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#1 Jun 21 2010 at 12:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Is it going to be easier to obtain gil in XIV compared to XI cause when i played XI back in the day i had difficulties farming gil to buy good equipment and whatnot.
#2 Jun 21 2010 at 1:03 PM Rating: Good
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I really don't know and I don't have high hopes either. I read about some feedback that the beta folks gave to SE stating that Gil was still too hard to make and SE's response apparently was Guildleves.

It sounded to me like they didn't learn their lesson with XI in regards to currency, so I guess we will just have to wait for some kind of official announcement or lifting of the NDA.
#3 Jun 21 2010 at 1:07 PM Rating: Good
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I am afraid that, in a player based economy, the easier it is to obtain gil, the more things will cost. The harder it is to get the gil, the less they will cost. I don't think there is anything that can be done to make it easier except maybe put a cap on how much someone could charge for a particular item. Too much government intervention. Noooooo!!!!!! (sigh)
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#4 Jun 21 2010 at 1:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Kratore wrote:
Is it going to be easier to obtain gil in XIV compared to XI cause when i played XI back in the day i had difficulties farming gil to buy good equipment and whatnot.


I recently read that SE has altered how much gil is received from quests and has made it easier to obtain gil. Whether or not this will be same in the final release is unknown.

Regardless however, all of this is relative unless a majority of items are received from NPC's rather than from other players. The easier it is to get gil, the more expensive everything will be.
#5 Jun 21 2010 at 1:13 PM Rating: Decent
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I can't wait to see how the price of things will set on something. The first few crafters / gatherers must have a hard time deciding prices. (:
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#6 Jun 21 2010 at 1:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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Well that's a very way of looking at it though. Gil is as hard as it ever was in XI and there's still differences of 1+mil between a NQ and a HQ item in a lot of cases.

The entire system will need to be built better from the ground up, and that means availability of materials, better items available from NPCs at reasonable costs, and an economy that isn't wholly dependent on someone who has hit tier 999999 for HQ'ing things.

XI has a **** of a lot of things wrong with the way the economy is built, and it goes way beyond "Easier to make Gil means Higher Prices".
#7 Jun 21 2010 at 1:23 PM Rating: Good
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I agree with what Courtelise said. My view has always been the same on the matter, You make Gil simpler to get and things cost more. You make it harder to get, they cost less. Its all boils down to how much people are willing to shell out for an item. When it comes to mega rares though your always going to have people setting things insanely high no matter if there is alot of money in the market or not. There will almost always be someone willing to pay for it just to have the best of the best. Every game has its group of "elite" players who have to have that shiny +1 more stat then the normal guy.
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#8 Jun 21 2010 at 1:27 PM Rating: Excellent
I think starting at the same time as the Japanese will have a good impact on the economy. One of the main problems in FFXI originally leveling up, was the unrealistic expectations of what gear people should have while leveling up for the first time.
#9 Jun 21 2010 at 1:47 PM Rating: Good
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I think the original poster is really asking for it to be easier to obtain equipment. The cost of equipment is going to be tied directly to its perceived value, which is determined by the difficulty of crafting or obtaining that item. The amount of gil that perceived value equates is relative to the difficulty of obtaining gil, so you're not going to make it easier to obtain the item by making it easier to get gil.

I'm sure there are going to be plenty of high value items in FFXIV that will be just as difficult to get as they were in FFXI. I never felt like I had to farm for long periods of time in FFXI to get gear required to succeed at the game, but rather only to get gear other people thought I needed.
#10 Jun 21 2010 at 2:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Lamnethx of the Seven Seas wrote:
I think starting at the same time as the Japanese will have a good impact on the economy. One of the main problems in FFXI originally leveling up, was the unrealistic expectations of what gear people should have while leveling up for the first time.


This.

The price tag on an item came from a combination of "How 'needed' is it" + "How many are available" + "How easy is it to make (skill level)" + "How easy are the materials to get (price of mats or ease of farming"

As the great inflation demonstrated, when one thing goes up in price, everything that it affects goes up in price. If you make mats easier to get, the price drops (Weskit). If you make mats harder to get, the price goes up. If you introduce alternatives (Jaridah Peti), prices on other pieces (SH, Haub) will drop slightly.

Overall though, the ease of farming gil only affects the opposite numbers.

If it takes an hour to earn 10k gil and an item costs 20k, it will take 2 hours to get that item. If it takes an hour to earn 100k gil and an item costs 200k, it will take 2 hours to get that item.

It's not really a fully accurate statement to say "But in the second scenario, it's easier to get gil" because you still have to put in the same amount of work.

Ask your grandparents about when gas and bread and milk were 50 cents. Ask them what their hourly wage was. Now compare your hourly wage and how much gas, bread, and milk are now. As everyone earns more money, the prices on everything go up, because the people making those products are being paid more.

The problem is, you have farmers who sell mats to crafters, who sell finished goods, that farmers can buy. The more the farmers sell their goods for, the more they earn. The more the gods cost, the more the crafters charge, and so the farmers must now pay more for the product.

The only alternative is to do like some MMOGs do and let the enemies bleed gil. And that's terrible.
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#11 Jun 21 2010 at 4:04 PM Rating: Decent
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It really depends on how SE controls loot. Example: where does the important stuff for crafting come from? Say I have to do a fieldquest (a Discipline of land guildleve) that requires I get a full alliance to kill an HNM that rewards me with 'super ingredient x'. Another factor is how will SE control dropped loot. To use an FFXI analogy, can I get a one-time guildleve to kill Leaping Lizzy that rewards me with Leaping boots? I have doubts that SE will have NMs on a pop timer like with FFXI and will want to emphasize the use of guildleves, but you never know. Rare/ex is another possibility that SE will likely play around with for equipment as well as a bind on equip system. That would take a lot of gil out of the economy since you won't be reselling the same gear over and over.

It's still to early to say right now. But expect gil to be easier to get. Guildleves are pretty generous with the gil handouts and you get bonuses for finishing them fast in beta.
#12 Jun 21 2010 at 4:57 PM Rating: Good
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I hope that it is easier than it was in XI, when I left about 2yrs ago. I disliked the pains of crafting because it was a long time/gil sink process. It really depends on how they set up the economy to depend on how much gil you need to buy X item/items.
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#13 Jun 21 2010 at 5:01 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I can't wait to see how the price of things will set on something. The first few crafters / gatherers must have a hard time deciding prices. (:


Naw, not really. If you want to sell a product, you put it up at a fair price. If the product looks like something a lot of people will buy bump it up. No one is going to spend their bank account on a single thing -- at least not for low level stuff.
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#14 Jun 21 2010 at 5:13 PM Rating: Good
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The problem with XI is that earning income and playing the game were mutually exclusive.
Grinding on crabs for hours netted you great EXP, but no Gil. Grinding on Goobbue for hours netted you no EXP, but great Gil. Because Guildleves and mobs grant gil, you'll be getting a steady source of income as a natural result of playing the game.

Games generally want to naturally reward your successful play with what you need to continue playing. Quest-based gameplay, solo play, scaleable difficulty and guildleves throwing armor at you directly really help this. Your path of progress is something directed. Typically, the quest rewards are an expertly placed trail of breadcrumbs, just barely giving you the fuel to propel yourself onward while starving you enough to encourage the economy. As opposed to the self-inflicted chaos of freeform farming and camping, where the community carves out it's own path of progress that in no way correlates to the similarly chaotic and wholly unattached rewards (which unsurprisingly makes for all sorts of awkward barriers to progress).

Farming/crafting/gathering is less of a "necessary evil in order to accomplish base functionality" and more of a "I want that shiny thing, time to supplement my income".


Edited, Jun 21st 2010 9:41pm by Zemzelette
#15 Jun 21 2010 at 6:45 PM Rating: Good
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Well...how plentiful Gil is and how prices of items will be established are all rather hard/convoluted systems to be figured out.

It all boils down to economics, which is one of my favorite subjects but I'll try to keep this real brief. When it comes to how much Gil is out in the world and the player base...it can very easily lead to inflation. Inflation is simply to much money and not enough product, so the system naturally 'corrects' itself by making the product cost in proportion to the amount of money in the world...meaning more often then not even if alot of Gil can be made...everything will cost a bunch.

What might be more important then simply Gil in terms of the world of FFXIV is bartering. We have 3 groups of classes that are made to harmonize: Combat, Crafting, Gathering. They All need each other and work together in there own way. Yet out of the 3 groups, its Crafters and Gatherers that are all in direct competition with one another.

So lets say, for example Your a Gladiator who wants an amazing HQ sword that cost 1mill gil. It would take 1 month doing Guildleves to make that gil to simply buy it. Though there is a Miner who needs and escort to go mine the same metal that sword is made from. The miner gets class exp from getting the stuff and he agrees to split whatever he mines with you, so its win win for both of you so far.

You help the miner, get the material, and find a blacksmith that can make the sword. The Blacksmith gets class exp from making stuff and you've brought them this rare material thats hard to get anyway...so they offer a huge discount on what would be a 1mil sword.

Now you've got your sword for cheaper, and 3 people have profited from that endeavor! now of course this is all a 'in a perfect world' theory, but it might be helpful to try and approach things from different standpoints other then "need lots of gil for stuff".

#16 Jun 22 2010 at 9:03 AM Rating: Good
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This is why I plan on starting out as Fisherman as opposed to a melee or casting class. I'm hoping that fishing will provide a long-term source of income. I also plan on Culinarian, so I can cook what I catch.

That led to an idea I had the other day. On the FFXIV site, there's a section that talks about a woman who makes kabobs regularly, to the point where she can throw all the ingredients in the pan and cook them simultaneously. I'm hoping to be able to do that with a fish recipe or two, and my selling point would be that all those dishes are made with fish caught by my own hand. (Well, not literally. Catching fish barehanded seems a bit unsanitary.)
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#17 Jun 22 2010 at 4:48 PM Rating: Good
I didn't see it mentioned (might have missed it) but FF XIV has durability. The constant need to repair the tools and armour we use - especially since so much progress is directed through guildleves - will naturally consume a portion of income that didn't seem to ever really get spent in FFXI. I know there's still going to be inflation somewhere down the line, but I would have thought that that turnover would have a positive effect on it.
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#18 Jun 22 2010 at 4:53 PM Rating: Good
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Mieck, Pie Eating Champion wrote:
I didn't see it mentioned (might have missed it) but FF XIV has durability. The constant need to repair the tools and armour we use - especially since so much progress is directed through guildleves - will naturally consume a portion of income that didn't seem to ever really get spent in FFXI. I know there's still going to be inflation somewhere down the line, but I would have thought that that turnover would have a positive effect on it.


I just hope its balanced. The only thing worse than being in a party with someone who has ****** gear and isn't pulling their weight because "I can't afford new gear" is being in a party with someone with ****** broken gear because "I can't afford to repair it".

I do think that if XIV can combine making money with making XP (as opposed to having them be pretty much exclusive like XI was), it would help out a lot, and put an end to the "Well I don't have time to farm" argument.
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#19 Jun 22 2010 at 4:56 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia wrote:
Mieck, Pie Eating Champion wrote:
I didn't see it mentioned (might have missed it) but FF XIV has durability. The constant need to repair the tools and armour we use - especially since so much progress is directed through guildleves - will naturally consume a portion of income that didn't seem to ever really get spent in FFXI. I know there's still going to be inflation somewhere down the line, but I would have thought that that turnover would have a positive effect on it.


I just hope its balanced. The only thing worse than being in a party with someone who has sh*tty gear and isn't pulling their weight because "I can't afford new gear" is being in a party with someone with sh*tty broken gear because "I can't afford to repair it".

I do think that if XIV can combine making money with making XP (as opposed to having them be pretty much exclusive like XI was), it would help out a lot, and put an end to the "Well I don't have time to farm" argument.


Players can repair equipment, can do a "I'll fix now, you can pay me later"
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#20 Jun 22 2010 at 4:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Puppy1 wrote:
Mikhalia wrote:
Mieck, Pie Eating Champion wrote:
I didn't see it mentioned (might have missed it) but FF XIV has durability. The constant need to repair the tools and armour we use - especially since so much progress is directed through guildleves - will naturally consume a portion of income that didn't seem to ever really get spent in FFXI. I know there's still going to be inflation somewhere down the line, but I would have thought that that turnover would have a positive effect on it.


I just hope its balanced. The only thing worse than being in a party with someone who has sh*tty gear and isn't pulling their weight because "I can't afford new gear" is being in a party with someone with sh*tty broken gear because "I can't afford to repair it".

I do think that if XIV can combine making money with making XP (as opposed to having them be pretty much exclusive like XI was), it would help out a lot, and put an end to the "Well I don't have time to farm" argument.


Players can repair equipment, can do a "I'll fix now, you can pay me later"


Players can repair their own or each others' equipment? Now this I hadn't heard, and I'm really liking the sound of. I'd also like to know more about how it works (e.g. whether you need a weaver to repair cloth, a tanner to repair leather, a blacksmith to repair metal, or whether there's an "armorsmith" and a "weaponsmith", etc...)

That's pretty cool though.
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#21 Jun 22 2010 at 5:17 PM Rating: Decent
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Im preety sure they can from what I read peicing things together, dont have much info on it as of yet of course.. **** NDA blocking our good info lol. If you read the "leroy" deciplin thing on the official site it says he repairs his own equipment, Also during a few inter views in the same scentance they talk about needing the crafter to survive and how armor and weapons will need repair. So im preety sure, not 100% of course, but looks liek you will be able to repair other players equipment. Least I hope so.
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#22 Jun 22 2010 at 5:18 PM Rating: Good
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Mikhalia wrote:
Puppy1 wrote:
Mikhalia wrote:
Mieck, Pie Eating Champion wrote:
I didn't see it mentioned (might have missed it) but FF XIV has durability. The constant need to repair the tools and armour we use - especially since so much progress is directed through guildleves - will naturally consume a portion of income that didn't seem to ever really get spent in FFXI. I know there's still going to be inflation somewhere down the line, but I would have thought that that turnover would have a positive effect on it.


I just hope its balanced. The only thing worse than being in a party with someone who has sh*tty gear and isn't pulling their weight because "I can't afford new gear" is being in a party with someone with sh*tty broken gear because "I can't afford to repair it".

I do think that if XIV can combine making money with making XP (as opposed to having them be pretty much exclusive like XI was), it would help out a lot, and put an end to the "Well I don't have time to farm" argument.


Players can repair equipment, can do a "I'll fix now, you can pay me later"


Players can repair their own or each others' equipment? Now this I hadn't heard, and I'm really liking the sound of. I'd also like to know more about how it works (e.g. whether you need a weaver to repair cloth, a tanner to repair leather, a blacksmith to repair metal, or whether there's an "armorsmith" and a "weaponsmith", etc...)

That's pretty cool though.

It was stated in one of the interviews that players with the appropriate skills (I'm guessing Blacksmith) can repair another player's weapon without having to actually trade it. I would imagine the same can be said for armor/clothing. Your thinking about weavers, tanners, etc. parallels mine.

That was another reason I was planning on becoming Culinarian; I'm hoping to barter food for repairs.
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#23 Jun 22 2010 at 5:22 PM Rating: Good
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My favorite way of making gil in FFXI was NM hunting...most people considered it boring but it was oddly relaxing and stimulating at the same time for me...

I was sad to hear they removed a lot of that from FFXI...chances are it wont exist in FFXIV but I'd be a happy man if it did.
#24 Jun 22 2010 at 5:28 PM Rating: Good
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Yogtheterrible wrote:
My favorite way of making gil in FFXI was NM hunting...most people considered it boring but it was oddly relaxing and stimulating at the same time for me...

I was sad to hear they removed a lot of that from FFXI...chances are it wont exist in FFXIV but I'd be a happy man if it did.


I've given it an attempt from time to time, I loved the camping part of NM hunting, but I disliked the competition and the low drop rates.

Camping Western Shadow solo without anyone else around was pretty enjoyable for me. Camping Mee Deggi with 5 other people around (three of them gilsellers) was not so much enjoyable; more "stressful".

I personally preferred pop NMs and farming goods that allowed me to have a steady income, more than a "hit or miss" like NMs were, but I know a lot of people who liked it so I don't think it should be totally absent.
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#25 Jun 22 2010 at 7:33 PM Rating: Decent
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I'd like to know a whole lot more about this durability on equipment deal too. They stated that Classes like Blacksmith would be able to get a 'confirmation to check your equipment' so they can then inspect and repair it, but they haven gone into the process of repair (or really much of anything on crafting)

If repair is just a skill Crafters have...why would they even need to charge for it? kind of like the idea of a White mage charging for cures. Though if it IS meant to be a gil sink, there is a good chance repairing might require some sort of disposable material that gets used up in the repair process.

I wonder if it will take high level crafters to repair high level equipment...using high level tools. I see it majorly sucking for some Gladiator who has a super amazing sword...that they can't use since no crafter around has the skills to repair it yet...

Edited, Jun 22nd 2010 9:33pm by SideCH
#26 Jun 22 2010 at 8:42 PM Rating: Good
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SideCH wrote:
If repair is just a skill Crafters have...why would they even need to charge for it?

You have a job, don't you? You get paid for it, right? Same concept.

The more experience and specialization you have in a skill, the more you can expect to get paid for it. It's like the difference between an BA and a Ph.D.
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#27 Jun 22 2010 at 8:48 PM Rating: Good
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It's also a handy way to offset the insane amount of money you've sunk into the craft. I never charged to synth my LS's stuff, but anyone else got a surcharge if they needed something whipped up.
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#28 Jun 22 2010 at 9:53 PM Rating: Decent
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I really don't think gil is that hard to obtain. It probably won't overfloweth, but I've never heard any complaints about difficulty obtaining gil.

As for crafters charging, why else would you craft? That's basically the point of crafting for most crafters-- like starting up your own business. Combat classes try to reach the top of their game by collecting gear and such. Crafters aim to make gil.
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#29 Jun 22 2010 at 10:44 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
I really don't think gil is that hard to obtain. It probably won't overfloweth, but I've never heard any complaints about difficulty obtaining gil.

As for crafters charging, why else would you craft? That's basically the point of crafting for most crafters-- like starting up your own business. Combat classes try to reach the top of their game by collecting gear and such. Crafters aim to make gil.


Yeah, there's a difference between leveling a combat/support class, in which you spend some money to get stronger, versus leveling a crafting class, in which you spend A LOT of money in order to (hopefully) make more.

Friend to friend, it's not uncommon to do things for free, but ultimately the argument could be made that "If you don't want to have to pay someone else to repair your gear, level your own repair skill"

The argument "It's like charging for cures" is not valid because whether you're curing, tanking, or DD, you're getting XP and loot. Conversely, if you give someone broken armor and they fix it for you, they aren't inherently getting anything out of that to offset the time they put into leveling their craft. If a crafter isn't going to make money leveling a craft, very few people will bother.

There are very few people of the "crafters should never charge" mindset who have actually put time into leveling a craft to 80+ in FFXI. This is because once you get to that point and realize how much money and time you have invested into it, it's not unreasonable to expected to be reimbursed for a service you provide. 99% of the time, someone insisting that "All you have to do is click a couple buttons" and that there should therefore be no fee has almost never leveled any craft beyond 50. Most haven't leveled to 10+.

Of course, if you disagree with me and feel that crafters should never charge, then you're certainly entitled to level your own craft and go around not charging for it. No one is going to tell you that you -have- to charge for it, and if you want to sink your money into a profession with zero ROI, then it's your $15/month (or whatever) and you're entitled to do so.
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#30 Jun 23 2010 at 12:18 AM Rating: Good
SideCH wrote:
I'd like to know a whole lot more about this durability on equipment deal too. They stated that Classes like Blacksmith would be able to get a 'confirmation to check your equipment' so they can then inspect and repair it, but they haven gone into the process of repair (or really much of anything on crafting)

If repair is just a skill Crafters have...why would they even need to charge for it? kind of like the idea of a White mage charging for cures. Though if it IS meant to be a gil sink, there is a good chance repairing might require some sort of disposable material that gets used up in the repair process.


A while back SE said that tools would have durability just like weapons and armor, and repairing gear would fall into the category of something that would reduce the durability of your tools so it won't be a free process to repair gear. My only hope is that repairs aren't left exclusively to the players. I'm largely expecting to see repair NPCs as well. Personally, I plan on playing a Gladiator with Blacksmith progressed along with it specifically to benefit from the synnergy between the classes. I have absolutely no interest in having to spam around for a blacksmith to fix my gear.
#31 Jun 23 2010 at 3:22 AM Rating: Decent
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My take on the gil issue is very optimistic mostly because we'll all start with the JP at launch. The majority of the gil problems of XI was a result of no supply. See D ingot and V claw as an example of 2004 economics. Erase is another perfect example. I remember paying 500k for it, it's like 3k now. The other problem was botters of all kinds. The HNM crowd and fisherman to be more precise. Guildeves should solve both of these problems if all things go without a hitch. If NPC's sell hauby's and keep the price stable, we won't have people buying gil this time and ruining the economy. Inflation thanks to RMT working 24/7 to sell gil and messing up the economy should be a huge wake up call for SE. As it stands now, we do Guildeves and profit. It's like farming without all the wasted time. Guildeves is more like a skill up party. :)
#32 Jun 23 2010 at 8:03 AM Rating: Good
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The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
SideCH wrote:
I'd like to know a whole lot more about this durability on equipment deal too. They stated that Classes like Blacksmith would be able to get a 'confirmation to check your equipment' so they can then inspect and repair it, but they haven gone into the process of repair (or really much of anything on crafting)

If repair is just a skill Crafters have...why would they even need to charge for it? kind of like the idea of a White mage charging for cures. Though if it IS meant to be a gil sink, there is a good chance repairing might require some sort of disposable material that gets used up in the repair process.


A while back SE said that tools would have durability just like weapons and armor, and repairing gear would fall into the category of something that would reduce the durability of your tools so it won't be a free process to repair gear. My only hope is that repairs aren't left exclusively to the players. I'm largely expecting to see repair NPCs as well. Personally, I plan on playing a Gladiator with Blacksmith progressed along with it specifically to benefit from the synnergy between the classes. I have absolutely no interest in having to spam around for a blacksmith to fix my gear.

Hypothetical situation: we end up on the same server. You're a Blacksmith. I'm a Culinarian. Would you barter food for repairs?
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#33 Jun 23 2010 at 8:48 AM Rating: Good
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Ralrra wrote:
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
SideCH wrote:
I'd like to know a whole lot more about this durability on equipment deal too. They stated that Classes like Blacksmith would be able to get a 'confirmation to check your equipment' so they can then inspect and repair it, but they haven gone into the process of repair (or really much of anything on crafting)

If repair is just a skill Crafters have...why would they even need to charge for it? kind of like the idea of a White mage charging for cures. Though if it IS meant to be a gil sink, there is a good chance repairing might require some sort of disposable material that gets used up in the repair process.


A while back SE said that tools would have durability just like weapons and armor, and repairing gear would fall into the category of something that would reduce the durability of your tools so it won't be a free process to repair gear. My only hope is that repairs aren't left exclusively to the players. I'm largely expecting to see repair NPCs as well. Personally, I plan on playing a Gladiator with Blacksmith progressed along with it specifically to benefit from the synnergy between the classes. I have absolutely no interest in having to spam around for a blacksmith to fix my gear.

Hypothetical situation: we end up on the same server. You're a Blacksmith. I'm a Culinarian. Would you barter food for repairs?


Heh I would, bartering for stuff is great, hey i need my sword fixed, I have this item here that I get lots of where I grind, willing to trade some? Why yes, yes i am! I cant go to that location often and i do need thoes or know sombody who does! Bartering is great :)
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#34 Jun 23 2010 at 10:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Hypothetical situation: we end up on the same server. You're a Blacksmith. I'm a Culinarian. Would you barter food for repairs?


I would assuming it was a reasonable deal, though I want to go ahead and clear this up before it becomes a common misconception:
Armorers will do repairs, not blacksmiths.
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#35 Jun 23 2010 at 10:58 PM Rating: Good
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Ralrra wrote:
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
SideCH wrote:
I'd like to know a whole lot more about this durability on equipment deal too. They stated that Classes like Blacksmith would be able to get a 'confirmation to check your equipment' so they can then inspect and repair it, but they haven gone into the process of repair (or really much of anything on crafting)

If repair is just a skill Crafters have...why would they even need to charge for it? kind of like the idea of a White mage charging for cures. Though if it IS meant to be a gil sink, there is a good chance repairing might require some sort of disposable material that gets used up in the repair process.


A while back SE said that tools would have durability just like weapons and armor, and repairing gear would fall into the category of something that would reduce the durability of your tools so it won't be a free process to repair gear. My only hope is that repairs aren't left exclusively to the players. I'm largely expecting to see repair NPCs as well. Personally, I plan on playing a Gladiator with Blacksmith progressed along with it specifically to benefit from the synnergy between the classes. I have absolutely no interest in having to spam around for a blacksmith to fix my gear.

Hypothetical situation: we end up on the same server. You're a Blacksmith. I'm a Culinarian. Would you barter food for repairs?


I don't see why that's a bad idea for anyone.
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#36 Jun 23 2010 at 11:18 PM Rating: Good
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Kachi wrote:
Quote:
Hypothetical situation: we end up on the same server. You're a Blacksmith. I'm a Culinarian. Would you barter food for repairs?


I would assuming it was a reasonable deal, though I want to go ahead and clear this up before it becomes a common misconception:
Armorers will do repairs, not blacksmiths.

I'm guessing I missed the part about the armorers doing repairs. Do you have a link or quote or something?

As far as a reasonable deal goes, I would expect as much. Since I also plan on playing Lancer, let's assume I have a polearm that requires 60 skill to fix. (Again, hypothetical; I don't know how repairs work yet.) I would plan to trade food that would require at least that much skill to make.
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#37 Jun 23 2010 at 11:31 PM Rating: Decent
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Sorry, I read pretty much everything that comes out about the game and archive it in my head sans tags, so especially with E3 recently, all of my brain smarts are one big blur blur.

It's totally possible as of yet that the duties are at least partially divided between crafting classes, such that Carpenters repair wooden weapons and Blacksmiths repair metal ones, but last I knew, these classes predominantly MAKE things, and repairs are left to Armorers. Not sure if that's confirmed for retail though.
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Hyrist wrote:
Ok, now we're going to get slash fiction of Wint x Kachi somehere... rule 34 and all...

Never confuse your inference as the listener for an implication of the speaker.

Good games are subjective like good food is subjective. You're not going to seriously tell me that there's not a psychological basis for why pizza is great and lutefisk is revolting. The thing about subjectivity is that, as subjects go, humans actually have a great deal in common.
#38 Jun 24 2010 at 12:08 AM Rating: Decent
Ralrra wrote:
A while back SE said that tools would have durability just like weapons and armor, and repairing gear would fall into the category of something that would reduce the durability of your tools so it won't be a free process to repair gear. My only hope is that repairs aren't left exclusively to the players. I'm largely expecting to see repair NPCs as well. Personally, I plan on playing a Gladiator with Blacksmith progressed along with it specifically to benefit from the synnergy between the classes. I have absolutely no interest in having to spam around for a blacksmith to fix my gear.

Hypothetical situation: we end up on the same server. You're a Blacksmith. I'm a Culinarian. Would you barter food for repairs?[/quote]

It's hard to say, but not for the reason that might come to mind first. I personally wouldn't see repairing gear for others as a means to try and generate any significant profit. Something tells me that your food would be worth more than a one-time repair and in that case I might accept small donations of food but as long as I'm not walking away poorer for the transaction, I'd be happy.
#39 Jun 24 2010 at 8:15 PM Rating: Decent
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huh...that little bit about Armorers piqued my interest. Is there any information on such a class existing...that would focus predominantly on repair and repair only? It would almost sound like most crafting classes would want to gain Armorer skills along with there main classes skill...though all of that is a whole lot more speculation.

Though if there is a classes dedicated to repairs...would that mean repairing would need to happen more often then we would expect (which would really work as a gil sink) but bahh, thats just way more speculating (and if its true, it sounds like my new class set up is Blacksmith full time with part time Armorer)
#40 Jun 24 2010 at 8:45 PM Rating: Good
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A thought.

I didn't really like Eve because it felt boring and empty to me (Somehow it seems like the developers managed to take the idea of space, which is already empty and boring, and make it MORE empty and MORE boring, but I digress; that's just my opinion). But one thing I -did- like about the idea behind it is that the economy is ENTIRELY player driven.

NPCs are virtually nonexistent. Players harvest resources and sell them to builders. Players design schematics for ships. Builders buy these schematics and resources to build ships and sell them to other players, who use these ships to harvest more resources or fight or whatever they want.

Granted the game wasn't for me, but the idea of it was what got me to try it; the thought that players control everything. Let's extend this to FFXIV for a moment, in theory.

Players harvest and mine goods, sell them to other players who produce armor, weapons, food, who sell them to other players who fight, or maybe just go harvest and mine some more. If your armor breaks, you go to another player. If you want to make money and you have a trade, you can barter it to another player.

It's weird when you're used to MMORPGs being a giant circle of "level up, get gear, level up more, get more gear" where crafting and farming are just tacked on. but the idea of having a game where progression does not -have- to primarily involve fighting is a great one (like I said; Eve does it).

If you're someone who just wants to make money, or someone who just wants to sit in town and craft armor, and maybe you really don't want to leave town to go fight things... you have that option. Granted, I'm more of a "fight things" guy, but that's not everyone's thing, and that's cool.

If the game turns out in such an open way where you really are free to develop your character in any form, I think that's a really great niche to carve out in a market full of "Level up, get gear, level up, get gear".

Anyone can copy what another company is doing successfully. But it takes a genius (or a fool) to try something new.
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#41 Jun 24 2010 at 10:04 PM Rating: Decent
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Ahh I hear what your saying Mikhalia and quite honestly its the Idea of a player driven 'everything' that makes me exited to...but I also hope for some form of 'regulation'. Well...not mega regulation but little small things to keep things on the safe side for some.

A free market for everyone is ripe with exploitation. In a very strange way, Crafting and Gathering classes are PvP classes, since there efforts to gain gil is the driving force and to compete with others in the market.

And you want that, you want them to compete. It keeps item prices low which is good for the consumer and it drives on competition to make greater items and obtain greater material all for the sake of gil.

But...and this is really odd but its very true for all of economics, you DON'T want the Crafters and Gatherers working together with there respective competitors themselves. An example would be a huge coalition of Miners all working together to control the price of ore and maximize there own profits at the expense of the consumer.

Speaking of EVE, here are some quick examples of some of the problems that happened; here is a guy that tricked a bunch of investors into giving him money...which he then took and ran with it:

http://kotaku.com/5441296/eve-online-player-turns-robin-hood

Here we have a EVE bank going under:

http://kotaku.com/5348223/bank-deficit-freezes-eve-accounts

But probably the most important article, is how the huge scandals really boosted the game as a whole!

http://kotaku.com/5163287/eve-online-scandals-are-good-for-business

So perhaps messing up other players can be good for business. My point is still being they should have some NPC's that sell good to moderate stuff to keep some of the more 'advantages' players in check from having a strong hold on the economy.

#42 Jun 24 2010 at 10:58 PM Rating: Good
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SideCH wrote:
Ahh I hear what your saying Mikhalia and quite honestly its the Idea of a player driven 'everything' that makes me exited to...but I also hope for some form of 'regulation'. Well...not mega regulation but little small things to keep things on the safe side for some.

A free market for everyone is ripe with exploitation. In a very strange way, Crafting and Gathering classes are PvP classes, since there efforts to gain gil is the driving force and to compete with others in the market.

And you want that, you want them to compete. It keeps item prices low which is good for the consumer and it drives on competition to make greater items and obtain greater material all for the sake of gil.

But...and this is really odd but its very true for all of economics, you DON'T want the Crafters and Gatherers working together with there respective competitors themselves. An example would be a huge coalition of Miners all working together to control the price of ore and maximize there own profits at the expense of the consumer.

Speaking of EVE, here are some quick examples of some of the problems that happened; here is a guy that tricked a bunch of investors into giving him money...which he then took and ran with it:

http://kotaku.com/5441296/eve-online-player-turns-robin-hood

Here we have a EVE bank going under:

http://kotaku.com/5348223/bank-deficit-freezes-eve-accounts

But probably the most important article, is how the huge scandals really boosted the game as a whole!

http://kotaku.com/5163287/eve-online-scandals-are-good-for-business

So perhaps messing up other players can be good for business. My point is still being they should have some NPC's that sell good to moderate stuff to keep some of the more 'advantages' players in check from having a strong hold on the economy.



Another thing to remember is that Eve is all one server with everyone on it. FFXIV is made of several different servers. So it would be pretty difficult for a group of people to affect the economies of servers other than their own. Not that it'd be impossible... just really hard.
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#43 Jun 24 2010 at 11:12 PM Rating: Decent
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Random stat equipment drops you can use or sell are great, not just wow had these; many successful games did. Also materials for crafts (i.e. cloth for first aid) sell well and give people a good source of starter money.
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#44 Jun 25 2010 at 8:11 AM Rating: Decent
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It's hard, how do you balance it. With a player driven economy they could make it... "easy" but with 1 slip up on item drops or anything it might become more difficult and item prices will inflate.

Every game has this issue and will always have the issue. I don't care if it's hard to make money i just don't want RMT sitting around the corner or people gloating about how the are max money... because they probably cheated 1 way or another to max money.

There will always be rich and poor it's the way of the world, i just hope it doesn't come at the cost of those who work really hard to get somewhere.
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