Forum Settings
       
This Forum is Read Only

For sanity sakes I sure hope you don't have to .......Follow

#1 Jul 01 2010 at 11:07 PM Rating: Default
*
209 posts
For sanity sakes I sure hope you do NOT have to rely on people in FFXIV to get stuff done!!!!!!!!! I cant even count how may times I have been screwed over in FFXI because some one said they would help with something and never showed!!! I realize that sometimes **** happens and you cant be there for one reason or another. But when the same people ***** you over time and time again it gets really old fast!!! They are quick to ask for your help but when you need help they have every excuse under the sun. Perfect example today my friend needed a pair of level 38 legs made which would have taken all of 5 minutes to make. But this person we have been helping for the last week said he was going to check on a NM and was going to log after and not help my friend. So we spent the next 3hrs trying to farm up the legs, I dont know if he got his legs or not because I had to go pick my wife up from work. So in the end the guy we have been helping for a week couldnt take 5 minutes to make the legs, which left us stuck farming for hrs.

I am totaly sick of people like that I sure hope you can get stuff done in ffxiv in small groups or solo. And as far as crafting goes I will have one of every crafter if possable. The less I have to rely on people the better!
#2 Jul 01 2010 at 11:11 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
35 posts
Well they did announce solo possibility would be more capable, but some things will need groups. Also because there is group vs group mobs too.. I guess it varies but I understand solo'ing quite a bit. I typically just do things with a friend.
#3 Jul 01 2010 at 11:14 PM Rating: Good
While none of us can say for sure what will happen in the game...


We do know that soloing is going to be more viable in XIV than XI. Buuuut.... we also know Square's tendency to rely on camaraderie and teamwork to achieve the big things. Don't expect to get things like Zilart's XIV equivalent done solo.
#4 Jul 01 2010 at 11:34 PM Rating: Default
***
1,457 posts
Lol I totally agree bro. I already pre-ordered my collector's edition because the game looks awesome. However, as much as I loved FFXI, if FFXIV requires groups for anything worth a sh*t and drags on the way FFXI did, I'll play for about a week. Then it's back to waiting around for the next new good one.
____________________________
Hunter Avril
Rogue Ultra
Paladin Awhellnah
Mage Shantotto
Shaman Lakshmi
Faith (Valefor)

#5 Jul 01 2010 at 11:37 PM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
I think that it should have a good amount of soloable content, and they did say that it would. But I don't want to play a massively singleplayer online role-playing game.

I wouldn't want a game where NOTHING requires a group.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#6 Jul 01 2010 at 11:40 PM Rating: Default
**
353 posts
If you watch movies, a lot involve team work or partners to accomplish their goals. IE, lord of the rings, hercules, xena, harry potter. I can go on and on. What I am saying is, lets be realistic here, you alone cannot take over the evil on the planet. Expect group play to accomplish big things.

Edited, Jul 2nd 2010 1:41am by Imaboomer
#7 Jul 01 2010 at 11:41 PM Rating: Good
GuardianFaith wrote:
Lol I totally agree bro. I already pre-ordered my collector's edition because the game looks awesome. However, as much as I loved FFXI, if FFXIV requires groups for anything worth a sh*t and drags on the way FFXI did, I'll play for about a week. Then it's back to waiting around for the next new good one.



Quote:
L'enfer, c'est les autres



Can't say I'm surprised at this post here, with that sig quote, lol. Si vouz croyez que l'enfer est les autres, vouz n'avez aucune de rasion de jouer à XIV.

Edited, Jul 1st 2010 10:43pm by Osarion
#8 Jul 01 2010 at 11:55 PM Rating: Decent
*****
11,539 posts
Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
GuardianFaith wrote:
Lol I totally agree bro. I already pre-ordered my collector's edition because the game looks awesome. However, as much as I loved FFXI, if FFXIV requires groups for anything worth a sh*t and drags on the way FFXI did, I'll play for about a week. Then it's back to waiting around for the next new good one.



Quote:
L'enfer, c'est les autres



Can't say I'm surprised at this post here, with that sig quote, lol. Si vouz croyez que l'enfer est les autres, vouz n'avez aucune de rasion de jouer à XIV.

Edited, Jul 1st 2010 10:43pm by Osarion


....en ingles, por favor?
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#9 Jul 02 2010 at 12:00 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
549 posts
Quote:
I dont know if he got his legs or not because I had to go pick my wife up from work.


Excuses excuses. tsk tsk tsk

I know exactly what you mean. I usually had little difficulty with getting one person to help me, but needing more than that can be a real pain in the ***.
____________________________
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
#10 Jul 02 2010 at 12:04 AM Rating: Decent
**
335 posts
Quote:
Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
GuardianFaith wrote:
Lol I totally agree bro. I already pre-ordered my collector's edition because the game looks awesome. However, as much as I loved FFXI, if FFXIV requires groups for anything worth a sh*t and drags on the way FFXI did, I'll play for about a week. Then it's back to waiting around for the next new good one.



Quote:
L'enfer, c'est les autres



Can't say I'm surprised at this post here, with that sig quote, lol. Si vouz croyez que l'enfer est les autres, vouz n'avez aucune de rasion de jouer à XIV.

Edited, Jul 1st 2010 10:43pm by Osarion


....en ingles, por favor?


It would be in french so En anglais, s'il vous plait would be a bit better. But Osarion said if you believe that **** is others, you do not have any reason to play XIV.
____________________________


#11 Jul 02 2010 at 12:04 AM Rating: Good
Mikhalia wrote:
Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
GuardianFaith wrote:
Lol I totally agree bro. I already pre-ordered my collector's edition because the game looks awesome. However, as much as I loved FFXI, if FFXIV requires groups for anything worth a sh*t and drags on the way FFXI did, I'll play for about a week. Then it's back to waiting around for the next new good one.



Quote:
L'enfer, c'est les autres



Can't say I'm surprised at this post here, with that sig quote, lol. Si vouz croyez que l'enfer est les autres, vouz n'avez aucune de rasion de jouer à XIV.

Edited, Jul 1st 2010 10:43pm by Osarion


....en ingles, por favor?


I was just saying that you can't expect that major things in XIV won't play out the same as they did in XI. SE is still a Japanese based gaming company, with Japanese values. These values include teamwork and group play. We may be able to level much more easily solo, even do missions and quests solo. But don't think for a second that the major events in the game won't require at least some sort of groupage.

btw what I said was: If you believe that **** is other people, you have no reason to play XIV. Smiley: cool
#12 Jul 02 2010 at 12:07 AM Rating: Decent
Scholar
***
1,523 posts
TheBSTGuy wrote:
For sanity sakes I sure hope you do NOT have to rely on people in FFXIV to get stuff done!!!!!!!!! I cant even count how may times I have been screwed over in FFXI because some one said they would help with something and never showed!!! I realize that sometimes sh*t happens and you cant be there for one reason or another. But when the same people ***** you over time and time again it gets really old fast!!! They are quick to ask for your help but when you need help they have every excuse under the sun. Perfect example today my friend needed a pair of level 38 legs made which would have taken all of 5 minutes to make. But this person we have been helping for the last week said he was going to check on a NM and was going to log after and not help my friend. So we spent the next 3hrs trying to farm up the legs, I dont know if he got his legs or not because I had to go pick my wife up from work. So in the end the guy we have been helping for a week couldnt take 5 minutes to make the legs, which left us stuck farming for hrs.

I am totaly sick of people like that I sure hope you can get stuff done in ffxiv in small groups or solo. And as far as crafting goes I will have one of every crafter if possable. The less I have to rely on people the better!


So you don't want to rely on other people to get your stuff crafted? So you want to craft your own stuff? And this is not possible in FFXI?

Or you just don't want to play with people? And you're in a MMORPG? Atleast go to WoW?
____________________________
____(>°°)D_->__(O°°)>-_<(;,,;)>_C-(°°Q)__O~~_t(°°<)_(;o0)___<(;,,;)>_<(;,,;)>_<(;,,;)>_<(;,,;)>_<(;,,;)>_____

#13 Jul 02 2010 at 12:12 AM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
Mikhalia wrote:
Osarion, Goblin in Disguise wrote:
GuardianFaith wrote:
Lol I totally agree bro. I already pre-ordered my collector's edition because the game looks awesome. However, as much as I loved FFXI, if FFXIV requires groups for anything worth a sh*t and drags on the way FFXI did, I'll play for about a week. Then it's back to waiting around for the next new good one.



Quote:
L'enfer, c'est les autres



Can't say I'm surprised at this post here, with that sig quote, lol. Si vouz croyez que l'enfer est les autres, vouz n'avez aucune de rasion de jouer à XIV.

Edited, Jul 1st 2010 10:43pm by Osarion


....en ingles, por favor?


I was just saying that you can't expect that major things in XIV won't play out the same as they did in XI. SE is still a Japanese based gaming company, with Japanese values. These values include teamwork and group play. We may be able to level much more easily solo, even do missions and quests solo. But don't think for a second that the major events in the game won't require at least some sort of groupage.

btw what I said was: If you believe that **** is other people, you have no reason to play XIV. Smiley: cool


I knew it was French; I just had no idea how to say that in French, so I said it in Spanish :)

But seriously; I don't play an MMOG to play it by myself, I play it because I want to play with other people. The main reason I kept playing FFXI as long as I did was because of the people I played with. I liked the game, but I liked the "world" just as much. If the game can be soloed, there's little incentive to party. And if there's little incentive for me to play with anyone (or anyone to play with me) then it might as well just be a single player game.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#14 Jul 02 2010 at 1:01 AM Rating: Good
Sage
****
6,470 posts
Mikhalia wrote:
I knew it was French; I just had no idea how to say that in French, so I said it in Spanish :)

But seriously; I don't play an MMOG to play it by myself, I play it because I want to play with other people. The main reason I kept playing FFXI as long as I did was because of the people I played with. I liked the game, but I liked the "world" just as much. If the game can be soloed, there's little incentive to party. And if there's little incentive for me to play with anyone (or anyone to play with me) then it might as well just be a single player game.


To play l'avocat du diable for a second:

I believe that it's perfectly reasonable to want to play an MMORPG solo. There a few possible reasons to pick an MMORPG even if you'd like to quest by yourself...perhaps you like to communicate with friends/LSmates while you play, or perhaps you just enjoy the feeling of being part of a living, breathing world, even if you don't partake in it to its fullest. In FFXI, I met people of all types. Some were gregarious, some didn't like getting too involved with other players. But the latter weren't always grumpy, nasty folk. On the contrary, I found they were often quite willing to lend a hand in a pinch, but they kept themselves fairly guarded as they did.

Now, that's not my cup of tea, but I think it's reasonable enough.
____________________________
Latest Articles:
Monaco: What's Yours is Mine Review

Follow me on Twitter!
#15 Jul 02 2010 at 1:24 AM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
Eske wrote:
Mikhalia wrote:
I knew it was French; I just had no idea how to say that in French, so I said it in Spanish :)

But seriously; I don't play an MMOG to play it by myself, I play it because I want to play with other people. The main reason I kept playing FFXI as long as I did was because of the people I played with. I liked the game, but I liked the "world" just as much. If the game can be soloed, there's little incentive to party. And if there's little incentive for me to play with anyone (or anyone to play with me) then it might as well just be a single player game.


To play l'avocat du diable for a second:

I believe that it's perfectly reasonable to want to play an MMORPG solo. There a few possible reasons to pick an MMORPG even if you'd like to quest by yourself...perhaps you like to communicate with friends/LSmates while you play, or perhaps you just enjoy the feeling of being part of a living, breathing world, even if you don't partake in it to its fullest. In FFXI, I met people of all types. Some were gregarious, some didn't like getting too involved with other players. But the latter weren't always grumpy, nasty folk. On the contrary, I found they were often quite willing to lend a hand in a pinch, but they kept themselves fairly guarded as they did.

Now, that's not my cup of tea, but I think it's reasonable enough.


I do see your point, and as I said, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a certain amount of content to be soloable... but to me, "I want to play an MMORPG and -never- need to group for -anything-" makes about as much sense as "I want to go to a club/concert, but I don't want to hear loud music." in that you're trying to avoid the main purpose of the thing you're doing.

I do see your point, and I don't think that just because someone prefers to play solo it makes them grumpy and nasty or anything; even I would prefer to just go off by myself and not be bothered every once in a while (although to be fair, I'm usually in a grumpy mood at those times :P) but despite the fact that you have a valid point, I still "don't get it". It's not that I don't understand the logic behind it, I just "don't get it" and probably never will.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#16 Jul 02 2010 at 1:40 AM Rating: Decent
It's funny, because a year ago talking about solo play as anything more than that barely tolerable thing you do when you can't get a party spawned multi-page flame threads where the majority of posts involved "if you want to play solo you don't belong in an MMO."

My, how things change.

Yes, you'll need other players to get things done. Not all things, and most certainly not to the extent of XI, but you're still not going to be cruising though the game solo and expecting the best rewards. SE mentioned some time ago that the crafting professions would likely be on a teeter-totter system similar to how they were in XI, so you're not likely to be maxing all crafts on one character. Levequests are already showing that the more people you get involved, the better the rewards will be. Missions and other significant game aspects are also likely to require groups.

I've always been a proponent of viable solo play ever since I left XI, but there has to be a balance. Solo play isn't meant to exclude party play. It's an asset to MMOs in that you can still log in and play and enjoy yourself whether you can find a party or not, but to get anywhere near the most out of the game, you're still going to need the cooperation of other players.
#17 Jul 02 2010 at 1:47 AM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:
I've always been a proponent of viable solo play ever since I left XI, but there has to be a balance. Solo play isn't meant to exclude party play. It's an asset to MMOs in that you can still log in and play and enjoy yourself whether you can find a party or not, but to get anywhere near the most out of the game, you're still going to need the cooperation of other players.


I feel much the same way; I think that if a game is -too- soloable (if there's no balance), it's a bad thing.

e.g. WoW: I had a character that I leveled with and only with my fiancee's (then girlfriend's) character. She and I only quested with each other, sometimes together in a group with three more but never solo. The result was that we would complete every quest an area would have to offer us and end up a level or two behind the recommended spot to go on. The way WoW was designed, grouping up on anything but (Group)/(Dungeon)/(Raid) quests will end up hurting you in the end.

So long as the game balances solo and party play, it should be fine. But too much emphasis on solo eventually means that partying slows you down and becomes unpreferable (is that a word?) to the point that it becomes impossible to get a party in an otherwise crowded game world.

____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#18 Jul 02 2010 at 1:52 AM Rating: Good
*
78 posts
Mikhalia wrote:
The One and Only Aurelius wrote:

I've always been a proponent of viable solo play ever since I left XI, but there has to be a balance. Solo play isn't meant to exclude party play. It's an asset to MMOs in that you can still log in and play and enjoy yourself whether you can find a party or not, but to get anywhere near the most out of the game, you're still going to need the cooperation of other players.



I feel much the same way; I think that if a game is -too- soloable (if there's no balance), it's a bad thing.


Yep, I agree as well. There were many things about FFXIV that could have been made more solo-friendly, but there were also some great challenges that just wouldn't have been the same without a horde of players working together, dying a lot, and making fun of each other for it along the way. Without those times there's just not the same kind of memories and experiences from the game, at least in my experience.
____________________________
Aveline Blue | Miqo'te swordswoman of Ul'dah, leader of TALE. Proud member of the Immortal Flames!
The Adventure League of Eorzea: A FFXIV roleplaying linkshell.
FFXIV Character Name Generator
#19 Jul 02 2010 at 2:09 AM Rating: Good
***
2,535 posts
Mikhalia wrote:
e.g. WoW: I had a character that I leveled with and only with my fiancee's (then girlfriend's) character. She and I only quested with each other, sometimes together in a group with three more but never solo. The result was that we would complete every quest an area would have to offer us and end up a level or two behind the recommended spot to go on. The way WoW was designed, grouping up on anything but (Group)/(Dungeon)/(Raid) quests will end up hurting you in the end.


Actually, that happens in midgame WoW (from, say, the 20's to the 50's) even in solo play. There's is a bit of a quest shortage in those levels, which is part of the reason why they're redesigning the entire old-world questing experience in Cata.

Let me tell you, at those levels, my solo characters have had to clear two or three level-appropriate zones worth of quests before being able to move on the next higher range...



Though it's worth noting that with heavy use of the dungeon finder they recently added, it's almost trivial to go through a single zone's whole level range and not do all the quests in that zone - meaning that, even in a solo-friendly game like WoW, it is now easier to level via grouping. As an example, my paladin had to do Hinterlands, Tanaris, Searing Gorge, Swamp of Sorrows, and a bit of Un'Goro Crater to get from 40 to 50. My mage, who I leveled after the dungeon finder came out, did 40-50 just in Feralas, and didn't even do every quest there (and didn't even benefit from Dungeon quests which he never went to the right zones to pick up).
#20 Jul 02 2010 at 2:21 AM Rating: Decent
*
209 posts
I think you guys are missing the point here. I know that major tasks will be group content. I am talking about simple tasks such as trying to get behind the gate in Gargayl Citidal. All those years of trying to get behing the gate sucked. You had to hope there was a party there and when the FFXI player base started to thin out before they put the past in. It really sucked ***!

You guys can take this to the bank, if FFXIV requires too much grouping the game will fail. Everyone is brain washed by WOW and thinks solo is the way to go. Heck there are a ton of people soloing in FFXI now as well. If there is too much grouping only the hard core will want to play this game. And its the casual players that make up the masses. I want to see FFXIV knock WOW off the throne, who knows it just might happen!
#21 Jul 02 2010 at 2:32 AM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
TheBSTGuy wrote:
I think you guys are missing the point here. I know that major tasks will be group content. I am talking about simple tasks such as trying to get behind the gate in Gargayl Citidal. All those years of trying to get behing the gate sucked. You had to hope there was a party there and when the FFXI player base started to thin out before they put the past in. It really sucked ***!

You guys can take this to the bank, if FFXIV requires too much grouping the game will fail. Everyone is brain washed by WOW and thinks solo is the way to go. Heck there are a ton of people soloing in FFXI now as well. If there is too much grouping only the hard core will want to play this game. And its the casual players that make up the masses. I want to see FFXIV knock WOW off the throne, who knows it just might happen!


Yeah, I have to admit that despite my disagreements with things you have said in the past that I can't dispute that the switches in Garlaige, while a great idea in concept, were a horridly abysmal idea in practice.

The upside was that at least with Sauromugue [S] (sp?) you could get behind gates 1 and 3 solo with a bit of sidetracking (still not 2 though) but speaking as someone who has obtained literally every single piece of AF available from a Garlaige coffer, I must say that I definitely did not care for having to put off getting my AF until I could find 3 other people to hoof it to gate 3 with me, pre WotG. And there's still the matter that only 3/7 coffers are behind gate 3, the other 4 are behind gate 2, so if the coffer wasn't up behind gate 3, and you had no one to go with you to the other side, you could be waiting anywhere from 5-10 minutes to (my personal record behind gate 3 without leaving) 10 hours. And despite spending a grand total of DAYS (across all jobs) in Garlaige camping coffers, I'm not even confident that there's no one here who has a worse horror story than mine.

So while I do certainly enjoy the group aspect of pressing buttons together, I could certainly make due without it.

EDIT: And let's not forget Eldieme coffers too. God ****, they were even worse, if that's even possible.

Coffer hunting was my favorite part of AF on every job I did it on, but I dreaded the Eldieme and Garlaige ones so bad, and except for the Zilart jobs, they ALL had AF in one or both IIRC.

Edited, Jul 2nd 2010 4:34am by Mikhalia
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#22 Jul 02 2010 at 5:49 AM Rating: Good
**
362 posts
Wow, I read the OP and had to respond.

FFXI had the absolute best MMO community of which I have ever been a part. When I finally decided to try other MMOs (oh so long ago...), the one thing that I kept missing was that sense of community. Sure, nothing in an MMO is going to go your way or be easy every time you try, and people are like that as well, but when playing an MMO, I would much rather share almost every little experience with friends, link friends, or even random parties than solo my way through 95% of the game and only look up other people to go raid something.

I missed this community, and in about 3 months, I get to enjoy it again.
____________________________
"Unfortunately many game companies are learning that if they can just keep you busy, you might not realize how bored you are." - Kachi
"Pride in your character will amount to nothing more than the level of intimacy I have when I order a burger from McDonald's" - Warfox07
"I find comfort food always helps when I feel like killing myself." - Papashan (FFXIV)
#23 Jul 02 2010 at 2:13 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
180 posts
BastokFL wrote:


Actually, that happens in midgame WoW (from, say, the 20's to the 50's) even in solo play. There's is a bit of a quest shortage in those levels, which is part of the reason why they're redesigning the entire old-world questing experience in Cata.

Let me tell you, at those levels, my solo characters have had to clear two or three level-appropriate zones worth of quests before being able to move on the next higher range...



That's the problem I have with the quest based progression system. They make the quests worth far more exp than the monsters you kill to complete them, so if you have no quests left - leveling because even more of a grind than the traditional system. Not only that, but the system commonly funnels you through a linear pre-determined path of quests from beginning to end and you lose that feeling of freedom. Plus developers typically have trouble creating enough original content to fill that gap as it is. It's even less tolerable the second time through if you decide to play an alt. I've never made it completely through a second round in a game that uses this system. I always quit long before then.

I'm already imagining a scenario where I want to shoot my character in the face out of boredom from doing repetitive generic guildleves by myself over and over again, because its the only way to progress and nobody wants to party up unless it's required. I hope that's not going to be the case.
#24 Jul 02 2010 at 2:28 PM Rating: Decent
*****
11,539 posts
Calispel wrote:
BastokFL wrote:


Actually, that happens in midgame WoW (from, say, the 20's to the 50's) even in solo play. There's is a bit of a quest shortage in those levels, which is part of the reason why they're redesigning the entire old-world questing experience in Cata.

Let me tell you, at those levels, my solo characters have had to clear two or three level-appropriate zones worth of quests before being able to move on the next higher range...


That's the problem I have with the quest based progression system. They make the quests worth far more exp than the monsters you kill to complete them, so if you have no quests left - leveling because even more of a grind than the traditional system. Not only that, but the system commonly funnels you through a linear pre-determined path of quests from beginning to end and you lose that feeling of freedom. Plus developers typically have trouble creating enough original content to fill that gap as it is. It's even less tolerable the second time through if you decide to play an alt. I've never made it completely through a second round in a game that uses this system. I always quit long before then.

I'm already imagining a scenario where I want to shoot my character in the face out of boredom from doing repetitive generic guildleves by myself over and over again, because its the only way to progress and nobody wants to party up unless it's required. I hope that's not going to be the case.


Yeah, the plus side is that your second, third, fourth characters tend to level faster because you know everything you need to do and leveling becomes less like "part of the game" and more like "a boring, unneeded obstacle".

Think about if you had to do the 5 limit break quests for EVERY job you took to 75. Except worse.

After years of playing Horde, I even played two Alliance characters just because I wanted to experience new quests. Of course it got boring around 58 again when you realize that most of the Outland and Northrend quests are pretty similar regardless of faction. Leveling a Night Elf and a Draenei after years of Undead and Blood Elf and Troll was a nice change of pace.

Of course the argument could be made that "Camp here, kill mobs, repeat until party disbands" is equally boring. I didn't mind it so much but many people don't care for that method and would prefer the "Kill 10 rats and NPC gives you 10,000 bonus XP" method. To each their own, I suppose.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#25 Jul 02 2010 at 2:34 PM Rating: Default
**
602 posts
original Op dude its a MMO, if you want to rely on someone to help you play a game, play asingle player game. I jusy wonder how many times you said you would help and didn't? Oh ya sh*t happens

Edited, Jul 2nd 2010 4:35pm by Frebaut
____________________________
BANNED

#26 Jul 02 2010 at 3:02 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
*
180 posts
Mikhalia wrote:


Yeah, the plus side is that your second, third, fourth characters tend to level faster because you know everything you need to do and leveling becomes less like "part of the game" and more like "a boring, unneeded obstacle".

Think about if you had to do the 5 limit break quests for EVERY job you took to 75. Except worse.

After years of playing Horde, I even played two Alliance characters just because I wanted to experience new quests. Of course it got boring around 58 again when you realize that most of the Outland and Northrend quests are pretty similar regardless of faction. Leveling a Night Elf and a Draenei after years of Undead and Blood Elf and Troll was a nice change of pace.

Of course the argument could be made that "Camp here, kill mobs, repeat until party disbands" is equally boring. I didn't mind it so much but many people don't care for that method and would prefer the "Kill 10 rats and NPC gives you 10,000 bonus XP" method. To each their own, I suppose.


I like they way it was implemented most recently in FFXI. You have your generic kill 10 crabs for bonus XP quests to break up the monotony, but they are completely optional and don't have any impact on where you go to level up. You can still choose to go wherever you want, as long as that zone contains monsters of the appropriate level. Granted there are still the popular places in FFXI where you'll usually end up, but it's not like you are forced to fight in the dunes because the next set of quests tells you to go there.

I leveled several jobs to 75 and the path I took to the end was a little different for each one. If I had to repeat all those limit break quests for every job, yeah... I never would have made it. I know in games with quest based systems I end up skipping over text and lore the second time through because I've been there - done that - but the game is forcing me to do it exactly the same way again. It ends up feeling like even more of a grind to me at that point, and I find I'm no longer having any fun.

Party play mixes it up even more, because the makeup is often varied. I feel like it was that, and the lack of forced repetitive questing that kept me playing FFXI for 5+ years. As much as I like the idea of no longer having to wait hours for a party to do anything in FFXIV, I don't think a repetitive solo heavy game is going to do it for me either. I hope they've found a balance between the two.
#27 Jul 02 2010 at 3:10 PM Rating: Default
**
412 posts
As long as the reward for using teamwork is much better than solo play, everything will be good.
____________________________
They appeared from the sky, the one without a heart... "Omega"...And the one who followed it..."Shinryuu"...
Final Fantasy 5
#28 Jul 02 2010 at 3:10 PM Rating: Good
Scholar
**
787 posts
I for one am looking for a balance between grouping and soloing. I hope FFXIV doesn't become plagued with the use of addon which calculates your worth by gear alone. It's pretty disgusting seeing teams & raids turning people away because even if they're only 25-50 points shy of whatever the expected gear value was set.
#29 Jul 02 2010 at 3:17 PM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
rubina wrote:
I for one am looking for a balance between grouping and soloing. I hope FFXIV doesn't become plagued with the use of addon which calculates your worth by gear alone. It's pretty disgusting seeing teams & raids turning people away because even if they're only 25-50 points shy of whatever the expected gear value was set.


The plus side of the gearscore addon, and the initial intent behind it, was to tell at a cursory glance whether someone saying "I'll join your raid" should actually be joining it.

At the same time, you end up with players who take it WAY too seriously. I've outdamaged players of the same class with better gear than me. Sometimes significantly.

I liked what the addon could have done, but disliked what it turned into. Aside from my complaints about the endgame progression methods, the other reason I quit was the players who relied obsessively on the gear score system. I could definitely do without that.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#30 Jul 02 2010 at 3:22 PM Rating: Good
***
1,566 posts
All I can say about this is, I hope for more "everyone gets something" kind of events rather than "everyone works to get one person something."
Too many early events dropped too little for the amount of people it took to be successful. It seemed they caught on around ToAU when they implemented Einherjar with Ampoules of Ichor where every can be collectively working toward something that benefits them.
#31 Jul 02 2010 at 3:56 PM Rating: Decent
Scholar
**
787 posts
Quote:
The plus side of the gearscore addon, and the initial intent behind it, was to tell at a cursory glance whether someone saying "I'll join your raid" should actually be joining it.


It had great potential but I think it really ruined the game in many levels. I've seen tank at a certain 5k+ range routinely drop team as soon as they see the rest of the team was in the 4k range. I've also seen teams vote-kick players if they don't meet the snob's GS reqs.
#32 Jul 02 2010 at 4:35 PM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
rubina wrote:
Quote:
The plus side of the gearscore addon, and the initial intent behind it, was to tell at a cursory glance whether someone saying "I'll join your raid" should actually be joining it.


It had great potential but I think it really ruined the game in many levels. I've seen tank at a certain 5k+ range routinely drop team as soon as they see the rest of the team was in the 4k range. I've also seen teams vote-kick players if they don't meet the snob's GS reqs.


I've managed to get into raids where I wasn't exactly what one might call "geared", and still managed to do well. The thing with WoW (some classes more than others) is that gear only determines your maximum potential. It's up to the player to know the proper ability rotation/priority and to do it correctly. A good player who knows their class well can outperform players who are decked in purples and mashing buttons. I know a story of a guild who full cleared Ulduar 10 man in nothing higher than blue ilvl 200; no purples at all.

Like I said, the addon would be nice for a cursory glance (I wouldn't bring someone with a GS of 1800-2000 to IC25 obviously), but recount is a far more accurate gauge of overall performance than gear score. And even then, recount can be unhelpful because it discourages people to spec support builds. As an example, in a mage/destro heavy group, a demo lock would lose a little damage, but it would end up benefiting everyone else to the point that his dps loss is a much larger overall dps gain.

Of course your average mouth breather sees this as "That demo lock sucks because everyone else is outdamaging him".

I'm not going to say I'm against parsers, but it's annoying when people don't take the FULL picture into mind as far as what a player is contributing to the fight. A ret pally tossing a couple cures around might save a melee from death if the healers start going down, but it will hurt his own damage output slightly, although at the expense of keeping the overall damage up. 3500+4000 dps is better than 4500+0 dps.

Like I said, these addons were nice in theory, but they tend to make some people not consider the whole picture. It's all about working together as a group to overcome an obstacle, not a group of people each trying to outdo each other.

Edited, Jul 2nd 2010 6:36pm by Mikhalia
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#33 Jul 02 2010 at 4:55 PM Rating: Good
***
2,535 posts
Calispel wrote:
BastokFL wrote:


Actually, that happens in midgame WoW (from, say, the 20's to the 50's) even in solo play. There's is a bit of a quest shortage in those levels, which is part of the reason why they're redesigning the entire old-world questing experience in Cata.

Let me tell you, at those levels, my solo characters have had to clear two or three level-appropriate zones worth of quests before being able to move on the next higher range...



That's the problem I have with the quest based progression system. They make the quests worth far more exp than the monsters you kill to complete them, so if you have no quests left - leveling because even more of a grind than the traditional system. Not only that, but the system commonly funnels you through a linear pre-determined path of quests from beginning to end and you lose that feeling of freedom. Plus developers typically have trouble creating enough original content to fill that gap as it is. It's even less tolerable the second time through if you decide to play an alt. I've never made it completely through a second round in a game that uses this system. I always quit long before then.


Actually, pre-BC WoW was designed under the assumption that there would be lots of monster grinding rather than questing. Quests become relatively few in number after about level 25 or so, and the reward XP is not significantly better than mob XP.

It's not until BC that quest XP was significantly higher than mob XP and quests were available in sufficient quantity to be a major XP source, such that in both, there are more than enough quests in the new areas to level from old cap to new cap without ever need to kill something that's unrelated to a quest; though of course neither BC nor Wrath made any changes to questing in the old world.

This is why players under 58 can run out of quests before finishing off a level range in the first place - the original game by design did not have enough quest content. That this is still an issue even though XP requirements below level 60 have been reduced several times since BC went live should tell you just how much raw grinding would have been required to reach 60 in the pre-BC era... suffice it to say, in the old days, any class that could spec into being able to AoE grind XP mobs was highly advised to do so.
#34 Jul 02 2010 at 5:21 PM Rating: Good
***
2,535 posts
rubina wrote:
Quote:
The plus side of the gearscore addon, and the initial intent behind it, was to tell at a cursory glance whether someone saying "I'll join your raid" should actually be joining it.


It had great potential but I think it really ruined the game in many levels. I've seen tank at a certain 5k+ range routinely drop team as soon as they see the rest of the team was in the 4k range. I've also seen teams vote-kick players if they don't meet the snob's GS reqs.


On the other hand, those are precisely the kinds of players you probably wouldn't want to play with anyway.

People who obsess over gearscore like that are almost universally either undergeared players looking to be carried or terrible players who rely on gear to make up for their inability to play, and because gear can only make up for so much, further rely on the rest of the group's gear to make up for their own shortcomings.

Back before the gearscore add-on, people like that would have to manually inspect you and evalute your gear; the add-on has made it easier for these terribads to identify themselves to the rest of us, and so for that I say THANK YOU GEARSCORE :P

I frankly prefer the Elitist Group add-on, which provides some more useful metrics: what proportion of you gear, gems, and enchants are appropriate for your spec... not that I check it in random heroics anyway, since I'm well-geared enough that, as long as the tank and the healer have pulses, we'll clear the dungeon with ease.
#35 Jul 02 2010 at 5:41 PM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
In terms of personality, the "slightly undergeared to average, but still trying hard" players are usually the most fun to play with.

Next are the "Top gear, top skill, sense of humor"

Next are the "average gear, average skill"

Next are the "Top gear, top skill, srs biznes"

Next are the "slightly above average, but vehemently insistent that anyone with better gear than them has no life"

Next are the "Horrible gear, lack of skill, and God help you if you point out either"
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#36 Jul 02 2010 at 9:47 PM Rating: Decent
***
1,457 posts
Quote:

Quote:
L'enfer, c'est les autres



Can't say I'm surprised at this post here, with that sig quote, lol. Si vouz croyez que l'enfer est les autres, vouz n'avez aucune de rasion de jouer à XIV.


lol you picked up that eh? I'm a philosophy major and sartre is one of my favorites. I really like doing engame content and love doing 5,10m+ content. I just don't want to need a group to level up and farm materials for crafting. It's not that I didn't enjoy xp parties in ffxi, I just didn't enjoy needing them to progress at a decent rate. As long as I can solo efficiently when their aren't any groups available, I'll be very happy. If we can solo at the xp rate that we could in parties in ffxi, plus some added xp incentive for grouping; that would be perfect imo. I think we should be able to cap a class in 2-3 months. I'm sure others will disagree but I don't feel like playing lineage.
Besides post xp requirement reductions in FFXI, you could go from 1-75 in about a month if you had a party for 6-10 hours/day, non astralburn of course. That was just ridiculous and exploited.
____________________________
Hunter Avril
Rogue Ultra
Paladin Awhellnah
Mage Shantotto
Shaman Lakshmi
Faith (Valefor)

#37 Jul 02 2010 at 10:02 PM Rating: Good
***
1,457 posts
Quote:
In terms of personality, the "slightly undergeared to average, but still trying hard" players are usually the most fun to play with.

Next are the "Top gear, top skill, sense of humor"

Next are the "average gear, average skill"

Next are the "Top gear, top skill, srs biznes"

Next are the "slightly above average, but vehemently insistent that anyone with better gear than them has no life"

Next are the "Horrible gear, lack of skill, and God help you if you point out either"


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3CYEWW1-Hg
____________________________
Hunter Avril
Rogue Ultra
Paladin Awhellnah
Mage Shantotto
Shaman Lakshmi
Faith (Valefor)

#38 Jul 02 2010 at 10:04 PM Rating: Decent
Sage
*
205 posts
Ok...the switches in Garlaige do bring back some annoying memories, but in the long run I sort of liked all the group required content in FFXI.

After leaving FFXI and playing a few other MMO's, it really made me appreciate the community that FFXI had. Since it seemed like in other MMO's...people are running around but no one approaches one another. in FFXI it was almost common place to just up and start talking with strangers! things just seemed more...social?

While I do hope they have some good solo content, I'm hoping for some great and exiting group content, even if its not applicable to me. Whats a Blacksmith going to do in a group? I'm assuming my social interactions will be limited to "would you like to buy this?" or "have anything you need repaired?"...or possibly none of that at all since my Retainer might be doing all the selling.

Ok, now I'm sort of hoping for team based crafting.
#39 Jul 02 2010 at 10:58 PM Rating: Good
*****
11,539 posts
SideCH wrote:
Ok, now I'm sort of hoping for team based crafting.


That actually made me think of something awesome.

What if there -was- group based DoH/DoL content? Ore that requires two miners to extract, Foods/Meals that require multiple culinarians to prepare, what if endgame hauberks and plate mail required 3-4 blacksmiths working simultaneously to craft?

I think that would be pretty freaking cool. I mean, if combat classes need to band together with other combat classes to take on tougher combat challenges, why shouldn't the noncombat classes be able to do the same thing?

I think it's genius. I mean, I could see some people complaining about it maybe... but it's genius.
____________________________
[ffxisig]55836[/ffxisig]

Mikhalia: and FWIW, my posts are 95% helpful, informative, or funny.
Mikhalia: only 5% or less of my posts are utter crap.
Tyapex: 393 posts of utter crap...
Mikhalia: Sounds about right.
#40 Jul 03 2010 at 12:37 AM Rating: Good
... you know this is going to be a MMO right?
____________________________
Die! Die die die. die die die die, die die. - Scarlet Briar
#41 Jul 03 2010 at 12:43 AM Rating: Default
*
73 posts
Its called a mmo for a reason, Yeh hopefully the game is more solo friendly then 11 but if you want the best rewards in the game you're going to have to come together and achieve goals with other people,If thats a bad thing in your mind go play solo on the x box or something.
____________________________
BLM-75 NIN 75 WAR 70
Odin
#42 Jul 03 2010 at 12:44 PM Rating: Decent
***
1,457 posts
Quote:
go play solo on the x box or something.


I gave that thing away to my homeless friend.
____________________________
Hunter Avril
Rogue Ultra
Paladin Awhellnah
Mage Shantotto
Shaman Lakshmi
Faith (Valefor)

This forum is read only
This Forum is Read Only!
Recent Visitors: 19 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (19)