite amount of other design choices that SE can make. And if we extend the argument to other situations, then we can never suggest any design in the game...because why do one thing, when they could devote the resources to (infinite) other things.

I think you're getting to a tricky point here. When you say that you'd rather that SE devote the resources to other matters, we get into a difficult position. There may be a point sometime in the near future where you yourself want something in the game, and if your opinion is shared by many, I doubt you'll be satisfied by another, smaller population in the game saying "I'd rather they just work on something else, instead." In this manner, you argue that every single decision in the game is detrimental to any other pursuit, simply because it uses resources. You use the example of "allowing players to sit on benches"...say you made a post saying "wouldn't it be cool if we could sit on benches?"...now everyone can just come in and say, "I'd rather they work on something else". And we can go on and on, doing this for every single design choice. What gets accomplished by this cynical, counter-productive argument?

You've agreed with me that surnames being optional is of, at worst, marginal detriment to the game's integrity. As you can see from the responses in the thread, many people feel that making surnames optional would be of significant benefit to the game. If we take the generally positive response from people in this thread to be at least partially indicative of the game's full population, then wouldn't it stand to reason that we should weigh the For's vs. the Against, and just do it? (This being applicable because it's of no detriment to the player base if surnames are optional. I'm comfortable saying that because your arguments are largely based upon what's difficult for SE, not us).

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It's just a matter of opinion and priorities, and those things vary wildly between each gamer (want their needs satisfied), designer (want to please everyone) and producer (want to please the majority).


To me, you seem to be in the minority on this issue, and your argument is hedging chiefly on hypotheticals. I think it's clear that there's a significant portion of the population that would rather the names be optional. Obviously, since I can't prove this, we're probably at an impass.

I say, let SE devote an extra week to coding it properly. Or let them pay another employee to get it done. Whatever. And if it takes out time that would otherwise be spent allowing us to sit on benches, then let 'em work on the benches once they fix this issue. Just shift everything back a week. Where's the harm in that?



Edited, Apr 22nd 2010 6:33pm by Eske

Edited, Apr 22nd 2010 6:36pm by Eske
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