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My opinion on console mmoFollow

#1 Jun 30 2010 at 9:03 PM Rating: Default
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I honestly see no reason to play this game on a console. I believe there are certain games that are fine for all platforms, the fps is a fine example of this. However other genres such as the RTS and MMO's just do not belong on a console, the limitations are just mountainous. I cannot even fathom why a person would even want to do this.

Communication is a keystone of the mmo game and without a keyboard at the ready you have such a disconnect. Not to mention you do not have access to the rest of the internet, (yes I suppose you could have a laptop next to you but that is quite a pain). Programs like ventrilo and many other community building tools are not at your disposal. Sure you can buy a special keyboard and mouse but they are not as functional or as easy to use plus you are still using a controller and that means you cannot play and type at the same time. Also you are limited by the power of the hardware, you will never be able to make your game look better and don't even try argue about computers costing more, you can easily build a computer for 600 dollars or less that will blow away any current game out there. A ps3 with attachments can run 400 dollars or more and you haven't even taken into account the hd tv you need as well.

Sure it may be nice to relax on the couch while playing an mmo, that would make the 4 hour raids more tolerable. But there are just too many limitations to make it even something I would ever consider. Say no to console mmo's you will be doing yourself a favor.

Mostly I am just responding to all the outrage about the ps3 release date, from a personal perspective my brother and I both played ffxi. I used a computer and he used a ps2, throughout our years playing I could not count how many times he would lament his choice. I am just trying to inform people of the bad idea it is to play an mmo on a system built around the single player.

I apologize if I came out a little harsh, it was not my intention to antagonize. I just am truly boggled at a system that is just not user friendly and I cannot see how it could be useful. Maybe I am just too hardcore and set in my ways, but the disadvantages of a console to a mmo are too much for me to work with.

One poster mentioned that tons of people played the game and had no problems using the console. Sure that may be true up to a certain level, if you are a casual player then sure I guess you could get by. But if you are trying to tell me that a console player could react and communicate and play to the level of a computer player at the high end competitive level of play then I am sorry you are just wrong. If you stick to the keyboard and mouse yes then it is possible but if you use a controller then I am sorry but you are only handicapping yourself.

Edited, Jun 30th 2010 11:30pm by tilday
#2 Jun 30 2010 at 9:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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Sure you can buy a special keyboard and mouse but they are not as functional or as easy to use plus you are still using a controller and that means you cannot play and type at the same time.


Just wanted to point out that you could play FFXI fully without using a controller and only the keyboard. Personally, I don't see the reason for this topic. I mean, no matter what you say, FFXIV is coming out on the PS3 and it doesn't really matter what you think about whether MMOs should or should not be on consoles.
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#4 Jun 30 2010 at 9:12 PM Rating: Excellent
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tilday wrote:
Communication is a keystone of the mmo game and without a keyboard at the ready you have such a disconnect. ... Sure you can buy a special keyboard and mouse but they are not as functional or as easy to use plus you are still using a controller and that means you cannot play and type at the same time.


The PS2, PS3, and XBox 360 all have standard USB ports, and thus can use any USB keyboard or mouse; no special console-specific peripherals needed.
#5 Jun 30 2010 at 9:13 PM Rating: Excellent
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... The PS3 can use any USB (or bluetooth) Keyboard and Mouse that a PC can... they aren't less functional or harder to use. They are identical. With them, you have no need to use a controller at all. It becomes a matter of preference, much in the same way as some PC players use controllers. You'll have no direct ventrillo access (which is Not required to play XIV), but the PS3 has a browser that can get to any website a PC can to look up information or..."community build."

And the people looking to play on the PS3 aren't (in the majority of cases) without PCs. They simply don't have PCs capable of running the game.

I don't hate you, as your title suggests. You just have no idea what you're talking about.

Edited, Jun 30th 2010 11:15pm by ascorbic
#6runway, Posted: Jun 30 2010 at 9:16 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Can you at least wipe the jiz of your chin before making a post like this.
#7 Jun 30 2010 at 9:17 PM Rating: Excellent
I played FFXI on the PS2 for years, and it worked just fine. I played with a gamepad and a full-size keyboard plugged into my USB port. I could sit on the couch with my laptop on the table in front of me, and with my ps2 keyboard on my lap. It was a great combination, made the game extremely playable. I loved not having to click away from the game just to use the Internet.

I have a gaming rig now for FFXIV, but I do intend to buy that for the ps3 as well.
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#8 Jun 30 2010 at 9:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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And for the record countless people played FFXI on PS2, XBox and PS3 for years and participated in every event FFXIV had to offer with no problems.
#9 Jun 30 2010 at 9:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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tilday wrote:
I am just trying to inform people of the bad idea it is to play an mmo on a system built around the single player.


Built around single player??? Have you even seen a console in the last few years? Rarely does a PS3/360 game launch anymore without a multiplayer component. I was just reading an industry analyst that postulated the current decline in software sales is mostly a reaction to the fact that people are using the multiplayer component of new titles instead of moving on to new games.
#10 Jun 30 2010 at 9:21 PM Rating: Good
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ascorbic wrote:
... The PS3 can use any USB (or bluetooth) Keyboard and Mouse that a PC can... they aren't less functional or harder to use. They are identical. With them, you have no need to use a controller at all. It becomes a matter of preference, much in the same way as some PC players use controllers. You'll have no direct ventrillo access (which is Not required to play XIV), but the PS3 has a browser that can get to any website a PC can to look up information or..."community build."

And the people looking to play on the PS3 aren't (in the majority of cases) without PCs. They simply don't have PCs capable of running the game.

I don't hate you, as your title suggests. You just have no idea what you're talking about.

Edited, Jun 30th 2010 11:15pm by ascorbic


I never did understand the thought process that takes "I'm stating something I believe to be correct" (don't we all?) to "If you disagree, you hate me, and that (somehow?) makes my point even more valid." Kinda an extension of the "If I call you crazy and you deny it, it just proves that you are."

State your opinion; people will always disagree with it. The fact that someone disagrees neither means that they dislike you as a person nor that your opinion is more valid.

I mean, the OP had some good points, but they got lost in a sea of fanboyishness and mistruths.
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#11tilday, Posted: Jun 30 2010 at 9:22 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I admit you are right about the keyboard and mouse part I was thinking back to the ps2 and had forgotten the added functionality of the ps3. However again pointing back to my ffxi days people who play this game on a console are going to use a controller 95% of the time, and that is a major disability. And unless they have totally revamped their internet system since I last tried it I wouldn't touch the ps3 internet browser with a 30 foot pole. Let alone it does not have many functions that are nessisary. I am not saying there is anything inherently wrong with playing on a console but it is like purposefully drinking a bottle of vodka and trying to drive to your friends house. Sure you might get there but it won't be pretty and you might leave a few dead bodies in your wake.
#12 Jun 30 2010 at 9:31 PM Rating: Good
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The ps2 actually functioned perfectly, it just didn't look as nice as the pc or xbox 360 versions. Controllers work very well for ffxi and ffxiv.

The only thing console players will miss out on will be voice chat and 3rd party programs. Neither is absolutely needed and lack of voice chat could be considered a blessing. (I just logged off COD MW2 on xbox live)

Edited, Jun 30th 2010 11:32pm by HooraySoysauce
#13 Jun 30 2010 at 10:04 PM Rating: Good
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ascorbic wrote:
tilday wrote:
I am just trying to inform people of the bad idea it is to play an mmo on a system built around the single player.


Built around single player??? Have you even seen a console in the last few years? Rarely does a PS3/360 game launch anymore without a multiplayer component. I was just reading an industry analyst that postulated the current decline in software sales is mostly a reaction to the fact that people are using the multiplayer component of new titles instead of moving on to new games.


I missed this post initially. Yeah, it's pretty hard for me to find a game that I like that doesn't emphasize multiplayer anymore.
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#14 Jul 01 2010 at 2:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Didn't it take years for FFXI to allow you to use the rest of your computer without a third party program?

Edited, Jul 1st 2010 5:13am by Redyoshi
#15 Jul 01 2010 at 3:11 AM Rating: Good
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wow... i played ff11 on ps2, pc and 360 and my best experience with ff11 was when i played on ps2.
idk why people swear that mmo's on consoles are full of fail when 9 times out of 10 have never even bothered to try it.
it was just ackward playing ff11 with keyboard and mouse.. the mouse pointer goes off screen and the camera goes crazy! hitting tab to target a specific npc in a crowd was a hassle too.
The only benefit from playing on pc was that i could watch simpsons while leveling a dd on youtube at the same time. macros were easy to use too with a controller, what hit r2 and cycle threw em real fast?

fact is i knew more ps2 and 360 users than pc users and i play for 5 years.
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#16 Jul 01 2010 at 3:57 AM Rating: Good
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Personally I think it's great that the game is coming to a console as well as PC. One of the things I always enjoyed about FFXI was the fact that you were playing with PC, PS2 And Xbox players on one server. Was nice for people just to put fanboyism aside and just play a game together without sounding like too much of a hippy lol

As far as FFXIV goes I hope the same applies although I wish Microsoft would budge a bit and let the game come to the 360 as well. I'm not sure whether I'll be playing this game on PC or console yet but I wouldn't rule out getting a PS3 to play this.

At the end of the day your not been forced to play this game on a console :)

Edited, Jul 1st 2010 5:59am by Valeforus
#17 Jul 01 2010 at 11:22 AM Rating: Excellent
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I have a PC that can play it, I'll be playing it at release, and I still would vastly prefer to play it on a console.

Your opinion stinks.
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#18 Jul 01 2010 at 11:24 AM Rating: Excellent
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I have a PC that can play it, I'll be playing it at release, and I still would vastly prefer to play it on a console.

Your opinion stinks.


Exactly how I feel. I will be playing at release on PC, but as soon as PS3 version is released I'm jumping over to it.
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#19 Jul 01 2010 at 12:22 PM Rating: Excellent
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However other genres such as the RTS and MMO's just do not belong on a console, the limitations are just mountainous. I cannot even fathom why a person would even want to do this.

Let's take this point by point by someone who not only played FFXI on PS2, but has also played many other MMOs (including WoW) with a controller, and was successful at endgame and competitive in PvP...

Quote:
Communication is a keystone of the mmo game and without a keyboard at the ready you have such a disconnect. Not to mention you do not have access to the rest of the internet, (yes I suppose you could have a laptop next to you but that is quite a pain). Programs like ventrilo and many other community building tools are not at your disposal. Sure you can buy a special keyboard and mouse but they are not as functional or as easy to use plus you are still using a controller and that means you cannot play and type at the same time.

I agree; communication is important, but not everyone wants to use VoIP, even at endgame. I am not alone in being one of the players who may not use VoIP and still keep up with endgame raids, camping, fights, whatever. As for using a controller, I've always tried to use a controller for MMOs whether it supported one or not, and I've never had trouble with any build of any class I have played. You said players who use controllers can't type and play at the same time, but neither can keyboard/mouse players if you want to get technical. Most MMOs require you to have either the chat window active (hit enter, type) or actively controlling the character/activating powers. I have yet to see an MMO where you could be typing in chat and still have it recognize hitting keys for movement/powers. Now, if you're talking about typing with one hand while moving with a mouse, players who use controllers can do that too. How functional or easy that may be is really up to the player's preferences.

Quote:
Also you are limited by the power of the hardware, you will never be able to make your game look better and don't even try argue about computers costing more, you can easily build a computer for 600 dollars or less that will blow away any current game out there. A ps3 with attachments can run 400 dollars or more and you haven't even taken into account the hd tv you need as well.

I played FFXI on both PC and PS2, and graphics were the only difference I could see as far as this point goes. The PS2 version even did some little things better despite my PC overpowering it in every way. Thinking about playing this on a PS3, I don't have to factor in the cost of a HDTV/montior because I already have one; a good PC for this, I don't. So the only reason I am choosing the PC version over the PS3 initially, is because I want to play at the earliest release date.

And lastly...
Quote:
One poster mentioned that tons of people played the game and had no problems using the console. Sure that may be true up to a certain level, if you are a casual player then sure I guess you could get by. But if you are trying to tell me that a console player could react and communicate and play to the level of a computer player at the high end competitive level of play then I am sorry you are just wrong. If you stick to the keyboard and mouse yes then it is possible but if you use a controller then I am sorry but you are only handicapping yourself.

You really don't know what you're talking about. I say that statement that way because you did not say that you would be handicapped, you said that anyone who tried to use a controller would ...but apparently I am wrong since I used a controller and could not possibly "react and communicate and play to the level of a computer player at the high end competitive level of play". Really? So when I was recruited to one of the top HNMLSs on my server just based on how I played the game, I couldn't compete with the PC users at endgame just because I played on PS2? I guess I'll have to give up all of those claims I had, or let someone else tank or dps or heal...This is my favorite thing to say to people like you:

Just because you don't like it or can't see how it might be possible, doesn't mean that there aren't others who do like it, and not only know how it's possible, but are successful and competitive.

If you don't like playing an MMO on a console or with a controller, fine, but don't toss around outdated opinions based on biased knowledge which interfere with how others might like to play the game when that option doesn't affect how you play the game.

Edited, Jul 1st 2010 1:25pm by WooShoo
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#20 Jul 01 2010 at 12:57 PM Rating: Good
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played FF XIon PC and 360

the 360 version had voice chat that was simply excellent, beats text chat by a country mile. SC coordination was a breeze, not to mention hands free - but that's another story, right?

there is Vent, but you can't really say it's easier to use then the 360 voice chat

there is nothing sub-par about a USB keyboard with console - i unplugged my keyboard from my PC and used it

anyway, your just going to get a bunch of people who prefer consoles to post here. most will be citing reasons why they prefer consoles, and others will respond a bit less constructively.

you are, however, entitled to both your opinion and the right to post it.

#21 Jul 01 2010 at 1:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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tilday wrote:
If you stick to the keyboard and mouse yes then it is possible but if you use a controller then I am sorry but you are only handicapping yourself.
I played on PC and used a controller a majority of the time. There was nothing in FFXI that ever required that fraction of a second difference you get between a "skilled" keyboard player and a "skilled" controller player outside of using 3rd party tools. In a FPS game, yeah a keyboard/mouse player is going to have a bit of an advantage over someone who plays with a controller, but in an MMO, I really don't see it. Now if FFXIV was going to be mostly a PvP oriented game, then I might agree with the "handicapping" argument, but it's not. It's cooperative not competitive. Only thing competitive in FFXI after Ballista died off was claiming, and PS2's were actually known to be better at claiming than PC's unless of course you are using an illegal hack on a PC.

As for voice chat over PC, well I can use Skype or Ventrilo over my smartphone. Otherwise you can use an old beater laptop, netbook, whatever, simply for voice chat alongside you while your playing on the console.

Edited, Jul 1st 2010 2:16pm by Harri
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#22 Jul 01 2010 at 1:35 PM Rating: Good
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I wanted to play FFXIV on my ps3 because my computer cannot run it hehe, I'm geting a new computer on september 20th and all i know is that im geting a 3gb ram and intel dual core 2Ghz, I dont understand video cards or graphic cards xD,
But i i can't run it oh well i'll just wait for the ps3 release, I have patience,
#23 Jul 01 2010 at 2:07 PM Rating: Good
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After playing FFXI for years, I can pretty definitively say that I had no way of telling who was on PC/PS2/360 unless they didn't have a keyboard or they specifically mentioned it. I didn't see any downside. Actually, a lot of people insist that PS2 users had an advantage in terms of response times in HNM settings; that PS2 users could claim faster than non-botting PC players, because the model showed up on PS2 half a second earlier.

I've never played on PS2 so I don't know if that's just a pile of rubbish, and I know the menu claims faster than a macro, but just throwing that out there.
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#24 Jul 01 2010 at 2:54 PM Rating: Decent
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After playing FFXI for years, I can pretty definitively say that I had no way of telling who was on PC/PS2/360 unless they didn't have a keyboard or they specifically mentioned it. I didn't see any downside. Actually, a lot of people insist that PS2 users had an advantage in terms of response times in HNM settings; that PS2 users could claim faster than non-botting PC players, because the model showed up on PS2 half a second earlier.

I've never played on PS2 so I don't know if that's just a pile of rubbish, and I know the menu claims faster than a macro, but just throwing that out there.


I used a ps2 for most of my ffxi time and only once did I see a mob pop claimed and that was at KA camp. I always felt like I had a shot at KB, Fafnir, Ulli (when he was a pita to get) etc.

#25 Jul 01 2010 at 3:20 PM Rating: Decent
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I too played FFXI on the ps2/ps3 and xbox 360 and it was extremely comfortable. You simply plug any usb keyboard in and a controller feels much better than a mouse in my opinion. I tried to play ffxi on PC at my buddy's house and I can't simply see how people could play on PC for long periods of time. I think its just a matter of preference, but believe MMOs on consoles (mainly ffxi) is 10 times better than you are giving it credit. The only downside is not having the ability to use addons but I would much rather play without them anyway. I'm also not much of a fan of vent but if I wanted too I could simply put the laptop on the bed right beside me. Besides console gaming being more comfortable the ability to play on my 50 inch HD tv is a major plus. I can't see how people can play on such small computer screens. It all goes back to being a preference though, some people like what they like. That being said, to say this about console MMOS simply make me think that you never even played a MMO on the console.

Quote:
I used a ps2 for most of my ffxi time and only once did I see a mob pop claimed and that was at KA camp. I always felt like I had a shot at KB, Fafnir, Ulli (when he was a pita to get) etc.


Claiming in FFXI was definitely an advantage to playstation users from my experience. I was one of the best claimers in my linkshell that had probably 10+ ridills even though it only had about 30 people max in the linkshell. I have claimed countless HNMs over the time and I think that most of the credit goes to human skill and reaction time but I think a slight advantage probably played a part as well. I was easily out-claiming people that everybody on the server knew used bots. I usually got tons of /tells claiming that I was a botter and what not even though I never even played FFXI on the PC. I know most of that was just people being sore losers and I didn't care cause everyone knew I only played on console (linkshell members / friends).

I remember one time specifically I claimed 4 fafnirs in a row on ps3 and this 1 guy /telled me and he stated that he was sick of my botting and called a GM. He said that I shouldn't be surprised if I get banned rather shortly, which of course never happened because I wasn't botting (I never played on PC, I was just good at claiming).



Edited, Jul 1st 2010 5:23pm by HocusP
#26 Jul 01 2010 at 4:51 PM Rating: Default
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Heh thanks for reminding me I had totally forgotten about addons. An mmo like wow would not even be possible on the console, I guess that makes ffxiv special because they have simplified it so they are not needed. Oh well to each their own but you really miss out on so many little things if you choose console. Keep up the down ranking it makes me giggle inside.
#27 Jul 01 2010 at 5:35 PM Rating: Decent
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tilday wrote:
Heh thanks for reminding me I had totally forgotten about addons. An mmo like wow would not even be possible on the console, I guess that makes ffxiv special because they have simplified it so they are not needed. Oh well to each their own but you really miss out on so many little things if you choose console. Keep up the down ranking it makes me giggle inside.
You got a point there. With certain add-ons, WoW basically plays the game for you on PC.
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#28 Jul 01 2010 at 7:11 PM Rating: Decent
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I play everything on PC because I want my TV for watching shows while I'm playing. Also better graphics/frame rate, PS3 is what... 3 years old now?

Both are just fine, but those who can afford upgrading their PC will play games on PC over consol.
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#29 Jul 01 2010 at 7:36 PM Rating: Excellent
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Such general statements. Such a downer for those playing on non-PC platforms. If you see no reasons to play on a PS3, then don't.

I really don't see much credible evidence to support your arguments.

I have partied with a **** good tank that used a PS2 with comtroller only. I have played with a **** good WHM that never made a macro.It's all about play style and what's comfortable.

A;so remember that most ppl may not have cash for a new PC or for upgrades. My gf will be playing on my PC and since we have an HDTV and PS3 already, that's what I'll be playing on. I'm saving cash for a new PC, but it's gonna cost me about 6k for the total set up. When i get it then I'll play on PS3.

It's funny that according to you, I just shouldn't bother enjoying the game at all. Kudos to you for raising ppl's ire even before the game comes out.
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#30 Jul 01 2010 at 8:50 PM Rating: Decent
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tilday wrote:
Heh thanks for reminding me I had totally forgotten about addons. An mmo like wow would not even be possible on the console, I guess that makes ffxiv special because they have simplified it so they are not needed. Oh well to each their own but you really miss out on so many little things if you choose console. Keep up the down ranking it makes me giggle inside.

So you, with admittedly no console experience in any of the games that support it (FFXI, EQ, etc), have the capacity to pass judgment on everyone who prefers some comfort while they play? You didn't even know that the PS2, PS3 and Xbox 360 supported standard USB keyboards. Just admit that you're trolling and get out of here.
#31 Jul 01 2010 at 9:00 PM Rating: Decent
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wut?

The lack of ability for people to talk was one of the greatest parts of ffxi. Chat and voice chat are only great if you WANT to talk to the person.

:D
#32 Jul 01 2010 at 9:53 PM Rating: Decent
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Im gonna be playing on ps3 with keyboard and control pad, it doesnt bother me tbh. no vent might suck, but for small groups vent was horrible anyway. I always used skype when I was playing with 2 or 3 friends so hopefully for small groups there will be options for ingame voice chat.
Im not really hung up on the graphics either. I mean the pc will have far superior graphics but the ps3 produces nice environments.

Id rather play on pc but my pc is busted and I cant afford a new one and I already have a ps3 ,easy choice.
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