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#1 Jun 25 2010 at 1:31 PM Rating: Good
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I'm wondering if those spell effects that we see in the footage so far are also final.

One of the things that really sold me on final fantasy XI that I missed whenever I tried other MMO's is the epic feel that the spells gave. There was nothing quite like seeing somebody pull off a Light skillchain for the first time, or the ancient magic.

Even the most basic everyday skills in FFXI are more artistically appealing than anything i've seen in FFXIV so far. Boost for instance, one of the most simple effects in FFXI, Had little electric tendrils jumping across the surface of your characters body, the area around you would blur slightly, giving a sense of heat/power, rocks would raise from the ground, and float like something from a Dragon Ball Z episode.

I'm not usually a big whiner when it comes to graphics, i'm a big advocate of gameplay>graphics, but I think the effects of all the abilities and spells really made it have that epic feel, and I could never wait to get my next weapon skill or ability, if not just to see what it looks like.

So far in FFXIV, i've seen probably 2 spells/ability effects. Both were *extremely* underwhelming. Take Red Lotus Blade for instance. In FFXI, it was a burning blade with a secondary explosion that looked amazing for it's time. In FFXIV it looks like a little **** of something that resembles fire.

The other effects i've seen seem to all be a twist on the same effect, which is a simple small glow effect in the waist when the characters use an ability. The only difference i've seen between the different abilities are color differences.

This stuff again is so incredibly underwhelming compared to abilities in FFXI, and I hope they consider redoing, and amping up the spell effects in FFXIV.

Edited, Jun 25th 2010 3:46pm by FeanaroOnPhoenix
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#2 Jun 25 2010 at 1:36 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm of the opposite opinion, I guess. I hope they don't go *too* overboard with the effects. It hinders performance and can make the screen look like an explosion of psychedelic colors without meaning or purpose. I'm sure they will have options to turn off the effects if we so choose, but a better way to handle it might be not to add them in excess to begin with.
#3 Jun 25 2010 at 1:37 PM Rating: Good
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I'm certain that the Beta will have better effects, along with the higher level of graphics.
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#4 Jun 25 2010 at 1:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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We've barely seen anything.
#5 Jun 25 2010 at 1:49 PM Rating: Decent
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I understand the other side of the arguement, that going too overboard with effects makes things cluttered, they could simply add an option to tone down the effects.

My idea would be to have 3 layers for every effect, when you have the FX setting maxed out, you get all 3 layers. When you have it set all the way down you only get something like the color queue, the simplist part of the effect.

That way each player can customize it to their liking, and you could also lower it if you were going into something like dynamis, and increase it for regular leveling.

Bottom line, it wouldn't take anything away from the game to have it, it would only add something for the people that loved the effects from FFXI.
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came back to life.
#6 Jun 25 2010 at 1:52 PM Rating: Good
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edhoo wrote:
We've barely seen anything.



We've seen quite a bit actually. I've seen enough to get a first impression. They also said something to the effect of...

"graphics are pretty much done, one thing we'll be working on between alpha and beta is lighting"

and they did work on the lighting, the lighting looks much better, gotta admit, they didn't say anything about effects work.

Also, when a game goes into Beta it usually means graphics are final, except for optimizations, and things like anisotropic filtering, and anti aliasing.
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came back to life.
#7 Jun 25 2010 at 2:19 PM Rating: Good
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We haven't seen much magic though (well at least I haven't, if there are videos of it somewhere then my mistake).
#8 Jun 25 2010 at 2:22 PM Rating: Good
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edhoo wrote:
We haven't seen much magic though (well at least I haven't, if there are videos of it somewhere then my mistake).


I havent seen much myself, i think a fire spell somehwere but thats about it. Does anybody have a link that would not violate NDA? I wouldnt mind seeing some magic use before I really make an opinion.

Edited, Jun 25th 2010 4:23pm by Puppy1
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#9 Jun 25 2010 at 2:45 PM Rating: Good
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That is true, we have not seen very much magic, maybe a glimpse of some in the newest trailer. I'm not passing final judgment or anything, i'm saying it's something of a concern of mine.

On a side note, if that part in the trailer where ifrit comes out happens when you summon ifrit with the inevitable addition of the summoner class, then I have no complaints lol

Yes, I do realize it was a cutscene, but if it's sort of the flavor they're going for, i.e. big flashy effects, then i'm down :)
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came back to life.
#10 Jun 25 2010 at 2:55 PM Rating: Good
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I would not worry about the "flashy" integrity that FFXIV has to offer spellwise. I have a good feeling that SE has taken a better approach than in FFXI.
Quote:
Even the most basic everyday skills in FFXI are more artistically appealing than anything i've seen in FFXIV so far.

I think this is because we have not seen any of the high level spells that FFXIV has to offer. FFXI in my opinion had a bit too much on the lower end of effects on spells. Seeing so much happen for a minor ability like "Provoke" or "Boost" made the higher level spells seem that much less impressive. I believe the effects will increase accordingly as we gain skills, as it should be.
#11 Jun 25 2010 at 2:56 PM Rating: Decent
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We haven't seen anything. You seen a few weapon-skills (skewer and red lotus come to mind) and maybe 1 spell if anything. Most of the videos have people just using the basic attack that each job gets, and the only magic video that I have seen, was just him using the basic attack that the magic class gets.

I say hold judgment until you actually get to play the game yourself, or until you get to see a more polished version of the game then alpha (and the few beta videos that you saw).
#12 Jun 25 2010 at 2:57 PM Rating: Decent
FeanaroOnPhoenix wrote:
That is true, we have not seen very much magic, maybe a glimpse of some in the newest trailer. I'm not passing final judgment or anything, i'm saying it's something of a concern of mine.

On a side note, if that part in the trailer where ifrit comes out happens when you summon ifrit with the inevitable addition of the summoner class, then I have no complaints lol

Yes, I do realize it was a cutscene, but if it's sort of the flavor they're going for, i.e. big flashy effects, then i'm down :)


Considering that we haven't really seen anyone playing any caster classes up close in any of the "Class rank 40, physical level 1" demos (we've seen casters, but haven't really had a chance to see them do much) and the alpha goes up to level 20, I'm not really sure what it is you might have been hoping for. You referenced things like ancient magic and light skillchains in your OP...both things you don't see until characters are much more progressed. Hard to compare near-endgame type abilities that are meant to impress to lowbie abilities that are meant to give you a visual indicator that something happened and not much else.
#13 Jun 25 2010 at 2:59 PM Rating: Good
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SleeplessMickey wrote:
I would not worry about the "flashy" integrity that FFXIV has to offer spellwise. I have a good feeling that SE has taken a better approach than in FFXI.
Quote:
Even the most basic everyday skills in FFXI are more artistically appealing than anything i've seen in FFXIV so far.

I think this is because we have not seen any of the high level spells that FFXIV has to offer. FFXI in my opinion had a bit too much on the lower end of effects on spells. Seeing so much happen for a minor ability like "Provoke" or "Boost" made the higher level spells seem that much less impressive. I believe the effects will increase accordingly as we gain skills, as it should be.


That's a good point. I'm also hoping that effects scale properly with the usefulness of the abilities. I always hated that my Ranger's most powerful WS "Sidewinder" had easily the worst looking effects of all the weaponskills. Arching Arrow looked so much better, but there was rarely incentive to use it.
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#14 Jun 25 2010 at 3:14 PM Rating: Good
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The video below shows a Conjurer(??) using an AOE healing spell several times, starts at 1:24, haven't seen much else really aside from that one Thaumaturge spell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anxTH19xy-k

One thing I've always liked about FFXI is the "classification" of spell effect animations, e.g a white magic spell will always begin with those lovely little bubbles floating upwards and so on. Overall the effects were always great, aside from a few JA, Meditate comes to mind, what the **** is that?

From what I can see the style for FFXIV is more akin to Vagrant Story or Final Fantasy XII, A little more subdued but still nice looking overall
#15 Jun 25 2010 at 3:23 PM Rating: Good
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I think there may be a technical reason for that.

Because of the armory system, every weaponskill needs to make sense when occurring with any weapon.
They can't really rely on the character's animation to define what a weaponskill is, because bringing down a staff to slam on an enemy's head may make sense with a sword but is silly with a wand.

So far it seems they're solving this by assigning unique particle effects to each skill and giving each weapon a handful of 'generic weaponskill' animations. People end up ignoring the character's animation and associating the particle effect with the skill itself. People think they're performing Red Lotus regardless of their character spinning around to strike with a sword or letting loose an arrow, so long as they see the flame.

When you have to make sure each and every weaponskill has a unique particle system, your going to treat your bag of tricks like a miser. The more interesting things they add to a single animation, the less they have for other animations and still hope to keep them reasonably distinct from one another. This is considering they also can't step on the toes of any Non-damage skills (Refill), Non-combat skills (crafting abilities), Magic spells (WaterIV), Unique abilities of Monsters (Crab water breath), Environmental effects (waves crashing on a shore), Gameplay effects (level up), and Battle Regiments (if they go that way, no idea really).

Also, I agree with the whole 'future abilities need to look awesome so you feel like your character is getting stronger' train of thought.





>.>; I'm more worried by that video. The player wasting a perfectly good opportunity to recover his very low HP by running hither and yon with his bow out. Is it possible to have a pet peeve before I've even played the damned thing?



Edited, Jun 25th 2010 6:24pm by Zemzelette
#16 Jun 25 2010 at 7:28 PM Rating: Decent
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well i think once you play the game for a while and get the rush/feeling of using a certain spell, that the spell animations will mean more too you, kind of like watching your favorites song's music video for the first time.
in FFXI i used to get goose bumps from the LONG casting of ancient magic (freeze, quake, tornado, ect) and also the sound of the weapon Skill Guillotine. i played allot of MMORPG"S and NONE have gave me a single goose bump from simply casting a spell!
#17 Jun 25 2010 at 8:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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First off. Hi Baldy! Secondly, I agree that FFXI's ability to let you feel the power of your spells and abilities is second to none. The first time I saw Guillotine I was level 23 in Qufim and a mithra DRK whailed it into a gigas for like...370 dmg. I was like :O :O :O *scoops up jaw + face with my pld shield*
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#18 Jun 25 2010 at 9:29 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah spell effects in ffxi were one of the "selling points" to get some people to ignore the slow combat and rigorous questing/mission requirements to stick it out and give the game a try. I would always show friends I was trying to recruit ancient magic and magic bursts to try and get em to quit wow. Oh well if you can't beat em, join em I guess. I do hope they have some big spells in store for higher content. We'll see :)
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#19 Jun 26 2010 at 1:49 PM Rating: Good
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I'm of the opposite opinion, I guess. I hope they don't go *too* overboard with the effects. It hinders performance and can make the screen look like an explosion of psychedelic colors without meaning or purpose. I'm sure they will have options to turn off the effects if we so choose, but a better way to handle it might be not to add them in excess to begin with.



I kind of felt like this too. I think they went a little overboard with the simple abilities. I'm all for ancient magic crashing planets into each other and having universes explode but for simple things like boost I think they should have gone with only a minor effect.
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