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Male miqo'te!Follow

#52 May 31 2010 at 10:44 PM Rating: Good
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wouldn't want to wake up to find Tanaka standing over me, either.


::laughs::
Oh dear god, mental image.
#53 May 31 2010 at 10:46 PM Rating: Decent
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The main thing they need to do now is get the server issues cleared up so they can start the beta and get a broader spectrum of feedback coming in.


I agree, Once they get past the server stability issue SE and players can focus on the game and the feedback of the players. Didn't they fix the problem once before? or Are they still working on it?
#54 May 31 2010 at 10:59 PM Rating: Default
Ruam wrote:
Quote:
The main thing they need to do now is get the server issues cleared up so they can start the beta and get a broader spectrum of feedback coming in.


I agree, Once they get past the server stability issue SE and players can focus on the game and the feedback of the players. Didn't they fix the problem once before? or Are they still working on it?


Testers were reporting signs of improvement for a time, although there were still issues. As it turns out, that improvement was likely due in large part to reduced server load caused by testers not logging in for scheduled tests. Shortly after testers started reporting significant improvements with the lag issues, it got bad again. I know from experience in other MMOs that sometimes the cause of the lag can be difficult to track down. I'm sure SE will get it sooner or later, but I'm also sure most of us would prefer that it be sooner rather than later ;D
#55 May 31 2010 at 11:00 PM Rating: Good
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Maybe you could quote the post where someone said that SE doesn't want to hear about it? I'm not seeing anything to that effect anywhere in this thread. At all. I've seen posters here insinuate that they...the posters...are not interested in hearing about it, but we're not SE. Your argument would likely benefit from addressing what has been said and not fabricating things to make your opposition look bad.


LOL now I have opposition simply for asking a question and reiterating that S-E has said they want to hear from everyone. Man you REALLY are having some issues with this.

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Developing games is not a democracy. It's a dictatorship.


Is the post I responded to in the first place, it's the post I have been referring to, and I'm sure you will come back with "But that doesn't outright SAY S-E doesn't want to hear about it!" And you know what? It totally does not matter. It was implied. I'm sorry if you do not understand the concept of analysis, but I'm not going to be the one to take the time to explain it to you.

I suggest you calm down and stop trying to deflect my post into something it isn't. I'll repeat myself here in case you did not understand me the first time:

Quote:

Square-Enix has said multiple times now that they want to hear what everyone has to say about XIV. Just because you have no interest in playing a male miqo'te/female roegadyn/female highlander doesn't mean that no one else has that interest. Obviously many people do. Square-Enix wants to hear from them as much as they want to hear from you so all this weird talk about a corporation being ANY kind of a governmental body is just silly.

They're a corporation that is reaching out to their fanbase during development of a game. The fanbase is responding. Why is this such a bad thing? Why do anti-gender equality these people who are highly vocal about not wanting equal gender options for reasons entirely unrelated to gender come in to these threads every time swaggering around like they know exactly what S-E does and does not want to hear about?


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#56 May 31 2010 at 11:09 PM Rating: Default
Andephyne wrote:
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Maybe you could quote the post where someone said that SE doesn't want to hear about it? I'm not seeing anything to that effect anywhere in this thread. At all. I've seen posters here insinuate that they...the posters...are not interested in hearing about it, but we're not SE. Your argument would likely benefit from addressing what has been said and not fabricating things to make your opposition look bad.


LOL now I have opposition simply for asking a question and reiterating that S-E has said they want to hear from everyone. Man you REALLY are having some issues with this.


And nobody has said that SE doesn't want to hear about it. You're misinterpreting the democracy/dictatorship reference, and you're picking a fight you won't win.
#57 May 31 2010 at 11:13 PM Rating: Decent
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you're picking a fight you won't win.


No sweetie, you're picking a fight that no one else has any interest in participating in. :)
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#58 May 31 2010 at 11:24 PM Rating: Default
Andephyne wrote:
Quote:
you're picking a fight you won't win.


No sweetie, you're picking a fight that no one else has any interest in participating in. :)


Right. Because I'm the one labeling people as anti-gender equality and ******** up the thread with useless nonsense. Sorry 'bout that. I forgot that my part of the world is the only one where if you're going to level slanderous allegations, you can expect a response that is, in its most mild form, intended to challenge the veracity of your statements. If you aren't going to stand by your statements or retract them when it's made apparent that they're inappropriate, don't post.
#59 May 31 2010 at 11:53 PM Rating: Good
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Andephyne wrote:
Quote:
you're picking a fight you won't win.


No sweetie, you're picking a fight that no one else has any interest in participating in. :)


He picks fights with **** near everyone, I think he lacks proper attention in the real world or something. He just likes to fight with people and try to win arguments that he creates himself that don't need to be made. It's honestly best just to ignore him like most of us do.

Edited, May 31st 2010 10:54pm by EndlessJourney
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#60 Jun 01 2010 at 12:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Please play nice people. And don't break the newbies. It's hard to get replacements these days.
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#61 Jun 01 2010 at 1:56 AM Rating: Good
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
Please play nice people. And don't break the newbies. It's hard to get replacements these days.


She seems to be handling it quite well, lol Smiley: grin




I don't have any plans to play Male Miqo or Female Roeg, but I don't see what the big deal is if they were added. I guess time will tell?

That's all I have to say about that... /Forrest
#62 Jun 01 2010 at 5:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Honestly I think it's more a "what people can't have, they want" thing. If they would make the male models more like Thundercats then twink kitty thingies, I might one myself :o
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#63 Jun 01 2010 at 10:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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Andephyne wrote:
Quote:
you're picking a fight you won't win.


No sweetie, you're picking a fight that no one else has any interest in participating in. :)


Arguing with Aurelius is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. He's going to enjoy it a lot more than you are and it'll never come to an end. You're better off just walking away.

I agree with you though. Some people find the idea of a feline race interesting and would like to play as one without having to play as a female. Any opposition to that simply comes from people taking pleasure in denying other people want they want. It's not like they are banding together and demanding the addition of a completely new race.

The quote in the original post seems to indicate there is a possiblity that they will be playable in the future. I don't see what is wrong with discussing that possibility. If others don't care about male miqo'te then they should just move on, unless they feel it will somehow detract from their FFXIV experience.

Edited, Jun 1st 2010 12:27pm by Calispel
#64 Jun 01 2010 at 10:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Calispel wrote:
If others don't care about male miqo'te then they should just move on, unless they feel it will somehow detract from their FFXIV experience.

I'm one of those that don't care, as I've pointed out a number of times in this thread already. If they add them, great. If they don't add them, that's fine, too.

My problem is with those people that are so intent on having male Miqo'te as playable characters that the other people who are either ambivalent or opposed to the idea are perceived as automatically wrong. I've posted three other times in this thread that I don't care if they're added, and all three posts have been rated down. I'm not the only one this has happened to, either. On the other hand, the people that have stated they want male Miqo'tes in FFXIV have all been rated up to Excellent. (EDIT: the OP is apparently an exception.) Why should a portion of us be punished for stating a dissenting opinion?

As for telling us to move on simply because we disagree with the subject at hand, that's not going to happen. I'm not saying this to be antagonistic; it's simply a statement of fact.

Edited, Jun 1st 2010 11:43am by Ralrra
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#65 Jun 01 2010 at 10:55 AM Rating: Excellent
Zemzelette wrote:
Quote:
wouldn't want to wake up to find Tanaka standing over me, either.


::laughs::
Oh dear god, mental image.



I've heard this is how people are notified of alpha\beta acceptance. Tanaka comes to your bedroom when you're asleep, wearing a huge fluffy pink tutu, and smacks you over the head with a Chocobo wand. The E-mails are just a ploy.
#66 Jun 01 2010 at 10:56 AM Rating: Decent
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Why should a portion of us be punished for stating a dissenting opinion?


It's not that we are wrong, we just disagree with the majority's opinion.

That's how the rating system has always worked. No matter how good argument you might have, if you disagree with the majority you're getting the red button.

What irritates me is those people who put the...cat on a pedestal. It's like the single most important thing SE should be working on, and it'll be mentioned every time anything even closely related info is released.

It is almost unbelievable how gameplay issues and concerns are in the shadow while features like male cat or character customization options are discussed over and over again. Are the players really this shallow? SE has a lot more important issues to take care of, and we have a lot more important issues to be concerned about. An additional gender for a race is like, the last thing any of us should be hoping for.


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#67Frebaut, Posted: Jun 01 2010 at 11:13 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) This topic is so lame.. Its the same as wanted an invisible man to play as...
#68 Jun 01 2010 at 11:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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It is almost unbelievable how gameplay issues and concerns are in the shadow while features like male cat or character customization options are discussed over and over again. Are the players really this shallow? SE has a lot more important issues to take care of, and we have a lot more important issues to be concerned about. An additional gender for a race is like, the last thing any of us should be hoping for
.

Probably the most important thing right now is server stability.
But really, does your average gamer have enough background in network administration that we can keep a thread going?

Aesthetic things are just really easy conversation topics.


#69 Jun 01 2010 at 11:28 AM Rating: Excellent
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Frebaut wrote:
This topic is so lame.. Its the same as wanted an invisible man to play as...


What is this I don't even

Quote:
It is almost unbelievable how gameplay issues and concerns are in the shadow while features like male cat or character customization options are discussed over and over again. Are the players really this shallow? SE has a lot more important issues to take care of, and we have a lot more important issues to be concerned about. An additional gender for a race is like, the last thing any of us should be hoping for.


Maybe that has something to do with how concrete and identifiable an issue like Male Mi'qote is. It's easy to note that they're not in the game, and arguing for their inclusion is a pretty clear-cut point, as well. When it comes to gameplay, there aren't many issues to pin-down yet. We don't yet know what it's going to be like, (SE seems to be completely overhauling the current system, too) so we can't easily single out concerns with it.

EDIT: Zem said it more succinctly. Male Mi'qote is easy conversation.

Edited, Jun 1st 2010 1:30pm by Eske
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#70 Jun 01 2010 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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This!
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
Paid race changes are a cash cow for MMO developers. Wada says micro transactions, a small but dedicated group of XI -> XIV fans screams, "MALE MIQ'OTE PL0X!!", Wada says, "Cha-ching!!"
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#71 Jun 01 2010 at 11:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Aesthetic things are just really easy conversation topics.


Yeah, I think you're right.

I do think some people take it too far though >_>.
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#72 Jun 01 2010 at 12:24 PM Rating: Decent
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I think there are just as many people who want a few completely new races as there are people who want male Miqo'te. If SE added male Miqo'te and not any new races, I'd imagine those people would be more upset that one thing was added but not the other. And the same goes for the other way around, right?

I don't completely understand the debate. Do most people want male Miqo'te because they want to specifically see cat men? Or do they just want to have more feminine men? If it's mostly the latter, then would everyone be just as happy if they released a new male-only race that looked more feminine?

Mithra and Miqo'te don't look the same this time around, remember! Female Miqo'te's face and body shape doesn't vary from the normal Hyur, so I wouldn't imagine it would be any different for male Miqo'te, unless it's just the idea the ears and tail give you.
#73 Jun 01 2010 at 12:31 PM Rating: Default
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I Think even if they did come out with male Miqo'te, I would probably still play a female, Yeah I'm one of thoes guys who would rather play a female character. More becasue If im going to stare at a game all day I can watch a female at same time.. Or might make 1 male 1 female and have them be twins :P
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#74 Jun 01 2010 at 12:34 PM Rating: Default
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I don't completely understand the debate. Do most people want male Miqo'te because they want to specifically see cat men? Or do they just want to have more feminine men? If it's mostly the latter, then would everyone be just as happy if they released a new male-only race that looked more feminine?


They've wanted it for so long, that right now they want it just cause.

It's so easy to fool people with aesthetics. Korean MMO's have done it as long as I remember. Countless Korean MMO's have failed in the past- and still we see people who think TERA and Blade & Soul are the next "big thing". "It looks so good!! And it's like, revolutionary! Did you see the character customization!?"

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#75 Jun 01 2010 at 2:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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I don't completely understand the debate. Do most people want male Miqo'te because they want to specifically see cat men? Or do they just want to have more feminine men? If it's mostly the latter, then would everyone be just as happy if they released a new male-only race that looked more feminine?


Well, I can only speak for myself.
I appreciate the bishonen nod, I'm looking for an instance of player demand solidifying in the gamesphere, and I'm tired of Tolkien race design in general. So, either case is perfectly relevant to my interests.

But that's all very complicated.
I'm sure your average player is probably motivated by simple unquantifiable Like.





Edited, Jun 1st 2010 4:50pm by Zemzelette
#76 Jun 01 2010 at 2:56 PM Rating: Default
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I think the orgional debate took place in FFxi because players ,(I could be wrong in this its been quite a while since I played 11) Wanted the bonus that mithra had to stats but didn't want to play a female character. If the Miqo'te have specific bonus's that people want but again dont want female character... is this what the argument is about here as well? Feel free to correct me if im wrong.
#77 Jun 01 2010 at 3:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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Puppy1 wrote:
I think the orgional debate took place in FFxi because players ,(I could be wrong in this its been quite a while since I played 11) Wanted the bonus that mithra had to stats but didn't want to play a female character. If the Miqo'te have specific bonus's that people want but again dont want female character... is this what the argument is about here as well? Feel free to correct me if im wrong.


It has got nothing to do with stats. Some people just want to be a cat-man.
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#78 Jun 01 2010 at 3:25 PM Rating: Excellent
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Heheh.. IF they do let people become male Miqo'te.. why can i see alot of people running around going, thunder THUNDER THUNDER!!
I guess your right though, cat-people in general are kinda cool.

#79 Jun 01 2010 at 3:40 PM Rating: Decent
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I would totally pay cash if that was the only way to change race to something like...bangaa, or even gria (as long as there was a male version). But I wouldn't pay for a male miqote.

Oddly enough, if a kitten dies from saying male miqote...it could be that very male miqote you always wanted that dies (fills quota for amount of dead kittens in a day).
#80 Jun 01 2010 at 5:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Yogtheterrible wrote:
I would totally pay cash if that was the only way to change race to something like...bangaa, or even gria (as long as there was a male version). But I wouldn't pay for a male miqote.

Oddly enough, if a kitten dies from saying male miqote...it could be that very male miqote you always wanted that dies (fills quota for amount of dead kittens in a day).


I honestly hope there is no Cash Shop in any form...if the game was built to have male Mi'qote, let me be one without having to pay you extra!!! I'm arguing this for more than male mi'qote...if there was a part of the game that was left out or put in as an afterthough (meaning not part of a major expansion) for the sole purpose of creating extra revenue it looks downright greedy and unethical IMO. I do not mind paying extra for planned expansions with added content/extra races.
#81 Jun 01 2010 at 8:25 PM Rating: Decent
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It has got nothing to do with stats. Some people just want to be a cat-man.


I think it does. Having the second largest mana pool after taru, and more Dex if you want to play melee. And not having to look like a taru. So i think the stats was one of the reason why ppl did choose the mithra.

Edited, Jun 1st 2010 10:26pm by Gurlokovich
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#82 Jun 01 2010 at 8:36 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
A part of me resents the additional commercialization of gaming that is starting to unfold, but at the same time development budgets for cutting edge games are rivaling that of a lot of big budget Hollywood films and that money has to come from somewhere.


I would still rather have great, 16-bit games like FFVI and Chrono Trigger, or old-style sprites like Final Fantasy Tactics than the many games today that are barely more than playable movies with a seven-hour plot (that still manages to contradict itself).

I just hope that once game companies finally make graphics that look as realistic as can be, they go back to focusing on plot and gameplay. The money only has to come from somewhere if they waste millions upon millions of dollars on superficial graphics.
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#83 Jun 01 2010 at 9:08 PM Rating: Decent
Ralrra wrote:
I've posted three other times in this thread that I don't care if they're added, and all three posts have been rated down. I'm not the only one this has happened to, either. On the other hand, the people that have stated they want male Miqo'tes in FFXIV have all been rated up to Excellent. (EDIT: the OP is apparently an exception.) Why should a portion of us be punished for stating a dissenting opinion?

As for telling us to move on simply because we disagree with the subject at hand, that's not going to happen. I'm not saying this to be antagonistic; it's simply a statement of fact.


People here resent facts that don't coincide with what they want to hear, and in the absence of a functional argument they resort to rate camping. It's been happening here since day one.
#84 Jun 02 2010 at 12:27 AM Rating: Good
Ralrra wrote:
Calispel wrote:
If others don't care about male miqo'te then they should just move on, unless they feel it will somehow detract from their FFXIV experience.

I'm one of those that don't care, as I've pointed out a number of times in this thread already. If they add them, great. If they don't add them, that's fine, too.

My problem is with those people that are so intent on having male Miqo'te as playable characters that the other people who are either ambivalent or opposed to the idea are perceived as automatically wrong. I've posted three other times in this thread that I don't care if they're added, and all three posts have been rated down. I'm not the only one this has happened to, either. On the other hand, the people that have stated they want male Miqo'tes in FFXIV have all been rated up to Excellent. (EDIT: the OP is apparently an exception.) Why should a portion of us be punished for stating a dissenting opinion?

As for telling us to move on simply because we disagree with the subject at hand, that's not going to happen. I'm not saying this to be antagonistic; it's simply a statement of fact.

Edited, Jun 1st 2010 11:43am by Ralrra



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#85 Jun 02 2010 at 3:29 AM Rating: Excellent
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For my own part I'd love SE to announce that at launch there will be at least one new character option. It wont change my own character plans unless it's something entirely new and interesting, but I would appreciate it as a sign of real change and because it will add something very new to the environment I'll be running around in.

When the race options for XIV were announced I was pretty dissapointed, and I was not alone. XIV is supposed to be a new game, with a few nods to XI to help (re)engage the existing fanbase. When this translated into "exactly the same race and gender options as XI" with some fancy new names and a splash of remodelling, I strongly felt that SE had missed a trick. They have a huge franchise to pick races from, but they simply copy-pasted their other MMO mold.

I can see why having the same options can appeal - I imagine many people will recreate their old XI characters on XIV, and brand new players most likely wont care - but in terms of breathing new life into the franchise it was not the most inspiring move, and remains one of the few dissapointments I harbour.

The character options we have been shown are not going to be taken away, of course, so the only way to make a fundamental departure to this would be to add something new. There is a practical development limitation to doing that, as each option is another shape that new armour must be modelled for, but it is still a possibility, and male Mithra/Miqo'te would undoubtedly be a popular choice (and in terms of development effort one of the easiest if they already have the base model for them).

It would certainly be an option I would appreciate. I don't want Eorzea to feel like a different part of Vana'diel. I want it to feel like an entirely new world, so having the same tired old female-only-cat-race-dynamic-thingy carried over is not helpful in that respect. It's not just about what race/gender I will be playing; it's about the people around me too. The people I hang around with in-game define the environment far more than any other aspect of it, and if they all look mostly the same as they did on XI then it's not going to feel that much different once the newness of the scenery has worn off.

The extra character option debate has been going pretty much since XI began, and it is a debate that has never died away and never will (even if new character options are added). This is testament to the fact that people do care about it and always will. That will never change and you could argue that there's no point adding anything for that reason. But I would still appreciate a small change in XIV, if only because it would be a change. The fact that it would thrill a lot of people and generate even more excitement in the game is a nice bonus that I could certainly live with too.

Edit: Typos.

Edited, Jun 2nd 2010 7:21am by Gii
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#86 Jun 02 2010 at 4:58 AM Rating: Good
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Gii wrote:
For my own part I'd love SE to announce that at launch there will be at least one new character option. It wont change my own character plans unless it's something entirely new and interesting, but I would appreciate it as a sign of real change and because it will add something very new to environment I'll be running around in.

When the race options for XIV were announced I was pretty dissapointed, and I was not alone. XIV is supposed to be a new game, with a few nods to XI to help (re)engage the existing fanbase. When this translated into "exactly the same race and gender options as XI" with some fancy new names and a splash of remodelling, I strongly felt that SE had missed a trick. They have a huge franchise to pick races from, but they simply copy-pasted their other MMO mold.

I can see why having the same options can appeal - I imagine many people will recreate their old XI characters on XIV, and brand new players most likely wont care - but in terms of breathing new life into the franchise it was not the most inspiring move, and remains one of the few dissapointments I harbour.

The character options we have been shown are not going to be taken away, of course, so the only way to make a fundamental departure to this would be to add something new. There is a practical development limitation to doing that, as each option is another shape that new armour must be modelled for, but it is still a possibility, and male Mithra/Miqo'te would undoubtedly be a popular choice (and in terms of development effort one of the easiest if they already have the base model for them).

It would certainly be an option I would appreciate. I don't want Eorzea to feel like a different part of Vana'diel. I want it to feel like an entirely new world, so having the same tired old female-only-cat-race-dynamic-thingy carried over is not helpful in that respect. It's not just about what race/gender I will be playing; it's about the people around me too. The people I hang around with in-game define the environment far more than any other aspect of it, and if they all look mostly the same as they did on XI then it's not going to feel that much different once the newness of the scenery has worn off.

The extra character option debate has been going pretty much since XI began, and it is a debate that has never died away and never will (even if new character options are added). This is testament to the fact that people do care about it and always will. That will never change and you could argue that there's no point adding anything for that reason. But I would still appreciate a small change in XIV, if only because it would be a change. The fact that it would thrill a lot of people and generate even more excitment in the game is a nice bonus that I could certainly live with too.


I think this was spot on for how I feel, phrased in a way that I could never have done, so thanks for that.
#87 Jun 02 2010 at 6:57 AM Rating: Default
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For my own part I'd love SE to announce that at launch there will be at least one new character option. It wont change my own character plans unless it's something entirely new and interesting, but I would appreciate it as a sign of real change and because it will add something very new to the environment I'll be running around in.


I think this kind of mindset is quite disappointing.

Adding more character races is not anywhere near "a real change", how can anyone possibly say that? It is a new aesthetical feature, which is not a real change whatsoever.

But people always get fooled when the game promises "new character customization options", like with Aion. Players put way too much emphasis on fluff like that.

In a game, gameplay is what makes or breaks the deal. SE could very well use the same races, same setting, same music in XIV but if the gameplay is vastly different, nobody would call the game "a copy" of XI after playing it.

It is almost as silly as if somebody claimed that WoW is a copy of Warcraft 3.

Please, for my sanity's sake (kittens too), stop comparing aesthetical features to "real change". You could not be any more wrong. If I saw SE focus too much on making the graphics and races different, I would be disappointed. A new game with different story, lore, races, and art style but that copies XI's (or WoW's) gameplay to the point- that's a real change, eh?
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#88 Jun 02 2010 at 7:57 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hyanmen wrote:
Please, for my sanity's sake (kittens too), stop comparing aesthetical features to "real change". You could not be any more wrong. If I saw SE focus too much on making the graphics and races different, I would be disappointed. A new game with different story, lore, races, and art style but that copies XI's (or WoW's) gameplay to the point- that's a real change, eh?


This may be your opinion, but that in no way makes it fact.

Yes, game play is absolutely important - the game simply wont survive if it is bad. I wouldn't attempt to suggest otherwise. And yes, the gameplay of XIV does need to be different that XIs, or no amount of new makeup will change the fact that it's essentially the same game.

However, to be brutally honest, FFXI is far from an amazing game to play in my opinion (and this is the opinion of someone who loves that game). MMOs are immersive, social games. This is for many people part of the appeal. And that appeal is not just built on the mechanics of the game itself. It is in the detail. It is in the environment. It is in the people.

No single game "mechanic" in FFXI ever sent a shiver down my spine, but the first time I saw the owls in Carpenters Landing (the ones that look directly at you no matter where you stand) a spine shiver is exactly what I got. Not because they freaked me out, but because I appreciated that at least one person on the dev team put the effort into adding such a small and totally irrelevant feature.

The environment is what pulled me into FFXI, and it's one of the main factors that kept me there. I make no appology for wanting FFXIV to offer me a lovely new environment to emerse myself into.

You may not appreciate the environment, but that doesn't mean that no one else is allowed to. It certainly does not mean that anything they say regarding it is "wrong". You are of course welcome to your opinion, but that is all it is: an opinion. Please, for my sanity's sake, remember that before levelling such negative commentary at people.

And for the record, at no point in my post did I suggest that game mechanics should be put asside for such a change. They should not. But part of the develpment teams job is to build the environment, and how they go about doing that is certainly a fair topic for debate.

To make a different game you have to change more than just the mechanics, and you have to change more than just the environment. You need to change both.

Edit: Spolling.

Edited, Jun 2nd 2010 10:04am by Gii
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#89 Jun 02 2010 at 8:09 AM Rating: Default
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Quote:
You may not appreciate the environment, but that doesn't mean that no one else is allowed to. It certainly does not mean that anything they say regarding it is "wrong". You are of course welcome to your opinion, but that is all it is: an opinion. Please, for my sanity's sake, remember that before levelling such negative commentary at people.


I do appreciate small things like that, I really do.

But I would have never gotten to experience them if I didn't like the gameplay.

And, even with everything you said, I don't think you would have either. Little things like that won't keep us from being bored, the game mechanics are, ultimately, what will keep us playing. Social relationships do have a tendency to compensate for the poor mechanics, but they in no way can work solely on their own, unlike gameplay, which if it is fun and exciting, will keep our attention.

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To make a different game you have to change more than just the mechanics, and you have to change more than just the environment. You need to change both.


So, world of warcraft is indeed a copy of warcraft 3 in your opinion? Please, tell me that I have misunderstood you.
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#90 Jun 02 2010 at 9:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hyanmen wrote:
So, world of warcraft is indeed a copy of warcraft 3 in your opinion? Please, tell me that I have misunderstood you.


Having played neither, I could not possibly comment.

All I can say by way of clarity is that if FFXIV was being touted as the sequel to FFXI, then importing as many aspects of the environment as possible would make sence and be perfectly acceptable. This is, however, contrary to how SE have sold the concept of FFXIV as a new game in a new world. As such, I expect a new environment as well as new mechanics. Similarities are a comfort to many, and I don't have a problem with them, but too many similirities are less likely to impress and immerse me.

If WoW and Warcraft 3 are set in the same world, then I would fully expect them to incorporate the same setting and lore as each other, and not have a problem with it should I play them. Much like FFX and X-2 - I do not consider X-2 a copy of X, but I do not consider it a compleltey different game, because of the obvious setting similiarities. It's a sequal, plain and simple. I do not know if this is a similar analogy to your Warcraft question, so please forgive me if it is not.

That asside, it seems that in some aspects we do agree, and having your latest post karma bombed was hardly fair considering it's contents, so I shall green arrow it.
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#91Hyanmen, Posted: Jun 02 2010 at 9:53 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) So if FFXI and XIV would be set to the same world, but were not sequels, that would be okay with you? Really, now, us fans are seriously hard to please~
#92 Jun 02 2010 at 10:06 AM Rating: Excellent
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Personally I just think it's cute that people still seem to think that the issue might "just go away" if it's not implemented. That just telling people, "nah, don't want that," will actually have any effect whatsoever. "Oh, I shouldn't want that? Shouldn't be that big of a deal? K."

Honestly, the only real question here is what will people clamor for once they have the first thing on their list? And I think we all know that the answer is moogles. And who doesn't want moogles? Please speak up so that I can add you to the hitlist.

I wanna be a black moogle. I've never seen a black moogle :o
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#93 Jun 02 2010 at 10:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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Hyanmen wrote:
So if FFXI and XIV would be set to the same world, but were not sequels, that would be okay with you? Really, now, us fans are seriously hard to please~


Being "ok with" me has a two sided answer. If they were set in the same world, then I would have no problem with the setting and lore being alligned. I would, however, probably not be on this forum discussing XIV, because after all the effort I put into XI I'd have little reason to port to the new incarnation of the same setting, new mechanics or not.

I'm interested in trying a new game, and SE has a proven record of providing games I find immersive. The FF franchise is one I enjoy, and there are aspects of XI that will make their way into XIV, and that is no bad thing (as long as the bad aspects are left behind!), but at the end of the day the game needs to be different enough to grip me, or I'll go elsewhere or back to XI.

This isn't an offline game, which I might get through a couple of times and invest maybe 30 hours in total, where similarities to other games don't matter so much and wont get old as quickly. It's a game I will plan to spend thousands of hours playing over several years, so it needs to be different enough from XI that I don't get bored of it or too reminiscent of XI that I end up going right back there instead.

Now, this is just my feelings on the matter, and by no means the only point of view. But I am quite sure that I am not alone in this view, and that as much as anything prompted my first post in this thread.

Am I hard to please? With something I might invest a lot of time and money on you can be sure I am! But I'm also open minded enough to know that whatever the end product ends up like there will be things I like and things I don't. FFXI got the ballance right for me, and I hope FFXIV does too.

We have wandered a little off topic. If SE don't add more character types to XIV, it wont stop me from playing it. I'll feel a bit dissapointed that such a core aspect of the setting is so similar to XI, and that may or may not have longer term repurcursions on how long I stick at the game - but I really wont know for sure until I play and see just how many differences and similarities there are, and how they all mesh together. The proof of how that pans out will be in the pudding.

I like pudding.
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#94 Jun 02 2010 at 10:28 AM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
Honestly, the only real question here is what will people clamor for once they have the first thing on their list? And I think we all know that the answer is moogles. And who doesn't want moogles? Please speak up so that I can add you to the hitlist.


Moogles are evil. Never trust anything that wont look you in the eye!

If they added FFXII style moogles, then I will retract the above stamement. And I would absolutely play one if the option existed!
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Gii ~~ Kujata (now Giii of Valefor)
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#95Hyanmen, Posted: Jun 02 2010 at 10:42 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Well, let me just say that you are much less likely to go back to XI if the game mechanics are different than if the races were different.
#96 Jun 02 2010 at 11:45 AM Rating: Decent
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Kachi wrote:
who doesn't want moogles? Please speak up so that I can add you to the hitlist.

I wanna be a black moogle. I've never seen a black moogle :o


I personally don't care for the idea of playable moogles. Then again, I've never been a huge moogle fan. :/

That's not to say, however, that I'm bashing whoever does want them. To each their own and all that.
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#97 Jun 02 2010 at 11:50 AM Rating: Excellent
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And this assuming that SE has to prioritize their development resources and manpower somehow, and I have no reason to believe otherwise- even the biggest of budgets have their limits!


You make it sound like a studio is just a room filled with whole bunch of people in the room under the job title "generic developer". Trust me, they're not letting the Artists near the Spreadsheets anytime soon. :p




Edited, Jun 2nd 2010 1:51pm by Zemzelette
#98 Jun 02 2010 at 11:55 AM Rating: Decent
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You make it sound like a studio is just a room filled with whole bunch of people in the room under the job title "generic developer". Trust me, they're not letting the Artists near the Spreadsheets anytime soon. :p


Well I meant it more like "we'll hire 50 designers and 15 Artists with the funds we have, instead of 30/30 or 15/50 for example" :p.

Edited, Jun 2nd 2010 5:56pm by Hyanmen
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#99 Jun 02 2010 at 12:34 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well I meant it more like "we'll hire 50 designers and 15 Artists with the funds we have, instead of 30/30 or 15/50 for example" :p.


Ah, that makes more sense.

But you know, only small and some medium sized companies do the whole "hiring people for a project and firing them when it's over" thing. Big fish like Square stay afloat by cycling through teams. Each team is basically a static entity, there may be some switch around, bulk up and trim down but they don't get to build it from the ground up as each project demands.

Interesting little factoid of the day; Since we've got Tanaka-san we've likely got the same team that did XI.

Edited, Jun 2nd 2010 2:38pm by Zemzelette
#100 Jun 02 2010 at 12:43 PM Rating: Good
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Actually, many large multi-national companies hire on temporary help with a specific skillset to perform a project and then when the project is over, so is the team. We see it a lot especially in the IT industry.

It's a lot less expensive in the long run to hire a team to do the bulk of the work, and then your full-time workforce maintains it after the project is over. I'm not saying this is what SE is doing, just saying that it's not just small and medium companies that use this business plan. In fact, it's usually the larger ones who have more of a need, because it stands to reason that their clients are larger and thus the projects would be larger and beyond the capabilities of the regular full time force. That's why they are called projects rather than day-to-day business.
#101 Jun 02 2010 at 12:54 PM Rating: Default
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But you know, only small and some medium sized companies do the whole "hiring people for a project and firing them when it's over" thing. Big fish like Square stay afloat by cycling through teams. Each team is basically a static entity, there may be some switch around, bulk up and trim down but they don't get to build it from the ground up as each project demands.


That is true.

They'll still divide the resources between sectors like character design, animation and so on though? Basically they'll decide how much attention a single feature is going to get in the development process, at least I'd think so.

Of course if you want to create new races and art style from scratch it'll take more resources then using a similar art style. That's where the priorization kicks in :P.
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We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

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