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#152 May 16 2010 at 7:47 PM Rating: Good
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And I completely agree with the above comment that if people are paying monthly so they can play a game 4-8 hours a week, they better be well-off or else they are just retarded. MMO's being popular or not, they should still target the group of people that are actually gong to PLAY them seeing as it is THOSE people who will be spending their time either enjoying it or hating it and quitting eventually. MMO's are NOT made for someone who is working two jobs, has a wife/husband and 5 kids, is in debt thanks to credit cards, can't figure out how to use a simple UI, and are against a death penalty


I'm going to respectfully disagree. I'm not well-off or retarded, I am married with 2 (three any day now) children, and a full time job that more weeks than others requires more than 40 hours a week. I played FFXI anywhere from 5-10 hours a week, and the only thing that ever got on my nerves was my lack of gil. I also realized that was my problem and my fault because of my choice to party or quest rather than farm or craft.

My point, is that while a lot of people were able to do a lot more in game than I was able to faster because they played more (in some cases A LOT more) I never felt like I got the short end. I got out of FFXI what I put into it. When I logged in I had a goal, sure sometimes I got sidetracked due to helping people or a good looking party invite. But again, that was my choice. I LOVE the idea that the same thing will be easier to do in FFXIV, I'm also happy about the common sense idea that those who dedicate more time to the game will get more out of it. That's the way it should be.

I'm for a death penalty, I've posted that on this same topic. I'm not for an over the top negation of the last two hours of my time that I've just spent playing just because of someone's (even my own) error in judgment.
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#153 May 16 2010 at 8:00 PM Rating: Decent
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And I completely agree with the above comment that if people are paying monthly so they can play a game 4-8 hours a week, they better be well-off or else they are just retarded.

No... they're incredibly intelligent. I don't play games to waste time; I play games to have fun. Pretty much everyone I know plays for the same reason. I can waste my own time for free.

If you have two nearly identical games, one where you can achieve "goal x" in 4 hours and one where you achieve "goal x" in 8 hours because every time you die you are set back, then the first game is strictly better.

It's not about playtime, it's about content. Making me relevel or stand around until a debuff wears off as part of a death penalty isn't content, it's wasting my time. When you can get the same amount of content in less time, the game is better.

The reason MMORPGs force you to do so much repetitive bullshiz is to hide their lack of content. We've come to accept most of the repetitiveness because MMORPGs offer us something we like in return such as persistent characters and gains, community, and more. However, in no way should we encourage more watering down, time wasting, filler content. It should be something we begrudgingly accept, not cheer and beg for.
#154 May 16 2010 at 8:05 PM Rating: Excellent
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derail

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I am married with 2 (three any day now) children,

:3 Congratulations

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#155 May 16 2010 at 8:20 PM Rating: Decent
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:

Wada made it pretty clear what his priorities are. I don't necessarily agree with that approach, but there has been plenty of other explicit information released by the devs that indicate they aren't aiming for the same niche FFXI appealled to.

And I'm simply saying people shouldn't be begging and pleading for money-hungry corporate decisions. Nor did I think they were aiming for the same "niche" FFXI "appealed" to.

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Compared to what? People who go to a movie once/month? People who dine out once/month? I dunno...$15 for 4-8 hours of entertainment is pretty cheap these days...


Actually, yeah. If you can't afford it, and you do it anyway, you're an idiot. End of story. That's why there are articles all over the internet about how MMO's should be banned because people are neglecting their kids to the point of them starving to death. Maybe you consider $15 a month for 4-8 hours of fun cheap but with all of the other options I have to have fun that don't cost anything or as much (when those months start to add up, because who is going to purchase a game and only play for one month intentionally) I don't agree with you.

Also, it seems that I wasn't coming off as clear as I had hoped. ReiThor, give yourself a pat on the back or something to get it all out of your system. I wasn't trying to say that people who are married and have kids and a job can't play MMO's, I was making the distinction between people who need to learn their priorities and people who already have them in order and which people SE should be listening to. A death penalty is not a way to hide lack of content. It's called dying. Since the dawn of time dying has affected players in videogames and I don't understand how people are saying that because "they're too busy" there shouldn't be one. If you're too busy for a death penalty, you're probably too busy for a videogame. Remember back when there was such thing as "GAME OVER"? Or when there was no such thing as "SAVE PROGRESS"? My father has been an avid gamer for as far back as I can remember (he's in his late 40's now) and despite having a wife, 3 kids, and a 45 hour a week job he never once ******* about all of the stuff I see 'adults' whining about on this board. Everyone's issue here seems to be time. So let's say we cut out the death penalty and just make the game more challenging in the real sense of the word (use your imaginations). Let's say FFXIV is adapted universally to what is considered "challenging" for the sake of arguments. Everyone would complain about that too. I am waiting for one of the gripers to stand up and admit they are lazy and want things handed to them without having to develop any "skill" or whatever you want to call it. If you have fun playing the game, then it shouldn't matter how much time you "have" to put into it in order to get something done. As long as the content is good and leveling is fun, what is wrong with a death penalty?
#156 May 16 2010 at 8:37 PM Rating: Decent
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Bluefirefly wrote:
If you have fun playing the game, then it shouldn't matter how much time you "have" to put into it in order to get something done. As long as the content is good and leveling is fun, what is wrong with a death penalty?

Because a poorly designed penalty can only dilute a game. When you stand in line for a ride at an amusement park, would you be annoyed if someone cut in front of you? Why does it matter how long you "have" to wait to ride the ride. As long as the ride is fun, what is wrong with waiting twice as long for no reason?

Edited, May 16th 2010 9:38pm by Allegory
#157 May 16 2010 at 8:49 PM Rating: Good
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:3 Congratulations


Thanks Zemzelette!


Bluefirefly, I'm going to try my best to not get into a typical back and forth argument with you about something that we both seem to agree to a point on. I'm not sure if you read my whole post or you got bored when I started talking about my own life's details.
Maybe I'm an "old-school" gamer or being 28 just makes me an old gamer, but I remember back when games had a true game over. I remember the password "save" system. I remember having to actually insert another quarter to keep playing. Times have changed, and games have changed right along with them.
I said that there should be a death penalty. I think it would suck if you lose all your HP fall down and a light from above instantly gives you back all your energy and you keep moving right along doing whatever you were in the middle of when you died. "Gee, I don't wanna stand here and heal for 3 mins, I'll go fight that huge walking mountain that will one shot me to instantly get all my HP back" is a stupid idea. But the penalty shouldn't be so severe that a single death sends you "back to start." Even Pac-Man started you off with 3 lives.
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The more I train, the harder I get. The harder I get, the more lethal I am. The more lethal I am, the fewer opponents. The fewer opponents, the less to lose. The less to lose, the more I let up. The more I let up, the more room for mistakes. The more room for mistakes, the more I train.

#158 May 16 2010 at 8:51 PM Rating: Good
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Bluefirefly wrote:
That's why there are articles all over the internet about how MMO's should be banned because people are neglecting their kids to the point of them starving to death.


Well, that's quite an exception fallacy, though.

To the rest of what you said, I'm just going to move my post from the end of page 3 over here, because I suspect that it would go unnoticed otherwise. It was addressed to Aurelius' comment about death penalties. Blue, I agree with you on a certain level; it's all about balance. An achievement gained without any effort feels cheap, but if the effort required is too great, it becomes arduous and tiresome.

The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
My experience is that the people insisting that penalties should be severe and unforgiving just argue from that point of view because they think it makes them badass.


While I don't doubt that such people exist, I do think that you're dismissing a more legitimate reason for severe death penalties, one which isn't sadistic or masochistic. I'll preface my explanation by saying that I don't believe that FFXIV is the appropriate medium for such penalties, however. To me, FFXI felt like a more casual game than my personal benchmark for "hardcore" gameplay, which would be EVE. I'm happy with that though, and I'm hoping that FFXIV continues or expands on this trend.

I think that another poster mentioned it, but there is a very real adrenaline surge that can come with risks. Aurelius, you may not experience it, but I can assure you both that it exists, and that it is compounded as you risk more. In EVE, this risk came in the form of losing your expensive ship, its expensive fittings, and its expensive cargo. Nothing in that game is permanent...even the biggest, most badass ships get blown up (provided you're doing more with it then just keeping it in the closet to look at occasionally). Even the strongest alliances and corporations (EVE's guilds) fold, and often by very unsavory means. You get used to the idea of losing everything quick, or you quit.

And I loved it. I'll admit that it could be tough...losing stuff that you worked for months to get, in a matter of seconds. But it could also be amazing when you reaped the benefits of that risk/reward system, or when you skirted death by just a few degrees. The sweet is never so sweet without the sour, so to speak.

The best analogy I can make is to the the adrenaline surge that I get when I pass a speed trap, and I'm going over the speed limit. I'd get that same feeling when I was running with some expensive cargo, and suddenly a pirate would pop up on radar. "Did he see me? He did! sh*t! Run run run!!" (not to imply that I run from the cops, but you get the idea) If you escaped that situation, you'd actually have to take a few minutes to recuperate. A lot of situations in EVE left my heart beating rapid-fire, no exaggeration. It felt great though...experiencing that rush of emotions: trying to make quick decisions in spite of desperation and panic, and ultimately feeling joy at a loss averted by cunning, preparation, or twitch skills.

Basically, I think that bumping up the risk makes it so that the spread of possible emotion you can feel is wider. The highs are higher, but the lows are also much lower. I bet that EVE had a massive number of rage quits, but I'd also wager that it's had a comparable share of resubs from those jonesing for that adrenaline kick.

Like I said though, I don't really wish that for FFXIV. I kind of like the idea of a more casual game...personally, I didn't go to FFXI for anything "hardcore". I'm hoping that it'll satisfy my need for a relaxing, social experience, not my need for intensity and adrenaline. I've got plenty of other games for the latter at the moment.

Edited, May 16th 2010 9:52pm by Eske
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#159 May 16 2010 at 9:27 PM Rating: Good
Eske wrote:
Essay about the merits of EVE, then talking about how I don't want FFXIV to be anything like it.
Not to dump on you, but imo you can get a decent adrenaline rush from any big battle just based on what will not get if you fail. Not getting your Bazooka +1 if you fail is bad enough, losing massive amounts of exp is just salt on the wounds.
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#160 May 16 2010 at 10:09 PM Rating: Good
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Lubriderm the Hand wrote:
Eske wrote:
Essay about the merits of EVE, then talking about how I don't want FFXIV to be anything like it.
Not to dump on you, but imo you can get a decent adrenaline rush from any big battle just based on what will not get if you fail. Not getting your Bazooka +1 if you fail is bad enough, losing massive amounts of exp is just salt on the wounds.


Terse summaries aside, no, I don't believe they are the same. I've experienced both enough that I feel comfortable saying that. The aspect of possession is the difference. Losing something that I worked for a long time to earn, or that I've owned for a long time, is not the same as not getting something for the first time. At least, it isn't to me. But I'll grant that it's completely conceivable that it's different for you though.

But again, I don't believe in experience loss in FFXIV, anyway. The game's context is completely different from that of something like EVE. IMO, it's a "punishment" that doesn't suit the rest of the game's framework, making it an arbitrary waste of time.

Edited, May 17th 2010 12:15am by Eske
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#161 May 16 2010 at 10:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Has anyone thought about a scaling death penalty system? One that could get worse with consecutive deaths, but eventually resets with time and/or leveling?

For example, the 1st death in the span of an hour or two could be nothing, the 2nd some durability loss, the 3rd-nth could be stacking XP debt along with more durability loss. I feel that particular mix could provide a balance of you can try to kill that giant ogre with 6 arms wielding trees as maces and rooftops as a shield and not being screwed from a guy who just wants to mess with your group by making you have ludicrous death penalties.

Or maybe an alternative system that is based on XP debt but you can lose XP if your debt becomes to high and you could use XP you have to pay off the debt faster if you wanted to.

Edit to clarify that these are two separate ideas and to tidy up the second idea a bit

Edited, May 17th 2010 10:41pm by Alpinestars
#162 May 16 2010 at 10:22 PM Rating: Good
How about a 'hardcore' server? Where you are allowed x amount of deaths before you are just dead?
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#163 May 16 2010 at 10:44 PM Rating: Default
Eske wrote:

While I don't doubt that such people exist, I do think that you're dismissing a more legitimate reason for severe death penalties, one which isn't sadistic or masochistic. I'll preface my explanation by saying that I don't believe that FFXIV is the appropriate medium for such penalties, however. To me, FFXI felt like a more casual game than my personal benchmark for "hardcore" gameplay, which would be EVE. I'm happy with that though, and I'm hoping that FFXIV continues or expands on this trend.


If the risk of loss adds to your the entertainment value for you, that's great. I have no issue with that. What I have issue with is the people who come here and start flailing about with accussations that I want an easy game or that I want everything handed to me because I simply don't have the time to **** around with stupid penalties anymore. It's like the great ZAM revolving door...one asshat shows themselves the door and the next one saunters in on a "i r hardcorez u r teh lame" tirade. This isn't the place for it anymore. The more we learn about the game, the less room for vehemence in arguing things that are now moot.
#164 May 16 2010 at 10:51 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
Eske wrote:

While I don't doubt that such people exist, I do think that you're dismissing a more legitimate reason for severe death penalties, one which isn't sadistic or masochistic. I'll preface my explanation by saying that I don't believe that FFXIV is the appropriate medium for such penalties, however. To me, FFXI felt like a more casual game than my personal benchmark for "hardcore" gameplay, which would be EVE. I'm happy with that though, and I'm hoping that FFXIV continues or expands on this trend.


If the risk of loss adds to your the entertainment value for you, that's great. I have no issue with that. What I have issue with is the people who come here and start flailing about with accussations that I want an easy game or that I want everything handed to me because I simply don't have the time to @#%^ around with stupid penalties anymore. It's like the great ZAM revolving door...one asshat shows themselves the door and the next one saunters in on a "i r hardcorez u r teh lame" tirade. This isn't the place for it anymore. The more we learn about the game, the less room for vehemence in arguing things that are now moot.


Fair enough. I've seen enough "This isn't WoW lolz, casual = weak" posts to know where you're coming from. Just wanted to point out that the "hardcore" (and I'm using this term ironically) style has its merits on occasion.

Edited, May 17th 2010 12:52am by Eske
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#165 May 17 2010 at 10:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Alpinestars wrote:
Has anyone thought about a scaling death penalty system? One that could get worse with consecutive deaths, but eventually resets with time and/or leveling?

I know it was done in Lotro and has been done in some other games. Not quite like you describe (the type category of penalty never changed from something like armor loss to exp loss), what happened is that the same debuff got even worse. If you suffered 10% max hp loss from rez sickness you now suffered 20% max hp loss from rez sickness. You just ended up waiting it out if an activity was remotely dangerous.

I think a penalty that keep changing what it does or tries to do do many things at once would be confusing to many players, fairly nonsensical, and look shoddily designed. "So when I die I get armor durability loss, exp loss, exp debt, a debuff, have to do a corpse run, and then spin in a circle three times?"

Edited, May 17th 2010 11:11am by Allegory
#166 May 17 2010 at 11:28 AM Rating: Decent
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Allegory wrote:
Bluefirefly wrote:
If you have fun playing the game, then it shouldn't matter how much time you "have" to put into it in order to get something done. As long as the content is good and leveling is fun, what is wrong with a death penalty?

Because a poorly designed penalty can only dilute a game. When you stand in line for a ride at an amusement park, would you be annoyed if someone cut in front of you? Why does it matter how long you "have" to wait to ride the ride. As long as the ride is fun, what is wrong with waiting twice as long for no reason?


Wow, Allegory. You really have a tendency to go for the ankles, don't you? Please stop trying to infer information from my posts to create completely obvious arguments I'm not addressing. I didn't say anything about waiting. Your analogy is actually pretty pointless because there is a huge difference when it comes to WAITING for a ride and actually BEING ON the ride, which is what I was trying to say. To match your analogy more closely with mine: if you have fun while being on the ride, and the ride is never 100% exactly the same, what's wrong with going around the "loop" another time or taking a slight detour? And I am not arguing in favor of a poorly designed death penalty, so instead of making pointless back-and-forth comments (I have read this entire thread but I forget if you have already done this) why don't you give a suggestion of a "not poorly designed death penalty" or something useful so you won't be diluting the thread. I'm not saying there should be a game over. I'm saying those who are arguing for NO death penalty really have no good arguments that don't make them sound old and haggard.

ReiThor, I did read your entire post. My problem was that, agreeing with me or not, you pulled my argument off on a tangent I wasn't going for and turned it into something I didn't want to discuss to make a point I really wasn't addressing. That was my fault for not making myself clear enough.
#167 May 17 2010 at 12:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Bluefirefly wrote:
I didn't say anything about waiting.

That's what a death penalty is. When you force someone to lose exp, take a stats penalty, or warp back to their starting point then you are setting them back in their goals. You have increased the time it takes them to level, kill a boss, or just mine some fish.
Bluefirefly wrote:
To match your analogy more closely with mine: if you have fun while being on the ride, and the ride is never 100% exactly the same, what's wrong with going around the "loop" another time or taking a slight detour?

No, my analogy is more accurate. When you die in an MMORPG you aren't going around the loop another time. Going around the loop another time is fun; dying in an MMORPG generally isn't fun. It's a wait. Dying doesn't give you the chance to do something fun again in a MMORPG; it stops you from doing what you want to do. Whether you choose to think of that wait as being someone cutting in line or whether you want to think of that as the operator stopping the ride midway so he can take a smoke break is up to you.
Bluefirefly wrote:
I'm saying those who are arguing for NO death penalty really have no good arguments that don't make them sound old and haggard.

No one here is arguing for no death penalty. You have no idea what it is the people you oppose are supporting.
#168 May 17 2010 at 12:26 PM Rating: Decent
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Allegory wrote:
That's what a death penalty is. When you force someone to lose exp, take a stats penalty, or warp back to their starting point then you are setting them back in their goals. You have increased the time it takes them to level, kill a boss, or just mine some fish.

I don't know about you, Allegory, but dying in FFXI never stopped me from playing the game. Dying in AoC never stopped me from playing the game. Dying in WoW also never stopped me playing the game. While you are playing the game, you are not waiting. So, basically, you are wrong. Not everyone only plays the game to level or kill a boss, and dying doesn't necessarily stop you from "mining or fishing" either. A death penalty is a penalty for dying, which is generally supposed to be a bad thing, don't you think?


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No, my analogy is more accurate. When you die in an MMORPG you aren't going around the loop another time. Going around the loop another time is fun; dying in an MMORPG generally isn't fun. It's a wait. Dying doesn't give you the chance to do something fun again in a MMORPG; it stops you from doing what you want to do. Whether you choose to think of that wait as being someone cutting in line or whether you want to think of that as the operator stopping the ride midway so he can take a smoke break is up to you.

No, your analogy is not more accurate, but if you want to act like a 5-year-old and try to tell me what I'm saying, be my guest despite how wrong you are. It sounds to me like you're implying everyone should be invincible since your general argument is against dying. Your analogy is flat out not what I am saying, but just because you don't understand it doesn't mean others don't.

Quote:

No one here is arguing for no death penalty. You have no idea what it is the people you oppose are supporting.

I consider those who are arguing against every single suggested death penalty and not contributing any ideas of their own as arguing for no death penalty. And if I have no idea what it is you are supporting, that's really 100% your fault, not mine, for once again you ave failed to do anything other than water down the thread by not head-on answering what I said and instead attacking at the ankles on concepts of opinion without any real back-up evidence.
#169 May 17 2010 at 1:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Bluefirefly wrote:
I don't know about you, Allegory, but dying in FFXI never stopped me from playing the game.


Raise sickness pretty much does this.

I agree with you that an exp loss itself is not akin to waiting in a line. Really, it's more like making you repeat part of the ride again. But the exp grind in FFXI was never quite as much fun as an amusement park ride for me, so repeating such parts became tedious. Repeating an amusement park ride is fun, repeating the grind for the last 2,000 exp that you had already earned, less so. And as you guys have noted, there's another distinction between FFXI and a ride: in FFXI, you have goals that you reach by completing the journey. Being pushed back from attaining that goal by death penalties keeps you from reaching that enjoyable part, as Allegory is trying to suggest with the analogy.
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#170 May 17 2010 at 3:27 PM Rating: Default
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Eske wrote:

Raise sickness pretty much does this.

I agree with you that an exp loss itself is not akin to waiting in a line. Really, it's more like making you repeat part of the ride again. But the exp grind in FFXI was never quite as much fun as an amusement park ride for me, so repeating such parts became tedious. Repeating an amusement park ride is fun, repeating the grind for the last 2,000 exp that you had already earned, less so. And as you guys have noted, there's another distinction between FFXI and a ride: in FFXI, you have goals that you reach by completing the journey. Being pushed back from attaining that goal by death penalties keeps you from reaching that enjoyable part, as Allegory is trying to suggest with the analogy.

That's great that you have an opinion on FFXI and it's gameplay, but no where did I say I wanted FFXIV to be the same. This is also why I used more than just FFXI as an example of games I have played, died in, and experienced the different penalties. And I actually do consider it to be exactly the same as an amusement park ride because you always have the goal to move on to another ride. That doesn't mean I wouldn't want to take the same ride because it bores me. And you don't have to repeat part of the ride again. There are multiple ways to gain experience in FFXI whether it be with a different party, through quests, etc. so likening it to the same experience over and over is an exaggeration used to prove a point that I don't necessarily disagree with.

You're wrong in likening the "achieving the goal" part as the only enjoyable part. There have been plenty of people posting on these boards that believe the journey was the best part. Stop being so over-dramatic. It makes sense to have obstacles in the way of your goals. If dying isn't an obstacle, then what is, exactly?
#171 May 17 2010 at 3:53 PM Rating: Decent
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It's not about diluting the game, it's about generating stake in what's ultimate an aesthetically pleasing compilation of 1's and 0's.

One of the most highly held qualities of any virtual world is "immersiveness". In layman's terms, the amount the user feels connected to the game environment, rather than sitting in a computer chair/on a couch/a Cloud adorned beanbag chair. Death of your proxy self, ie your character, is typically not the best news for the immersed player. However, if this death carries no real consequences, the player becomes quickly aware that they are just staring at a screen again, and feels detached from, Eorzea, in this case.

Which is why in mainly cheap/poorly made games, death carries no real weight, which gives players an incentive to mindlessly run around ******* with the environment, attempting to find glitches, subsequently getting bored and logging off several minutes later.

The most immersive solution to this problem would be to actually kill the user when your character died, but since this is not practical nor "humane", as some softies would label it, some sort of penalty has to be implemented. Objectives within games are augmented with a sense of importance when a failure to complete them carries real negative consequences.

If the only negative consequence is a debuff that takes you out of commission for a couple minutes, that tab of Redtube.com you have open becomes increasingly tempting, and Jenna Jameson might wind up commanding more respect than your dying party members. Because if they/you/everyone die(s), who cares, right? It's only a minor setback, but this episode of BangBus is not going to watch itself.
#172 May 17 2010 at 4:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Bluefirefly wrote:
That's great that you have an opinion on FFXI and it's gameplay, but no where did I say I wanted FFXIV to be the same. This is also why I used more than just FFXI as an example of games I have played, died in, and experienced the different penalties. And I actually do consider it to be exactly the same as an amusement park ride because you always have the goal to move on to another ride. That doesn't mean I wouldn't want to take the same ride because it bores me. And you don't have to repeat part of the ride again. There are multiple ways to gain experience in FFXI whether it be with a different party, through quests, etc. so likening it to the same experience over and over is an exaggeration used to prove a point that I don't necessarily disagree with.


I don't think anyone would argue that the goal of an amusement park ride is the next ride. "Moving on to the next ride" is not analogous to getting a shiny new item after a quest, or leveling up. If it's analogous to anything, it'd be to moving on the next quest, or going for your next level. But I think the analogy is just confusing the issue now. And when I played FFXI, the only way to gain experience was from grinding, so that's why I used that as my example. I wasn't aware that this had changed. It wasn't some sort of exaggeration attempt, at any rate.

Bluefirefly wrote:
You're wrong in likening the "achieving the goal" part as the only enjoyable part. There have been plenty of people posting on these boards that believe the journey was the best part. Stop being so over-dramatic. It makes sense to have obstacles in the way of your goals. If dying isn't an obstacle, then what is, exactly?


Except I didn't say that. I bolded the part above, where you made an incorrect addition to my point that changes it quite a bit.

Now, I don't know if you're referring specifically to me when you say "Stop being so over-dramatic" (which would be really misplaced)...but I don't really appreciate it anyway. Instead, why don't you stop putting words in my mouth?

And here I was trying to agree with you...sheesh.

Edited, May 17th 2010 6:57pm by Eske

Edited, May 17th 2010 7:05pm by Eske
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#173Bluefirefly, Posted: May 17 2010 at 5:16 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Nothing you said in the post I quoted remotely agreed with me, not that it matters. Instead of blaming me for "putting words in your mouth" why don't you stop being a hypocrite and equating your opinions with facts. Thanks <3
#174 May 17 2010 at 6:08 PM Rating: Good
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Bluefirefly wrote:
Eske wrote:

I don't think anyone would argue that the goal of an amusement park ride is the next ride.

I just did.


Suffice to say I don't agree with that, then.

Bluefirefly wrote:
Nothing you said in the post I quoted remotely agreed with me, not that it matters. Instead of blaming me for "putting words in your mouth" why don't you stop being a hypocrite and equating your opinions with facts. Thanks <3


Obviously my stance on the issue isn't limited to a single post. If you read my first post in the thread (up at the top of this page) you'll find that I agree with you to the effect that death penalties have merits. I wrote a fair bit about why, too. I also mentioned in the post you first referenced that I partially agreed with your assessment of Allegory's analogy. I saw errors in both of your takes on the analogy and commented as such.

Bluefirefly wrote:
Maybe you should also blame your poor use of the analogy which, I completely agree, has done nothing but confuse the issue. I simply interpreted your use of the analogy as you saying the ride is completing a goal, whereas I look at it as the journey itself (another reason I don't see how you at all were agreeing with me, because you weren't).


Your "interpretation" was incorrect, as evidenced by the inclusion of the word "only", which completely changes the meaning of my words.

Bluefirefly wrote:
I still have yet to see anyone in this recent argument offer up their idea of a "fair" death penalty. I'm really tired of reading the same "FFXI overdid the death penalty" post over and over. If anyone actually read my earlier posts (although it seems like people are just jumping into this thread without even skimming) I never once said I wanted the same death penalty from FFXI in FFXIV. Instead of complaining about death penalties that don't suit you (which is all people seem to be doing), give a constructive opinion.


This is the problem with you, Bluefirefly. You get all wound up arguing your case, and then you start lashing out randomly. You forget which poster your addressing, you transfer one poster's argument to another, and all the while escalating things from a spirited debate to tossing insults.

I don't have an issue with FFXI's death penalty. I haven't once suggested that you want the same death penalty from FFXI in FFXIV. You're conflating my presence in this thread with that of Aurelius, or Allegory, or any of the other posters you were arguing with at the onset of the debate. The post that you first took issue to was me trying to sort out the analogy that you and Allegory were debating. I was with you on some aspects, with Allegory on others. You got all huffy about it, made some odd inferences from my points, changed my wording, and then went after me for it.

Me, I think there are games where even severe implementations of death penalties are of benefit to the game. I think we're in agreement on that. I liked EVE's harsh one, FFXI's seemed fair, and if FFXIV is more casual than FFXI, which it's shaping up to be, then I think the death penalty should be a little more casual as well, to suit the medium. That's my stance. Maybe make it so that you can't delevel. That'd be a sufficient change in my eyes, but I'll stress that it's just my opinion.

Edited, May 17th 2010 8:09pm by Eske
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#175 May 17 2010 at 6:37 PM Rating: Default
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Eske wrote:
Obviously my stance on the issue isn't limited to a single post. If you read my first post in the thread (up at the top of this page) you'll find that I agree with you to the effect that death penalties have merits. I wrote a fair bit about why, too. I also mentioned in the post you first referenced that I partially agreed with your assessment of Allegory's analogy. I saw errors in both of your takes on the analogy and commented as such.

While I'm sure we both appreciate feedback in most cases, it seems you're just looking for opportunities to put in your two-cents, despite possibly derailing a thread (or moreso than it already is).

Quote:
Your "interpretation" was incorrect, as evidenced by the inclusion of the word "only", which completely changes the meaning of my words.

Which is why I was explaining myself. DUH.

Quote:
This is the problem with you, Bluefirefly. You get all wound up arguing your case, and then you start lashing out randomly. You forget which poster your addressing, you transfer one poster's argument to another, and all the while escalating things from a spirited debate to tossing insults.

I don't have an issue with FFXI's death penalty. I haven't once suggested that you want the same death penalty from FFXI in FFXIV. You're conflating my presence in this thread with that of Aurelius, or Allegory, or any of the other posters you were arguing with at the onset of the debate. The post that you first took issue to was me trying to sort out the analogy that you and Allegory were debating. I was with you on some aspects, with Allegory on others. You got all huffy about it, made some odd inferences from my points, changed my wording, and then went after me for it.


Dear Eske,

I am so terribly sorry you mistook my bluntness for me "getting all huffy." While indeed on occasion I tend to get fired up over debates, I in no way was slightly moved by anything in this thread. Especially not by any of your posts, trust me. I also haven't really tossed any insults directly at anyone, but from this post I can see how ridiculously overly sensitive you are being. I'll try to be more aware of that sensitivity in the future. You're right, I'm used to dealing with people with a bit more experience such as Aurelius, which is why we know not to take things so personally. I actually haven't forgotten what "poster" I'm addressing because all of my statements have been general. If I transfer an argument, it is only so it doesn't get derailed by someone who cuts and pastes his arguments so he won't be ignored, because God forbid people don't care what you have to say. If you're not addressing my arguments, why don't you stop quoting me and addressing me directly since you're so offended by my manner of posting? If you really want to seem like the better person, why are you even taking this up with me in a thread? Everyone knows anyone with any real sense of morality would have just PM'ed me about it. Like Allegory said in another post, it seems people just want to be heard despite how inappropriate the venue may be.
#176 May 17 2010 at 7:34 PM Rating: Good
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Bluefirefly wrote:
While I'm sure we both appreciate feedback in most cases, it seems you're just looking for opportunities to put in your two-cents, despite possibly derailing a thread (or moreso than it already is).


This is an internet forum. We're all looking for opportunities to put our two cents in. And examining an analogy about death penalties in a thread called "Happy About Death Penalty" isn't really derailing it.

Bluefirefly wrote:
Which is why I was explaining myself. DUH.


I called out your error, and you gave a rambling explanation that in no way acknowledged an error on your part. So I reiterated your error.

Bluefirefly wrote:
Dear Eske,

I am so terribly sorry you mistook my bluntness for me "getting all huffy." While indeed on occasion I tend to get fired up over debates, I in no way was slightly moved by anything in this thread. Especially not by any of your posts, trust me. I also haven't really tossed any insults directly at anyone, but from this post I can see how ridiculously overly sensitive you are being. I'll try to be more aware of that sensitivity in the future. You're right, I'm used to dealing with people with a bit more experience such as Aurelius, which is why we know not to take things so personally. I actually haven't forgotten what "poster" I'm addressing because all of my statements have been general. If I transfer an argument, it is only so it doesn't get derailed by someone who cuts and pastes his arguments so he won't be ignored, because God forbid people don't care what you have to say. If you're not addressing my arguments, why don't you stop quoting me and addressing me directly since you're so offended by my manner of posting? If you really want to seem like the better person, why are you even taking this up with me in a thread? Everyone knows anyone with any real sense of morality would have just PM'ed me about it. Like Allegory said in another post, it seems people just want to be heard despite how inappropriate the venue may be.


You might rationalize it as "bluntness", but the language you use is frequently snide or sarcastic. There are a fair share of examples in this paragraph, actually. And sorry to pick nits, but I've seen plenty of threads where you call people "retards" for doing nothing more than disagree with you. You say I'm overly sensitive, but I think you're just attacking me to keep from having to do some self-analysis.

Of course I want people to read what I post. That's the point of posting. Am I supposed to be defensive about that? And I'm not going to PM you about this. Take that as an indication that I don't care if I seem like the better person if you want, it's no skin off my back. I don't care much about derailing the thread (otherwise I wouldn't write this post)...it'll either get back on track, or people will carry on the conversation alongside this derail, or a mod will nuke our posts, or they'll just have the whole debate again in a month when this topic inevitably gets re-posted. Either way, there's no harm done, so no, I'm not really concerned. If you're concerned about further derailing, then feel free to use PM's, that's fine.

If you don't like people publicly calling you out for your sh*tty attitude, then either fix it, or do a better job of justifying it. But I'm not holding my breath for the latter.

Edited, May 17th 2010 9:39pm by Eske

Edited, May 17th 2010 9:41pm by Eske
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#177 May 17 2010 at 7:49 PM Rating: Default
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Eske wrote:
This is an internet forum. We're all looking for opportunities to put our two cents in. And examining an analogy about death penalties in a thread called "Happy About Death Penalty" isn't really derailing it.

Some of us more than others, apparently.

Quote:
I called out your error, and you gave a rambling explanation that in no way acknowledged an error on your part. So I reiterated your error.

If you're too ignorant to realize the explanation in my last post without me having to spell it out for you, that's your own problem. I'll make sure to start pointing out your every error as well, you know, since you're so perfect.

Quote:
You might rationalize it as "bluntness", but the language you use is frequently snide or sarcastic. There are a fair share of examples in this paragraph, actually. And sorry to pick nits, but I've seen plenty of threads where you call people "retards" for doing little more than disagreeing with you. You say I'm overly sensitive, but I think you're just attacking me to keep from having to do some real self-analysis.

Of course I want people to read what I post. That's the point of posting. Am I supposed to be defensive about that? And I'm not going to PM you about this. Take that as an indication that I don't care if I seem like the better person if you want, it's no skin off my back. I don't care much about derailing the thread (otherwise I wouldn't write this post)...it'll either get back on track, or people will carry on the conversation alongside this derail, or they'll just have the whole debate again in a month when this topic inevitably gets re-posted. Either way, there's no harm done, so no, I'm not really concerned. If you're concerned about further derailing, then feel to use PM's, that's fine.

If you don't like people publicly calling you out for your sh*tty attitude, then either fix it, or do a better job of justifying it. But I'm not holding my breath for the latter.


Eske, grow up, seriously, and stop Alla-stalking me or whatever it is you're doing that makes you think you know so much about me. Just because you think you can infer attitude from a post doesn't make you right. What you may consider to sound sarcastic, I might think sounds perfectly fine. I feel bad for you that you honestly think the world is out to get you when in reality no one cares enough to point out any of your annoying flaws, I'm sure. I have also seen arguments between you and others where people tell you to stop being such a baby. I believe I've also only used the word "******" directed towards one person on this board, and it was for a LOT more than disagreeing with me, but nice try. If you can actually find other examples, then maybe you can bring that into the argument. If not, stop trying to falsely berate me to make your sad self look cool. Unless you're actually going to pin something on me, take your whiny posts else-where. Why would I ever do any self analysis over something you've said? Get over yourself. Maybe people don't want to read what you have to post when it comes to you getting into petty fights with other people because you think you can. You're the one with the ****** attitude, in my opinion. And probably justly so. If I had to imagine your real-life self, there probably isn't much of anything, which is why you try to dominate on a message board. You don't know me and really can't infer anything about me from my posts other than what you WANT to infer. Excuse me for expecting you to actually contribute, I'll be sure to lower my expectations for you in the future.
#178 May 17 2010 at 7:58 PM Rating: Good
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I think those wild and random grade-school insults do quite enough to prove my point.
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#179Bluefirefly, Posted: May 17 2010 at 8:09 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I don't think my insults are any more wild and random than yours :) Not to mention you didn't even address the majority of my argument from a couple posts ago. As long as you can sleep at night, Eske, that's really all that matters to me. <3
#180 May 18 2010 at 8:53 AM Rating: Good
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Every major mmo in the past 5-6 years has had a death penalty or some sort of "durability" hit, whether it be at a mender or a "soul heal". There really does need to be some sort of loss for death, small exp debt (without de-leveling) and small cost to repair/heal seems to be the most common and most accepted by the playerbase.
#181 May 18 2010 at 10:03 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
There really does need to be some sort of loss for death, small exp debt (without de-leveling) and small cost to repair/heal seems to be the most common and most accepted by the playerbase.


That's what I said in the middle of page 3. Of course have the system be adjusted as needed. Should there be worse damage done to your armor after each death? Maybe after your first death your helmet sufferes a %5 wear, but if you die again its %12?

Sure it's still basically a gil penalty, but there would be away around it if party members can repair armor for you.

In the end the answer is "wait & see" when the game comes out. Hopefully it's something most people will think is fair.
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#182 May 18 2010 at 11:09 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I don't think anyone would argue that the goal of an amusement park ride is the next ride.

I just did.


Well, nothing you really have to say matters then.

Who seriously thinks the goal at a theme park is the time spent BETWEEN attractions... only people I can think of are idiots trying to "win" an internet argument...
#183 May 18 2010 at 12:43 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
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And I completely agree with the above comment that if people are paying monthly so they can play a game 4-8 hours a week, they better be well-off or else they are just retarded.


Compared to what? People who go to a movie once/month? People who dine out once/month? I dunno...$15 for 4-8 hours of entertainment is pretty cheap these days...

I live in a tourist trap town, and there are four bars on my block alone. I'll agree that $15 a month for 4-8 hours of entertainment a week is pretty cheap, considering anybody who walks into one of those bars can kill that same $15 in an hour of even moderate drinking. My wife can blow $15 in five minutes if I let her get anywhere near Victoria's Secret or Bath & Body Works.

Back on topic, I'm for a death penalty in FFXIV if only for the fact that it will make me think twice before doing something reckless. I don't see it as punishment, more like a deterrent against rash action.
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#184 May 18 2010 at 4:14 PM Rating: Good
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I think there should be some sort of penalty. Weakness like is already in FFXI sounds fine. ****, even money. Anything but EXP loss. I've had enough of that and it's one of my biggest gripes about the game. The EXP loss from death in FFXI is WAAY too excessive. 2,500 exp in the 70's? That's a good hour or so of soloing. It also created quite a big burden on other players, particularly WHMs. Being bugged to drop what you are doing to R3 some ******* on the other side of the world isn't fun. They need to find a good balance of causing enough anguish when you die that you don't just run around the world like a careless zombie, but at the same time don't lose 3 hours of work because you got unlucky and a ghost popped on your *** right as you re-raised yourself.

Edited, May 18th 2010 5:15pm by Harri
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#185 May 18 2010 at 6:23 PM Rating: Good
Harri wrote:
I think there should be some sort of penalty. Weakness like is already in FFXI sounds fine. ****, even money. Anything but EXP loss. I've had enough of that and it's one of my biggest gripes about the game. The EXP loss from death in FFXI is WAAY too excessive. 2,500 exp in the 70's? That's a good hour or so of soloing. It also created quite a big burden on other players, particularly WHMs. Being bugged to drop what you are doing to R3 some ******* on the other side of the world isn't fun. They need to find a good balance of causing enough anguish when you die that you don't just run around the world like a careless zombie, but at the same time don't lose 3 hours of work because you got unlucky and a ghost popped on your *** right as you re-raised yourself.

Edited, May 18th 2010 5:15pm by Harri


I'm going to refrain from getting into my personal views on in-game death while at work posting on my droid... but consider this:

How many people were able to form exp parties in XI due to people seeking that wanted to rebuffer/recap their exp?
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#186 May 18 2010 at 11:03 PM Rating: Decent
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A fair point, until you take into consideration the fact that as soon as they hit the buffer they were seeking they found a reason to leave the party and the other members were right back where they were.

But that was a different game, and with any luck, finding a party will be different in FFXIV. Let's just hope that this time around the exp loss (if that is the cost of death) isn't a major reason that people form high level parties.
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#187 May 19 2010 at 6:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Personally I'll be glad if there is some sort of significant penalty.
I say significant, because if it is something so trivial that people just shrug it off because they don't really care, there there isn't any point in having it in the first place.


Edited, May 19th 2010 12:29pm by Fetter
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#188 Jul 16 2010 at 3:05 AM Rating: Default
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I am in for death penalty~

If you had already played FFXI before, if no death penalty is impose upon death, everywhere you go u might see a group of low leveled whm/rdm/sch raising each other and performing DoT on HNM bosses and easily killing HNM dying without any lost. It will make people think that HNM is no longer a challenge anymore as people can ppl use death tank to kill any monster in the game. It goes the same if a character will not delevel after reaching an exp of 0/?????. This would greatly spoil an MMO's challenge, i dont think you would want to see 2 level 25 whm dual tiamaat or what ever HNM in FFXI when people took all their time to level up to lv 80. If this is to happen to FFXIV i guess nobody will have the drive to level up their character, instead all might just level a job that have raise and camp for NM.

If death penalty is not impose at all, i guess you might be facing very "lousy quality" party most of the time, as nobody cares if you die, nobody will try to improve in the way they play as long as they level, they might feel nothing wrong with the way the play, you might be facing death every few minute you have in party. I guess all of us will want to be in a very strong party that can kill non-stop without any death and leveled fast, and not a party that is not skillful, and always die and wait all the time and maybe "not getting party" because people all can simply kill HNM or do anything at low level, without the need to level any job.

No penalty = no need of warp or walk, you can see most of the time when party end, the whole party suicide to go back town instantly. I guess you will be missing lots of fun or surprise that might happen on the way back.

Edited, Jul 16th 2010 5:37am by RECCO
#189 Jul 16 2010 at 9:07 AM Rating: Good
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I would've rather seen the xp penalty still in effect, as long as you can't delevel.
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#190 Jul 16 2010 at 10:07 AM Rating: Good
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KingGhidora wrote:
It would be cool if we got something like CoH/V's debt system. On a death, you didn't level down or lose xp, but gained a "debt". For every xp gaining action, half of the xp went to you and the other half went to pay off the debt. I think it worked great. There was still the loss of time, but not such a harsh penalty as de-leveling.


I had forgotten about this. It was indeed the best of all ways to have a death penalty.

You do not delevel, you just level at 1/2 the normal rate until your debt is paid.

KingGhidora, did you ever get to the max level? At that point, there was really no penalty to dying?
#191 Jul 16 2010 at 8:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I hardly consider myself hardcore. I'm somewhere inbetween. I never participated in the FFXI end game. I never did dynamis, sea, sky, never finished CoP (not for lack of trying) or achieved rank 10 - in five years of playing. Yet I enjoyed the game and managed to level most all jobs to at least 37. Where does that leave someone like me in a game where levels 1-engame are essentially an extensive tutorial? Extreme casual friendly works in WoW where that part of the game is essentially throw-away, but I think it'd be a huge mistake in a successor to FFXI... which had a ton of challenging and meaningful content throughout the leveling process.

I'm still following FFXIV because it's still unclear how far they are pushing it toward the casual extreme. There's still hope because Square-Enix is not known for completely compromising their vision for a quick gil. I'm not opposed to casual elements as long as they don't make the game shallow and repetitive, which has been the case with every 'modern' MMO and the reason why they haven't held my interest for more than few months. I'm going to give this one a try regardless and hope it fares better. There's nothing else even remotely interesting on the horizon anyway.


THIS. SO HARD. I loved FFXI and played it for a long time and never broke a level cap - not once - didn't do a limit break... But I loved it way more than WoW... because I felt like there was a lot to achieve in FFXI - I didn't run out of things to do - and ... well it was great. I don't want a game where it is all a grind to endgame then grind some more. If I did I would just buy WoW and be done with it.

I liked FFXI for the community and I -loved- the job system - being able to try new abilities and a different play style without having to re-do everything else was what did it for me.

I am not worried about ffxiv being a "WoW clone" or whatever. Thankfully. If being "casual" means making the whole game other than end game meaningless - well ... bleh. Even people I knew in FFXI who had one or more lvl 75 job didn't just focus on endgame - there was just so much more to do. I like that. Not everything was great in the game - but I think they have learned a lot - by the end of my time on the game things like fields of valour and the like - tribal moogles etc - really improved some of the annoying things - there needed to be more quests - more choice in items and less grindy-ness in some parts - but overall I really enjoyed it.
#192 Jul 16 2010 at 9:56 PM Rating: Decent
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/more on topic/

I think the death penalty could have been a little more balanced in FFXI - but I like exp loss better than anything that would cost gil... just less of it... even level down didn't bother me so much. Weakness was way more annoying.

I agree with posters about liking that death has an actual penalty - the rush of avoiding death was fun. I do believe the fact that death actually did increase the challenge.

I can also sympathize with people against time sinks. Wasting time is stupid and no fun - I agree.

Part of the issue I think is people wanting to play for different reasons - which is fine. I was not a very goal oriented player - I find gaming relaxing and fun. I don't play to "get sword X" or "get to level Y" - my life is filled with goals and fulfilling in that sense - so that may be why I don't really care for that sort of thing in-game.

I like mmo gaming for the social aspects - and as far as things go I found FFXI to have a fun and engaging community. I think the fact that you couldn't solo most of the game helped with that. I -like- having to group with people for things. It gives the gaming community reasons to be helpful and friendly. If you can do everything yourself there are not a lot of deterrents for trolls.

Yes - waiting for a group can suck ... but I am lucky because being less goal oriented meant I could put my flag up and run around doing other things without feeling too miserable about the whole thing.

Besides - SE did a lot to mitigate the more annoying things in their game - at least by the end of when I was playing - level sync/fields of valour for example made it easier to play with friends or to solo/duo.

It would have been nice if they had done that stuff sooner - but it is in the past so I don't worry about it too much - especially with the future coming, and presumably - those lessons learned.

I didn't spend a lot of time before deciding I didn't like WoW... and the number one factor was the complete lack of any fun sense of community - every interaction I had with people was negative. It was a bummer. Maybe I was just unlucky... but I really missed playing with other people. My view is if all you want to do is solo - why play a multiplayer game?

#193 Jul 16 2010 at 10:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Allegory wrote:
Calispel wrote:
The problem with WoW clones is that there are so freakin' many of them.

That's because they aren't clones. It's so annoying to hear people constantly abuse the term. There has been a genre shift. Do you know what early FPS games were called? Doom clones. Early dungeon RPGs were called roguelikes.

There has been a genre shift/split. Games like Lotro and WAR aren't copying WoW so much as they are embracing a new style of MMORPG. You don't consider FFXI to be an EQ clone do you; even though comparatively that's exactly what it is.

"WoW clone" is as tired a comment as it is flawed.


Are you serious? I haven't played every mmo in the world but i've played my share and I certainly would not call FFXI a EQ clone. As stated by others, MMO's where alot more unique pre-wow. a lot of companies trying to clone WoW with updated graphics/technology. Very silly IMO because most people that play WoW don't want to play WoW, they don't like it anymore, but theres nothing else out there. Why is there nothing else out there? Well because 90% of games are just crappy wow clones and why would anyone leave wow just to play a crappy/bugged copy? The other 10% that actually go the unique route. Vanguard, Warhammer, etc. get pushed into releasing a bugged/incomplete/poorly tested game. Because investors are dumb and know nothing except that they would like the money that blizzard is making. So games that could be great go straight to the MMO grave, also known as EA. I don't know how many people here played vanguard, but I liked it, the gameplay and difficulty. It definetly was not catered to casual, and far from a WoW clone. The game could of been great, if it wasnt released months too soon. I was the first person in the world to hit the lvl cap in crafting and I don't even remember the exact /playtime but it was something like 700+ hours, just to max out crafting and thats with no idle time, if I went to eat or anything I logged off.

Now I would have a summary normally but since it's all subjective and pointless I'll just leave it at that =)

On to the real topic: I personally hated FFXI's death penalty, and thats why I quit playing the first week after launch. I don't know how many people pre-ordered FFXI like me and began playing the first day but let me tell you a little tale of how miserable I was. First off at this time the game had allready been live in Japan for a year when it was released in NA, in case you didn't know, and they had no servers for NA, we had no choice accept to fill up the Japanese servers. What does that mean? It means you ended up on a server that was 90% japanese, 10% American. So you couldn't talk to 90% of your server (language barrier) and the ones that knew English wernt much help either (considering they where max lv and you where lv 1.) So I would login and spend hours upon hours getting teams together, just for them to fail, cause me to lose xp and then break up. It took hours to form a team beacuse there was barely any new players on the server. Now I don't mind xp loss don't get me wrong, I do mind xp loss combined with forced partying. If I have to party with people then I refuse to take xp loss as a penalty, cause it's not my fault 99% of the time that I die in a party.

Edited, Jul 17th 2010 1:11am by Diggtown
#194 Jul 17 2010 at 12:15 AM Rating: Decent
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I still don't understand why people are so concerned about loosing EXP.

Just bring a Reraise item.
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Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#195 Jul 17 2010 at 12:17 AM Rating: Decent
Thief's Knife
*****
15,053 posts
havashank wrote:
thorazinekizzez wrote:
I doubt armor durability will be in FFXIV since it wasn't in any way shape or form a part of any final fantasy game ever made.


It's been known since fall of '09 that weapons, shields and armor will all deteriorate and need repair in FFXIV. Confirmed in an early interview here:

http://www.curse.com/blogs/final-fantasy-xiv-news/archive/2009/09/11/new-ffxiv-information-from-dengeki.aspx


they also said it would be vista only and use DirectX 10 but I don't see that.
____________________________
Final Fantasy XI 12-14-11 Update wrote:
Adjust the resolution of menus.
The main screen resolution for "FINAL FANTASY XI" is dependent on the "Overlay Graphics Resolution" setting.
If the Overlay Graphics Resolution is set higher than the Menu Resolution, menus will be automatically resized.


I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#196 Jul 17 2010 at 1:18 AM Rating: Good
***
1,218 posts
A weakness period sounds fine to me. XP loss in EQ and FFXI only ever frustrated me, especially when it happened because of some silly RNG event like invis wearing off during the split second you needed it to actually work, or (back when it was still possible) getting run over by some one else's Smithie train, etc.

Time is the currency that we all pay to play, and weakness is a good way to cost people time without making them feel like they're going backwards.
#197 Jul 17 2010 at 8:51 AM Rating: Decent
34 posts
Lobivopis wrote:
I still don't understand why people are so concerned about loosing EXP.

Just bring a Reraise item.


Yeah, there are many ways to get reraise, hairpin that can be purchase from AH, a reraise scroll using conquest point or even get reraise from NPC when a campaign is started that that [S]area using campaign points, or even sub job or job that can cast magic/song for reraise.



Edited, Jul 17th 2010 10:56am by RECCO
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