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Disciples of the hand as main?Follow

#1 Jun 02 2010 at 1:43 PM Rating: Good
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I've been thinking, They say you can have a crafter job to start and just focus on that.. If this is true, How do they expect you to travel saftly if you cant fight? Or will the crafters have ways to defend themselves?

What would be a suiting way for them to travel without help? for example.
Alchemist make invisible potions?
Blacksmith beat things with there hammer?
Cooks distract foes by throwing leftovers at them?
Tanner's whip them with a peice of leather?
And what about Weavers? poking things with a needle wouldnt be very effective.. 1000 needles might.. Or mabey they can cover themselves witah bedsheet and act like ghosts! lol. yeah I really dont know..

Any of you have any ideas?
#2 Jun 02 2010 at 2:12 PM Rating: Decent
Puppy1 wrote:
I've been thinking, They say you can have a crafter job to start and just focus on that.. If this is true, How do they expect you to travel saftly if you cant fight? Or will the crafters have ways to defend themselves?

What would be a suiting way for them to travel without help? for example.
Alchemist make invisible potions?
Blacksmith beat things with there hammer?
Cooks distract foes by throwing leftovers at them?
Tanner's whip them with a peice of leather?
And what about Weavers? poking things with a needle wouldnt be very effective.. 1000 needles might.. Or mabey they can cover themselves witah bedsheet and act like ghosts! lol. yeah I really dont know..

Any of you have any ideas?


There hasn't really been any indication that DoH/DoL are intended to be mains that can freely travel the world in the same way that a DoW/DoM of equal class level could. That's not to say you cuoldn't level one as a main...crafting levequests award materials and gil that you could use to further your craft and produce things to sell. You could then turn around and use that gil to buy more materials to further your craft or, if SE continues with the sneak/invis thing, to get around and explore. Once you've been to an aetheryte node somewhere in the world, you can warp back to it. I think people are getting confused with the distinction of crafting based on class. Classes in XIV are just another component to your character. In XI, nobody would be confused about how you could be a 100 skill <insert profession here> and get around the world if you hadn't leveled a job, but because the distinction isn't clear under the class system, I think people are blurring the lines.
#3 Jun 02 2010 at 2:22 PM Rating: Decent
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This theory is based on the final fantasy 14 website under the Disciplins. Where it says theres 4 main types. I completly agree that it should go like it did in FFxi, where you have a main combat skill and from there can do trade skills as well. Seems to be a few hints though that in 14, may be able to just craft with no combat. Again not saying this is the case for sure but.. for the sake of argument lets say that you can have trade skill as main with no combat. But then again would that be even a good idea?
#4 Jun 02 2010 at 2:29 PM Rating: Good
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I haven't heard how aggro works in this game, but it could be based on your physical level, which I'm pretty sure still increases as you play crafting jobs. Enemies might not bother you if you're past a certain physical level.

Plus, you don't have to be on foot as much in XIV. A lot of travel in the game is done through teleportation and the guildleve system. Leves even let you warp to a special bubble in a regular zone with enemies specially suited to you.

I hope all travel doesn't happen this way, though. I'd like to see a need to wander around the game's "real" world fairly often.
#5 Jun 02 2010 at 2:38 PM Rating: Good
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It was mentioned in an interview awhile back that some DoH or DoL classes would be able to do some minor self defense, like a blacksmith can throw rocks. :D But yeah they haven't said if there would be better fighting/defense skills available to these classes as they level up or if they are pretty much stuck with rocks.

I think it would be great if chefs could whack things with frying pans, like moblins from XI.
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#6 Jun 02 2010 at 3:27 PM Rating: Decent
Puppy1 wrote:
This theory is based on the final fantasy 14 website under the Disciplins. Where it says theres 4 main types. I completly agree that it should go like it did in FFxi, where you have a main combat skill and from there can do trade skills as well. Seems to be a few hints though that in 14, may be able to just craft with no combat. Again not saying this is the case for sure but.. for the sake of argument lets say that you can have trade skill as main with no combat. But then again would that be even a good idea?


You could craft with no combat in FFXI as well, but it usually meant funding a mule from a main because with no combat and no quests that could offer worthwhile rewards enough to get you started you had to have at least a little seed money (and let's be honest, leveling a profession in XI was a gil sink, meaning the seed money had to keep coming). So yes, you'd be able to level a crafting discipline with no combat with the added benefit of levequests that award things you could use to further your profession. Most of the DoH require no travel. They just require that you have materials to work with, which you can get without leaving town. Those DoL that require you to gather materials or do things outside of town my require you to invest some time into a combat class in order to mine, etc. effectively, but if you're thinking of blacksmithing, tailoring, etc., you should be fine.
#7 Jun 02 2010 at 3:39 PM Rating: Decent
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
Puppy1 wrote:
This theory is based on the final fantasy 14 website under the Disciplins. Where it says theres 4 main types. I completly agree that it should go like it did in FFxi, where you have a main combat skill and from there can do trade skills as well. Seems to be a few hints though that in 14, may be able to just craft with no combat. Again not saying this is the case for sure but.. for the sake of argument lets say that you can have trade skill as main with no combat. But then again would that be even a good idea?


You could craft with no combat in FFXI as well, but it usually meant funding a mule from a main because with no combat and no quests that could offer worthwhile rewards enough to get you started you had to have at least a little seed money (and let's be honest, leveling a profession in XI was a gil sink, meaning the seed money had to keep coming). So yes, you'd be able to level a crafting discipline with no combat with the added benefit of levequests that award things you could use to further your profession. Most of the DoH require no travel. They just require that you have materials to work with, which you can get without leaving town. Those DoL that require you to gather materials or do things outside of town my require you to invest some time into a combat class in order to mine, etc. effectively, but if you're thinking of blacksmithing, tailoring, etc., you should be fine.


All this FFxiv is making me miss FFXi I miss my summoner... Yeah I see what your saying there. But I think you may be missing my point. From what I'm getting from the website, you may be able to specialize in just crafting with no combat oriented skill. If this is true do they expect you to just buy everything or is there a way to gather your own materials without a combat class. Aka no conjurer or Lancer, only Weaver.
#8 Jun 02 2010 at 3:51 PM Rating: Decent
Puppy1 wrote:

All this FFxiv is making me miss FFXi I miss my summoner... Yeah I see what your saying there. But I think you may be missing my point. From what I'm getting from the website, you may be able to specialize in just crafting with no combat oriented skill. If this is true do they expect you to just buy everything or is there a way to gather your own materials without a combat class. Aka no conjurer or Lancer, only Weaver.


If you can't kill things for skins, you can't gather your own skins. If you can't kill things for mysterious alchemy ingredients, you can't gather your own alchemy materials. If every mining node you need is surrounded by swarms of angry, aggressive monsters that you can't kill, you can't mine. But that doesn't mean you can't combine materials as a blacksmith, a tailor, or an alchemist...you just have to find an alternate supply of materials. As I said, you can get materials and gil from crafting levequests. If you can make things, you can sell things. If you can sell things, you can recover some (if not all) of your investment and possibly even turn a profit. You can then reinvest this profit into more materials to skill up your craft and/or produce things to sell. There are ways around the need to kill things if you really just want to focus on crafting, but that's not to say you'll have as easy a time coming up with gil/materials as players leveling combat classes alongside their crafting classes.


Edited, Jun 2nd 2010 2:52pm by Aurelius
#9 Jun 02 2010 at 4:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Puppy1 wrote:
I've been thinking, They say you can have a crafter job to start and just focus on that.. If this is true, How do they expect you to travel saftly if you cant fight? Or will the crafters have ways to defend themselves?

What would be a suiting way for them to travel without help? for example.
Alchemist make invisible potions?
Blacksmith beat things with there hammer?
Cooks distract foes by throwing leftovers at them?
Tanner's whip them with a peice of leather?
And what about Weavers? poking things with a needle wouldnt be very effective.. 1000 needles might.. Or mabey they can cover themselves witah bedsheet and act like ghosts! lol. yeah I really dont know..

Any of you have any ideas?


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#10 Jun 02 2010 at 5:47 PM Rating: Decent
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Or maybe they will be capable of traveling safely, via airships and other media, to other towns and cities. Being a crafter does not ussualy mean you go out and beat up monsters.. not sure where the idea that crafters and gatherers will be out there killing monsters keeps coming from.

#11 Jun 02 2010 at 6:14 PM Rating: Excellent
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
Puppy1 wrote:
I've been thinking, They say you can have a crafter job to start and just focus on that.. If this is true, How do they expect you to travel saftly if you cant fight? Or will the crafters have ways to defend themselves?

What would be a suiting way for them to travel without help? for example.
Alchemist make invisible potions?
Blacksmith beat things with there hammer?
Cooks distract foes by throwing leftovers at them?
Tanner's whip them with a peice of leather?
And what about Weavers? poking things with a needle wouldnt be very effective.. 1000 needles might.. Or mabey they can cover themselves witah bedsheet and act like ghosts! lol. yeah I really dont know..

Any of you have any ideas?


There hasn't really been any indication that DoH/DoL are intended to be mains that can freely travel the world in the same way that a DoW/DoM of equal class level could. That's not to say you cuoldn't level one as a main...crafting levequests award materials and gil that you could use to further your craft and produce things to sell. You could then turn around and use that gil to buy more materials to further your craft or, if SE continues with the sneak/invis thing, to get around and explore. Once you've been to an aetheryte node somewhere in the world, you can warp back to it. I think people are getting confused with the distinction of crafting based on class. Classes in XIV are just another component to your character. In XI, nobody would be confused about how you could be a 100 skill <insert profession here> and get around the world if you hadn't leveled a job, but because the distinction isn't clear under the class system, I think people are blurring the lines.



Actually I'm fairly sure that I read an interview somewhere in which SE said that this is their intention. I'll try to dig it up... but I'm pretty sure they want DoH/L to be able to explore (at relative levels) areas too.


*edit*

Ah ha, found it.

http://ffxiv.zam.com/story.html?story=19456

Quote:
When asked if crafting-based jobs like Weaver will have Guildleve quests designed for them, Tanaka answers that they will, and in fact, you can increase your skill without entering a single battle. Sundi reinforces this by saying players can easily choose to adventure through Eorzea as a Tailor or Blacksmith and simply focus on raising their crafting skills. One of the concepts behind Final Fantasy XIV, is that players do not have to slaughter monsters to reach a "high level," and can lead a quiet life as a crafter.


Edited, Jun 2nd 2010 5:27pm by Osarion
#12 Jun 02 2010 at 6:16 PM Rating: Good
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zurinadrg wrote:
Or maybe they will be capable of traveling safely, via airships and other media, to other towns and cities. Being a crafter does not ussualy mean you go out and beat up monsters.. not sure where the idea that crafters and gatherers will be out there killing monsters keeps coming from.



crafters may not have to worry about monsters, but there is a possibility that gatherers may have to at some point deal with aggressive monsters either en-route or on-site, that information isn't available yet and the whole thing may become clearer with time

the idea that crafters/gatherers will have to deal with monsters comes from our preconceived FFXI notions, and atm those are all we have to deal with in terms of SE and crafting/gathering possibilities
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#13 Jun 02 2010 at 7:09 PM Rating: Decent
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I wonder if you main class is a crafting class, will it be super lucrative or just enough to keep doing your job. In theory if your a crafter you should be doing some trade with the combat classes to exchange material and made items.

The Crafting and gathering classes go together the most though right? Whats a Miner going to do with all the minerals they mine? ether sell them or be some sort of smith to use them too. I'm really interested to in finding out just how much in the game you can do without ever killing a single monster.
#14 Jun 03 2010 at 8:26 AM Rating: Good
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If there's a problem of tough monsters out in the field, crafters/gatherers will most likely need some help from a combat focused friend(s). I figured it would be a given that if someone chooses to craft or gather as their main role that they would need help from someone who chooses combat as their main role.

As soon as I learned about the DoH and DoL, I was very excited. The set up is begging for the community to work together. Combat jobs need items, weapons and armors, DoH/L need materials and drops from mobs. Combat jobs become escorts for gatherers and hunters for those that need pelts or alchemy ingredients. In return the crafters and gatherers make weapons and equips for the combat jobs or in a gatherer's case maybe share some of the gathered up stuff.

I think with this kind of system we will see some interesting communities form both server wide and in the individual cities.
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#15 Jun 03 2010 at 9:08 AM Rating: Decent
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If you wern't able to guess I'm really wanting to try a crafter as main. Alot of you guys bring up good points and good ideas. That link was really helpfull btw Osarion thanks. I think that FFxiv has a good idea with the crafters as mains though. In that link it said that Thoes focused on combat will need the crafters as much as the crafters need them.

"It seems like Final Fantasy XIV is set to make crafting classes actual jobs on par with choosing to be a Warrior or Sorcerer. Both active, battle-ready classes and skilled, crafting classes will find themselves needing each other in order to survive. An interesting concept that could alleviate some of the concerns players have with the often maligned weapon durability system."

I'm wondering still though if the crafter classes other then minor will have anything to help in battle if being escorted somewhere.

#16 Jun 03 2010 at 11:40 AM Rating: Excellent
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KingGhidora wrote:

As soon as I learned about the DoH and DoL, I was very excited. The set up is begging for the community to work together. Combat jobs need items, weapons and armors, DoH/L need materials and drops from mobs. Combat jobs become escorts for gatherers and hunters for those that need pelts or alchemy ingredients. In return the crafters and gatherers make weapons and equips for the combat jobs or in a gatherer's case maybe share some of the gathered up stuff.


I agree - this is very promising with the way that SE seems to be designing this game. The biggest issue with XI is that gear never wore out, and a lot of pieces you just never outgrew. You buy one hauby for your melee class, and that's it. You keep it for life and it's good across 5-6 different jobs. It never wears out, you never throw it away, and you can just sell it on when you are done or upgrade at 75 to something else, taking away the opportunity for the folks who can MAKE that hauby to sell another one. That, and serious problems with the supply of materials, caused crafters to basically have to rely on HQ'ing things to make money. So, we see 1m+ levels of difference between a NQ item and a HQ item that has a +1 stat difference >.>

The XI system just wasn't designed very well and I think that SE realized this.

Seems like it's shaping up to be more fun and I might just *seriously* take up crafting in XIV.
#17 Jun 03 2010 at 12:45 PM Rating: Decent
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RedGalka wrote:
Puppy1 wrote:
I've been thinking, They say you can have a crafter job to start and just focus on that.. If this is true, How do they expect you to travel saftly if you cant fight? Or will the crafters have ways to defend themselves?

What would be a suiting way for them to travel without help? for example.
Alchemist make invisible potions?
Blacksmith beat things with there hammer?
Cooks distract foes by throwing leftovers at them?
Tanner's whip them with a peice of leather?
And what about Weavers? poking things with a needle wouldnt be very effective.. 1000 needles might.. Or mabey they can cover themselves witah bedsheet and act like ghosts! lol. yeah I really dont know..

Any of you have any ideas?


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#18 Jun 03 2010 at 12:54 PM Rating: Excellent
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LaFey wrote:
RedGalka wrote:
Puppy1 wrote:
I've been thinking, They say you can have a crafter job to start and just focus on that.. If this is true, How do they expect you to travel saftly if you cant fight? Or will the crafters have ways to defend themselves?

What would be a suiting way for them to travel without help? for example.
Alchemist make invisible potions?
Blacksmith beat things with there hammer?
Cooks distract foes by throwing leftovers at them?
Tanner's whip them with a peice of leather?
And what about Weavers? poking things with a needle wouldnt be very effective.. 1000 needles might.. Or mabey they can cover themselves witah bedsheet and act like ghosts! lol. yeah I really dont know..

Any of you have any ideas?


Escorts.


for a good time, call Faerrian at...


Bringing new meaning to "Discipline of the Hand"?
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#19 Jun 03 2010 at 12:57 PM Rating: Decent
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Eske wrote:
LaFey wrote:
[quote=RedGalka

Escorts.


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Bringing new meaning to "Discipline of the Hand"?[/quote]

Hmmm new job class.. "escort" make money in the privacy of your own Mog house, or the equivalent there of.
#20 Jun 03 2010 at 11:32 PM Rating: Good
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Put yourself temporarily "in the world", in a role playing sense.

If you take someone who is a merchant/blacksmith/tanner; someone whose primary profession is an economical one, the logical conclusion is that they would have to be careful traveling. Travel in a group or by horseback to avoid bandits, primarily during the day and staying to main roads. The basic ability to use a weapon to at least fend for yourself against the occasional wild animal might still be helpful.
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