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Video: ZAM Interviews Hiromichi TanakaFollow

#1 Jun 16 2010 at 7:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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After getting a chance to play FFXIV, ZAM had a brief interview with Hiromichi Tanaka where he talks about the battle system changes, why Eorzeans can't jump, and whether UI customization is possible.

http://ffxiv.zam.com/story.html?story=22562
#2 Jun 16 2010 at 8:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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I simply can't understand why the "why isn't there a jump feature" question is still being asked.

Edited, Jun 16th 2010 10:14pm by jayfly
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#4 Jun 16 2010 at 8:18 PM Rating: Good
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good answer to it though, it would be useless so why bother P
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#5 Jun 16 2010 at 8:19 PM Rating: Decent
I was shocked to hear fony's voice for the interview. I was so waiting for him to ask a question involving BIYM or finish a statement with "or some ****." Good interview ;D
#6 Jun 16 2010 at 8:20 PM Rating: Default
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I simply can't understand why the "why isn't there a jump feature" question is still being asked.



Because I want to jump!!!!!!
#7 Jun 16 2010 at 8:23 PM Rating: Excellent
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I can't believe none of you are commenting yet about how Hiromichi Tanaka sounds like a chick. Smiley: laugh
#8 Jun 16 2010 at 8:25 PM Rating: Good
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It's an MMO, not a platformer.

I wonder...just how many people out there are interested in a jumping feature?
#9 Jun 16 2010 at 8:26 PM Rating: Good
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The video is getting stuck for me about 8 seconds in, for some reason. Can't seem to buffer properly. Can anyone give me a quick couple of bullet-points about what happens in it?

SexyHumeTiberius wrote:
It's an MMO, not a platformer.

I wonder...just how many people out there are interested in a jumping feature?


Don't open that can of worms...trust me.

Edited, Jun 16th 2010 10:28pm by Eske
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#10 Jun 16 2010 at 8:29 PM Rating: Good
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They're thinking about allowing UI addons. That's news, isn't it?
#11 Jun 16 2010 at 8:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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I thought so. I expected more rabid jumping up and down about that, really.
#12 Jun 16 2010 at 8:34 PM Rating: Decent
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I would take the ability to jump in 3D over a customizable UI :P
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#13 Jun 16 2010 at 8:35 PM Rating: Good
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They're thinking about allowing UI addons. That's news, isn't it?


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I thought so. I expected more rabid jumping up and down about that, really.


I might jump up and down, but I don't have any experience with UI add-ons. What sort of stuff could one be presumably add to the UI?
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#14 Jun 16 2010 at 8:43 PM Rating: Decent
The jumping issue was hashed out here months ago. It's a subjective issue. I will say this, however: watching a character slide down a steep slope with no change to stance or animation is a bit...odd. Completely ignoring the Z axis in a game with such refined graphics and animation certainly doesn't add to the game.
#15 Jun 16 2010 at 8:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Eske wrote:
Quote:
They're thinking about allowing UI addons. That's news, isn't it?


Quote:
I thought so. I expected more rabid jumping up and down about that, really.


I might jump up and down, but I don't have any experience with UI add-ons. What sort of stuff could one be presumably add to the UI?


It depends. If they're going to allow UI re-skins (and call them add-ons) that's one thing. Another angle is to allow the kind of addons you see in games like WoW or EQ2 where there are custom UI elements (healing grids, dps monitors...) that allow you to perform specific actions, or monitor specific information. There's a lot of different directions they could go in, but hopefully they'll stick to basic re-skinning. LOTRO allows it, as does AoC, and it's a nice way to customize your UI to your liking without adding doo-dads and thingamajigs that drastically change the way the game is played.
#16 Jun 16 2010 at 8:52 PM Rating: Good
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SexyHumeTiberius wrote:
It's an MMO, not a platformer.

I wonder...just how many people out there are interested in a jumping feature?


Yeah, the most epic debates are concerning jumping. The threads about jumping get to be very long so I'd say at least half want jumping. Those who wanted jumping mainly sited at how poorly the FFXI terrain was and how often you get stuck going up stairs or have to walk around a stupid little one foot fence to get to where your going. Those against it don't like it because jumping annoyed them.
#17 Jun 16 2010 at 8:53 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:
The jumping issue was hashed out here months ago. It's a subjective issue. I will say this, however: watching a character slide down a steep slope with no change to stance or animation is a bit...odd. Completely ignoring the Z axis in a game with such refined graphics and animation certainly doesn't add to the game.


I'd say this hits it on the nail for me. I think terrain and positioning should be important aspects, but I am also in the mood for something fresh and different, and maybe I can learn to live without the jump button, but I do think it is somewhat silly to consider adding 3D to a game that might have only two movement dimensions.
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#18 Jun 16 2010 at 8:57 PM Rating: Good
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Serielley wrote:
It depends. If they're going to allow UI re-skins (and call them add-ons) that's one thing. Another angle is to allow the kind of addons you see in games like WoW or EQ2 where there are custom UI elements (healing grids, dps monitors...) that allow you to perform specific actions, or monitor specific information. There's a lot of different directions they could go in, but hopefully they'll stick to basic re-skinning. LOTRO allows it, as does AoC, and it's a nice way to customize your UI to your liking without adding doo-dads and thingamajigs that drastically change the way the game is played.


Ah, thanks. Well, I won't be freaking out if they go in that direction, but some re-skinning/theme options would be quite welcome additions. FFXI was pretty limited in that regard.
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#19 Jun 16 2010 at 8:58 PM Rating: Good
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Quote:

I might jump up and down, but I don't have any experience with UI add-ons. What sort of stuff could one be presumably add to the UI?


Mostly it's innocuous aesthetic things.
Like changing the minimap from this this to this.

Other times it's keeping track of things that happen in the chatlog and displaying it on the UI, in a way that's just making a visual cue for something you could just as easily see in the log itself. Think like a chat filter, only visual.

Very rarely (but very popularly) it's keeping track of things in the chatlog and applying some math that allows it to conveniently display beyond what a human is naturally capable of keeping track of, and things that may have previously had no UI/chatlog indication. If your a button masher game, and timing is part and parcel to your definition of difficulty, this is sort of a hot button issue. If your a cerebral game, you shrug and move on with your life.



Edited, Jun 16th 2010 11:23pm by Zemzelette
#20 Jun 16 2010 at 8:58 PM Rating: Decent
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Borkachev wrote:
They're thinking about allowing UI addons. That's news, isn't it?


I cackled with maniacal glee when I heard that.








AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
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#21 Jun 16 2010 at 8:58 PM Rating: Good
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I can do without jumping and 3D.
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#22 Jun 16 2010 at 9:12 PM Rating: Good
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Yea, the interview really hit three hotly contested issues. Jump. UI Customization. Races(and sexes). So I would say we have heard a definitive answer to jump, and I have to say maybe a bit of sarcasm about what pupose it would serve. HAHA! Thank you Tanaka for bringing a smile to my day. UI customization is open for debate because while they said they were looking into it, they did not specify the degree. I'm OK with fluf, but not a fan of cheats or the game basically playing itself. Knowing how SE likes to enforce "their way" of doing things (ex: immeditely nullifying kc drk strategy for AV)I can't see them giving too much creative freedom with this. Could be wrong though? Also, the remark that they did have the ability to and might add more races caught my ear too. This is one of those "its nice but I don't need it" things for me. I really would not mind seeing more race options, but I won't be all butthurt if they do not have them. On the other hand, it would **** me off if they came out with new races after I had already invested a year or two into another character. So I would like all my race options up front........ if they do this, I would much rather see new races than more gender options. Preferably, I would like to see friendly beastmen as playable characters such as goblins.
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#23 Jun 16 2010 at 9:21 PM Rating: Good
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Zemzelette wrote:
Quote:

I might jump up and down, but I don't have any experience with UI add-ons. What sort of stuff could one be presumably add to the UI?


Mostly it's innocuous aesthetic things.
Like changing the minimap from this this to this.

Other times it's keeping track of things that happen in the chatlog and displaying it on the UI, in a way that's just making a visual cue for something you could just as easily see in the log itself. Think like a chat filter, only visual.

Very rarely (but very popularly) it's keeping track of things in the chatlog and applying some math that allows it to [http://typhoonandrew.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/omen2.jpg]conveniently display beyond what a human is naturally capable of keeping track of, and things that may have previously had no UI/chatlog indication.[/link] If your a button masher game, and timing is part and parcel to your definition of difficulty, this is sort of a hot button issue. If your a cerebral game, you shrug and move on with your life.




Edited, Jun 16th 2010 11:19pm by Zemzelette


Thanks for the visual aids. Thumbs up for reskins/themes, ambivalence for the rest.
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#24 Jun 17 2010 at 12:05 AM Rating: Decent
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Anyone else think we should introduce that translator chicky to Elmer? Seem's like his kinda girl ;)
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#25 Jun 17 2010 at 1:26 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elmer is actually married.
#26 Jun 17 2010 at 8:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Why make a 3D game at all? It's not needed to make a good game. Just go back to the days before FF7.

I'm hoping this statement sounds absurd to most of us. For me, avoiding Jump, sounds just as absurd. Right now Jump would help with annoying surface glitches, but in the futur it should open the way to a more realistic 3D terrain development. Ignoring platform gaming elements is a mistake.

Edited, Jun 17th 2010 6:23pm by RedGalka
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#27 Jun 17 2010 at 8:09 AM Rating: Good
RedGalka wrote:
Why make a 3D game at all? It's not needed to make a good game. Just go back days before FF7.

I'm hoping this statement sounds absurd to most of us. For me, avoiding Jump, sounds just as absurd. Right now Jump would help with annoying surface glitches, but in the futur it should open the way to a more realistic 3D terrain development. Ignoring platform gaming elements is a mistake.


Edit: err...re-reading your post I was thinking a different 3D. A cup of coffee later and I realize my folly but I'll leave the commentary because it's relevant to the thread even if it's not relevant to your post. Sorry 'bout that.

3D is a fad. And as far as the extents of this particular fad go, it's new, it's shiny, people are paying out the *** for graphics cards that allow it, and then when people realize the eye fatigue and general hassle of having to put on a specialized pair of 3D glasses every time they want to play, they're going to slowly shift away from it. That's the way 3D has always been. It's neat and cool for a little while and then people realize it's not all it's cracked up to be so they abandon it. Then a few years later it's neat and cool again.

That having been said, SE was probably put under a certain amount of pressure from nVidia to support 3D this time around.

Edited, Jun 17th 2010 8:10am by Aurelius
#28 Jun 17 2010 at 8:45 AM Rating: Good
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RedGalka wrote:

That having been said, SE was probably put under a certain amount of pressure from nVidia to support 3D this time around.


Possible, Or could just be a test as well, you know there will always be people willing to pay for the extra "privledge" of having the latest and greatest gadgets out there. As well, People who collect Final fantasy games... ~cough~ may just buy it to have and not really even play it.
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#29 Jun 17 2010 at 8:57 AM Rating: Decent
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Hahahah

I love Tanaka's reaction to the jumping question.

Western players are dumb.

(let the red arrows rain!)
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#30 Jun 17 2010 at 9:07 AM Rating: Good
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RedGalka wrote:
Why make a 3D game at all? It's not needed to make a good game. Just go back days before FF7.

I'm hoping this statement sounds absurd to most of us. For me, avoiding Jump, sounds just as absurd. Right now Jump would help with annoying surface glitches, but in the futur it should open the way to a more realistic 3D terrain development. Ignoring platform gaming elements is a mistake.


Not that I really want to reignite the old debate...but I'm pretty positive that Jump causes more glitches than it remedies. I found myself getting stuck FAR more often in games where I could jump (Vanguard, WoW, and AoC) than I did in FFXI. You jump onto some object or area in the world, and then find yourself pinned inside of it.

I don't know much about it, but I think it's just the nature of coding the feature. It doesn't work like real world physics, where being able to move in the Z direction "solves" problems...instead, the larger degree of freedom opens up more opportunities for physics errors.

Edited, Jun 17th 2010 11:07am by Eske
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#31 Jun 17 2010 at 9:09 AM Rating: Decent
Hyanmen wrote:
Hahahah

I love Tanaka's reaction to the jumping question.

Western players are dumb.

(let the red arrows rain!)


I think that what's dumb is the inability of the anti-jumping crowd to realize just how fully subjective it is. A part of me wishes fony had responded to that with, "Well, do you remember Ordelles and how you had to do the uphill slalom to navigate half the stairways? And you don't think jumping would alleviate some of that, or have you guys finally gotten a handle on how to develop your terrain without ankle-height obstacles that have to be navigated around?" Not because jumping is required in order for XIV to be a good game, and not because everyone has to like jumping or they're stupid, but because if you can't see the benefits...well, then intelligence comes into question. A 3D game with all the pretties and shinies that largely ignores the Z axis is...questionable. Acceptable, but questionable.
#32 Jun 17 2010 at 10:10 AM Rating: Good
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What is actually questionable is if the stairs in Ordelle's (which you spend so much time in- just kidding) are so important that it warrants the devs to develop the game so that the Z axis can be used and animate the jumping function for all races as well as make the character to actually move up at the same time.

Waste of development time better spent elsewhere? Tanaka's reaction was quite self-explanatory, and so is mine.

Edited, Jun 17th 2010 4:16pm by Hyanmen
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#33 Jun 17 2010 at 10:21 AM Rating: Good
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I actually agree with Hyanmen. There were, of course, some problem areas in FFXI that could have been alleviated with a jump feature, however, there weren't many and you didn't really spend enough time there to warrant the devs spending a lot of time, energy, and resources just to solve such a small problem, IMO.
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#34 Jun 17 2010 at 10:22 AM Rating: Decent
Hyanmen wrote:
What is actually questionable is if the stairs in Ordelle's (which you spend so much time in- just kidding) are so important that it warrants the devs to develop the game so that the Z axis can be used and animate the jumping function for all races as well as make the character to actually move up at the same time.

Waste of development time better spent elsewhere? Tanaka's reaction was quite self-explanatory, and so is mine.


That was just one example of the benefits. It's pretty easy to tell that you're not interested in reason, however, and there's no point rehashing an issue that already got a multiple page thread dedicated to it.
#35 Jun 17 2010 at 10:28 AM Rating: Good
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Edit: err...re-reading your post I was thinking a different 3D. A cup of coffee later and I realize my folly but I'll leave the commentary because it's relevant to the thread even if it's not relevant to your post. Sorry 'bout that.


Yeah that's why I put the "before FF7" thing in there, because 3D has kind of a double meaning now and I didn't know how else to put it.
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#36 Jun 17 2010 at 10:30 AM Rating: Excellent
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***** Ordelle's! I hate that damned recessed area past the 3 mage gate in Horutoto!!! Smiley: mad
#37 Jun 17 2010 at 10:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Their reason for not allowing jumping is pretty poor. I'm not a fan of a dedicated jump button that leads everybody to bounce around like idiots everywhere (Mein leapen!), but I liked FFXIII's implementation of a context-sensitive jump.

Anyway, I guess it's a dead issue.

Quote:
3D is a fad. And as far as the extents of this particular fad go, it's new, it's shiny, people are paying out the *** for graphics cards that allow it, and then when people realize the eye fatigue and general hassle of having to put on a specialized pair of 3D glasses every time they want to play, they're going to slowly shift away from it. That's the way 3D has always been.

We have two eyes, so the shift from 2D to 3D is just as inevitable as the shift from black & white to color was. The final implementation won't use these annoying glasses, but they're a stepping stone. With technology further along than it was before and lots of 3D content finally coming out, we'll have good glasses-free 3D within a few years.
#38 Jun 17 2010 at 10:35 AM Rating: Decent
RedGalka wrote:
Quote:
Edit: err...re-reading your post I was thinking a different 3D. A cup of coffee later and I realize my folly but I'll leave the commentary because it's relevant to the thread even if it's not relevant to your post. Sorry 'bout that.


Yeah that's why I put the "before FF7" thing in there, because 3D has kind of a double meaning now and I didn't know how else to put it.


I'm largely indifferent to the jumping thing personally, but when I saw footage of someone sliding down a steep slope and it's basically the same animation/model as their character standing still, I couldn't help but think SE had missed something. I know that XIV features a lot of motion capture for various different animations and if all animations are motion captured, I can see how it would have been difficult to come up with a plausible animation for something like that, but it's still representative of a lack of polish. Considering everything else SE has put into the graphics for the game, omitting something like that was disappointing. And if they had the systems in place to detect when you were sliding and had an animation/stance that reflected it, they'd also have the system in place to allow jumping and all they'd need is the animation for the actual jump itself. SE made a decision and there's no real point in lamenting it now, but there's an aobvious tradeoff that came with that decision. It's not quite so black and white as some people might want to convince themselves that it is.
#39 Jun 17 2010 at 10:38 AM Rating: Decent
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That was just one example of the benefits. It's pretty easy to tell that you're not interested in reason, however, and there's no point rehashing an issue that already got a multiple page thread dedicated to it.


Oh, the high horse is high indeed. You can't give enough examples because there aren't that many.
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#40 Jun 17 2010 at 10:41 AM Rating: Decent
Pikko wrote:
***** Ordelle's! I hate that damned recessed area past the 3 mage gate in Horutoto!!! Smiley: mad


Ya, there were lots of areas like that...for some reason Ordelles is just the one that sticks out the most. Perhaps it was the many, many hours I spent camping RSE keys and Stroper Chymes. As I recall, there were stairs in Garlaige that were bad for that too. I just really had a hard time with the idea that mobs who could already melee me from behind at a range of ten yards could close that much more distance because my lanky Elvaan ranger who could defeat Promathia apparently couldn't manage a set of stairs. And that's really the issue for me...if SE can manage all of the terrain in XIV so that you never get hung up on paltry "obstacles", I probably won't even notice the inability to jump. I am 100% confident, however, that the very first time I find myself having to run around a shin-high ledge I'm going to be thinking some not so polite things about the XIV dev team.
#41 Jun 17 2010 at 10:45 AM Rating: Decent
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that the very first time I find myself having to run around a shin-high ledge I'm going to be thinking some not so polite things about the XIV dev team.


You are not a very logical person then.
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#42 Jun 17 2010 at 10:47 AM Rating: Excellent
Hyanmen wrote:
Quote:
That was just one example of the benefits. It's pretty easy to tell that you're not interested in reason, however, and there's no point rehashing an issue that already got a multiple page thread dedicated to it.


Oh, the high horse is high indeed. You can't give enough examples because there aren't that many.


There are examples of things that you have to go around instead of being able to go over in every single zone in XI that I can think of off the top of my head. I would imagine that there are some zones where such things aren't present, but they'd be the exception and not the rule. And we're not talking about cliffs or major landscape transitions...we're talking about short ledges and terrain features that, at first glance, would not resemble a substantial obstacle. They'd resemble a, "must lift my foot higher to navigate this step." Which is why I'm not rabidly demanding that jumping must be implemented in order to save the game from mediocrity. As I said above, if they can do a better job of managing the terrain so that things that shouldn't be obstacles aren't, I'll be fine with it.

Quote:
You are not a very logical person then.


Say what?

Edited, Jun 17th 2010 9:47am by Aurelius
#43 Jun 17 2010 at 10:48 AM Rating: Good
I think there might have been some EN>JP translation errors? It sounds like when the guy asked about there being no 'jump' that the answer was about 'job'.

Oh I answered too soon, yes translation error but clarified.


I do think it would be nice if they added some functionality for "over that **** object", and maybe it could be varied depending on the object you're against, from hopping over to placing your hand on it and climbing it.

Also, I'd rather them only have the 5 races than have all the armor look like spandex body suits like in WoW.

Edited, Jun 17th 2010 9:52am by digitalcraft
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#44 Jun 17 2010 at 10:49 AM Rating: Decent
digitalcraft, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
I think there might have been some EN>JP translation errors? It sounds like when the guy asked about there being no 'jump' that the answer was about 'job'.


Ya, the first answer was, and then fony clarified.
#45 Jun 17 2010 at 10:57 AM Rating: Good
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I always had trouble getting up the stairs to the telepoints. Dem, Holla, and Mea always seemed to give me trouble. Jump would be nice for something like that, but whenever I play a game with jump I end up jumping almost non-stop; probably because of A.D.D.
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#46 Jun 17 2010 at 11:04 AM Rating: Good
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we don't need jump but a button that raised and lowered the ground from under only the players feet would be ok
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#47 Jun 17 2010 at 11:05 AM Rating: Good
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As I said above, if they can do a better job of managing the terrain so that things that shouldn't be obstacles aren't, I'll be fine with it.


Yes, this is what they definitely could improve on. If it's believable, it's not as annoying.

Quote:
Say what?


As you play the game for 5000(0) hours, and for 2 seconds during those 5000 hours you can't get up a ledge and you're ready to lynch the dev team because of that, I don't think that's reasonable nor logical thinking. Just saying.
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#48 Jun 17 2010 at 11:07 AM Rating: Decent
Hyanmen wrote:
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As I said above, if they can do a better job of managing the terrain so that things that shouldn't be obstacles aren't, I'll be fine with it.


Yes, this is what they definitely could improve on. If it's believable, it's not as annoying.

Quote:
Say what?


As you play the game for 5000(0) hours, and for 2 seconds during those 5000 hours you can't get up a ledge and you're ready to lynch the dev team because of that, I don't think that's reasonable nor logical thinking. Just saying.


I think illogical would be assuming that it would be a one-off occurance.
#49 Jun 17 2010 at 11:16 AM Rating: Good
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In 10 000 hours of playtime you'd come across another 2 second obstacle, and so on.

When playtime is concerned, I'd be much more worried about getting stuck on other players while trying to move past them- **** happens a lot more than me visiting Ordelle's and is a lot more annoying in the end (imo).

There's lots of annoyances that are bigger than whatever jumping would fix, and much easier to solve too. But we don't talk about those. JUMPING this, JUMPING that. No logic, whatsoever.
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Quote:
We really want to compete against World of Warcraft and for example the new Star Wars MMO.

#50 Jun 17 2010 at 11:21 AM Rating: Decent
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134 posts
JUMPING

Cons:
  • Harder to implement/more development time.
  • Could be exploited.
  • It could be annoying if people are randomly jumping around you over and over and over.
  • You might get your character stuck if you jump somewhere you aren't supposed to.
  • You might be required to have some skill at jumping to complete a task.

  • Pros:
  • No more getting stuck on terrain.
  • Maps can be designed to jump from one object to the next.
  • Adds a new dimension to maze-type puzzles.
  • Gives players multiple ways to traverse a map. Example: A NM in some dungeon is up on a catwalk. You could run around plowing trash to a certain area to go up stairs to a catwalk, or jump up the side of pillar to pull just the NM.
  • Maps could have objects that increase your jump height like whirlwinds in EQ2, which might be needed to cross really large chasms.
  • Low gravity maps add further possibilities with jump and objects that "toss" your character.

  • I'm sure anyone can add to these pros and cons, and some might even put all points in the cons list because they don't enjoy maps that require controlling your character in z-axis. But to me, the pros outweigh the cons. As for why do people ask about jumping: it is a common feature and expected in an MMO just like swimming and underwater combat. By not having jumping SE is closing off a ton of map design opportunities, and gaining nothing really... except that it's just easier to not have a jump feature.

    Anyway, it doesn't matter now, but still fun to debate about.
    #51 Jun 17 2010 at 11:23 AM Rating: Excellent
    Hyanmen wrote:
    In 10 000 hours of playtime you'd come across another 2 second obstacle, and so on.

    When playtime is concerned, I'd be much more worried about getting stuck on other players while trying to move past them- sh*t happens a lot more than me visiting Ordelle's and is a lot more annoying in the end (imo).

    There's lots of annoyances that are bigger than whatever jumping would fix, and much easier to solve too. But we don't talk about those. JUMPING this, JUMPING that. No logic, whatsoever.


    You're not reading. You're not addressing the issues. You're letting your bias show. I've pointed out all the other zones...you're still stuck on Ordelles. I'd almost say you're being purposely obtuse about it because you just don't like the idea of jumping. I'm talking about terrain issues. Period. Jumping is one solution. Fixing the terrain issues is another. I've said as much. Address the issues minus the bias or drop it.
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