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New SE newsletter (confirming 2010 release).Follow

#1 May 26 2010 at 7:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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In the newest SE newsletter, they reconfirmed a release date of 2010 (which is refreshing they did not use the term "Fiscal Year"). Also, they are playing up the fact that it was Roddard Ironheart who created the map for FFXIV. The details are posted below:

COMING 2010 for PC and the PlayStation®3 system

Come and explore beautiful Limsa Lominsa! You'll find newly-released details and images for this marine metropolis on the official site. Also, get a sneek peak at the entire Eorzean realm by checking out the world map — created for adventurers far and wide by renowned mapmaker, Roddard Ironheart!
#2 May 26 2010 at 11:48 AM Rating: Good
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I saw that, it put a giant **** eating grin on my face.

Im still very hopeful of a 2010 release and this only helps.
#3 May 26 2010 at 2:03 PM Rating: Default
The release date is "confirmed" when SE gives a specific date. This specific date will probably not be announced until a month or two before that specific date. Nothing has been "confirmed".
#4 May 26 2010 at 2:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm betting that the release date will be addressed at E3. I won't say confirmed, but I'm sure they'll let you know how things are moving along IF they still plan on going ahead with a 2010 date.
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#5 May 26 2010 at 8:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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Aurelius wrote:
The release date is "confirmed" when SE gives a specific date. This specific date will probably not be announced until a month or two before that specific date. Nothing has been "confirmed".


At least we have an estimate, which is better than nothing. Quite frankly I wouldn't mind if they pushed it back to early 2011.
#6 May 26 2010 at 8:46 PM Rating: Default
Kaaraa wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
The release date is "confirmed" when SE gives a specific date. This specific date will probably not be announced until a month or two before that specific date. Nothing has been "confirmed".


At least we have an estimate, which is better than nothing. Quite frankly I wouldn't mind if they pushed it back to early 2011.


We've had that same estimate for a year now. The same conversation is taking place on BG. SE repeats their estimate and people interpret it as confirmation, which it is not. They're just repeating what they've already said. It's not like they're going to shift the estimate to 2011 because the alpha is running longer than anticipated. I'm not trying to slam the OP for making false statements, but that's essentially what they have done by claiming something to be confirmed when it hasn't been. MMO developers these days are witholding shipping dates until late into the final phases of the beta. It's a very smart move. If it runs late, it's better to shift an estimate than it is to push back an explicit date.
#7 May 26 2010 at 11:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm "hoping" to hear a release date at E3. It would be a perfect venue for such information but all we can really do is speculate. We know information will be released at E3 but to what extent? I just pray we don't get more of "look forward to more information soon!" statements..
#8 May 27 2010 at 7:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
Kaaraa wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
The release date is "confirmed" when SE gives a specific date. This specific date will probably not be announced until a month or two before that specific date. Nothing has been "confirmed".


At least we have an estimate, which is better than nothing. Quite frankly I wouldn't mind if they pushed it back to early 2011.


We've had that same estimate for a year now. The same conversation is taking place on BG. SE repeats their estimate and people interpret it as confirmation, which it is not. They're just repeating what they've already said. It's not like they're going to shift the estimate to 2011 because the alpha is running longer than anticipated. I'm not trying to slam the OP for making false statements, but that's essentially what they have done by claiming something to be confirmed when it hasn't been. MMO developers these days are witholding shipping dates until late into the final phases of the beta. It's a very smart move. If it runs late, it's better to shift an estimate than it is to push back an explicit date.


Confirmation does not require a specific date. The defination of confirm is this:

Main Entry: con·firm
Function: transitive verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French cunfermer, from Latin confirmare, from com- + firmare to make firm, from firmus firm
Date: 13th century
1 : to give approval to : ratify <confirm a treaty>
2 : to make firm or firmer : strengthen <confirm one's resolve>
3 : to administer the rite of confirmation to
4 : to give new assurance of the validity of : remove doubt about by authoritative act or indisputable fact <confirm a rumor> <confirm an order>

Now based on the 2nd definition, this is EXACTLY what SE has just done. They reiterated the date they have been stating over and over. Now you can also see where it fits definition #4 as well (They did give a new assurance by the act of placing the date once again in the newsletter).

So please don't say I gave false statments. All I mentioned is that they reconfirmed what they had already said about a 2010 release. Maybe it would have been more clear if I said reaffirm? Either way, I did include the information on the email in that post for everyone to see (and furthermore decide for themselves).
#9 May 27 2010 at 8:36 AM Rating: Decent
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Aurelius wrote:
Kaaraa wrote:
Aurelius wrote:
The release date is "confirmed" when SE gives a specific date. This specific date will probably not be announced until a month or two before that specific date. Nothing has been "confirmed".


At least we have an estimate, which is better than nothing. Quite frankly I wouldn't mind if they pushed it back to early 2011.


We've had that same estimate for a year now. The same conversation is taking place on BG. SE repeats their estimate and people interpret it as confirmation, which it is not. They're just repeating what they've already said. It's not like they're going to shift the estimate to 2011 because the alpha is running longer than anticipated. I'm not trying to slam the OP for making false statements, but that's essentially what they have done by claiming something to be confirmed when it hasn't been. MMO developers these days are witholding shipping dates until late into the final phases of the beta. It's a very smart move. If it runs late, it's better to shift an estimate than it is to push back an explicit date.


I'm not implying that we never had an estimate (a few overly hopeful friends of mine won't shut up about playing FFXIV during the summer), it's just nice to get a little reassurance in light of the whole "Fiscal Year" argument that sprang up last week.

Also, what'd stop SE from pushing their estimate back? Unless I'm not thinking straight, your post denounces the importance of this "confirmation" yet defending it at the same time.
#12 May 27 2010 at 9:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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Aurelius. Holy ****, dude.
#14 May 27 2010 at 11:36 AM Rating: Decent
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WoW, an argument over the semantics of confirmation. Riveting!
#16 May 27 2010 at 12:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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Daggit wrote:
WoW, an argument over the semantics of confirmation. Riveting!


Can you confim this was an argument?

Sorry had to {insert smiley here since no Premium}
#20 May 27 2010 at 1:17 PM Rating: Good
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The flame war had actually already been instigated - just looks like Elkm was mature enough not to take the bait.
#21 May 27 2010 at 2:05 PM Rating: Good
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Torrence wrote:
The flame war had actually already been instigated - just looks like Elkm was mature enough not to take the bait.


Thank you! I try my best to ignore inflaming posts, since they generally do more damage then good.

I hate how great topics (not talking about my topic since it was simply a post about the newest SE newsletter that anyone could have made) are often obscured by two people arguing over a point that is not even the main topic of conversation. The bad thing is, this discourages others from posting possibly even better opinions because they don't want to be flamed as well.

A flame war always requires 2 participants, and I will gladly walk away from any E-challenge before that would ever occur.
#22 May 27 2010 at 3:24 PM Rating: Excellent
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I nuked everything fiery in this thread, report any further stuff as well, please.
#23 May 27 2010 at 3:33 PM Rating: Good
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Pikko wrote:
I nuked everything fiery in this thread, report any further stuff as well, please.

I didn't think it was that bad. There was nothing threatening or profane... just a level of rage disproportionate to a discussion of the word "confirm."

Edited, May 27th 2010 4:34pm by Borkachev
#24 May 27 2010 at 3:51 PM Rating: Good
Borkachev wrote:
Pikko wrote:
I nuked everything fiery in this thread, report any further stuff as well, please.

I didn't think it was that bad. There was nothing threatening or profane... just a level of rage disproportionate to a discussion of the word "confirm."

Edited, May 27th 2010 4:34pm by Borkachev



Except that it's happening in a huge number of threads, every day, usually by the same few people. Most of us are sick and tired of reading this back and forth interwebz argument over the most ******* ridiculous minutia.
#25 May 27 2010 at 4:05 PM Rating: Good
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Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Borkachev wrote:
Pikko wrote:
I nuked everything fiery in this thread, report any further stuff as well, please.

I didn't think it was that bad. There was nothing threatening or profane... just a level of rage disproportionate to a discussion of the word "confirm."

Edited, May 27th 2010 4:34pm by Borkachev



Except that it's happening in a huge number of threads, every day, usually by the same few people. Most of us are sick and tired of reading this back and forth interwebz argument over the most ******* ridiculous minutia.


You're wrong!!! I love the drama...its like days of our lives but online!

In other news, aurelius likes to be controversial 90% of the time...I think he fits in this category:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/155/409480319_03a72581f2.jpg


Waiting for unsuspecting interweb travelers. I even recently found a biography on him too!!!


http://www.flayme.com/troll/angler.shtml

Edited, May 27th 2010 6:06pm by burtonsnow
#26 May 27 2010 at 4:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Pikko begins casting Flare....

:)
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#27The One and Only Aurelius, Posted: May 27 2010 at 4:40 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yes, and the squeaky wheels are getting greased, it would seem. I don't like censorship, and I don't like absentee admins getting involved on a knee-jerk basis. Anything else I have to say will be reserved for PMs.
#28 May 27 2010 at 5:35 PM Rating: Good
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Can you confim this was an argument?

Sorry had to {insert smiley here since no Premium}


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#29 May 28 2010 at 10:29 AM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:

Except that it's happening in a huge number of threads, every day, usually by the same few people. Most of us are sick and tired of reading this back and forth interwebz argument over the most ******* ridiculous minutia.


Yes, and the squeaky wheels are getting greased, it would seem. I don't like censorship, and I don't like absentee admins getting involved on a knee-jerk basis. Anything else I have to say will be reserved for PMs.

I personally think it's absolutely ridiculous that only certain people get any flack for starting flame wars while others do it with the full support of the boards behind them. Complete ********* If one person is going to get **** for flaming, EVERYONE who flames should. And honestly, people on this board look way too hard to find flame wars to instigate in many cases. There are too many instances of flame wars already being finished and people still prodding at posts from 3 pages ago. At least Aurelius doesn't hide behind some pretentious excuse of "promoting greater justice" through his flaming like some people on this board. EVERYONE should take personal matters and insults in PM's if it has nothing to do with the argument. You're not "cool" or a hero by tearing someone down in a thread for supposed "flaming."
#30 May 28 2010 at 10:47 AM Rating: Good
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Censorship is wrong, but free speech doesn't mean you have a license to be abusive and insulting to other people with careless disregard. It does seem to be the same people over and over, and I'll agree with at least one statement:

Absentee Admins.

I really don't know what you guys do all day, but I do think that if there was more of a presence here from the moderators there would be fewer threads just running rampant. I get that there's only a handful of mods for XI and XIV side, but I do have to point out that there are boards out there that don't have paid Admins at all and they manage to moderate their forums just fine. Sometimes I think the karma system is relied upon a little *too* much. Bullies with green arrows sometimes outnumber non-bullies with reds.

This place has been getting more and more hostile by the day, and it's a very sad day when someone gets attacked for just calling to attention something in an SE newsletter that's completely relevant to the forum.
#31 May 28 2010 at 12:24 PM Rating: Good
Bluefirefly wrote:
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:

Except that it's happening in a huge number of threads, every day, usually by the same few people. Most of us are sick and tired of reading this back and forth interwebz argument over the most ******* ridiculous minutia.


Yes, and the squeaky wheels are getting greased, it would seem. I don't like censorship, and I don't like absentee admins getting involved on a knee-jerk basis. Anything else I have to say will be reserved for PMs.

I personally think it's absolutely ridiculous that only certain people get any flack for starting flame wars while others do it with the full support of the boards behind them. Complete bullsh*t. If one person is going to get sh*t for flaming, EVERYONE who flames should. And honestly, people on this board look way too hard to find flame wars to instigate in many cases. There are too many instances of flame wars already being finished and people still prodding at posts from 3 pages ago. At least Aurelius doesn't hide behind some pretentious excuse of "promoting greater justice" through his flaming like some people on this board. EVERYONE should take personal matters and insults in PM's if it has nothing to do with the argument. You're not "cool" or a hero by tearing someone down in a thread for supposed "flaming."


For what it's worth, I wasn't tossing flack at any individual person at all. I was just commenting in general at the degeneration of the threads lately on these boards. I am tired of seeing it; I don't care who is doing it. I didn't personally do anything to tear anyone's thread down. I don't go running to mods to complain about things people say unless they're blatantly posting racist crap or some other extreme thing such as that. I suppose I was born just a few years before that whole change of child-raising paradigm to "Sticks and stones won't break my bones but words can hurt and you should just go running to the nearest adult vs sticking up for yourself and developing a thick skin". Which I find to be disgusting, btw.

And yes, you're totally right Blue, there are way too many others who prodding the flame wars and wont let !@%& drop, but it takes two to tango, so both parties are equally wrong IMO.

Also, those threads that got wiped... that was not censorship. If anything, I'd just call that spring cleaning. Censorship will occur if an admin deletes Aur's thread complaining about the mods not doing their jobs. In which case, I'd totally support him. If you guys want to see over moderation and censorship on a gaming forum, head on over to the The Old Republic forums. It's sickening.
#32 May 28 2010 at 2:48 PM Rating: Good
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Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:

I suppose I was born just a few years before that whole change of child-raising paradigm to "Sticks and stones won't break my bones but words can hurt and you should just go running to the nearest adult vs sticking up for yourself and developing a thick skin". Which I find to be disgusting, btw.


I'm not really sure that I understand what you are saying here. Are you saying that verbal abuse is acceptable and natural and that it's the responsibility only of the person who is the target of the abuse to deal with? I can't get behind that, to be quite frank. There's a reason that boards have moderators - to moderate and step in when people cross the line (which they tend to do more frequently on an anonymous message board). Verbal abuse can be just as damaging as physical abuse and we shouldn't let people act like bullies just because "it's only words" or "it's only teh interwebz".

It sends the wrong message and is as good as flat out encouraging negative behavior, which can and in many cases does lead to more severe instances of abuse.

I'm not saying I think anyone is going to go out and become an axe murderer or anything, but these boards are open to the public and I don't think that anyone wants the Alla reputation to be "Oh those boards? Yea they just flame back and forth and never say anything useful since there's no moderation lulz" .

Edited, May 28th 2010 4:52pm by Torrence
#33 May 28 2010 at 4:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Torrence wrote:

I'm not saying I think anyone is going to go out and become an axe murderer or anything, but these boards are open to the public and I don't think that anyone wants the Alla reputation to be "Oh those boards? Yea they just flame back and forth and never say anything useful since there's no moderation lulz" .


Unfortunately, this section of the board already has that reputation. Just saying.
#34 May 28 2010 at 4:25 PM Rating: Decent
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Bluefirefly wrote:
Unfortunately, this section of the board already has that reputation. Just saying.



I think it all started with team edward vs team that other guy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q77sJT8O56E
#35 May 28 2010 at 4:37 PM Rating: Decent
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I think it all started with team edward vs team that other guy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q77sJT8O56E


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#36 May 28 2010 at 5:13 PM Rating: Good
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I must say, I've stopped posting on alla a lot more lately because of Aurelius, and people like him. He seems to enjoy bullying people around and trying to win arguments that don't even need to be made, he also has a knack for stalking people who disagree with him and enjoys belittling people any chance he gets. Honestly this kind of behavior doesn't encourage people to stick around on this site. Sure, everyone has their moments from time to time, people get upset every now and then, but there are some people who just like to instigate fighting and drama and I really don't think that's going to build a healthy FFXIV community. They get away with it because they guise themselves under a few useful posts, but then they turn around and take out all their angst on people over the internet. I really do wish there was a anti-flaming/fighting/needless drama/etc rule on Alla, would make it a much better and friendly site.
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#37 May 28 2010 at 5:52 PM Rating: Decent
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LebargeX wrote:
I am seldom struck speechless... but that's done it.


Yea...reminds me of the south park episode they did on vamps lol. I can only begin imagine what pushes people to do this.


endlessjourney wrote:
I must say, I've stopped posting on alla a lot more lately because of Aurelius, and people like him. He seems to enjoy bullying people around and trying to win arguments that don't even need to be made, he also has a knack for stalking people who disagree with him and enjoys belittling people any chance he gets. Honestly this kind of behavior doesn't encourage people to stick around on this site. Sure, everyone has their moments from time to time, people get upset every now and then, but there are some people who just like to instigate fighting and drama and I really don't think that's going to build a healthy FFXIV community. They get away with it because they guise themselves under a few useful posts, but then they turn around and take out all their angst on people over the internet. I really do wish there was a anti-flaming/fighting/needless drama/etc rule on Alla, would make it a much better and friendly site.



Yes and no...we need to realize the internet is chalk full of opinions..just because we don't have the same opinion or act in a similar manner it doesn't make the other person wrong or us right. **** sometimes people just post dumb **** (something I like to do often) and sometimes it just comes across wrong on the internet where emotion is as blank as the spaces between words. It goes both ways (like my future girlfriends jkjk :P)...stop being trolls and nitpicking every comment...and to those who respond stop being counter-trolls and nitpicking their comments, we will just end up with another BG....BARF
#38 May 28 2010 at 6:31 PM Rating: Decent
I think that if you guys are going to hash out the areas where this forum could stand to improve, you might do well to stop and consider all of the people that have been driven off by people who are not me. I don't accept...not for a second...that the territorial nonsense displayed by the FFXI community here is in any way more acceptable than my stance here. Not...a single...second. The difference is, when someone from another game (whether or not they've played FFXI in the past) comes here and leaves shortly thereafter because they're tired of being berated and put down by the vastly outnumbering population of XI expats, they don't kick up a fuss and cry about it. They just leave, and on occasion they send me a PM wishing me luck against the "idiots".

It's a two sided street, and for as long as you guys leave a mess on your side of the street, it's going to be and stay ugly. You want me to change...well...anything? Own your part. I've said it before and I'll say it one last time...don't talk to me about the strength of YOUR community when YOUR community has chased out most of the people who would have liked to have been a part of THIS community. These forums aren't for XI players. XIV is not for XI players. New game. New community. Altogether too many of you have come here and acted with some sense of entitlement as XI players that you in no way possess, and you refuse to acknowledge it. I don't bend in the face of hypocrisy.

I'd like this forum to be a place for intelligent discussion. That means when an idea is posted, from time to time it's going to get picked apart. When I'm at work and I'm collaborating with the contractor I work for to coordinate some kind of repair, he doesn't stomp his feet and have a hissy fit when he suggests one way to go about it and I point out some of the problems we might encounter with his method, and nor do I when he does the same thing to me. And in the end, we always come up with a workable solution and we always finish the project happy with the results. There's little of that here. One person posts an idea, it gets picked apart, they cry. They emoplode. They don't own their part. They don't think big picture. They just meltdown, and frankly I find entertainment in rubbing salt in their wounds. I've had it done to me on these boards more times than I can count and it sucked being on the receiving end of it but I learned from it.

Own your part. You might be surprised at the outcome.

Edited, May 28th 2010 7:13pm by Aurelius
#39 May 28 2010 at 6:55 PM Rating: Decent
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Who needs *** in the city 2 when we got this drama!

/epic thread.

Edited, May 28th 2010 5:57pm by Daggit
#40 May 28 2010 at 8:15 PM Rating: Good
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EndlessJourney wrote:
I must say, I've stopped posting on alla a lot more lately because of Aurelius, and people like him. He seems to enjoy bullying people around and trying to win arguments that don't even need to be made, he also has a knack for stalking people who disagree with him and enjoys belittling people any chance he gets. Honestly this kind of behavior doesn't encourage people to stick around on this site. Sure, everyone has their moments from time to time, people get upset every now and then, but there are some people who just like to instigate fighting and drama and I really don't think that's going to build a healthy FFXIV community. They get away with it because they guise themselves under a few useful posts, but then they turn around and take out all their angst on people over the internet. I really do wish there was a anti-flaming/fighting/needless drama/etc rule on Alla, would make it a much better and friendly site.


To some extent, I get what you're saying about Aur. He's only got one tool in his toolbox, and it's a hammer.

But I wouldn't want him to be censored, nor do I wish him removed from the board or otherwise moderated. He brings some good things to the table (like almost all posters do), and I think it's important to maintain some level of free speech on the boards to encourage discourse. And on some level, drama here is entertaining. It's a good time-waster, at least.

Things will change once the game is released. Right now there just isn't enough material to keep the board chugging. Once it's out, we'll be less apt to curse each other out about semantics and irrelevant stuff. Instead, we'll be cursing each other out about whether say, a +1 mace is better than a +1 sword.

Edited, May 28th 2010 10:20pm by Eske
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#41 May 28 2010 at 8:29 PM Rating: Decent
Eske wrote:
EndlessJourney wrote:
I must say, I've stopped posting on alla a lot more lately because of Aurelius, and people like him. He seems to enjoy bullying people around and trying to win arguments that don't even need to be made, he also has a knack for stalking people who disagree with him and enjoys belittling people any chance he gets. Honestly this kind of behavior doesn't encourage people to stick around on this site. Sure, everyone has their moments from time to time, people get upset every now and then, but there are some people who just like to instigate fighting and drama and I really don't think that's going to build a healthy FFXIV community. They get away with it because they guise themselves under a few useful posts, but then they turn around and take out all their angst on people over the internet. I really do wish there was a anti-flaming/fighting/needless drama/etc rule on Alla, would make it a much better and friendly site.


To some extent, I get what you're saying about Aur. He's only got one tool in his toolbox, and it's a hammer.


I also have a pair of pliers and a blow torch, but those rarely get brought out. :P
#42 May 28 2010 at 9:03 PM Rating: Good
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Daggit wrote:
Who needs *** in the city 2 when we got this drama!

/epic thread.

Edited, May 28th 2010 5:57pm by Daggit


I'd give the epicness of this thread a 4/10.

It doesn't get about 7 until someones been banned or has a meltdown.
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#43 May 29 2010 at 12:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Censorship is wrong, but free speech doesn't mean you have a license to be abusive and insulting to other people with careless disregard.
Actually, it does, but it also means you should be prepared for the consequences of how people respond to it. Freedom of speech also gives the people who run this site the option to censor what we say. I don't think they should do it, to the extent that it was done in this thread, but they can.

I think flame wars should be allowed to blossom, unless it gets really vicious, to the point where physical violence is threatened or what not. Sometimes, once they settle, all on their own, something is actually accomplished.
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#44 May 29 2010 at 1:43 AM Rating: Good
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EndlessJourney wrote:
I must say, I've stopped posting on alla a lot more lately because of Aurelius, and people like him. He seems to enjoy bullying people around and trying to win arguments that don't even need to be made.


It's amazing how long Aurelius and fill in the blank can keep a thread on life support via quote wars long after it should have died.

If you don't like watching Aurelius nitpick every minute element of someone else's post in agonizing detail, just do what I do and keep scrolling down.

As little as I get out of Aurelius' posts, I'd rather have them here than not. At least that way other members have the option of deciding for themselves whether or not they want to listen to what he has to say.
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#45 May 29 2010 at 6:30 AM Rating: Default
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If you don't like watching Aurelius nitpick every minute element of someone else's post in agonizing detail, just do what I do and keep scrolling down.

As little as I get out of Aurelius' posts, I'd rather have them here than not. At least that way other members have the option of deciding for themselves whether or not they want to listen to what he has to say.


I agree with this. If you guys don't like what's being said or whatnot, you have the option of IGNORING the post/thread. No one is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to stay and read any post you may find disagreeable. I think this can go for every single person posting in this thread. If you think the "idiots" are too much for you, you don't HAVE to read their posts and belittle them, especially since in the long run of things, it doesn't really mean much since at this point a lot of things involving the game are subject to change. That said, the people who also get really sensitive about people disagreeing with them can easily just ignore said person(s) and continue posting their opinion, no matter how ignorant it might be.
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#46 May 29 2010 at 6:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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2,010 posts
You know what the problem with that is though? At some point, people start ignoring ANY thread that they see those people in, and that's, well... Every thread.

Folks are coming here for information and discussion, not to see 4 pages worth of 50,000 word essays that are little more than ********* because someone thought it would be lulz to try to rip someone down over something stupid.

It's tiresome, and getting old, and I'm already skipping over half the posts in any given thread because I know there is nothing worthwhile in them. How long before I, and others like me, just skip the forums altogether?

Really, that's what you're saying here. "Put up with my mouth or gtfo" and I think that's probably the silliest thing you've ever said. What happened to you Aur? A month or two ago every single word that came out of your keyboard was genuine contribution and brilliant. Now I just don't even know who you are anymore. The discussion in this thread should never have happened. It was trivial and beneath you to act like that.

There's a big difference between a "flame war" and a disagreement discussion of the subject matter. One is just name calling and mudslinging, and is NOT good forum content.
#47 May 29 2010 at 9:53 AM Rating: Default
Torrence wrote:
You know what the problem with that is though? At some point, people start ignoring ANY thread that they see those people in, and that's, well... Every thread.

Folks are coming here for information and discussion, not to see 4 pages worth of 50,000 word essays that are little more than ********* because someone thought it would be lulz to try to rip someone down over something stupid.


There are a lot of people who are not coming here for information. They're coming here hoping to be told what they want to hear. And when they're told the opposite of what they want to hear, even if it's the truth, they kick and fuss about it. This thread is a shining example of that. No new information was given. Nothing newsworthy was released. SE's marketing department released a newsletter that, with regards to the release timeframe, repeated what we had already been told. It wasn't even a dedicated FFXIV update...it was a multi-game newsletter. None of the concerns that prompted the speculation that the game might get bumped to 2011 were addressed. But that's not what people want to hear. The simple fact of the matter is that it could still go either way.

The people coming here looking for information based on an intelligent mix of what SE has said, an understanding of how the genre has evolved, and experience across a broad spectrum of games, and a reasonable dose of speculation? They don't stick around. And they leave because the good information is drowned out in a mountain of baseless speculation. Not everyone who gives up on these forums because of it sends me a PM, but based on the number who DO, it stands to reason there are just as many if not more who find this forum largely useless for intelligent discussion as there are people who don't want to post because of the meanie head. So if you're right, and people are coming here for information, why are so many leaving because they have to sift through pages of useless pap to find it? It's not because I'm apparently the forum ogre...it's because the level of intellectual maturity displayed here is frightfully low. It's turning into a repeat of a certain forum that shall remain nameless, and I don't want that and nor do a significant number of others.

Do you see what I'm getting at? Two sides to the story, two sides to the street.

Quote:
Really, that's what you're saying here. "Put up with my mouth or gtfo" and I think that's probably the silliest thing you've ever said. What happened to you Aur? A month or two ago every single word that came out of your keyboard was genuine contribution and brilliant. Now I just don't even know who you are anymore. The discussion in this thread should never have happened. It was trivial and beneath you to act like that.


See above. I prefer information posted as newsworthy to contain a higher standard of merit than what this thread offered. I told the truth. The OP told people what they wanted to hear. Then the OP argued. Yes, my response was over the top...I was largely distracted reading through the thread and it was just another repeat of so many other threads here that the OP got the brunt of my general disdain for this community. I'd apologize for that were it not for the smug passive aggressive bullsh*t that followed.

This community as it currently exists is not representative of the community that will emerge when the game goes live, but this community as it exists will destroy that community out of sheer ignorance and closed mindedness if enough of you don't pull your head out and start thinking big picture.

Edited, May 29th 2010 9:15am by Aurelius
#48 May 29 2010 at 11:03 AM Rating: Good
Quote:
There are a lot of people who are not coming here for information. They're coming here hoping to be told what they want to hear. And when they're told the opposite of what they want to hear, even if it's the truth, they kick and fuss about it. This thread is a shining example of that. No new information was given. Nothing newsworthy was released. SE's marketing department released a newsletter that, with regards to the release timeframe, repeated what we had already been told. It wasn't even a dedicated FFXIV update...it was a multi-game newsletter. None of the concerns that prompted the speculation that the game might get bumped to 2011 were addressed. But that's not what people want to hear. The simple fact of the matter is that it could still go either way.

So, rather than sparking conversation about a possible 2011 release option, you instead told the OP how wrong he was. It seems to me that you don't really give a crap about anyone else's opinion, only your own. If you don't like the thread, then don't post in it. To me you are nothing but an attention *****, and probably the biggest hypocrite of us all.
#49 May 29 2010 at 11:40 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
So, rather than sparking conversation about a possible 2011 release option, you instead told the OP how wrong he was. It seems to me that you don't really give a crap about anyone else's opinion, only your own. If you don't like the thread, then don't post in it. To me you are nothing but an attention *****, and probably the biggest hypocrite of us all.


I kinda agree with this guy a bit. You always seem to make yourself out to be someone who tries to "save" this community from its "ignorance", but you rarely say anything that seems as such. I'm not trying to start a flame war or w/e, but if you really did believe in teaching the ignorant people of this board about how to better themselves, you should try to actually say what's wrong with what they're saying instead of just shutting them down with your opinion.

Actually, I think that's one reason why you get a lot of flak on this board. If you try to actually discuss your stance on a subject instead of forcing it on others, people will probably listen to you more. I know you always bring up the "I've been like this ever since I've been on this board, and I'm not going to change for anyone" whenever someone brings it up, but a lot of hostility towards you can be cut down a lot if you just take a step back and try not to be so opinionated. Just my 2 cents.
____________________________
We cast away priceless time in dreams, born of imagination, fed upon illusion, and put to death by reality. - Judy Garland
#50 May 29 2010 at 11:48 AM Rating: Excellent
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2,010 posts
Auruelis wrote:


I kinda agree with this guy a bit. You always seem to make yourself out to be someone who tries to "save" this community from its "ignorance", but you rarely say anything that seems as such. I'm not trying to start a flame war or w/e, but if you really did believe in teaching the ignorant people of this board about how to better themselves, you should try to actually say what's wrong with what they're saying instead of just shutting them down with your opinion.

Actually, I think that's one reason why you get a lot of flak on this board. If you try to actually discuss your stance on a subject instead of forcing it on others, people will probably listen to you more. I know you always bring up the "I've been like this ever since I've been on this board, and I'm not going to change for anyone" whenever someone brings it up, but a lot of hostility towards you can be cut down a lot if you just take a step back and try not to be so opinionated. Just my 2 cents.


Not really sure who this is directed at - is "this guy" the person you quoted and it's directed at someone else (like me?), or is it directed at the person you quoted?
#51 May 29 2010 at 11:59 AM Rating: Default
Auruelis wrote:
Quote:
So, rather than sparking conversation about a possible 2011 release option, you instead told the OP how wrong he was. It seems to me that you don't really give a crap about anyone else's opinion, only your own. If you don't like the thread, then don't post in it. To me you are nothing but an attention *****, and probably the biggest hypocrite of us all.


I kinda agree with this guy a bit. You always seem to make yourself out to be someone who tries to "save" this community from its "ignorance", but you rarely say anything that seems as such. I'm not trying to start a flame war or w/e, but if you really did believe in teaching the ignorant people of this board about how to better themselves, you should try to actually say what's wrong with what they're saying instead of just shutting them down with your opinion.


I think that if you look back through the history of these boards, you'll find that's not in any way true. I've explained my point of view on countless issues countless times and it has made no difference. It's not until what I've talked about takes shape in the game that people stop arguing about it. So if explaining it is just a waste of breath, why waste the time? And should I censor myself because people don't want to hear the truth? **** no. So I just lay it out and if people want to cry about it, let them cry.

People argued with me tooth and nail about such things as action bars, viable solo play, rapid transit, the class system, and anything/everything else they could think of and look what we see now...action bars, viable solo play, Aetheryte all over the place, abilities from one class equipped on others, etc. Again...people reading what they want to read, rating people up for feeding them what they want to hear, and crying when the rational speculation leads them away from what they want to see. And it's not because I'm some omniscient MMO guru that I've been right far more often than I've been wrong here...I just read the information we're given and don't try to put my own subjective spin on it in the hopes that it will in some way invalidate what we've been told.

Take the Aetheryte rapid transit, for example. My argument was that a) SE said they want the game to be casual friendly and b) rapid travel options promote that and are a staple in more recent MMOs. Look back at the pages upon pages of people presenting an alternative point of view. But you want to make ME out to be the bad guy? On one hand you've got one guy cursing and screaming and flaming and being a right sodding jerk about the whole thing claiming that fast transit would only lead to people "mindlessly exploring" and you guys all rallied around and kissed his *** because hardcore is cruise control for cool. 'Cept...he, and everyone who argued his point of view was wrong. Not wrong because they had a preference, but wrong because what they were advocating is NOT what SE said they wanted for the game and, well, wrong because it's in the game now. So when I see that sort of thing unfold, I lose respect for the community. When I see people arguing that they don't want solo play because it will mean fewer people available with which to fill out THEIR groups, they're being selfish. They're being ego-centric. And they're fully and completely ignoring what SE said. Intellectual maturity. There's not enough of it here.

Quote:
Actually, I think that's one reason why you get a lot of flak on this board. If you try to actually discuss your stance on a subject instead of forcing it on others, people will probably listen to you more. I know you always bring up the "I've been like this ever since I've been on this board, and I'm not going to change for anyone" whenever someone brings it up, but a lot of hostility towards you can be cut down a lot if you just take a step back and try not to be so opinionated. Just my 2 cents.


I could easily provide you with a page long list of links to threads where people have argued and, what's worse, screamed and cried, when I explained my point of view and it led to a reasonable conclusion that they didn't want to see. They don't argue and scream and cry about those issues anymore because SE has proven them wrong. Not me...SE. I attempted to explain and discuss and it went nowhere. I'm not wasting time explaining things to ignorant people who are just going to gloss over it and pretend like they have a leg to stand on. People say they want the truth, but they can't handle the truth. If you can't handle a direct statement of opposition to your ideas that's YOUR problem, not mine.

Edit: Note that it's apparently okay for you to label me an "attention *****" but I'm a horrible person if I were to put the shoe on the other foot. Keep that in mind, especailly when you follow such a label with an accusation of hypocrisy.

Edited, May 29th 2010 11:09am by Aurelius
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