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physical level and starting a new classFollow

#1 Jul 01 2010 at 11:30 PM Rating: Good
12 posts
I have been reading the other thread about physical level and it brought up a question for me. How does physical level effect a class you havent played yet? Lets say I am a level 50 lancer and level 50 physical level. I want to start playing archer and I am level 1 in that. So does that mean that even though i am a level 1 archer that can do insane damage because I am level 50 physical and just do crappy skills. That would mean we would never be able to start a new class from the beginning because you would be uber strong and if you are running a party would you rather have a uber strong archer that is at your level or a person that has just started, so not uber strong. This would give a major disadvantage to already disadvantaged newcomers.

Thats why I think that each weapon class level will have a maximum physical level the same way they had max weapon skills for each class level in FFXI. This would fix the uber strong part because they would only be a little stronger but the main problem would be that you would raise that level all the way once and thats it. So after a while it becomes pointless.

Edit: fixed

Edited, Jul 2nd 2010 11:37am by kiddster58
#2 Jul 02 2010 at 12:43 AM Rating: Excellent
205 posts
Lets say I am a level 50 archer and level 50 physical level. I want to start playing archer and I am level 1 in that

You might want to fix that sentence before someone impolitly point it out for you.
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#3 Jul 02 2010 at 7:02 AM Rating: Decent
295 posts
Physical Level gives you stats. Job level gives you proficiency and skills.

In other words, same thing as weapon proficiency's in ffxi in essence, except that you have an actual level meter to measure how much time between skill levels.

Also, physical level gives you so many points to put into stats, the stats are not static after being assigned iirc.
#4 Jul 02 2010 at 7:04 AM Rating: Decent
3,416 posts
Stats don't matter as much as gear does.

And gear is limited by your skill rank.

So you'll gain a bonus for having high physical level but nothing substantial.
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#5 Jul 02 2010 at 8:25 AM Rating: Good
1,707 posts
So you could basically run through high level areas maybe without getting "aggro" or getting "one-shotted" - but you would not have the skills to quickly dispose of any mobs in those zones?? Unless gear stats truly are that important and you will get one shotted just due to having low-level armor on.... despite high HP and high "base defense"?

#6 Jul 02 2010 at 9:49 AM Rating: Good
12 posts
Your might be right that gear stats might be more useful than the physical level but if if you can allocate 50 levels of stats to a level one class and that would not give you a major advantage then how important would they be at level 50 jobs. If that is true what is the point of them. Because each extra character is an additional 3 bucks that usually means we only need 1 character for all the jobs. But if you can allocate all 50 physical levels to a level 1 class and it makes a noticeable difference then you can never truly start over a new class because you would never go back to the lower level areas because you do not have to.
#7 Jul 02 2010 at 10:24 PM Rating: Decent
205 posts
hmmm that is an interesting question. One of the things SE stated was now HP and MP would be tied to class rank and not physical level. I wonder how huge of an impact physical level will make...

We also don't know how 'fast' you gain physical levels. It might be much much much slower then getting class rank and that might have some way of balancing it. Thats just my speculation though.
#8 Jul 04 2010 at 7:35 AM Rating: Good
224 posts
I have a theory. I'm thinking along the lines of FFXI's weapon skill system with a twist.

How easy it is to hit a mob depends on your skill with that weapon, so even with a high physical level you would have to spend time in lower level areas. You wouldn't be able to take on high level mobs with low level weapon skills.

I was wondering if there might be a cap on physical level stats based on weapon skill. i.e. level 50 physical but sword skill 10 would make physical level stats cap how many points were available at level 10.

Someone said the points are not frozen after distribution. I took that to mean we can redistribute them as we see fit. Capping stat points to match weapon skill level would be just fine then.
#9 Jul 04 2010 at 9:11 AM Rating: Decent
1,842 posts
What I'm wondering if SE is going to have an option to respec. If a person is a level 50 Marauder they will most likely have alot of stats in STR but if they chose to play Conjurer won't need alot of STR.
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#10 Jul 04 2010 at 9:16 AM Rating: Excellent
198 posts
What I'm wondering if SE is going to have an option to respec. If a person is a level 50 Marauder they will most likely have alot of stats in STR but if they chose to play Conjurer won't need alot of STR.

As for character growth, it appears there are Skill Ranks for each Class and Physical Levels for the avatar itself. Physical Levels are where you can freely spend points on different parameters, right?

Komoto: In the alpha, there is a cap on Physical Levels, and you can't redistribute points already spent on parameters just yet. Later on, we want to allow players to reallocate points in case they focus too heavily on a certain attribute and want to adjust that. We also plan to make it so you cannot simply max out every attribute, so players will have to work to find a good balance. For example, you may raise a certain skill in order to play a Warrior-type class. If you later want to go as a Disciple of Magic, you can then reallocate those points into something more beneficial for a magic-user.

#11 Jul 05 2010 at 1:16 PM Rating: Good
108 posts
It's possible your physical level will be capped at your job level, but that would make the entire system unnecessary. Silly, even.

More likely your stats will stay at level 50, and your skills will be crap. You'll be much better able to handle a level 1 crab as 1PUG/50 (or whatever notation arises) than 1PUG/1, but don't try going after a level 25 crab. You'll never hit it and never evade. High physical level on a low level job will probably only make a difference of a few levels anyway when compared to a person with equal physical and job levels. Mister 1PUG/50 can probably kill a level 5 crab.

Either that, or physical level will be far more important, and you only level up jobs to get their skills. This is just as likely, given SE's promise to make FFXIV less hardcore. So in this case Mr. 1PUG/50 goes and tanks a level 30 crab while increasing his H2H skill enough to start hitting it, then goes on a killing spree getting capped EXP per kill. It's kind of like a 50NIN deciding he wants to level daggers, so he goes to Yhoator and lays into a mandragora for a few hours. He'll be fine, but it could take a while before he starts hitting. For you WoW folks, imagine your Paladin leveled 1-80 on 2H Maces, and now you want to level 1H swords to tank. You go to Dun Niffelem and just start attacking stuff. Eventually you'll end up with 399 skill, then you just have to kill stuff for a few more days to get that last point (I kid, but you know that last point sucks).

I'm sure SE has thought of each idea and more, and has something left to reveal about the system.
#12 Jul 05 2010 at 2:59 PM Rating: Good
hrmmm... very interesting thread. Maybe, you dont get stronger, you dont get more hp but you DO get skill in evasion... skill in parry etc. That would be more realistic anyways. if you have a high constitution you would always have high hp no matter what your skill level with a sword is or with a wand is.

your skill with a lance would augment your skill to parry with a lance. your skill to evade would scale with your certain proficiency wearing armor but you would have higher evasion with cloth as opposed to plate. SE might be onto something here maybe?

Only time will tell, a few short months.

#13 Jul 05 2010 at 3:21 PM Rating: Decent
322 posts
"The "Physical Bonus" system, which affects HP/MP, stats and elemental affinities, has been changed. Now, HP/MP rise automatically along with the player's level and only stats are customizable. Also, the list of stats has been adjusted from 8 to 6. Elemental affinities have been separated and will now require the use of "Elemental Bonus" points to increase."

HP/MP scale with physical level, not class rank.

For the person who stated otherwise.
#14 Jul 05 2010 at 3:51 PM Rating: Decent
12 posts
So if the hp and mp are tied to the physical level the each class level would have a capped physical level because a level 50 Physical level one a level one class might not hit a level 20 mob but the level 20 mob would still have a hard time with going through 50 levels of Hp. I would think a level 20 mob would one shot a level one class no matter how high the persons physical because here is the way I am looking at it they have to have a way to make it like starting a new class is like starting a brand new character or otherwise why have only one character per account.
#15 Jul 05 2010 at 4:04 PM Rating: Default
322 posts
I recall them saying something along the lines of hey, your group needs a healer and none are around, but you're carrying around your trusty wand, and although you are a bit underleveled, you switch and heal them no problem!

Physical level goes up about 1/3 as quick as Class level, from screenshots. It's sort of a perk of leveling a lot, you can level easier afterwards.
#16 Jul 05 2010 at 4:22 PM Rating: Decent
456 posts
Its easy they just will probably make your physical level capped by your rank level. For example you might have your physical level capped but when you change classes to a brand new class it will probably go back down and be capped. Your physical level will probably only get to be a certain amount of levels above your class rank level before it becomes capped until you rank your class up. Kind of like if you skilled your sword to max on paladin (in FFXI), and then you changed your job to lvl 1 red mage and used a sword. Your sword will still be max level but it will also be capped to a certain number, which only was able to raise once that job leveled up.

Plus as one said your gear is more important than stats, and rank level is the requirement on gear.
#17 Jul 06 2010 at 3:54 PM Rating: Good
51 posts
I wonder if how they will handle starting a new class will work something like this:
Lets say you are a lvl 50 archer and want to play a caster class. Right now we all wonder how our phys level stat distribution will affect that.

So lets assume that ffxiv will upon switching roles store what changes you made to that role previously. So for example in ffxi you would auto equip gear when switching jobs at the mog house, just apply that now to your stat points that you distributed.
So now when you switch to your lvl 1 mage your stats are the same as any other lvl 1 mage. You still have a phys level but you dont have the points available to use. Now when your level up to rank 2 mage you gain lets say three points to allocate all over again just like you got when you ranked up to a level 2 archer.

Now at this point I will add in the idea that SE wants to make leveling a little less grindy when taking on new disciplines. So as you leveled up your archer your exp points were divided, and for the sake of simplicity lets say if a mob gives 200 exp points 100 go to your phys level and 100 go to your class level(I know some data has been shown its not half and half). However since your phys level on your new mage is maxed out already you can no longer gain exp towards your phys level, so now instead of 50/50 all 200 exp go straight into your class level. This would make leveling new jobs for the skills and fun of them much faster. At some point the mobs you are fighting will be high enough level that you start gaining phys level points again and progress further on both paths again.

If they do something like this it would alleviate the need to reallocate stat points later on in the game when you want to change from a caster to physical dmg class or vice versa and would make leveling again much quicker allowing you to get back to your main with new shiny skills much faster and continue enjoying the game. Also there would be no large stat advantage for returning players to the starting zones on new classes allowing for a even playing field, because im sure if phys level plays a factor in low level areas newbies will get kicked to the curb in a heart beat compared to those with large stat bonuses due to it being a new go around on a diff class.
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