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#1 Jul 01 2010 at 11:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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I have been following these forums for a while now but just created an account so that I can participate in the discussions.

So far the class they have announced I have liked. I have played ffxi for 4 years and my favorite class was blm. The closest thing they announced that is closest to that is conjurer. I have one major problem with this class. I think they are trying to combine the whm class and the blm. I am afraid its its gonna be a 50/50 class. If this is true and there is no other DD like a blm then in parties they people would rather use them for healers than as DDs. Now if it was a blm type class with a couple healing spells so it would be able to solo easier. I do think they need to announce a healer type class so that it would give conjurers more options instead of being forced to heal in partys.
What do you guys think of this
#2 Jul 02 2010 at 12:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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First, the thaumaturge is more of a BLM despite some of its abilities than the conjurer. It's the damage powerhouse as described by SE.

Secondly, you can mix and match abilities so I imagine to make some a more traditional BLM you're going to be mixing the more elemental damaging spells from the conjurer with whatever spells the thaumaturge is. Despite the interviewer for the last interview Elmer translated being an idiot he got Tanaka to explain quite explicitly that the whole purpose of the armory system is to mix and match your classes so you can make those classic jobs from FFXI or whatever you want.
#3 Jul 02 2010 at 12:03 AM Rating: Good
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If you've been following the game closely, then you would know that their isn't a "Thief" class anymore either. The entire point as that the jobs are more encompassing, and you can learn things from multiple jobs and combine them into whatever you want. You theoretically don't even have to learn curative magic and instead focus on damage dealing spells. I'm sure for grouping purposes there will be a way to list what you "specialize" in (tanking, healing, DPS, support, etc.)

Think of it in terms of WoW if you've ever played that: a Druid can heal, tank, or DPS, but he can't do all equally as one spec. I imagine FFXIV will work out similarly to this. You will pick a specialization, and you can seek party invites while letting everyone know what your skills are.
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#4 Jul 02 2010 at 12:43 AM Rating: Good
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Well.
Your concerns are justified in the sense that your assessment of MMO populations is pretty spot on. If you can Cure, it's likely other people will want you to, even if that's not what you want to do. However, there's a few things that will ameliorate this pressure some.

Everybody's can - and will - heal to some degree.
I mean this in the obvious "Each job has a skill used to heal itself (and it's actually pretty good)" way, in the less obvious "Everybody will have a solo build so you know they'll have enough things in their bag of tricks to sustain themselves" way, and in the much less obvious "You'll likely be bumping up your HP yourself because Guildleves sometimes make you hoof it between battles and the speed at which TP evaporates means you actually have incentive to use HP Regen Mode"

The power of Solo Play Alternatives.
I don't mean that 'you can always solo and play the way you want' nonsense. Systems that offer solo alternatives in conjunction with party play tends to create environments where you have enough leverage for people to actually care about your opinion. Most people are upstanding folks who wouldn't try to use peer pressure to manipulate you into doing something you don't want to...when they're aware they don't really have solid ground to stand on. The atmosphere of 'the community' strong-arming classes into healing in XI was a combination of class design, extreme need, and extreme leverage against you your unlikely to see repeated again.

That said, to say it'll be a land of happy shiny people holding hands would be disingenuous.
Tanks and healers are always considered more valuable, and will have the same invite priority they always do. Endgame in particular tends to value those branches of the holy trinity very much. You will certainly be more popular as a Healer. But, the likelihood it'll impede your progress in any noteworthy way is slim to nil.





Edited, Jul 2nd 2010 2:49am by Zemzelette
#5 Jul 02 2010 at 9:53 AM Rating: Good
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I'm thinking Thaumaturge is where I'm headed at this point. I was primarily a BLM and RDM at the end of ffxi.

I like them for solo ability. Now keep in mind there are two drastically different definitions of soloing. There is the kind of soloing that gets you experience points and there is the kind of soloing that will allow you to take down a single mob much stronger than yourself. I prefer the latter. There was nothing more exciting and challenging in FFXI than taking on Despot, Ulli, Gration, etc by yourself - when just a weke earlier you were fighting those same mobs with alliances.

That said, what I am looking for is a job that has the equivalent of gravity, bind, sleep, slow, DoT magic....

Now SE might be compelled to not recreate a RDM type fo job that was failry proficient at soloing high level stuff. However, I would be saddened if that is the case. I see no harm in making a class that can do these things - because even in FFXI very few people took the time to polish their skills enough to be able to pull this off regularly - so its not like the servers would be infested with people soloing NMs or whatever.

Thaumaturge apparently has the Gravit spell and Drain... thats a solid start considering gravity was proably the most critical spell in the RDM's aresenal (though Bind was probably equally as critical). The only thing that gives me pause is that I see Conjurer has some elemntal DoT spells. If Thmt does not get a DoT spell soloing will be tough no matter how easily you can immobilize the mob. For the record, I was never a fan of the sleep/nuke/rest strategy.
#6 Jul 02 2010 at 9:57 AM Rating: Decent
Mithsavvy wrote:
I'm thinking Thaumaturge is where I'm headed at this point. I was primarily a BLM and RDM at the end of ffxi.

I like them for solo ability. Now keep in mind there are two drastically different definitions of soloing. There is the kind of soloing that gets you experience points and there is the kind of soloing that will allow you to take down a single mob much stronger than yourself. I prefer the latter. There was nothing more exciting and challenging in FFXI than taking on Despot, Ulli, Gration, etc by yourself - when just a weke earlier you were fighting those same mobs with alliances.

That said, what I am looking for is a job that has the equivalent of gravity, bind, sleep, slow, DoT magic....

Now SE might be compelled to not recreate a RDM type fo job that was failry proficient at soloing high level stuff. However, I would be saddened if that is the case. I see no harm in making a class that can do these things - because even in FFXI very few people took the time to polish their skills enough to be able to pull this off regularly - so its not like the servers would be infested with people soloing NMs or whatever.

Thaumaturge apparently has the Gravit spell and Drain... thats a solid start considering gravity was proably the most critical spell in the RDM's aresenal (though Bind was probably equally as critical). The only thing that gives me pause is that I see Conjurer has some elemntal DoT spells. If Thmt does not get a DoT spell soloing will be tough no matter how easily you can immobilize the mob. For the record, I was never a fan of the sleep/nuke/rest strategy.


YOu mix and match abilities in XIV. If you want Conjurer abilities on your Thaumaturge, you level a Conjurer until you get them and then use them on your Thaumaturge.

And the "true" healing class for XIV hasn't been in the testing up to this point. Conjurer and Thaumaturge both have healing abilities, but neither of them are what you'd look upon as a main healer.
#7 Jul 02 2010 at 9:59 AM Rating: Decent
12 posts
I always thought that thaumaturge was more like a bard because on the official website all of its skills are buffing and debuffing. I do understand what you say about druids being healers though. I do think they need to announce more disciple of magic classes and a class that specializes in healing at that.
#8 Jul 02 2010 at 11:01 AM Rating: Decent
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Like other posters have said above, there a few factors at play that will really make the whole "WHM onry!" aspect a bit obsolete:

1. HP Regen when in passive mode. For anyone who watched an alpha video, its a pretty beefy Regen. This means that unless you are stringing together chains of mobs (somewhat unlikely due to the Guildleve system now for levelling), people will be able to naturally restore hp to full.

2. Aetheryte Crystals. They're all over, and provide HP/MP restoration. I don't know if these will have cooldown timers (It'd be a bit broken if they didn't), but they help for total party restoration.

3. Many jobs have healing abilities. Gladiator, Marauder, Pugilist, and Lancers have HP restorative abilities. Gladiators get a defensive shield ability that recovers HP; Marauders get a powerful strike that converts damage to HP; Pugilists get Chakra; and Lancers basically get Drain samba (on hit, drain hp), iirc.

All this should prevent ANY class from being pigeonholed into one role only, at least compared to what happened in FFXI. It should be more like WoW in terms of class flexibility.

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#9 Jul 02 2010 at 11:46 AM Rating: Good
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This mixing and matching stuff sounds pretty slick. However, it does beg the obvious question: Is it reversible? In other words, if I customize a character to be a good HNM soloer... can I "reverse" (so to speak) my customization and go a different direction later on.

I guess kind of how FFXI handled merits, where you basically chose your merit categories based on the style of play you preferred. In order to reverse them you pretty much had to go through a ton of grinding again and redo them all. I suppose I'm fine with that since I don't like anything being too easy.

I'd just like to have as much info as possible so that I don't have to waste too much valuable game time deciding which direction I want to head. I can already tell that I wil waste my entire first night deciding on my character name and appearance....
#10 Jul 02 2010 at 12:36 PM Rating: Decent
Mithsavvy wrote:
This mixing and matching stuff sounds pretty slick. However, it does beg the obvious question: Is it reversible? In other words, if I customize a character to be a good HNM soloer... can I "reverse" (so to speak) my customization and go a different direction later on.


Yes. You just have to move abilities around on your action bars to make use of them.
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