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Moving from Alpha to BetaFollow

#52 May 30 2010 at 11:04 PM Rating: Default
ascorbic wrote:
So we'll be seeing a revamped combat system when Beta hits. Cool. And what we've seen so far isn't necessarily representative of what they've been working on. Cool. And you have no further information.

And so now you're arguing over the semantics of "tweak" versus "revamp", "action mash-up" versus "boring", "cerebral" versus "mindless"......

I know it's been a slow news week, but come on people...



If you're going to cry that I'm mean, don't come to threads and be critical for the reasonable conversations that I'm trying to have. If you don't like the topic or the conversation, move on. The more you guys whine, the more apt I will be to simply say ***** it and go back to saying what I REALLY think, so decide for yourself if flapping your yap justifies the consequences.
#53 May 31 2010 at 3:27 AM Rating: Decent
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The trend?? who cares about trend man..people don't want creativity and change anymore? If you've seen what I've seen from the combat system so far I don't know how you can say its slow (apart from the charge up in there) - and aside from lag issues the combat flowed well and it kept you engaged and kept you choosing attacks constantly. If anything they really just need to take the charge off (which I think that's what they'll do)...anyway, SE hasn't been known to go with the trends. If everyone does the same thing there is nothing left to look forward to, just the same games with a different skin (this sentence has been beaten to death all around the internet and its the most truth anyone can say). The battle system may speed up, but don't expect twitch combat in a game developed for group play aside solo play...we'll see in time I guess, 'til then, take care.
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#54 May 31 2010 at 8:49 AM Rating: Default
SolidMack wrote:
The trend?? who cares about trend man..people don't want creativity and change anymore?


Not if it means the game isn't fun.

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If you've seen what I've seen from the combat system so far I don't know how you can say its slow (apart from the charge up in there) - and aside from lag issues the combat flowed well and it kept you engaged and kept you choosing attacks constantly. If anything they really just need to take the charge off (which I think that's what they'll do)...anyway, SE hasn't been known to go with the trends.


All of FFXIV as its shaping up says SE is perfectly willing to go with the trends.

Quote:
If everyone does the same thing there is nothing left to look forward to, just the same games with a different skin (this sentence has been beaten to death all around the internet and its the most truth anyone can say). The battle system may speed up, but don't expect twitch combat in a game developed for group play aside solo play...we'll see in time I guess, 'til then, take care.


I've demonstrated time and again that I have a better idea of what to expect than most people here. I'm not trying to invalidate your opinion, simply making sure you're not overlooking the facts. Please don't get your hopes up based on your interpretation of what you've seen and heard. You're likely to just magnify the disappointment.
#55 May 31 2010 at 9:40 AM Rating: Good
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Been a while since I posted, lots of tough guys showing up, lol.

Anyway, I personally didn't read anything stating that the battle system is slow for any other reason aside from the stability of the server. It's also been brought to my attention that the time between moves should be at 1 second, compared to WoWs 1.5 or 1.7 seconds in between moves. The pace of battle is actually supposed to be faster than WoWs. You also have to take into consideration that the current curve in place is one of two. The second they will be implementing shortly, and then from there you can cry about what you don't like. (NEW curve, not revamped, fixed, etc. Something NEW that they already had planned.) I mean, the DEVs said it themselves, the flow of battle is supposed to be a lot faster than what players are currently experiencing, and they are working on getting it there.

I'm anxious to see if this remains Alpha Test 7 now, or if they're going into "Alpha 2/Beta 1". They can easily be calling this Test 7 something else, but this is like the second or third Test 7 already with no change to name. I'd expect the whole new ability curve to maybe take effect on the next test, depending on what they decide to name it.

The battle system is still a bit slow, but it was running a lot smoother/faster in the last couple of tests. Don't confuse new ability curve with new battle system, because that isn't what I mean. Battle system will remain the same, because honestly, there's no problems with it, the speed just needs to be smoother, which they are working on. The new curve will introduce a different ability tree to work with, and from there, SE will choose which of the two are working better for the players. Just don't forget that attack time in XIV should be faster than WoWs, so just think about how much lag testers are experiencing right now >.<

Also, instead of posting stupidities on the DEV Forums (IE: Who likes pie? (as a topic), people should actually do what they're there for e.e That would help things a bit I suppose.

(No issues with NDA because I AM NOT a tester. Information obtained is authentic.)

If you'd like to join my FFXIV Blast that is updated during, and after tests, message me.

Relax guys, the game is looking good so far. Stop crying about the battle system, it's been said it's going to be fixed. Test the other things in the world for now, and go to the areas you can still access before Mobs can aggro on the next test.

See you all in a few months, lol.

Edited, May 31st 2010 11:42am by Skeptic
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#56 May 31 2010 at 1:23 PM Rating: Decent
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Please don't get your hopes up based on your interpretation of what you've seen and heard. You're likely to just magnify the disappointment.


How so? haha. I know exactly what to expect because I've seen it and I've read about it and I will probably see it and read about a million times more from now 'til the game is finally released. I never get disappointed, you don't have to worry about me. I would say to you that you need to be more open minded about things - you say that SE is doing this and this as if you're working for them yourself.

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All of FFXIV as its shaping up says SE is perfectly willing to go with the trends.


A hot bar makes the game trendy? and I'm not saying SE shouldn't borrow from other MMOs but I am saying that they should change things as they see fit. IF you're looking for quick gameplay such as that seen in almost every MMO today I would imagine you're the one whose going to be disappointed in the end. I know SE said they have a new combat system "built from ground up" but do you really think a combat system is built overnight for them to ditch one they've probably worked on for majority of the development period, tweaking, reprogramming, and making it work??? I highly doubt it. We'll see some changes but they wont be as big as you think they will be and nothing about the combat system so far suggests SE is going with the trends because a single fight is still taking some time to finish.
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#57 May 31 2010 at 2:54 PM Rating: Default
SolidMack wrote:
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Please don't get your hopes up based on your interpretation of what you've seen and heard. You're likely to just magnify the disappointment.


How so? haha. I know exactly what to expect because I've seen it and I've read about it and I will probably see it and read about a million times more from now 'til the game is finally released. I never get disappointed, you don't have to worry about me. I would say to you that you need to be more open minded about things - you say that SE is doing this and this as if you're working for them yourself.


Naw, I just read what they say.

Quote:
Quote:
All of FFXIV as its shaping up says SE is perfectly willing to go with the trends.


A hot bar makes the game trendy? and I'm not saying SE shouldn't borrow from other MMOs but I am saying that they should change things as they see fit. IF you're looking for quick gameplay such as that seen in almost every MMO today I would imagine you're the one whose going to be disappointed in the end. I know SE said they have a new combat system "built from ground up" but do you really think a combat system is built overnight for them to ditch one they've probably worked on for majority of the development period, tweaking, reprogramming, and making it work??? I highly doubt it. We'll see some changes but they wont be as big as you think they will be and nothing about the combat system so far suggests SE is going with the trends because a single fight is still taking some time to finish.


What part of the announcement where they said that the system in the alpha was not what they planned did you miss? It's been said in plain English that the system in the alpha was put together last minute because the one they wanted to use wasn't ready.

Edited, May 31st 2010 2:13pm by Aurelius
#58 May 31 2010 at 3:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Whatever the combat system is, I hope it's not too fast. I'm not a big fan of buttonmashers.
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#59 Jun 01 2010 at 12:39 AM Rating: Decent
Hopefully the speed will vary a lot depending on class and what abilities you use. BEcause I have to admit, I'm a fan of the faster combat button mashing not. :3
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#60 Jun 01 2010 at 1:41 AM Rating: Default
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What part of the announcement where they said that the system in the alpha was not what they planned did you miss? It's been said in plain English that the system in the alpha was put together last minute because the one they wanted to use wasn't ready.


Right...they said "be" and it "was"...right?? wrong. They didn't rub a magic lamp and ask the genie for a quickie combat system just so they get alpha going - they've been working on this system for the last 5 years since that is what you do when you work on a video game. So when they say it wasn't as intended I doubt they mean scratch it and start over, it means they'll tweak it and make it work as was intended....exactly what I have been saying in every post so far.
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#61 Jun 01 2010 at 1:50 AM Rating: Excellent
digitalcraft, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Hopefully the speed will vary a lot depending on class and what abilities you use. BEcause I have to admit, I'm a fan of the faster combat button mashing not. :3


Looking at some of the combat vids and trying to time swing to swing, I was seeing upwards of like 6 seconds with a sword. Sure, some of that could be due to the latency that's been mentioned... but I kinda think 6 seconds is a bit long.

I agree though, I don't want it to be a button-mash fest, but maybe like 4 seconds w/o haste? That doesn't seem too unreasonable.
#62 Jun 01 2010 at 2:22 AM Rating: Default
SolidMack wrote:
Quote:
What part of the announcement where they said that the system in the alpha was not what they planned did you miss? It's been said in plain English that the system in the alpha was put together last minute because the one they wanted to use wasn't ready.


Right...they said "be" and it "was"...right?? wrong. They didn't rub a magic lamp and ask the genie for a quickie combat system just so they get alpha going - they've been working on this system for the last 5 years since that is what you do when you work on a video game. So when they say it wasn't as intended I doubt they mean scratch it and start over, it means they'll tweak it and make it work as was intended....exactly what I have been saying in every post so far.


I've about had enough. This is what SE said in the Dengeki interview:

SE wrote:
HT: Komoto told the testers before alpha started that the tempo of battle is something we’re looking at. When beta test starts, we will be implementing a completely different battle system, practically remade from the ground up. We weren’t planning on using the current battle system in the first place, but we didn’t want players to wait until beta, so we explained the situation and opened the test.


That's exactly what I've been telling you, straight from SE's mouth. So now that you know that they've said it and it's been quoted directly in front of your face in plain english, will you kindly knock it off?
#63 Jun 01 2010 at 2:37 AM Rating: Decent
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That's exactly what I've been telling you, straight from SE's mouth. So now that you know that they've said it and it's been quoted directly in front of your face in plain english, will you kindly knock it off?


Knock it off? haha, I thought we were having a healthy argument, you were just too stubborn to see what I was saying. I recall someone told you to knock it off (in this topic or maybe in another one) and you told them to ***** off if they didn't like what you had to say...so how about you heed your own advice in this case. I have said repeatedly I know what SE said, but again, I'll bring up the point in time when SE said there is no typical leveling up system in this game and we all believed them then. It sure looks like SE doesn't know how to word their sentences properly, and all I'm saying, "practically built from the ground up" doesn't literally mean built from the ground up. You can't seem to grasp this and you also seem to think the combat system they have in place just happened on its own for them to dispose of it.
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#64 Jun 01 2010 at 8:00 AM Rating: Default
SolidMack wrote:
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That's exactly what I've been telling you, straight from SE's mouth. So now that you know that they've said it and it's been quoted directly in front of your face in plain english, will you kindly knock it off?


Knock it off? haha, I thought we were having a healthy argument, you were just too stubborn to see what I was saying. I recall someone told you to knock it off (in this topic or maybe in another one) and you told them to ***** off if they didn't like what you had to say...so how about you heed your own advice in this case. I have said repeatedly I know what SE said, but again, I'll bring up the point in time when SE said there is no typical leveling up system in this game and we all believed them then. It sure looks like SE doesn't know how to word their sentences properly, and all I'm saying, "practically built from the ground up" doesn't literally mean built from the ground up. You can't seem to grasp this and you also seem to think the combat system they have in place just happened on its own for them to dispose of it.


You're using a poor reference from what they said a year ago for a game very much still in development to bolster a poor argument for what they've said about what will be happening within the next few weeks. Not sure why you think it's a relevant comparison, but I reckon it's going to be awfully embarassing for you when the beta starts. I guess I just have this naive hope that sooner or later, folks like you are going to get tired of being wrong.
#65 Jun 01 2010 at 9:18 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Looking at some of the combat vids and trying to time swing to swing, I was seeing upwards of like 6 seconds with a sword. Sure, some of that could be due to the latency that's been mentioned... but I kinda think 6 seconds is a bit long.


I counted my speed with sword (and g axe) and it came down to about 4 seconds or so.

With the hitting animation excluded I had to wait around 2 seocnds before I could hit again.
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#66 Jun 01 2010 at 10:04 AM Rating: Good
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I don't know which video you saw or what weapon they used, but 2-4 seconds does not seem bad at all. It's very much like FFXI if not a bit faster, again depending on the weapon.
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#67 Jun 01 2010 at 10:56 PM Rating: Decent
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I guess I just have this naive hope that sooner or later, folks like you are going to get tired of being wrong.


People like me? (well your highness) people like me have this naive hope that people like you grow up eventually because its evident from your many posts on ZAM you're good at nothing but arguing with people online...I haven't seen you just have a regular conversation and everyone is always wrong and you're always right...am I in the ball park? I probably am...I think you need to be less stubborn and atleast try and see what I'm saying..my argument with what SE said about the leveling system isn't "the nail in the coffin" but it was just an example and whether it was a year ago or a minute ago is irrelevant.
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#68 Jun 01 2010 at 11:02 PM Rating: Decent
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I don't know which video you saw or what weapon they used, but 2-4 seconds does not seem bad at all.


Some people don't see that the flow of battle is actually good...but the people asking for a "faster battle system" want the mob to drop dead the second your sword touches it...the flow of battle has been good in FFXIV, no slower than WoW was at low levels, but because the fights take some time people call it slow.
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#69The One and Only Aurelius, Posted: Jun 01 2010 at 11:30 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I've never seen a single comment about how long it takes to kill things. All I've seen are people saying the delay between attacks is too long.
#70 Jun 01 2010 at 11:41 PM Rating: Default
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Lol this has turned into "who gets the last word in..." well I'm gonna stop here because I don't want to annoy other ZAM forumers any longer with this argument.
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#71 Jun 02 2010 at 7:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Has there been anything announced about this new battle system? If not, I hope melee is going to work similar to some of the action games of old, like NES's Astyanax. Replace the action meter (which limits when you can attack) with a finite meter that gauges how effective (maybe 5% up to 100%) that strike is going to be. That way, the player is free to decide when to attack whenever they want (hit now for a lighter strike, or wait to do more damage on the strike) without relying on a pure button mash. It would also open up new tactics for different scenarios (rapid, weaker strikes to take advantage of extra damage-per-strike enchantments; slower, fully-charged strikes against enemies with XX damage resistance per hit; etc).

Again, I don't know how this compares with what they already have or what they have in store. It's just an idea that sprung up on me at the Mt Dew machine this morning.
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#72 Jun 02 2010 at 9:20 AM Rating: Decent
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Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
digitalcraft, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Hopefully the speed will vary a lot depending on class and what abilities you use. BEcause I have to admit, I'm a fan of the faster combat button mashing not. :3


Looking at some of the combat vids and trying to time swing to swing, I was seeing upwards of like 6 seconds with a sword. Sure, some of that could be due to the latency that's been mentioned... but I kinda think 6 seconds is a bit long.

I agree though, I don't want it to be a button-mash fest, but maybe like 4 seconds w/o haste? That doesn't seem too unreasonable.


I don't know if it's representative of the real times, but I just went back and took another look at that Pooky Poo justin.tv leak. At 29:24, Thrust (I'm assuming a standard polearm attack) took about 3~3.2 seconds to refill its meter. Unless I'm missing something, that doesn't seem too bad to me.
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#73 Jun 02 2010 at 10:44 AM Rating: Decent
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Guys you need to stop watching old videos IE Pooky Poo. That was FIRST Test, lol. A lot has changed since then..trust. They're working on it. Stop fighting about who's right or wrong because honestly it won't hold back what SE does. Refer to my previous post for updated info.
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#74 Jun 02 2010 at 10:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Skeptic wrote:
Guys you need to stop watching old videos IE Pooky Poo. That was FIRST Test, lol. A lot has changed since then..trust. They're working on it. Stop fighting about who's right or wrong because honestly it won't hold back what SE does. Refer to my previous post for updated info.


Now ease up there, Hoss. I referenced the video (cause that's the only reference point I got right now), but notice that I'm not taking any offense at the battle speeds. Don't mix me in with them feuding up there, cause I got nothing to do with it. I'm just making comments on what I'm seeing and that I'm hoping for, k?

Edited, Jun 2nd 2010 1:02pm by PLDXavier
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#75 Jun 02 2010 at 7:18 PM Rating: Good
Er, I hope it's ok to post this. If not, let me know Admins and I'll remove it (or you could just make it go away, w/e).

Quote:
Beta Test and Server Expansion

Thanks to the efforts of all our testers, we have received a wealth of invaluable feedback and information regarding server balancing and gameplay.

The problems we encountered with the servers were more numerous than we originally anticipated. We were, however, able to make improvements throughout the course of the alpha test phase, and as a result we can now head into beta testing under far better conditions and with a concrete grasp of what areas still require attention.

We also took all your opinions and suggestions to heart, and have incorporated a number of alterations into the upcoming beta, from complete overhauls to minor tweaks. Testers can expect to see significant changes to areas in which we received the greatest amount of feedback, including, but not limited to, the user interface and battle system.

Considerable changes to the server setup and gameplay will continue to be made. These will not be worked into upcoming alpha tests, but will instead be implemented for the beta test phase.

We will, however, be introducing a number of new Worlds throughout the remainder of the alpha test. This will be a gradual process as we work to ensure that no connection issues arise while multiple game servers are running simultaneously.

Unfortunately, a World selection feature will not yet be available. We understand the inconvenience this causes, as many of you no doubt wish to create characters on the least-populated Worlds or on the same Worlds as your friends. For now we apologize for not having this option ready, and ask for your understanding and patience for the time being.

Your feedback has already contributed greatly to bettering FINAL FANTASY XIV, and we are striving to incorporate as much of it as possible into the beta and release versions of the game. We welcome all new testers, and hope that they can work together with our “old guard” to continue providing useful and enlightening feedback.

Enjoy your time in Eorzea!

Final Fantasy XIV Director


I take no credit for finding this. Certainly wasn't sent to me, as I'm not one of those lucky testers, lol.
#76 Jun 02 2010 at 10:02 PM Rating: Good
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Thanks for post this Osarion! Nice to see what SE has to say ^^
#77 Jun 20 2010 at 2:46 AM Rating: Default
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Some people don't see that the flow of battle is actually good...but the people asking for a "faster battle system" want the mob to drop dead the second your sword touches it...the flow of battle has been good in FFXIV, no slower than WoW was at low levels, but because the fights take some time people call it slow.


No it can drop dead in the same amount of time it took during alpha, I just want to have things to do while I'm killing it rather than just hitting a button every 4 seconds.
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#78 Jun 20 2010 at 10:55 AM Rating: Good
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Unfortunately, a World selection feature will not yet be available. We understand the inconvenience this causes, as many of you no doubt wish to create characters on the least-populated Worlds or on the same Worlds as your friends. For now we apologize for not having this option ready, and ask for your understanding and patience for the time being.


I'm glad to hear they're working on this. Getting friends all on the same server could be a nightmare with no world selection feature. I'll be very happy if this makes it into the final version at launch.
#79 Jun 20 2010 at 11:00 AM Rating: Good
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I'm glad to hear they're working on this. Getting friends all on the same server could be a nightmare with no world selection feature. I'll be very happy if this makes it into the final version at launch.


I really hope by launch, you can just pick your server, instead of messing around with world passes.
#80 Jun 20 2010 at 11:56 AM Rating: Default
Lamnethx of the Seven Seas wrote:
Quote:


I'm glad to hear they're working on this. Getting friends all on the same server could be a nightmare with no world selection feature. I'll be very happy if this makes it into the final version at launch.


I really hope by launch, you can just pick your server, instead of messing around with world passes.


They'll have it. It's just not functional in the alpha atm.
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