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#1 Apr 25 2010 at 9:05 PM Rating: Good
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While reading another post that mentioned lending gear, I suddenly though of a decent way to implement a borrowing system that could help to do away with some of the uncertainty of handing over gear...this is all assuming you can trade worthwhile gear....

The basic system would be as follows:

When trading there would be some sort of option labeled "lend" which when checked, pops up a dialog which would allow you to specify a time period, hours, days, weeks.....

A short time before expiring (minutes before) the borrower would receive a message telling him so, with the option to renew which would then prompt the lender.

If the item is not renewed it is automatically sent to lenders inbox

I was also thinking of some sort of Gil loan implementation but that would most likely be abused and dismantled by RMT

That's the idea...silly?....worthless...?...simply amazing?




#2 Apr 25 2010 at 9:31 PM Rating: Excellent
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Honestly the only people I would be interested in taking the time to lend gear to would be friends who I would trust enough not to need this system.

If SE implements this type of system, I could imagine getting bombarded by requests from complete strangers to borrow my gear on a daily basis just because it would be "safe" to do so.
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#3 Apr 25 2010 at 9:36 PM Rating: Good
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fair enough
#4 Apr 25 2010 at 9:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Sounds good on paper but what would happen if some douchebag drops/sells/gives away lended gear? Or if you're tanking for a PT when times up and the lender isn't logged on?
#5 Apr 25 2010 at 9:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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BubbleGumCrisis wrote:
Sounds good on paper but what would happen if some douchebag drops/sells/gives away lended gear?

Obviously the system would prevent that.
BubbleGumCrisis wrote:
Or if you're tanking for a PT when times up and the lender isn't logged on?

Probably the same thing that happens every other time you don't plan ahead.



I agree with akirussan; the flaw isn't in the mechanics, but in how people will treat the system. It also creates a host of new problems. The foremost being is that it's another door for RMT. I can easily see players or businesses renting or "selling (by renting on a near permanent basis) gear to other players. A lesser problem being that it allows players with friends in high places to have increased access to gear they haven't earned. It trivializes content because you don't have to kill a boss to wear his awesome drops.
#6 Apr 25 2010 at 10:19 PM Rating: Decent
The devs have hinted very strongly that gear will be leaning more towards the 'Ex' side of things this time around. That having been said, the old adage always holds true: "Neither a borrower nor a lender be." Stick to that and lending issues become non-issues.
#7 Apr 25 2010 at 10:24 PM Rating: Decent
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IN a past interview. ( I cannot find it) SE said when you have your gear repaired you do not need to trade it to have it repaired. So no one needs to worry about loosing gear to have it repaired. TRADING gear to another person is up to you.
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#8 Apr 25 2010 at 11:58 PM Rating: Good
Neat Idea. To be honest, I don't see it ever getting implemented, but I wish more people would think creatively about solving the classic mmo scams/pitfalls. I personally think that if players/fans can come up with solutions such as this, Square Enix should definitely have fixed all the ninja lot, botting and rmt mechanics. As other posts show, Square Enix is changing some things to address the rampant scams or dupes, but I can't wait -- FFXIV is definitely going to have its share of rmt and thieves.
#9 Apr 26 2010 at 9:13 AM Rating: Good
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It's not a bad idea. Although if you suspect at all the person you're lending to might try and rip you off why would you lend anything to them?
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#10 Apr 26 2010 at 9:40 AM Rating: Good
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This would work great in linkshells/guilds who have a stash of equipment, and who are looking to recruit low level members. What a great member perk it would be to have equipment to offer members.

Personally I enjoy the struggle of the low levels for currency, equipment, and resources, but if I had been playing a game for years, or if I was new and all my friends were 70 levels ahead of me, then a gear lending system would be great.
#11 Apr 26 2010 at 12:16 PM Rating: Decent
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If they allow this, I'm opening a gear rental service.
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#12 Apr 26 2010 at 5:29 PM Rating: Good
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LestatXIV wrote:
It's not a bad idea. Although if you suspect at all the person you're lending to might try and rip you off why would you lend anything to them?


I see your point but relationships can change in the blink of an eye.
#13 Apr 26 2010 at 5:30 PM Rating: Good
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Zrysaadi wrote:
This would work great in linkshells/guilds who have a stash of equipment, and who are looking to recruit low level members. What a great member perk it would be to have equipment to offer members.

Personally I enjoy the struggle of the low levels for currency, equipment, and resources, but if I had been playing a game for years, or if I was new and all my friends were 70 levels ahead of me, then a gear lending system would be great.


I love it!
#14 Apr 26 2010 at 7:30 PM Rating: Good
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Zrysaadi wrote:
This would work great in linkshells/guilds who have a stash of equipment, and who are looking to recruit low level members. What a great member perk it would be to have equipment to offer members.

Personally I enjoy the struggle of the low levels for currency, equipment, and resources, but if I had been playing a game for years, or if I was new and all my friends were 70 levels ahead of me, then a gear lending system would be great.


You know this reminds of a system used in a text based MMO I used to play called PirateQuest. In it you could join Pirate crews which were essentially guilds and they were actually very well organized. Within the crews there was an armory system in which you could donate gear and weapons and these weapons became available to be loaned or checked out by any member of the crew. It worked perfectly and I always thought it was a great system.

I wouldn't mind seeing a system like this at all in XIV especially if it was managed within guilds. Any expansion on XI's bland Linkshell system is good in my book.
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#15 Apr 26 2010 at 7:36 PM Rating: Good
What they really need to do is implement an optional text notice system for trading so no one can be ripped off or accused or false trading.
So many times players are said to never have traded or received anything resulting in retarded disputes.

What this does is announce a trade has happened.
Similar how ffxi /emotes, /shouts, /l or /p works.

You turn on this feature in your config filters so thus it will work like this example:
Lets have 2 players called CliveStrife and WildGunz which are trading wind crystals.

CliveStrife (has trading filters ON)
WildGunz (has trading filters OFF)

Trading results in message (viewable like /say) "CliveStrife Traded a Wind Crystal to Wildgunz"
"Traded" which means WildGunz has accepted and received the Wind Crystal from CliveStrife regardless if his trade filters are set to OFF.

Both filters set to ON would look like this:
CliveStrife (has trading filters ON)
WildGunz (has trading filters ON)
Trading results in message (viewable like /say) "CliveStrife Trades a Wind Crystal and Wildgunz successfully has received."

Lending system sounds ok but there are problems with it as there would have to be a set time limit or return request that would force the item back to the original owner.
Of course the borrower can't sell, bazaar or trade (traded only to the original owner) the loaned item to anyone there would still be a few issues to work out.
The player will not trade back the item, he/she is not online, bad connection (RED Dots) etc etc.

The only way i see it could work is if a shadow copy of the item is loaned to requester.
The original item would remain in the owner's inventory faded or marked out and unusable.
This way no matter what the borrower does, the item would be returned/restored upon set rules of the trading system or by the owner's request.
Now when the borrower logs back on, their borrowed item would become unusable.
Of course when the borrower is online and lets say maybe in some event while using the item, the owner could request it back and the borrower is sent a notice of the owner's request and their item may become unusable after 3 minutes.

The trading system sounds good if they do it right but sounds like much coding will be involved and i wouldn't want the game delayed.
I think the should implement the text based trading notices first which would possibly require much less coding involved.
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#16 Apr 26 2010 at 10:29 PM Rating: Decent
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My first thought was "No, too easy to abuse." My second thought was, "No, I don't want to be bombarded by tells asking to borrow my gear."

However...

If done right, the system would be fairly hard to abuse badly. In fact, the only "abuse" I could see is people lending out their gear for money. But wait, doesn't that already happen? Take FFXI. You get a piece of equipment for you Thief. You use it, but then want to switch to a Mage job. What do you do? You put it on the AH. (Or store it, but since storage is very limited, most people would put it on the AH.) You play Blm for a week, then want to go back to Thief. What do you do? Buy the equipment back that you sold last week. (And if done correctly, you make a tidy profit.)

Now all this assumes that SE goes out of their way to prevent cons, scams and other idiocy from happening.

As for the second point, isn't that what /ignore (or blacklist) is for? We get tells all the time in game. A good deal of the are unsolicited. "Hey, we need a healer. Want to come to so-and-so?" "Can I get a D2?" "Raise me. lololol!"

What do we do in those situations? Either ignore it, politely decline, or even accept. Would this be any different? And for the people who pester you too much, just /blacklist them like you would any other spammer.

I think the system has some merit. If done properly, anyway.
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#17 Apr 27 2010 at 7:02 AM Rating: Good
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I think the idea is pretty cool. In my own circle of friends, we swapped stuff all the time. The only problem we ever really had was that the owner of a piece of gear might want to use it again, but the person who has it is offline, keeps missing them online, whatever. The time idea was great.

However, having worked in support for a few major MMOs teaches you to look for the worst possible angle (because you just knew that eventually, the players would bring that issue up...). So, I very seriously doubt this would be implemented because as soon as someone said something about GMs having to deal with more tickets just based on trading fraud*, the support managers would freak and strongly recommend this not be added. Kinda sucks, but I've see that happen too many times.

Anyway, it's a good idea, and I'd love to be wrong about it. ^^


*I do realize that trading fraud already happens, but this kind of fraud, or the suspicion of it, would increase once a system was added that encouraged more trades. Ultimately, GMs have hard proof of everything that happens, but taking the time to investigate those is always a pain, and support managers will avoid that mess if they can.
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#18 Apr 27 2010 at 9:19 AM Rating: Good
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Ne1 see that movie repo-men? I can see GM's turning into that
#19 Apr 28 2010 at 3:48 PM Rating: Good
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This is probably one of the best suggestions I've seen posted under this forum thus far.

Problems with "dropping" and "trading" could easily be corrected by making the item undroppable, and making the item rare/ex (or equivalent).

The only impediment to this I see is one of technical viability. Is something like this difficult to add-in?

Seriously, if anyone is in the Alpha PLEASE INCLUDE THIS UNDER YOUR SUGGESTIONS FOR IMPROVEMENT.

Edit: oh, and I see no problems with running a gear rental store.

Edited, Apr 28th 2010 4:49pm by Onionthiefx
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#20 Apr 28 2010 at 4:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Old idea is good.
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#21 Apr 28 2010 at 5:07 PM Rating: Default
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Onionthiefx wrote:
Edit: oh, and I see no problems with running a gear rental store.

Why do you love RMT?
#22 Apr 28 2010 at 8:39 PM Rating: Decent
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I see know problems with people farming good to make money. Does that make me an RMT lover too?

Or perhaps better: "ZOMG! The ***** breathed air! And YOU breathe air! Therefore, you're no better than a ****!"

I'll never understand where such irrational statements come from.
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#23 Apr 28 2010 at 9:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Caia wrote:
I see know problems with people farming good to make money. Does that make me an RMT lover too?

Or perhaps better: "ZOMG! The ***** breathed air! And YOU breathe air! Therefore, you're no better than a ****!"

I'll never understand where such irrational statements come from.


If you look like a RMT, walk like a RMT and talk like a RMT... you must be a RMT.
Considering everything you have "no problems" with, one could easily mistake you for a RMT, since RMT would greatly prosper under your conditions.
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#24 Apr 28 2010 at 9:12 PM Rating: Default
RedGalka wrote:
Caia wrote:
I see know problems with people farming good to make money. Does that make me an RMT lover too?

Or perhaps better: "ZOMG! The ***** breathed air! And YOU breathe air! Therefore, you're no better than a ****!"

I'll never understand where such irrational statements come from.


If you look like a RMT, walk like a RMT and talk like a RMT... you must be a RMT.
Considering everything you have "no problems" with, one could easily mistake you for a RMT, since RMT would greatly prosper under your conditions.


I know that this is going to **** off a certain number of people, but since when have I cared about that?

RMT -> get over it.

Unless and until SE demonstrates very clearly that they learned next to nothing about handling RMT in FFXI, this FFXI player obsession with RMT will have no place in FFXIV. RMT destroyed FFXI for a very substantial length of time because SE was too slow in responding to it and their response, when it did come, was wholly inadequate for altogether too long. They've had 5+ years to examine not only what RMT was doing in FFXI but also what other MMO devs have done to address RMT and build solutions into FFXIV from the ground up. If anything/everything in FFXIV is going to be scrutinzed from the, "How could RMT exploit this?" angle, you might as well play a standalone game. There's no such thing as an MMO that is totally devoid of RMT presence...there never will be. That doesn't mean that everything that might open the door to RMT is a bad idea, nor does it mean that this rampant paranoia is serving any useful purpose. Wait and see.
#25 Apr 28 2010 at 9:27 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
If you look like a RMT, walk like a RMT and talk like a RMT... you must be a RMT.
Considering everything you have "no problems" with, one could easily mistake you for a RMT, since RMT would greatly prosper under your conditions.


...and?

RMT greatly prospered when FFXI allowed people to farm materials. They greatly prospered when FFXI had an AH. You're saying we should get rid of these things in order to combat RMT? You're saying we should instantly dismiss ANY idea that RMT MIGHT be able to abuse? Wow. I ask again, where do people come up with these irrational ideas?

If you don't want to deal with RMT, get rid of all money and all trading in game. That's the only way to get rid of them.
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#26 Apr 28 2010 at 9:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Caia wrote:
I'll never understand where such irrational statements come from.

Wow, miss the joke much?
#27 Apr 28 2010 at 11:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Um... Possibly? Was his reply directed at me? Or was he using hyperbole? Its hard to tell in text sometimes. I assumed if I was being quoted that he was addressing me. In fact, looking at it again, I still see it as addressing me. /shrug
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#28 Apr 28 2010 at 11:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Caia wrote:
Was his reply directed at me?

I'm having difficulty determining out who you are talking to and who you are talking about. Since your post follows mine and the post before mine is yours, I'm going to assume you are both addressing and referring to me, though speaking about me in the third person is a little awkward.

I said:
Allegory wrote:
Wow, miss the joke much?

Which was a response to:
Caia wrote:
I'll never understand where such irrational statements come from.

Which I assume was a response to:
Allegory wrote:
Why do you love RMT?

Since it followed that post and made reference to ideas contained in that post.

Is there some failure of communication between us?
#29 Apr 29 2010 at 12:56 AM Rating: Decent
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I don't know. Probably. But I'm happy to pretend none of this ever happened. In fact, I plan to.
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Also... Hunter 62, Rogue 52, Warrior 66, Warlock 43, Death Knight 70, Shaman Who Cares? ;)

FFXI -- Caia -- Retired/Deleted -- Blm 75, Alchemy 97
Pandimonium server - Rank 10 - Bastok

Zaela Rdm -- 35, Alchemy 45 -- Forced into retirement because I didn't have the right kind of credit card. Hope it was worth 18 bucks a month, SE.

#30 Apr 29 2010 at 9:08 AM Rating: Decent
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Don't be a dbag Pinocchio- that's clearly not what I meant.

You need to face facts: as long as their is an opporunity in game for a player to make money off of others, RMT opportunities will always exist. By your assinine logic, we should remove crafting from the game because, ZOMG, RMTs can craft also and generate revenues from the player base!

And I'm sorry, it has never been a difficulty identifying RMT players. Even as they began to acquire better gear in FFXI, there was always something off about them- whether it was broken English, farming one spot for 16 hours a day, or that forced bazaar comment "I LOVE X PLAYER SO MUCH HAPPY HAPPY".

So activate your common sense, and don't buy from RMT (with in game currency). The more people that do this, the less the RMT problem will be.
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#31 Apr 29 2010 at 3:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Onionthiefx wrote:
Don't be a dbag Pinocchio- that's clearly not what I meant.

Wow do you get butthurt fast; chill out.
Onionthiefx wrote:
By your assinine logic, we should remove crafting from the game because, ZOMG, RMTs can craft also and generate revenues from the player base!

If you can craft and sell to other players some of the most powerful items in the game, then yes. This was exactly the problem with FFXI. You could craft sniper rings and thus they were big business for RMT. That is why FFXI had one of the most screwed up economies of any mainstream MMORPG.
Onionthiefx wrote:
So activate your common sense, and don't buy from RMT (with in game currency). The more people that do this, the less the RMT problem will be.

Common sense would tell you that you personally not buying from RMT doesn't stop thousands of other players doing so.

It's a stupid idea to be able to trade to the best equipment in the game. When you prevent that you pretty much shut down RMT completely. People can still RMT for low quality tradeable gear or to get money for potions or food, but the big stuff is out of the picture. Games become significantly more fun when people can't just buy their way to the top.
#32 Apr 29 2010 at 4:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Games become significantly more fun when people can't just buy their way to the top.


Not to mention significantly more skilled players, when you have to actually work for the good stuff.
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