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#1 Jun 19 2010 at 2:52 PM Rating: Good
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Not sure how much zone layout has been described, but I can't seem to find much about it and leaks are against the rules here.
I am hoping that zone lines are wide, unlike some other MMOs I have played, FFXI in particular.
I think surrounding every zone with mountains with a few passes through them to funnel players along is somewhat contrived, and unnecessary at this point.
A zone going from a forest land to a prarie should not have to be a single narrow pass through a mountain range.
The zone between the eastern and western halves of a forest shouldn't either.
There should be a zoneline from sea to shining sea, if there have to be zone lines at all.
I mean, SWG was in my opinion a vastly inferior game, but each world was completely open.
City flowed to field flowed to sea flowed to mountain.
FFXIV is many many times more graphically intense, so zonelines may be required to limit pop-in of textural elements, but I hope they have come up something better than the "this mountain pass funnels you from point A to point B even though they are halves of the same prarie"

#2 Jun 19 2010 at 3:07 PM Rating: Decent
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I totally agree with you on this. I have read so far however that there will still be "zones", loading points between areas. Bums me out, but people don't seem to care much. On the bright side the devs said something along the lines of " If you see something in the distance, you will be able to get there ". That is something I wrote a post about months ago, so that's good news. Without a z axis (aka jumping, which 50% of the fans are so adamantly against for some odd reason), getting through the mountains or even a rock that's up to your shin (lol) will be impossible. Aside from their attempts at creating a more fast-paced combat system, I don't have much faith in SE's ability to avoid the boring, linear form of exploration they force on their players anymore. This is off on a tangent, but seeing posts like yours remind me of how frustrating SE can be. FFXIV will be a great game despite it's shortcomings for sure, but when Tanaka laughs condescendingly when a fan asks why they did not implement jumping, you begin to see the arrogance and sh*t attitude the company has towards a broader player base.
No Jumping
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At least they increased the size of the zones, sped up combat, and allow soloing now.

We'll see how it goes, but I'm becoming more of a cynic about this game as time goes on; especially after witnessing Tanaka's attitude toward something that so many asked for. Anyway, I'm done beating the dead horse.
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#3 Jun 19 2010 at 3:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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I think You've misinterapted the now loading comments.

Switching zones from one area to the next is seamless, no loading required.
Naturally jumping long distances, i.e across regions via teleports will require a short load time.

The zoning system is actually pretty slick, the music fades in and you're just smoothly introduced to a new zone.
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#4 Jun 19 2010 at 3:31 PM Rating: Good
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No plans to add some form of even friendly dueling. (don't tell me about ballista, you know it was absolute garbage.)


Ul'Dah has something like this per the official website: "...famed recreation, most notably the fighting arena and gambling halls."

As for jumping and swimming, the whole reason I gravitated toward playing RPG's back in the NES days was so that I didn't have to play that 'twitch' style gaming. I could care less if you can't jump. I wouldn't mind some implementation like others have mentioned of Zelda or FFXIII case specific jumping/climbing.
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#5The One and Only Aurelius, Posted: Jun 19 2010 at 3:46 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) There will be zones ala FFXI, but they will be much larger. The devs have said that zones in XIV will be about the size of regions in XI. So yes, there will be the occasional loading screen...it's just that those screens will be fewer and farther between.
#6 Jun 19 2010 at 4:36 PM Rating: Decent
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That is dissapointing tbh, I knew there was going to be some zoning, but I really thought it was in the form that was mentioned earlier, when you warp/tele etc. Also I figured it would be somewhat like in wow, where there are different continents and between those you zone with a loading screen, but not between regular connected zones. Oh well, can't say I am surprised considering how good it looks, and I'd rather take this than something less pretty, but still.
#7 Jun 19 2010 at 5:37 PM Rating: Decent
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That is dissapointing tbh, I knew there was going to be some zoning, but I really thought it was in the form that was mentioned earlier, when you warp/tele etc. Also I figured it would be somewhat like in wow, where there are different continents and between those you zone with a loading screen, but not between regular connected zones. Oh well, can't say I am surprised considering how good it looks, and I'd rather take this than something less pretty, but still.


keep in mind that the regions in FF11 are about half the size (give or take a bit) of the continents in WoW, so itll still be a pretty big contiguous area. plus FF14 is much more graphically sophisticated than WoW is, at least in terms of the hardware demands, which is probably a contributing reason towards making the zones the size they are.
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#8 Jun 19 2010 at 7:04 PM Rating: Good
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I'm just hoping we aren't farmed through these narrow passageways that have no real purpose on the map other than to funnel us through them. I always thought it was dumb for every zone to be surrounded by mountains. I'm glad to hear the zones are substantially larger, maybe the "this area has mountains on all sides" will make more sense if the area is large enough to seem like it should be surrounded by mountains.

I thought different ways of zoning would have been nice, if there is a plateau like area in FFXIV, instead of sneaking through a pass in the mountains, let there be only a pass UP the mountain, since a plateau is an elevated plain...Seemed dumb to walk from a forest to a plateau through a mountain pass, when we should have been climbing a mountain to reach a plateau.

Also...give us a real, long, vast coastline. Not a beach or two and then seaside cliffs.

Edited, Jun 19th 2010 9:04pm by Dintar
#9 Jun 19 2010 at 9:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Zoning allows you to get up and grab a soda, so I am endorsing some form of zoning. :)

I hope most of it is seamless, but I can understand if some of it is not.
#10 Jun 19 2010 at 9:27 PM Rating: Good
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I hope that less zoning means will be able to run away from mobs without zoning. Anybody know anything about it?
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#11 Jun 19 2010 at 9:45 PM Rating: Default
LebargeX wrote:
I hope that less zoning means will be able to run away from mobs without zoning. Anybody know anything about it?


There's already abundant evidence that mobs leash, so I wouldn't be too concerned about having to zone in a situation gone wrong.
#12 Jun 19 2010 at 9:53 PM Rating: Good
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There's already abundant evidence that mobs leash, so I wouldn't be too concerned about having to zone in a situation gone wrong.


Sounds good :)
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#13 Jun 20 2010 at 12:37 AM Rating: Decent
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There's already abundant evidence that mobs leash, so I wouldn't be too concerned about having to zone in a situation gone wrong.
If they leash like the way they do in Eq2 it will not be bad. If they leash the way they did when FFXI was first released its going to be fun times all over again =p /evilgrin
#14 Jun 20 2010 at 1:38 AM Rating: Good
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To be honest, mob/gob trains were some of the most fun I had in FFXI. The carnage and mayhem that ensued after a party zoned (or attempted to) from a bad pull was brilliant.
#15 Jun 20 2010 at 2:13 AM Rating: Good
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Yogtheterrible wrote:
To be honest, mob/gob trains were some of the most fun I had in FFXI. The carnage and mayhem that ensued after a party zoned (or attempted to) from a bad pull was brilliant.


I joined too late in the game to ever witness it firsthand, now only the stories remain, wish I could have been there to see he he..
#16 Jun 20 2010 at 2:19 AM Rating: Good
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It was even better for my parties when it happened before it was pretty much required for RDMs to sub whm because subbing BLM meant I could chainspell + escape my party out of whatever dungeon we were in and watch the carnage from afar.
#17 Jun 20 2010 at 2:33 AM Rating: Decent
samosamo wrote:
Yogtheterrible wrote:
To be honest, mob/gob trains were some of the most fun I had in FFXI. The carnage and mayhem that ensued after a party zoned (or attempted to) from a bad pull was brilliant.


I joined too late in the game to ever witness it firsthand, now only the stories remain, wish I could have been there to see he he..


They were exciting until you realized how much of a waste of time they were. Yuhtunga Jungle (gob smithies), Garlaige Citadel (bats/beetles) and Crawler's Nest (crawlers) were terrible. And there were times where you could literally wait over half an hour for the zone line to clear because idiots would keep training everything back to the entrance. It was a poorly thought out mechanic and about the only people who truly enjoyed it were the BST who could exploit it to MPK people who ****** them off. When you need to call in high level help to clear a zone line so that you can get back to playing the game, something is broken.
#18 Jun 20 2010 at 5:38 AM Rating: Decent
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Awh I kind of miss the Crawler trains. It added some sense of danger when you were exping in the ballsack room. Excitement =]
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#19 Jun 21 2010 at 4:26 AM Rating: Decent
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I wouldn't worry about zoning. If there's going to be any loading of zones, there are probably a whole 5 zone lines in a huge world that would take at least more than a couple of hours to traverse on foot.
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#20 Jun 21 2010 at 4:58 AM Rating: Default
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LebargeX wrote:
I could care less if you can't jump.


What exactly do you mean here?


You seem to be saying "I don't not care about jumping as much as I possibly might"


But from the rest of your post it seems as if you are saying you don't care about jumping at all. So this statement is highly confusing.

Edited, Jun 21st 2010 8:01am by Lobivopis
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I thought of it first:

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10&mid=130073657654872218#20
#21 Jun 21 2010 at 5:15 AM Rating: Decent
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Really? You're doing that again? How terribly clever.

Oh well. I could really care less.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#22 Jun 21 2010 at 5:26 AM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
samosamo wrote:
Yogtheterrible wrote:
To be honest, mob/gob trains were some of the most fun I had in FFXI. The carnage and mayhem that ensued after a party zoned (or attempted to) from a bad pull was brilliant.


I joined too late in the game to ever witness it firsthand, now only the stories remain, wish I could have been there to see he he..


They were exciting until you realized how much of a waste of time they were. Yuhtunga Jungle (gob smithies), Garlaige Citadel (bats/beetles) and Crawler's Nest (crawlers) were terrible. And there were times where you could literally wait over half an hour for the zone line to clear because idiots would keep training everything back to the entrance. It was a poorly thought out mechanic and about the only people who truly enjoyed it were the BST who could exploit it to MPK people who ****** them off. When you need to call in high level help to clear a zone line so that you can get back to playing the game, something is broken.
Thanks for letting us know what we did or didn't enjoy, Aurelius.

Anyway, I too liked the sense of danger, it made the whole experience almost feel more 'realistic'. I mean, you're going into damned dangerous places. To be able to come and go as you please comfortably, with no real fear or danger unless you deliberately start a fight and then link - I don't know, it feels a bit cheap, and a little numbing. I like my games to feel dangerous, it makes these grind-y elements feel a little less grindy. Grind is practically typified by ease of play - when getting to a leveling location is fraught with danger, it feels a little more special. To actually reach a camp site with five other people felt like an accomplishment.

I don't see why this whole mentality of exp-should-be-easy has taken over recent MMO's as of late. Isn't it an age old saying "a journey isn't about the destination, it's how you get there"? I think leveling should be a meaningful, engaging event in itself rather than 'the mandatory level sync before you get to end game'.

Obviously though, this system in FFXI wasn't fun for everybody, but most people I know who played back then (myself included) tend to reminisce positively on the experience. Did I enjoy it? Sometimes. Could it have been implemented better? Probably, but to write it off completely seems a little... I dunno Aurelius, presumptuous perhaps?

Also lobi... that was a stretch. I think you'd be better off just putting +1
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#23 Jun 21 2010 at 6:01 AM Rating: Good
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There's some truth to what you say, and I don't think that things like trains were really even a major problem with XI. XI was a grind because leveling took far longer than it needed to. I mean, consider the following:
1. You rarely had anything to look forward to at a new level that actually changed the way you played your job, especially at later levels as it took longer and longer to ding.

2. You could easily learn your job in half the time it took to reach level 75 with even a little effort, nevermind merits.

3. Leveling a second job to 75 takes roughly just as long as the first, even though much of the experience is basically the same. With 20 playable jobs, it certainly wouldn't hurt the game if later jobs leveled more quickly so that old players could play with new jobs more easily.

4. You were basically punished for challenging yourself by overhunting. XP didn't scale according to difficulty very well-- it scaled to killing more weaker mobs rather than fewer stronger ones.

5. There was, of course, the ridiculous time it took to assemble and maintain a working party.

For me, every one of those aspects made the game more of a grind than things like trains, and fixing even a single one of them would drastically improve the game imo. If they were to improve all five of them, I would essentially consider FFXI a new game and reactivate my account immediately.

But on top of those mechanics, trains ******* SUCKED.
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Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#24 Jun 21 2010 at 6:21 AM Rating: Good
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I remember an exp party I had back in Garliage that turned into an exp alliance simply because it was impossible to stay for more than five minutes without a train coming and interrupting the party. Was a very different experience. Quite fun when I look back, but I know it wasn't really.

As for this being something people remeniss fondly about I can see that. There are a lot of stupid things I remeniss about and remember quite fondly, but when it actually happened it made me so angry. Time has a tendency to make things better than they were.

I'd prefer not being immensly ****** off at annoying and stupid mechanics when I play over having a fond memory of it years later, when all the bad things have been filtered out of memory and emotion.
#25 Jun 21 2010 at 8:06 AM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
There's some truth to what you say, and I don't think that things like trains were really even a major problem with XI. XI was a grind because leveling took far longer than it needed to.
Ah don't worry, I didn't mean to say FFXI wasn't a grind - I was trying to say that trains weren't a major problem, like you say. Suppose I coulda said that in one line, heh

guess that clarification didn't go over well ._.) I was starting to enjoy the XIV forums too. please forgive me

Edited, Jun 21st 2010 3:09pm by LordFaramir
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#26 Jun 25 2010 at 4:12 PM Rating: Decent
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wasn't there some talk about how the mobs would be able to follow you across zonelines in FFXIV?

#27 Jun 25 2010 at 4:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Ah, yes... The great trains of Garlaige and Crawlers' Nest. Urgh.
Tedious, but at least back then, there was still a sense of danger. Not that I enjoyed being unintentionally PKed, but at least it made me pay more attention.
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#28 Jun 25 2010 at 4:26 PM Rating: Good
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Sefalicious wrote:
Ah, yes... The great trains of Garlaige and Crawlers' Nest. Urgh.
Tedious, but at least back then, there was still a sense of danger. Not that I enjoyed being unintentionally PKed, but at least it made me pay more attention.


You got a good point in this, the trains caused alot of headache but it kinda added to the excitement as well. Being a WHM with nothing better to do went to these aread alot for free raises for people.
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#29 Jun 25 2010 at 4:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Puppy1 wrote:
You got a good point in this, the trains caused alot of headache but it kinda added to the excitement as well. Being a WHM with nothing better to do went to these aread alot for free raises for people.

Heh, indeed. :3 When I was really bored, I'd often sit outside the Selbina gate in Valkurm, or the Jungle/Kazham zone line to get rid of trains.

Garlaige trains were at least salvagable at times... But those stupid, slow Crawlers. Urgh. You made sure to have some oils with you once you got there.
It was always a hoot watching someone try to sneak by though - And then get noticed by the one or two aggressive mobs in the bunch. Insta-death. :D
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#30 Jun 25 2010 at 7:51 PM Rating: Decent
LordFaramir wrote:
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:

They were exciting until you realized how much of a waste of time they were. Yuhtunga Jungle (gob smithies), Garlaige Citadel (bats/beetles) and Crawler's Nest (crawlers) were terrible. And there were times where you could literally wait over half an hour for the zone line to clear because idiots would keep training everything back to the entrance. It was a poorly thought out mechanic and about the only people who truly enjoyed it were the BST who could exploit it to MPK people who ****** them off. When you need to call in high level help to clear a zone line so that you can get back to playing the game, something is broken.

Thanks for letting us know what we did or didn't enjoy, Aurelius.


I'm just going by what I saw when I played XI including my reaction as well as the reactions of people standing outside zones they had intended to XP in because entering would be almost a guaranteed death. I'm going by the number of parties that dissolved on the safe side of the CN, ********* and Jungle zone lines because it was just taking too **** long for the trains to clear. I'm going by the regular rant threads about lost XP and wasted time due to zone-line trains. And oddly enough, it wasn't until post-MPK nerf that anyone really spoke up in favor of them. Pretty easy to talk big and bad when teh threat is gone, isn't it?
#31 Jun 25 2010 at 11:37 PM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
LordFaramir wrote:
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:

They were exciting until you realized how much of a waste of time they were. Yuhtunga Jungle (gob smithies), Garlaige Citadel (bats/beetles) and Crawler's Nest (crawlers) were terrible. And there were times where you could literally wait over half an hour for the zone line to clear because idiots would keep training everything back to the entrance. It was a poorly thought out mechanic and about the only people who truly enjoyed it were the BST who could exploit it to MPK people who ****** them off. When you need to call in high level help to clear a zone line so that you can get back to playing the game, something is broken.

Thanks for letting us know what we did or didn't enjoy, Aurelius.


I'm just going by what I saw when I played XI including my reaction as well as the reactions of people standing outside zones they had intended to XP in because entering would be almost a guaranteed death. I'm going by the number of parties that dissolved on the safe side of the CN, sh*tadel, and Jungle zone lines because it was just taking too **** long for the trains to clear. I'm going by the regular rant threads about lost XP and wasted time due to zone-line trains. And oddly enough, it wasn't until post-MPK nerf that anyone really spoke up in favor of them. Pretty easy to talk big and bad when teh threat is gone, isn't it?


The solution of course is to put it back. :)
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#32 Jun 26 2010 at 12:58 AM Rating: Decent
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I like what they have done with XIV. Larger areas exist but still having zones allows them to take one or two sections down at a time instead of affecting the entire world.

Besides, we are talking about a loading time of seconds.. it's really not that big a deal.
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#33 Jun 26 2010 at 11:25 AM Rating: Decent
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if the zones in ffxiv are going to be as big as everyone is saying this worlds gonna be freaking huge
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#34 Jun 26 2010 at 11:29 AM Rating: Decent
izland wrote:
if the zones in ffxiv are going to be as big as everyone is saying this worlds gonna be freaking huge


There's no correlation between zone size and world size. Just because a zone in XIV will be the size of a region in XI doesn't mean XIV is going to have as many zones as XI did. I expect a large world that will grow larger as the game progresses through expansions but I wouldn't jump to any conclusions about just how large that might be.
#35 Jun 26 2010 at 11:42 AM Rating: Decent
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the wikidatabase list 28 regions in ffxi so you figure 4 zones per each . so say roughly 4 ffxi regions in 1 ffxiv region give or take. so 6ish regions is all ffxiv has to have to be bigger then ffxi which once again i must say its gonna be freaking huge
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#36 Jun 26 2010 at 11:53 AM Rating: Decent
izland wrote:
the wikidatabase list 28 regions in ffxi so you figure 4 zones per each . so say roughly 4 ffxi regions in 1 ffxiv region give or take. so 6ish regions is all ffxiv has to have to be bigger then ffxi which once again i must say its gonna be freaking huge


From the looks of the actually map, it's not going to be much bigger than XI. In fact, it looks like it will be about the same as XI was at launch. That's what you need to be looking at...the map...not assumptions about zones vs. regions vs. XI vs. XIV.
#37 Jun 26 2010 at 12:14 PM Rating: Decent
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you know it would be pretty cool if they had a real map that you could hold and i wonder what the scale key is for each world like 1 inch equals?
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#38 Jun 26 2010 at 12:28 PM Rating: Default
izland wrote:
you know it would be pretty cool if they had a real map that you could hold and i wonder what the scale key is for each world like 1 inch equals?


The real map sank with Christopher Columbus. 1 inch = cheese.
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