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#1 Apr 28 2010 at 10:08 PM Rating: Good
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I just noticed that I gained the ability to rate up and down other people's posts and it got me thinking. What if you could rate the people you group with? Like hey this guy is a great tank, I'd recommend him, but this Marauder just follows us around and doesn't do anything. This rating might show in a looking for group type interface as a way to choose people. Would a community influenced rating system work, or would there be too many opportunities for exploitation?
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#2 Apr 28 2010 at 10:13 PM Rating: Good
desmar wrote:
I just noticed that I gained the ability to rate up and down other people's posts and it got me thinking. What if you could rate the people you group with? Like hey this guy is a great tank, I'd recommend him, but this Marauder just follows us around and doesn't do anything. This rating might show in a looking for group type interface as a way to choose people. Would a community influenced rating system work, or would there be too many opportunities for exploitation?


Too many opportunities for exploitation. Around here, karma usually takes care of itself. You'll get karma stalkers, karma trolls, rate socks, and all kinds of other little shenanigans from people who think abusing the karma system is fun times, but it doesn't really matter here because having a low or a high karma rating doesn't influence your ability to post. In-game, people would abuse the **** out of it.

"Ya, see that girl over there with the grade A player rating? Ya, it's actually a guy, but he impersonates a woman and cybers like a champion just so he'll get lots of group invites."

Nevermind the reality that a significant portion of MMO players are generally immature and more about the adolescent popularity contests and e-peen stroking. In essence, the player rating would be meaningless and everyone would know it...it would be a waste of development resources to implement it.
#3 Apr 28 2010 at 10:24 PM Rating: Decent
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Oh that cool that some of you can rate up and down, I didnt even know that existed, if that woulda been a snake it would have bit me.
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#4 Apr 28 2010 at 10:26 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
desmar wrote:
I just noticed that I gained the ability to rate up and down other people's posts and it got me thinking. What if you could rate the people you group with? Like hey this guy is a great tank, I'd recommend him, but this Marauder just follows us around and doesn't do anything. This rating might show in a looking for group type interface as a way to choose people. Would a community influenced rating system work, or would there be too many opportunities for exploitation?


Too many opportunities for exploitation. Around here, karma usually takes care of itself. You'll get karma stalkers, karma trolls, rate socks, and all kinds of other little shenanigans from people who think abusing the karma system is fun times, but it doesn't really matter here because having a low or a high karma rating doesn't influence your ability to post. In-game, people would abuse the **** out of it.

"Ya, see that girl over there with the grade A player rating? Ya, it's actually a guy, but he impersonates a woman and cybers like a champion just so he'll get lots of group invites."

Nevermind the reality that a significant portion of MMO players are generally immature and more about the adolescent popularity contests and e-peen stroking. In essence, the player rating would be meaningless and everyone would know it...it would be a waste of development resources to implement it.


This. It's a neat idea on paper, but I envision many resulting headaches.

I was expecting something very different when I clicked this thread, so I'm pleasantly surprised that it's related to FFXIV. Rate up for being creative, regardless of the idea's feasibility.

Edited, Apr 29th 2010 12:27am by Eske
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#5 Apr 28 2010 at 10:39 PM Rating: Good
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I'm sure it wouldn't work nearly perfectly, but it could be a useful tool overall.

The thing that would bother me would be looking at the rating and not knowing if it was indicative of their ability or their personality, because people would rate them based on either/both.
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#6 Apr 28 2010 at 10:47 PM Rating: Decent
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I definitely am aware of the abuses that could occur, but I was thinking about a way for the player base to regulate themselves. Sometimes when someone ninjas something, or trains stuff onto other players, the only recourse is to post on the forums. This is only relevant if a large portion of the player base reads said forum. It would be interesting if you could perhaps use a 3rd party application that maybe syncs with a Zam account or something else of that nature. People would act differently if they knew they had a chance to improve their standing, almost a digital form of public reputation. Implementation would definitely be hard, neigh impossible, but I think it would be cool nonetheless.
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#7 Apr 28 2010 at 10:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Someone suggested something like this a couple months ago but it was in a lot more detail. I was for it then and I'm still for it now. Sure there's a lot of room for abuse but with the right tweaking that can be limited.

One way is make it so you can't stack ratings, meaning, you can't rate someone up or down several times. You can either approve of that player or disapprove (perhaps there could even be various categories). If there are various categories certain aspects can only be rated if you have performed certain aspects with that person. Say, if you want to rate on their combat skills, you have to have been in a guildleve together. Or if you want to comment on the person's crafting skills, you have to have traded with the person. There could also be a personality rating that anyone can vote on, so best be civil in general chat. To further avoid idiots from stacking too many approvals or disapprovals (cheating the system), the rating only lasts a week and you have to do it over again. If you haven't logged in for a while (gone on vacation or took a break from the game) the rating for the last time you logged in will be waiting when you come back. One more safeguard is you can only vote for one person per account so you can't make alts and vote for the same person.

I'll try and find the last time someone suggested like this...it was a good thread.
#8 Apr 28 2010 at 10:51 PM Rating: Decent
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EDIT: changed my mind...nothing to see here.

Edited, Apr 29th 2010 12:52am by Eske
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#9 Apr 28 2010 at 11:01 PM Rating: Good
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I found the thread I was looking for:
http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?game=268&mid=12453719608622503#msg124560666465419613

It's a long post with the part I'm talking about at the very end of the post so I'll quote if for your lazy pleasure:
ChinookFFXIV wrote:
Another idea : The Heart system

Players could get "hearts" from other players depending on their combat and social skills.The heart-giving player name would appear, so everyone would not give hearts to anyone. You could also have the possibility to rate down a player (that would remove an existing heart). But it can't go negative. Requirements for giving a heart or or rating down a player would be to be in a party with this player for at least 30 minutes (and a time-frame of 1 hour after party). Hearts would remain for 48 play hours, then disappear. This system would help detecting skilled players. You could also look back at the entire list of people you hearted / unhearted. An easy way to remember the skilled players you partied with, and the players to avoid at all costs. And you could have the option to see a small heart floating next to players names that you hearted when you meet them in town or on the field.


You can see the idea stuck with me as a lot of the ways I mentioned for making it fair came from this post.

EDIT: Too many people dismiss good ideas out of hand simply because they think it would be abused. Think of ways around that...that's what our brains are for.

Edited, Apr 28th 2010 11:06pm by Yogtheterrible
#10 Apr 28 2010 at 11:23 PM Rating: Decent
Yogtheterrible wrote:
You can see the idea stuck with me as a lot of the ways I mentioned for making it fair came from this post.

EDIT: Too many people dismiss good ideas out of hand simply because they think it would be abused. Think of ways around that...that's what our brains are for.


It's not a concern of whether or not it would be abused...because it would be, no matter how carefully it was implemented. And the smart players would know that it was fully subjective and functionally meaningless. So why bother putting development time into something that will just be a pointless feature, much less one that would create an almost endless stream of ******** and conflict because "people keep rating me down in parties" and "I've partied with so-and-so a few times and not only is he a bad player, he's also a mouthy idiot but he has a good player rating because he and his idiot buddies just group with one another and rate each other up." At the very least, the ******** would eventually focus on, "This is a stupid waste of time SE...just get rid of it."

It's not going to be incentive for idiot players to smarten up, it's not going to be incentive for mediocre players to improve their game. It would just be one giant circle jerk.

I do my best not to judge people based on what other people have said about them. If you're going to place any weight whatsoever on those ratings in determining whether or not you're going to invite that stranger to a party, you're immature. If you're not going to put any weight on it, it's a useless system and why bother?

Again...half decent on paper...useless and potentially harmful in application.
#11 Apr 28 2010 at 11:44 PM Rating: Decent
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If you're only allowed to rate each person once (but can change that rating), I don't see that much potential for abuse.

Seems unlikely that it would be useless. It wouldn't always be a perfect system, but what is? If someone has an 8 from 239 player ratings, and someone else has a 4 from 352 ratings, then maybe somewhere the system has been abused, but most likely, the person with an 8 is a decent player and the person with a 4 is either incompetent or a bit of an ***. Unless large groups of players decide to bombard you with 1's, your rating will probably be fine.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

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Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#12 Apr 28 2010 at 11:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Yogtheterrible wrote:
EDIT: Too many people dismiss good ideas out of hand simply because they think it would be abused. Think of ways around that...that's what our brains are for.

It's a fundamental flaw, there is no way around it without making the system useless. You can fix problems with mechanics, but you can't dictate the actions of the players.

When podnering on mechanics you need to ask are "can players do it?" and "would they want to do it?" If the answers to both of those questions is yes, then players will do it.
#13 Apr 28 2010 at 11:51 PM Rating: Decent
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Word of mouth is often a better indicator of someone's ability. If you hear "Oh, grab so-and-so, he was awesome in party yesterday," I'd give that far more weight than a karma like system.
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#14 Apr 29 2010 at 12:02 AM Rating: Decent
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I assume that depends on who the referral is coming from? Word of mouth from one random person is hardly a better indicator of ability than ratings from hundreds of people. You might trust one of your friends' assessments more than 300 ratings combined, and that would be a totally fair judgment, but how often do you have no information about the people in question?
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#15 Apr 29 2010 at 12:06 AM Rating: Good
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Allegory wrote:
Yogtheterrible wrote:
EDIT: Too many people dismiss good ideas out of hand simply because they think it would be abused. Think of ways around that...that's what our brains are for.

It's a fundamental flaw, there is no way around it without making the system useless. You can fix problems with mechanics, but you can't dictate the actions of the players.

When podnering on mechanics you need to ask are "can players do it?" and "would they want to do it?" If the answers to both of those questions is yes, then players will do it.


I've played enough FPS's to know that this is true. It's mind-boggling how much time people will waste using some exploit to raise their name to the top of the leaderboard. In Call of Duty, players will spend hours upon hours taking turns letting themselves be killed by a friend in the corner of the map, just so that they can get a tiny little logo. Unfortunately, it cheapens what would otherwise be a fun system of achievement, and often makes it almost entirely worthless.

It's sad, but there doesn't even have to be much incentive for people to go to exorbitant lengths to exploit a system. Call me a pessimist, but I think this idea would be doomed to the same fate. And I don't think that the rewards outweigh the risks here.

Edited, Apr 29th 2010 2:06am by Eske

Edited, Apr 29th 2010 2:10am by Eske
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#16 Apr 29 2010 at 12:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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I agree with Caia.

This would probably become another form of exclusion. Instead of your gear not being good enough, you'd have to rely on other players to prove your worth a darn, rather than just playing well and doing your 'job'. Party well, help folks out, and your rep will go with you. Train mobs, ninja drops, the same happens. In the end, it winds up being a pretty small world out there, and people will know one way or the other.

Edited, Apr 28th 2010 11:27pm by LebargeX
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#17 Apr 29 2010 at 12:39 AM Rating: Good
LebargeX wrote:
I agree with Caia.

This would probably become another form of exclusion. Instead of your gear not being good enough, you'd have to rely on other players to prove your worth a darn, rather than just playing well and doing your 'job'. Party well, help folks out, and your rep will go with you. Train mobs, ninja drops, the same happens. In the end, it winds up being a pretty small world out there, and people will know one way or the other.

Edited, Apr 28th 2010 11:27pm by LebargeX



This pretty much sums up how I feel about this rate up/down idea.
#18 Apr 29 2010 at 12:54 AM Rating: Decent
Kachi wrote:
If you're only allowed to rate each person once (but can change that rating), I don't see that much potential for abuse.

Seems unlikely that it would be useless. It wouldn't always be a perfect system, but what is? If someone has an 8 from 239 player ratings, and someone else has a 4 from 352 ratings, then maybe somewhere the system has been abused, but most likely, the person with an 8 is a decent player and the person with a 4 is either incompetent or a bit of an ***. Unless large groups of players decide to bombard you with 1's, your rating will probably be fine.


I take it from your naive assumptions that you've never played a healer or, to a lesser extent, a tank. Do you have any idea how much grief healers get in random groups from snivelling nublets who are seemingly under the impression that all heals are instant-cast, group-wide AoE that instanty restore HP to full and cost no MP? It's absolutely astounding. Do you have any idea how quickly your average scrub can get all butthurt when he ignores the tank's request to approach an encounter a certain way and gets gibbed trying to be the maverick hero? Mind boggling.

Naive in experience is naive inexperience. Call it a good idea if you must...it's not going to happen, and for good reason. SE will not implement a player rating system, and that's all that really matters.
#19 Apr 29 2010 at 1:21 AM Rating: Good
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I assume that depends on who the referral is coming from? Word of mouth from one random person is hardly a better indicator of ability than ratings from hundreds of people. You might trust one of your friends' assessments more than 300 ratings combined, and that would be a totally fair judgment, but how often do you have no information about the people in question?


Actually, when the response is positive, it is surprisingly accurate. Look at it this way. You want the most exp/hr you can get. If X did a good job yesterday, chances are decent that he'd do a good job again. So you know have a known quantity. Now, you can grab him or some random person you've never grouped with before. Because you want the most exp/hr, you have a fairly strong incentive to grab a known good quantity vs a random quantity. In such a case, you're likely to say, "Hey, grab him. He was awesome yesterday." You'd have no reason to lie, so I can reasonably and fairly accurately take what was said as true.

Now, this doesn't always work by any means. If you happen to be a newb (or a noob) your opinion may not be as valid. But, its usually pretty easy to figure out if you are just by what you say or how you say it.

The other pitfall is that if you know your friend is on and, even if he's not "awesome," you want to party with him. But in this case, the small world syndrome catches up with you pretty quick. To linkshell: "Yeah, Jimmy said Billy was awesome. Billy is NOT awesome. Be wary of Jimmy's opinions on people in the future." So, either people learn not to exaggerate their friends pretty quickly OR they tend to become the Jimmys of MMORPGs pretty quickly.

So, yes, if the response is positive, I'd give it more weight than some karma system. Karma systems are very easy to manipulate. Positive word of mouth isn't.
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#20 Apr 29 2010 at 2:28 AM Rating: Good
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I take it from your naive assumptions that you've never played a healer or, to a lesser extent, a tank. Do you have any idea how much grief healers get in random groups from snivelling nublets who are seemingly under the impression that all heals are instant-cast, group-wide AoE that instanty restore HP to full and cost no MP? It's absolutely astounding. Do you have any idea how quickly your average scrub can get all butthurt when he ignores the tank's request to approach an encounter a certain way and gets gibbed trying to be the maverick hero? Mind boggling.


I've tanked and healed in the noobiest of parties, and I have plenty of idea. However, you are talking about noobs, who will themselves be consistently downrated if they continue to take their tanks and healers for granted. I think you overstate your case.

Quote:
So, yes, if the response is positive, I'd give it more weight than some karma system. Karma systems are very easy to manipulate. Positive word of mouth isn't.


Karma systems aren't that easy to meaningfully manipulate over time on a one-rate-per-character/account policy.

These concerns would even be considerably lessened by requiring a certain amount of progress to rate, which would essentially negate the use of alt-rating and allow noobs an opportunity to learn how the game works before resorting to making snap judgments.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think it's a great idea. I think it's a neat idea that could be marginally useful if implemented properly, rather than the disaster scenario that some people seem to think. And no, it will almost certainly not be implemented, but when has that ever precluded hypothetical discussion?
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#21 Apr 29 2010 at 2:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Karma systems aren't that easy to meaningfully manipulate over time on a one-rate-per-character/account policy.


Yes, granted. Over a short time, they are very easy to manipulate. As time goes on they become harder and harder to mess with.

Quote:
These concerns would even be considerably lessened by requiring a certain amount of progress to rate, which would essentially negate the use of alt-rating and allow noobs an opportunity to learn how the game works before resorting to making snap judgments.


To an extent, yes. I think there are a number of regulars here in this forum that click the red arrow simply because they disagree with what was said. I disagree with it, but I don't run the site and even if I did there's no way to really police that kind of thing. That's more my concern than anything with any such karma system.

"Oh, he played fine, but he disagreed with me about where to party. He disagreed with what others we should bring into the party." Etc etc. I'm more worried that such a system would lead to people down ranking good players simply because they have a slightly different opinion on what the "optimal" place/party setup/mob to fight is. Does everyone do it? No. But I'd guess that there are enough that do it that would skew the results -- even over a long time.

So, yes, you're right, the whole idea of alt-raiding is a non-issue is its set up properly. My concern lies with the above.

Quote:
Don't get me wrong. I don't think it's a great idea. I think it's a neat idea that could be marginally useful if implemented properly, rather than the disaster scenario that some people seem to think. And no, it will almost certainly not be implemented, but when has that ever precluded hypothetical discussion?


Whoa, whoa... I'm not looking to preclude anything here. I'm just tossing out that I think word of mouth is a much better tool. I'm all for hypotheticals.

I think its a neat idea too. I just don't see it as being worthwhile for me to use. On the outside chance that it DOES get created and its done PROPERLY, some people will swear by it. That's their choice. So long as they're informed about such a choice, why would I stop them?

I'm not against the idea, per se. I just think that there is already a system in place. And the that system works very well.
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#22 Apr 29 2010 at 2:59 AM Rating: Good
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There's always ways around it, even if you do the 1 rate per character, by your account.
What's to prevent the richer, more well off IRL players to buy multiple copies of XIV, and just mass rate up their friends and what not? It's not a very logical idea, but it's a possible one.

and Karma systems are always abused. You'd get a rate down for being non-religious if you find a highly religious player, or rate down for being *** if you party with a homophobic player, it wouldn't just be based on your merit as a player.

In theory, it's a good idea. However as someone's already said, word of mouth is 100 times better than some karma system everyone knows that is manipulated.

If someone says "Don't invite Naeo, he's a horrible tank" (Which i am, i suck at tanking jobs and will not level them again because 1) they dont interest me
and 2) Well, i just really suck at keeping track of my enmity as a tank.) I would expect people to not invite me as a tank class. However, if someone says "Invite Naeo on his bard, because he's awesome" they'll invite me because i tend to pull like crazy and keep several mobs slept at once.

For Example:
If Billybob is a great Conjurer, but a horrible Fencer; one of two things would happen: he'd either never get invited, because his Karma from Fencer would carry over to Conjurer. or he'd just even out at a 2 or 3 ranking because the two rankings would clash, there by never giving a clear ranking of where he went wrong persay.

In a game where you're stuck in one class, the karma system would be more viable, but in games like FF where you can change into any class, it's just not feasible.

\\Edit: corrected an error i made in my typing ^^;

Edited, Apr 29th 2010 9:19am by Naeo
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#23 Apr 29 2010 at 3:37 AM Rating: Good
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Given random vendettas I've seemingly accrued despite very rarely posting out of malice, I can't say I have interest in any kind of player-run reputation system. People will find a way to abuse it one way or another, or ignore the system entirely if qualifications are too complicated to justify its use.

I can't say I strive to be loved, but I'd like to believe I try not to be hated. Posting incognito in other forums, I'd maybe encountered a half dozen people claiming to be from Fairy that spewed some curiously harsh bile about me despite their in-game names not ringing a bell, and basically being the best source of my own activities here. Probably the only time I throw caution out the window here is when dealing with regular trolls, but I guess the snag arises when they don't believe their trolling or have a cult following (staged with socks or legit, I dunno, but it happens).
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#24 Apr 29 2010 at 5:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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To much room for abuse and exploitation IMO. Plus, everyone loses their temper or has an off night now and then. Don't want that hanging over you.
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#25 Apr 29 2010 at 5:26 AM Rating: Decent
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Whoa, whoa... I'm not looking to preclude anything here. I'm just tossing out that I think word of mouth is a much better tool. I'm all for hypotheticals.


Sorry, that particular part wasn't really addressed towards you. I'm just too lazy to properly address people. Honestly I rarely even look at the name of who I'm replying to.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#26 Apr 29 2010 at 8:30 AM Rating: Good
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Lineage 2 had a rate up/down system in-game, and I think it worked pretty decently. You could only give a fixed number of "rates" per time period, and ratings would decay over time (positive or negative). It usually did mean that people with abnormally high ratings were "farming" them (I raise you if you'll rep me!) while people with very low rating might have been karma bombed (She broke with me and stole all my mobz, everyone rep her down!), but other than the extremes, it was a system that worked fairly well.

In the glorious days of Ultima Online, I quickly learned that mobs would "cap" your reputation at the title of lord/lady, and PVPing could get it up even higher, which usually meant that the "most honorable" players were people I wanted to avoid.
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#27 Apr 29 2010 at 9:09 AM Rating: Decent
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What if the game itself rated you? The decisions you make while in combat, meaning using the right weapon skill for the right mob the right element, positioning and not getting wipes or dieing, spending your skill points correctly.
#28 Apr 29 2010 at 9:22 AM Rating: Default
JShuriken wrote:
What if the game itself rated you? The decisions you make while in combat, meaning using the right weapon skill for the right mob the right element, positioning and not getting wipes or dieing, spending your skill points correctly.


That wouldn't work, either. It would have everyone up in arms accusing SE of trying to force cookie cutter builds on everyone and discouraging creativity.

The only practical application I've seen for rating players is in competitive PvP venues where you earn points for winning and lose points for losing and your overall rating is then used to match you with teams of (hypothetically) roughly equal performance records. Even then it was subject to abuse and people trying to manipulate it. Player performance is altogether too subjective to try and boil down into an accurate rating system.

Edited, Apr 29th 2010 8:22am by Aurelius
#29 Apr 29 2010 at 12:53 PM Rating: Excellent
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There is no need to make someone feel bad about themselves while they ARE PLAYING A GAME, the reason they are playing the game is to enjoy it! If you don't want to party with that person because your OPINION is they suck, then form your own parties and don't invite them. If you have constructive criticism that you would like to offer, ask the person if they are willing to accept your tips and leave it at that.
#30 Apr 29 2010 at 3:51 PM Rating: Good
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how about if we eliminate the rate down part of the system, and only allow players to be rated up. The only abuse of this system would be a positive on the player. This can still let people give props where props are due, and let good players shine. If some one does abuse the system it only has a positive looking effect on the player. In the instance a bad player farms for rate ups, it will instantly be noted by the group that he is a, a bad player, and b a liar. I usually don't remember the names of bad players unless they are particularly horrible, but I would be more likely to remember a less than mediocre player who is bad and a dishonest abuser of the system. If some of the fxi community was known to snub players because of less than perfect gear, it is easy to imagine the majority of the ffxiv community looking down upon and even hostile towards those that abuse the system and are being openly morally dishonest.
#31 Apr 29 2010 at 4:34 PM Rating: Excellent
The last thing I want my GMs wasting time on is people whining about a karma system.

*thumbs down*
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#32 Apr 29 2010 at 7:26 PM Rating: Excellent
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
desmar wrote:
I just noticed that I gained the ability to rate up and down other people's posts and it got me thinking. What if you could rate the people you group with? Like hey this guy is a great tank, I'd recommend him, but this Marauder just follows us around and doesn't do anything. This rating might show in a looking for group type interface as a way to choose people. Would a community influenced rating system work, or would there be too many opportunities for exploitation?


Too many opportunities for exploitation. Around here, karma usually takes care of itself. You'll get karma stalkers, karma trolls, rate socks, and all kinds of other little shenanigans from people who think abusing the karma system is fun times, but it doesn't really matter here because having a low or a high karma rating doesn't influence your ability to post. In-game, people would abuse the **** out of it.

"Ya, see that girl over there with the grade A player rating? Ya, it's actually a guy, but he impersonates a woman and cybers like a champion just so he'll get lots of group invites."

Nevermind the reality that a significant portion of MMO players are generally immature and more about the adolescent popularity contests and e-peen stroking. In essence, the player rating would be meaningless and everyone would know it...it would be a waste of development resources to implement it.


This is even more apparent in games where it already exists, like Maple Story.


All you have is basically people paying in-game currency for rate ups, or trading rate ups with people. They limit it to 1 rate per day and 1 rate on the same person per month and still its a meaningless system because no one uses it properly.
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#33 Apr 29 2010 at 8:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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Bad idea. No matter how complicated they make the system abuse will run rampant. Additionally, few people run parsers in FFXI, and the prevailing opinion seems to be that addons are bad in regards to FFXIV. With no real data to rank the performance of your party members, how do you determine who actually deserves that rateup? It's not like there have never been superior builds that the general populace didn't agree with. Think about how long a NIN/BLM at level 40 would have had to seek at in 2004. A public rating system discourages experimentation, a very bad precedent to set at release.
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#34 Apr 29 2010 at 9:50 PM Rating: Good
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Ranking systems like that always get abused and therefore give a very skewed view of the person. For example the rating system on Xbox Live. People get their friends list to rate them up regardless of how they act, and people rank people down just because they lost to them.

I really don't wanna see that in XIV. Let people judge for themselves, not base their opinion on an amount of stars on their profile.
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#35 May 05 2010 at 6:32 PM Rating: Good
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I'm sure we've all been in a situation, in a random pick-up party, where you needed one more party member. You do a quick search and a couple of what you're looking for show up. Other party members do the same thing and quickly /tell you "Oh you gotta get Sun~Maid, she's a great <job>" my daughter is eating raisins I don't really mean anyone in particular
Meanwhile someone else in your party sends you a /tell "Hey, whatever you do, don't pick up Sun~Maid. She's useless."

Sure a rating system would help you make the call, but who's word should you take? It's a random pick-up party. Are you going to be rated up for getting her by her and her friend? Are you going to be rated down by the one who said don't?

I think it would be largely ignored. I don't pay much attention to the ratings here. I might rate someone up for making a really great statement, or an awesome quote. But that's no indication of say how well they spell, or what kind of grammar they use.
I think another poster said it very well before (and see I didn't rate them...) it's a hard system to use if you have multiple jobs/classes. It's too many things for someone to rate you on, and may have nothing to do with the chosen job/class that you're on now. Just cause you happen to be a fantastic healer doesn't mean that you have idea skill in being a DD.
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#36 May 05 2010 at 7:11 PM Rating: Excellent
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Yogtheterrible wrote:
Quote:
I found the thread I was looking for:
http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?game=268&mid=12453719608622503#msg124560666465419613

It's a long post with the part I'm talking about at the very end of the post so I'll quote if for your lazy pleasure:

ChinookFFXIV wrote:
Another idea : The Heart system
...


Wow, you remembered my old thread made in the excitement of FFXIV announcement, I'm amazed! Thank you, I feel flattered.


On topic, I agree with people saying that this system could be abused.

However, if we twist the idea a bit, and make it that it's a personal rating that only you can see instead of the whole server, that could work well.

Let's say you had a great xp party tonight with a great tank. You don't really wanna add him to your friend list, but you want to remember his name when you seek out party members in the future. You could have the option to target the player and rate him up. His name would now have a star or another symbol next to it, both on screen, chat and on people search interface.

That way, you can easy recognize the skilled people you played with. Same goes with weak people you played with that you rated down.

If only you sees it, there's no server popularity problems involved. And it's easier to manage that a friendlist or ignore list. I personally have a very short memory, and wished I remembered all the cool and skilled players I played with.
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#37 May 05 2010 at 7:39 PM Rating: Good
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ChinookFFXIV wrote:
Yogtheterrible wrote:
Quote:
I found the thread I was looking for:
http://ffxiv.zam.com/forum.html?game=268&mid=12453719608622503#msg124560666465419613

It's a long post with the part I'm talking about at the very end of the post so I'll quote if for your lazy pleasure:

ChinookFFXIV wrote:
Another idea : The Heart system
...


Wow, you remembered my old thread made in the excitement of FFXIV announcement, I'm amazed! Thank you, I feel flattered.


On topic, I agree with people saying that this system could be abused.

However, if we twist the idea a bit, and make it that it's a personal rating that only you can see instead of the whole server, that could work well.

Let's say you had a great xp party tonight with a great tank. You don't really wanna add him to your friend list, but you want to remember his name when you seek out party members in the future. You could have the option to target the player and rate him up. His name would now have a star or another symbol next to it, both on screen, chat and on people search interface.

That way, you can easy recognize the skilled people you played with. Same goes with weak people you played with that you rated down.

If only you sees it, there's no server popularity problems involved. And it's easier to manage that a friendlist or ignore list. I personally have a very short memory, and wished I remembered all the cool and skilled players I played with.


Now that's something I could get on board with. Kind of like a friends list with expanded functionality. I like it.
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#38 May 05 2010 at 7:45 PM Rating: Decent
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What if there was place in game where users could post comments? A board near the Auction house that allowed users to post small limited sized comments regarding players performance. A player could only have 1 note posted per user per account at one time. Anyone could read these comments and take them with a grain of salt. The board could be organized alphabetically my name, and searched through my name. You click the person's name and a list of titled comments is presented. If SE keeps the server sizes relatively small like they did for FFXI there wouldn't be too many names, and you could always search for a specific person if they are looking for group.

The bad comments are usually easy to spot due to the misuse of the caps lock key. Genuine comments are usually easy to spot aswell. Either way, the comments don't hold a specific numerical value like a 'fame' system, but it could be useful nonetheless. Plus it gives a small hang-out place for people that are looking for guildleve groups.

Just a thought, but it seemed like it would go along with the whole guileve system, and it seemed cool because it wasn't uncommon to see people hanging around a pub in most Final Fantasy games. Just a suggestion though, it's unlikely to be in the game anyways.
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#39 May 05 2010 at 10:10 PM Rating: Default
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There are obviously pros (and stronger cons) for implementing a rating system.

But let's just set that aside and think about how it would work.

First of all, it's probably too much effort to implement by SE at this point in game development, therefore if it exists at all, it will probably be a 3rd party app.

Second, what if you made rating only possible after half an hour of partying with someone, and it required a majority decision to approve the rating? It would be an entirely optional thing you could do, and if you didn't want to vote, you could abstain. Of course, such a system would still be open to abuse (e.g. good old MMORPG melodrama).

I think the better way is for the game to include, in addition to friend lists and blacklists, another list where you could record your experiencees of players you've come across (e.g. Player X was awesome as tank, I would invite her again, or Player Z was terrible as a support role, player Y is up to the same mission progression as I am etc)...this list would not be available to anyone else, but could help you track people you come across with more detail (kind of like your personal live journal).

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#40 May 06 2010 at 3:40 AM Rating: Good
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What about just being able to "Rate Up" instead of both?

It wouldnt be that difficult to implement measures to thwart abuse.
For instance the same person cant Rate you up twice, etc etc.

In the end the only way to get the highest possible rating would honestly mean that every person on your server would have to have rated you Up.
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#41 May 06 2010 at 8:32 AM Rating: Good
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^ Is a good suggestion, but again people would trample all over that system as well. I can see it now, sitting in town, watching the chatlog; SHOUT: Paying 100gil to rate me up! Totally ruining the validity.

Give some people a system that's productive, fun, and useful.. and they abuse it to the point of uselessness.. :(
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